Why it is forbidden to publicly discuss moderation.

[semyonkirov 29,038]

Dear players.

We've noted that quite a lot of you express concerns regarding the fact that it is forbidden to publicly discuss moderation (2.18. - public discussion of moderation as well as Administration' activities).

We try to choose only the best members of our community to become moderators. And we are not denying that even they make mistakes sometimes. However, there is a good reason why this rule was introduced in the first place, why it exists now and will always be.

First, if it was allowed, it would inevitably lead to conflicts between players and moderators, as banned people almost never agree on the reason of the ban and the ban period.

Secondly, there is another rule that prevents public discussion from being allowed. Proofs of bans (which every moderator is obliged to attach to the ban itself: screenshot or video) are not shown in public, it can only be shown to the banned person.

All of this would provoke inadequate response from banned players, causing even more bans, as the overwhelming majority of these discussions would end up with people getting angry, starting trolling, etc. By that, it would only make the situation worse for both players and moderators.

More importantly, it would not help the situation. The best way to do that is to contact an administrator or a community manager. You can always express your dissatisfaction regarding the ban you got or behavior of a moderator. This is the only way to do that, and the best of ones we can think of, as it helps to solve the problem as fast as possible.

As compromise, everyone can PM me if he/she is unhappy with a moderator (please call your message Moderation Feedback, I will check my personal messenger daily for them). Also, you can post your feedback on the special site, which is checked by me regularly.

[Ilia.ArchangeI 6,785]

I personally agree with all the rules, and have never had issues with Moderation.

[Lhamster 4,081]

I concur. If you guys want to say anything about me or my moderation, or things in general about the mods, you can PM me as well, I will listen to you, and we can try to find a solution to whatever it is.

[semyonkirov 29,038]

i PMed you lots but never an answer why?

I'm sorry for that. Unfortunately I get tons of PMs every day. But calling your message Moderation Feedback you will make it easier for me, I will give priority to these messages. 

[datie9 72]

Hope this stops the forum thread spam :)

[AngeIs.And.Demons 1,988]

LOL dude people like yele, Semyon and hammy get ALOT of P.M's. I mean I used to get 50+ P.M's as a team Co-Leader so..

Edited September 9, 2013 by haider15905

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

The issue is not with discussing moderators... but their general decisions.

 

Hypothetical situation: If 5 different moderators lock a single thread and another thread is made explaining that the moderators' decisions were not "just", the new thread's creator "will" get banned.

 

Let us ask "Why are profane abbreviations against the rules?" without getting banned and let us have what the first internet forum was invented for... let us have discussions. At the moment, if a moderator disagrees with a post he can close it and if anyone else talks about his decision he can just ban them... A forum moderator is different from a chat moderator and Tanki doesn't respect that fact. I've moderated several forums and Tanki's was the only one where if a moderator dislikes a topic then instead of discussing and giving his opinion about the topic he can just close it and link to the Feedback site saying "All ideas go there"

 

No one cares where Ideas go, if a person is posting a thread on a forum he wants to discuss his idea with the community, you can't do that on the feedback site.

[datie9 72]

You made me change my mind kool.. :O

[BakedCake 31]

I like that we are not allowed to discuss moderator's actions and bans.

 

Lots of people think that more than 80% of bans they got they didn't diserve (I understand that nobody wants to get a ban but they must realise that if they follow the rules they won't be banned)

[D7D7 28]

There is bad staff still yet you haven't discovered them how i know cause someone deleting my harmless forum posts and i don't like it maybe cause it will be in the new newspaper i guess...that happened to me i'm not suprised if i find my posts in the next newspaper issue ....


"It not what you see it what they want you to see but they see what you do not see"

Edited September 9, 2013 by D7D7

[CooperO 7,956]

I'd like to start by saying thanks for making this topic and explaining some things.
However, you are only referring to people that are banned and think the moderator was incorrect or something like that. That is of course one part of discussing moderators.
The other side is people who aren't angry over a ban because they didn't get banned, but people who just form their opinion on moderators, saying for example: Wasn't it better to give a warning instead of a ban? Or: Wasn't it better to explain some rules to that player first?
I don't think you are waiting for a pm from players saying: Lhamster banned someone for saying hhhhh, but I think he should have given him a warning first. (example) Because such things depend on the situation most of the time.
One advantage (in my opinion) of discussing what moderators or other staff members do or don't do is that other people can see they aren't the only ones thinking about it that way, moderators see the feedback and might think by themselves 'hmm if I do this or that next time I will improve my moderating and more people will be satisfied'.
By discussing staff openly we know everyone will read it, if we send a pm it could for all we know just be ignored.
I also think people will be dissatisfied with a ban anyway whether they can or can't discuss it for everyone to see, but would it be so wrong for a moderator to explain why he banned someone if a player asks (politely) in public? It gets different of course if that player demands an answer, or uses inappropriate language. I think it isn't and shouldn't be this black and white, like I said before it can depend on the situation.
This might make things a little more complicated for moderators, but being a moderator doesn't have to be easy.  
One last note: Lhamster, thanks for being open to suggestions and criticism.

[datie9 72]

Let me quote something an old friend said to me 2 years ago:

 

'All staff-members know the rules, they are the best staff you can get. Only, there's one type that's better than all those others; the ones who know the exceptions'

Edited September 9, 2013 by datie9

[already.dead 360]

Most of my big bans, especially on my old account, i feel were ''unfair''. BUT pm'ing a mod doensnt help ANYTHING for me, as i never get an answer, by PM, by chat or anything. mods BARELY answer cuz they're ''busy''.

[semyonkirov 29,038]

The issue is not with discussing moderators... but their general decisions.

 

Hypothetical situation: If 5 different moderators lock a single thread and another thread is made explaining that the moderators' decisions were not "just", the new thread's creator "will" get banned.

 

Let us ask "Why are profane abbreviations against the rules?" without getting banned and let us have what the first internet forum was invented for... let us have discussions. At the moment, if a moderator disagrees with a post he can close it and if anyone else talks about his decision he can just ban them... A forum moderator is different from a chat moderator and Tanki doesn't respect that fact. I've moderated several forums and Tanki's was the only one where if a moderator dislikes a topic then instead of discussing and giving his opinion about the topic he can just close it and link to the Feedback site saying "All ideas go there"

 

No one cares where Ideas go, if a person is posting a thread on a forum he wants to discuss his idea with the community, you can't do that on the feedback site.

As for the first example, why just not write to me or yele saying that the topic was locked without a reason. It will help. Actually locking topics when it is not necessary is a problem we are aware of. Of course opinions of the topic starter and those who take part in discussing it and opinion of the moderator that closed it may differ. We are aware of this and will ask mods not to close topics if it's unnecessary.

Asking questions about the rules is ok. A moderator can't close post if he or she disagrees with it. Moderators are supposed to close topics when it is necessary, that's how I see it and that's how it should be and will be.

Finally, discussions of ideas are allowed now, many players discuss ideas before posting them on Feedback. That's actually nice to see how the idea is developped by players together and then something truly useful comes up on the feedback site.

So, almost nothing of what  you said gets banned. And if it gets, well, then we need to change it and we will.

 

I'd like to start by saying thanks for making this topic and explaining some things.

However, you are only referring to people that are banned and think the moderator was incorrect or something like that. That is of course one part of discussing moderators.

The other side is people who aren't angry over a ban because they didn't get banned, but people who just form their opinion on moderators, saying for example: Wasn't it better to give a warning instead of a ban? Or: Wasn't it better to explain some rules to that player first?

I don't think you are waiting for a pm from players saying: Lhamster banned someone for saying hhhhh, but I think he should have given him a warning first. (example) Because such things depend on the situation most of the time.

One advantage (in my opinion) of discussing what moderators or other staff members do or don't do is that other people can see they aren't the only ones thinking about it that way, moderators see the feedback and might think by themselves 'hmm if I do this or that next time I will improve my moderating and more people will be satisfied'.

By discussing staff openly we know everyone will read it, if we send a pm it could for all we know just be ignored.

I also think people will be dissatisfied with a ban anyway whether they can or can't discuss it for everyone to see, but would it be so wrong for a moderator to explain why he banned someone if a player asks (politely) in public? It gets different of course if that player demands an answer, or uses inappropriate language. I think it isn't and shouldn't be this black and white, like I said before it can depend on the situation.

This might make things a little more complicated for moderators, but being a moderator doesn't have to be easy.  

One last note: Lhamster, thanks for being open to suggestions and criticism.

It all makes sense, but I don't see a point in that. Moderators follow the rules, as well as their code which has been formed for years. 

This is how this forum lives. There is no point in comparing it to other forums, because it is not like others. It is how it's always been and it will, every rule was thought over and is there for a reason. 

Making public duscussions will not improve the quality of moderation, most players will just abuse it and start complaining. This will not help, it will just create more negative emotions for both players and moderators.

Perhaps it's a good idea but our community is not ready for that. Not yet.

[semyonkirov 29,038]

Most of my big bans, especially on my old account, i feel were ''unfair''. BUT pm'ing a mod doensnt help ANYTHING for me, as i never get an answer, by PM, by chat or anything. mods BARELY answer cuz they're ''busy''.

You need to PM an admin, not a mod. Perhaps this will not remove your ban but it will certainly be noted and passed to moderators. This is how it's always been.

[datie9 72]

I'm sorry to tell, I've been on this forums for over 2 years now.. It has not always been like that.

What already.dead is saying, WAS a big problem months ago, not because moderators were lazy, they just WERE busy. There WERE (It has all been restored in my opinion now) just not enough people to handle everything the community was asking from them. 

 

Anyways, this discussion is really helpful for me, to understand everything again :).

[Lankbouv 6,347]

Same for me, whenever I've PMed a mod, I've got no reply.

[r_WalkingDead1230 23]

We try to choose only the best members of our community to become moderators. 

Then you failed.

[D7D7 28]

Then you failed.

Still there is a few good ones but mostly inactive or don't want bother doing the job "Cleanse will be good idea every few months"

[datie9 72]

Then you failed.

I totally do not agree with that.

 

May I ask you to give arguments instead of just saying 'the moderators are not doing their job the way they have to'?

[GoldRock2 290]

Player GoldRock2 has been banned for a week. Reason: Violation of forum rules. Trolling/flaming.Rules

[datie9 72]

That's what I thought aswell :P

 

 

It's a trap and they want to ban us all xD

 

[GoldRock2 290]

Player GoldRock2 has been banned for a week. Reason: Violation of forum rules. Trolling/flaming.Rules

[datie9 72]

I know them very well too, most of them are my old friends, aswell as most of the consultants too.

 

It was just a random thought that came up in my mind.

 

-This line is deleted, to prevent further discommunication-

Edited September 9, 2013 by datie9

[GoldRock2 290]

Player GoldRock2 has been banned for a week. Reason: Violation of forum rules. Trolling/flaming.Rules