Reduce power of garage supplies

[creeperskelly 1,281]

This is why the current way of thinking is a failure:

 

[Opex-Rah 5,382]

Okay, I want to say my suggestion back.

 

Remove heal supply and refund that

Make daily missions drug rewards too low.

Reduce drops.

Make non-buyers lack of DP and DA, make buyers with DP and DA.

Then, keep equipment discounts %25 for next 6 months. ( I mean: if you want to make a discount, don't make it %50)

So, what the players got because of refund will go to equipments and they will start to buy again.

Why not?

That will make players angry for a short time(just like after every update), but then they will feel a lot better.

 

• Remove heal supply and refund that — not going to happen.
• Make daily missions drug rewards too low — I said we want supplies to be widespread, not limited.
• Reduce drops — same here.
• Make non-buyers lack of DP and DA, make buyers with DP and DA — same here.
• Then, keep equipment discounts %25 for next 6 months — this shouldn't be a balancing tool.

I have seen all of suggestions, I said there was only one most likely to happen.

[T.O.T.A.L.W.A.R 581]

You will see Unity in less than a year regardless of this discussion.

Less than a year!!!!!!!! dayum, so all the rumors of unity being released in august is wrong!!!! , u stopped leaking

Stuff to us hazel , 

 

[Opex-Rah 5,382]

I think you should keep silent, at least th,s doesn't escelate the discuss. 

Lolwut. They keep saying there are no developers to discuss an issue and when developer do come by to show why this is not going to work they ask him to keep silent and not escalate the discussion.

 

Be that way, if you wish. I am not going to discuss it anymore.

[racer22_online 206]

Hazel-Rah is the only helper willing to read what we write.  We should support him even if we don't don't agree with his points of view.

 

I would like to know hazel-rah's views on the massive imbalance we see in most battles - particularly at higher ranks and what should be done about it?

 

Surely he agrees that reasonably balanced close fought battles are the best and we just want more of those - Tanki can be the best sport on the planet with a few sensible tweaks.

 

When we witness reduced garage drug use - this mostly coincides with the closest battles - i.e. this is the whole point of this thread.

Just 2 or 3 druggers on one side is enough to throw the balance - and we might as well all go home.  For sportsmen it's no good being on the winning side if it's too easy and no good getting 'pasted' on the losing side.

 

A bit like having a football game with 13 on one side and 10 on the other - the game becomes a joke and is boring to watch.

 

As I predicted look at the hardstyle games - with unlimited  garage drugs - nearly all (over 90%) are one sided '3 or 2 ' to '0' scores.  This is because the best garage drug users end up 'owning' the drop zones and this tips the balance very quickly = easy win.  No sport in that.

 

You will note the star series battles do not allow any garage drugs and more of these are better balanced than the hardstyle ones.

 

 

and to confirm we are NOT asking for garage drugs to be removed from Standard Mode - we accept this is part of the standard game - we just want to stop the 'abuse' of these garage drugs by people who have no concern for SPENDING more crystals in a game than they EARN = economic madness and ruins the balance.

[Brubook 1,161]

You will see Unity in less than a year regardless of this discussion.

 

Your 90 pages of 'several months problem' is, in reality, a 6 years problem. I told you supplies are with this game almost from the beginning.

 

Most likely change could be the lowering of supplies power down to 150%. I tried it, it wasn't good. We had discussed it with other game designers and made decision not to change it.

 

When I was last time around here I asked why you do not calculate what will happen if you lower supplies power. You prefer to feed me with everything you had been discussing here, as if I had no idea what was it. Lowering supplies power even to x1.5 will make supplies useless for many turrets due to same number of shots it will need to land on enemy tank. If there is no difference, there will be no supplies.

 

Your goal in this discussion is to make supplies as harmless as possible, while we aim to make them as widespread as possible. Aside from monetization, SCD'ed supplies makes battle tactics shift everytime someone using any supply. This adds more layers to the gameplay. While your goal will be to cut this additional layers out of the game, your suggestions will stay unanswered.

 

I don't think it is a soo severe problem from 6 years. I don't actually know about 6 years ago, but 1 year ago the problem was not soo bad. Druggers were not frequent and xmas tree tanks were exceptional.

 

From what I read you are saying that you want drugs to make ALL turret one-dead-shot (or a second dead shot). If you refer to this as "difference", that is really the wrong direction.

 

Drugs should give "some" help, and for some help I mean a percentage more than the normal weapon. If you rise a 100% (making it a x2) as it is now, you just have a devastation machine that destroy everything on field. Do you really consider this a "little help"?

 

As I said before, on this line of thought, why don't you make a x10 special drug worth 1.000crystals!? You can destroy the whole field in 1 shot! Is that helpy enough?

 

The goal in this discussion is to have balanced battles. A +-25-30% in parameters, considering skills and teamplay, can be handled; more would be a safe victory.

Lowering to x1.5 will not make supply useless (well, only if for "useful" you mean one-shot kills), and it will reduce shooting of 33,3%, not same shots number (or time) needed. I don't think a 150 damages shot is the same as a 100 damages shot ... do you?

With the actual drugs power you create godmode_ON players!

Someone said "go on the druggers side" but I don't consider it enjoying ... the spectator is a role I play when watching TV, not when I play Tanki!

 

 

Tell me one thing: would you play ANY battle/game/competition being sure you will loose it?

 

In Tanki now, if 2 druggers enter a team of 8, you are sure that team wins (if they are not completely mults). So you play a game, put your effort and strategy ... but you know that if a percentage of opponents start pressing number, you are finished! Half an hour (or more) of strategy gone to the dogs in few seconds!

An SCD note: it was a good idea in theory; in practice druggers know the few seconds delay, maybe they take 1 drop, and they have the full xmas tree anyway. Some more seconds and they press 1 on the flag and that is it! Also, with SCD, defense cannot reply appropriately to drugged attack, so defense blow up anyway!

 

 

Calculation: I did not calculate specific energy for any drug increase possible solution, but I think anyone can do that too!

 

A note on Unity: you said we will see it in less than 1 year regardless this discussion. I think you should think about this discussion when designing Unity mechanics.

 

 

A question: why do you waste your time (and all devs time) on balancing hulls and turrets, when if you just press a number all that balance go to the dogs?

 

 

Anyway I don't think I will change your mind, not even a little bit. Also, you probably will not have much problems with me for long, so you probably shouldn't take care of me!

Still your problem will be that there are many "me" around ... and the "me" are the ones who keep this game alive! Let's remember that many "me" already left the game!

[Brubook 1,161]

Dear Hazel-Rah

On the silence thing, I think he meant that you should avoid making fool of us, limiting to the issue your contribution to discussion. After all the effort many of us are putting on this matter, someone could find that fooling offensive, as probably kayitsiz did.

Apart from that, discussion is welcome.

[Brubook 1,161]

I have seen all of suggestions, I said there was only one most likely to happen.

 

Also please read this creeperskelly post (#1780):

 

http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=246957&page=89&do=findComment&comment=4805588

 

She explained very well what we proposed as "side effect" or "cons" when using a specific drug. This is one of this discussion ideas!

[Brubook 1,161]

TANKI V-LOG

 

Another proof of Tanki shortsight and another proof of what we are saying throughout this discussion:

 

NO strategy, NO teamplay, NO skills ... the only thing that matter in Tanki is DRUGS USAGE!

 

The only thing a newbie has to know is how and when to press 1-2-3-4 numbers on keyboard

 

...

 

- Is there a graphics assistance needed on that?

- Should Tanki make some video showing how a finger can gently but fastly and firmly press a number between 1 to 4?

- Should a discussion be opened on which finger is better for any of the four Tanki main features?

- Should be given a length measurer dime to all Tanki players?

- Should be given an appropriate nail care training for players left hand (if they use left one)?

- Should be studied a good left-hand wrist training on the magic numbers?

- Should be written a manual on delay seconds of any magic number and its cross-relation to any of them?

 

These issues should be unfolded and investigated!

 

OMG

 

Total lack of customer care, blindness and ostrich behaviour!

 

One of the worst "Another sad day in Tanki"

[Legolover3 91]

You will see Unity in less than a year regardless of this discussion.

 

Your 90 pages of 'several months problem' is, in reality, a 6 years problem. I told you supplies are with this game almost from the beginning.

 

Most likely change could be the lowering of supplies power down to 150%. I tried it, it wasn't good. We had discussed it with other game designers and made decision not to change it.

 

When I was last time around here I asked why you do not calculate what will happen if you lower supplies power. You prefer to feed me with everything you had been discussing here, as if I had no idea what was it. Lowering supplies power even to x1.5 will make supplies useless for many turrets due to same number of shots it will need to land on enemy tank. If there is no difference, there will be no supplies.

 

Your goal in this discussion is to make supplies as harmless as possible, while we aim to make them as widespread as possible. Aside from monetization, SCD'ed supplies makes battle tactics shift everytime someone using any supply. This adds more layers to the gameplay. While your goal will be to cut this additional layers out of the game, your suggestions will stay unanswered.

1. Brubook's use of "Unity in 25 years" was to demonstrate the fact that player feedback (no matter how emphatic or widespread) hasn't a prayer of influencing this game in a significant way.

2. Just because supplies "were always here" isn't a valid reason to sustain their use. That is the "appeal to tradition" fallacy.

3. Um....how exactly was 150% a bad idea? The way double power works is at 200% power. 150% doesn't change the mechanic/mechanism of delivering the supply, only the quantitative element. So 150% would just be a slightly weakened version of the current drug. Explain how it's a "bad idea."

4. "Your goal in this discussion is to make supplies as harmless as possible..." Um, no. Our goal is to bring balance to this game, which has been crippled by certain elements. Namely, supplies. Weakening the power of supplies (such as cooldowns etc, not necessarily killing the supply per se) is a means to the end of a better Tanki.

Happy players, happy devs, cash machine. Good for all!

Now, the only question we need to ask is:

WHY isn't more than one (thanks Hazel) person in power listening?

[creeperskelly 1,281]

 

 

A bit like having a football game with 13 on one side and 10 on the other - the game becomes a joke and is boring to watch.

 

The irony is that if a player is on the winning team the number of crystals earned is also usually very low due to the effect of the druggers - due to the higher score from drugging the druggers usually get the most crystals, and, as the other team leaves the battle fund stops growing. A player on the "winning" team who caps a flag at that point gets almost no score in such a situation because of few players on the other team staying - thus remaining on the winning team at that point makes as little sense as remaining on the losing team.

 

So the druggers ruin the experience for both winning and losing players. It really is no fun shooting fish in a barrel and when I see the "winning" team behaving in such a way it aggravates and embarrasses me to be on the winning team.

 

 

 

She explained very well what we proposed as "side effect" or "cons" when using a specific drug. This is one of this discussion ideas!

 

I'm actually a "he" (the username comes from "creeper" and "skelly" put  together - "skelly" being short for "skeleton" - two mobs from Minecraft). :D

[Brubook 1,161]

 

I'm actually a "he" (the username comes from "creeper" and "skelly" put  together - "skelly" being short for "skeleton" - two mobs from Minecraft). :D

Oho! Bad me! I am very sorry!

But ... to be honest I came to the "she" because of your kindness (well a sum of things... smart mind, gentle talking and a bit stubborn ... on writing only it may seem female!); then I associated that to the "kelly" part! And it all sounded smooth! :)

This also shows my ignorance on games! :)

Sorry again! :)

[creeperskelly 1,281]

Many people make the same mistake while in game - no need to apologize :P

[RustyNail 1,538]

...

I'm actually a "he" (the username comes from "creeper" and "skelly" put  together - "skelly" being short for "skeleton" - two mobs from Minecraft). :D

:ph34r:   You're actually an "it", as a scelly has no sex ;)  :D  :P  so, here's the Creepiest Scelly in the hood! :)

[RustyNail 1,538]

...

Happy players, happy devs, cash machine. Good for all!

Now, the only question we need to ask is:

WHY isn't more than one (thanks Hazel) person in power listening?

Because - in my opinion - they're a bunch of amateurs that don't know how to handle a world business's customer care.. sadly.

[PrinceMalagant 35]

The best battles I played were 'dropped-stuff-only'.

The crystals could be used ( and bought, for buyer-players ) to improve your tank ( as I prefer ), not in 'childish tricks' as drugs actually are.

Never seen in reality an 88mm gun capable to be switched in 205mm pressing a button.

And ranks could be a real skill rating; nowadays they are not.

[N3tralRE 282]

Because - in my opinion - they're a bunch of amateurs that don't know how to handle a world business's customer care.. sadly.

Or maybe they are (ultra?) conservative; that is, they feel that any groundbreaking changes to drugs (which has been with Tanki for a long time) would be their downfall...

[Brubook 1,161]

Or maybe they are (ultra?) conservative; that is, they feel that any groundbreaking changes to drugs (which has been with Tanki for a long time) would be their downfall...

In these cases you have to analyse facts. You are right that drugs nerfing could be Tankin downfall ... but ... how are they going now?

They are already downfalling so, even as a bet, any change couldn't be worst than the actual situation.

Also, in any business, there is always a margin of risk in making choices. Yet you have to make them. And let's remember that not choosing (actual inertia) is making a choice! The choice of doing nothing!

It is all a matter of putting factors on a scale and see (or foresee) where indicator goes!

[PopChaser 60]

Never seen in reality an 88mm gun capable to be switched in 205mm pressing a button.

In reality there are various types of ammunition; the most expensive varieties are (surprise!   :P ) much deadlier than the cheaper ones.  With some guns the ammo type is literally changed with the press of a button.

[RustyNail 1,538]

Or maybe they are (ultra?) conservative; that is, they feel that any groundbreaking changes to drugs (which has been with Tanki for a long time) would be their downfall...

I didn't say that because they haven't done anything but because they didn't come here to talk with us, instead they made poor humor and offered only insults to their clients.

That's not an acceptable P.R. performance.

(besides this, they avoided the truth, trying to turn our attention away from the basic choice they have made, that of making Tanki more expensive and more competitive, struggling the crystals' flow, reducing the fun, just to milk buyers harder. But that's another story, I 'm not in the mood to repeat it another time).

[N3tralRE 282]

@Brubook

Good point.

 

@Rustynail

Oh...sorry if I upset you with my post.  So moving on, I am curious about the developers avoiding the truth; I won't ask what the story is about (you did say you weren't in the mood), but I will ask this: where did you post your story of this startling subject?  Thanks.

 

BTW, below is a link to my poorly-drawn, low-quality drawing of the smart drugs system being abused:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2pra7mo&s=8#.VaGjSYuprzI

[creeperskelly 1,281]

It feels really good to see a big fat drugger lose:

 

 

I took the screenshot after some of the red team left so it really was 10/10 on each team.

 

Prior to the the last few minutes of the round the top person on red had ZERO deaths. He/she was using a big fat Mammoth with Thunder parked next to the red flag and an Isida backing it up.

 

The final score was 2-4 (blue winning).

 

As you can see the reward was paltry compared to the number of supplies this person used in a 30 minute round. Practically every time I went into red base the player was lit up like a Christmas tree.

 

When I saw that the player had 0 deaths I made it my sole purpose in the rest round to kill the tank at least once. I know it pisses druggers off when they don't have a perfect round. :D

[L.I.B.E.R.A.T.O.R 218]

After reading the topic a few times, I disagree that Drugs are the only strategy to win a game. You can spam drugs but if the rest of the team don't care about the game, you'll still lose :P I do think they contribute a part of the winning factor, however. (It doesn't change the fact that drugs are quite strong)

 

The only things that make a confirm 100% win is by using mults and saboteurs in enemy's team, combined by team coordination.

[Brubook 1,161]

Today I had a talk with a friend here in chat.

 

It came out a very simple point coming out of history. I was describing Tanki commercial strategy as follows:

 

Till late 70s every company was "Product-orientated", meaning that they took care of making a good product, under their point of view, first of all. After that, they were thinking how to sell it.

 

Then there was quite a revolution, maybe started by Toyota (at least in the automotive), where they started to think "Customer-orientated", meaning that the product had to be studied accordingly to customers needs.

This brought many thinking and studying, but basically companies were starting to think about the customers, trying to explore their needs, talking to them and understanding them. After that, the product was made with that guidelines in mind.

Company realized that any product has to be potentially sold before making it. Many can do good products, but the only ones who win are the ones who sell their good product! Any good product is useless if it stays in a dark warehouse! And it is not a direct consequence that a good product is automatically sold!

 

This happened more than 30 years ago, proved to be the winning strategy and now it has quite a wide "sperimentation" period to confirm its successful concept.

 

Now you all can see where Tanki company's strategy is positioned!

 

Dear devs and strategists ... maybe you should read some economic history books, because your behaviour here is quite outdated!

Or maybe you should read what your advertisers wrote (I posted it some posts ago, on Alternativa platform description). You should read that and apply it in daily practice!

 

PS. The history of Toyota is on the shelves!

[RustyNail 1,538]

...

@Rustynail

Oh...sorry if I upset you with my post.  So moving on, I am curious about the developers avoiding the truth; I won't ask what the story is about (you did say you weren't in the mood), but I will ask this: where did you post your story of this startling subject?  Thanks.

 

...

You don't upset me with your post. I am just fed up with this story, I have started complaining about this since the dawn of SCD, all in vain.

The story is about a company too indifferent to its customers due to their small average age. Poor monetization system, poorer P.R. End of story.

Too arrogant to confess their updates are creating a very stressful and harsh game environment. They don't want solution, they want this so they can sell lots of drugs.

C ya