Reduce power of garage supplies

[RustyNail 1,538]

If drugs are completely removed, AlternativaPlatform would be out of business...

I just hope that pro passes could be cheaper, say... 500 Cry.

Dude, it's like the 20th time we say "WE NEVER ASKED SUPPLIES TO BE REMOVED" -_-

Please, read before you write...

[HyperQuantum 362]

Dude, it's like the 20th time we say "WE NEVER ASKED SUPPLIES TO BE REMOVED" -_-

Please, read before you write...

Oops my apologies

[creeperskelly 1,281]

 

 

...supportive and skilled isidas...

 

I have often said this makes all the difference in whether a team can win or lose - the lack of any skilled isida player on a team usually means it is doomed.

 

I have seen Isidas that are completely useless - they do not keep defenders healed nor do they have a clue where the flag carrier is on the map.

 

In fact if you have two or three bad Isidas it is worse than having none at all since they are taking spots that could be used by players with offensive turrets.

 

But if you have two skilled ones on a team of 10? Major difference in the outcome.

 

Three skilled isidas - two following each other and one in the base defending - almost impossible to defeat such a team.

 

 

...by simply quit spawn killing...

 

This has to be the number one problem in the game. When this happens I will quit.

 

If I am simply outnumbered but there is no spawn killing I will continue to play because even if the crystal reward is low I can still earn a decent amount of XP. It becomes imposssible even to do that if the other team is spawn killing.

 

I figure on a team of 10 if the players are broken up like this it makes a team very hard to beat: 3-4 defending, 2 or so in the middle of the map, and the others broken up into two groups attacking the flag from different sides. This is why even a good team with few players can still have a chance if the remaining players defend and can at least spawn without being blown up right away.

 

I've been on many rounds where my team was down to 4 v 10 but because we all knew how to defend the score ended up being 7-5 or something like that. The only reason why this was so is because the other team couldn't or would not spawn camp. With too few players it makes it impossible to defend and attack so we end up settling just to keep the score down.

 

The imbalance of teams coupled with drug use by the team with more players coupled with the jerks who spawn camp is the worst situation possible and if there was any mechanism of fairness this situation should never happen.

[Brubook 1,161]

Oops my apologies

Hello HyperQuantum

 

Apart from confirming what RustyNail said and appreciating and accepting your excuses (thanks for being polite), I would like to point out something.

AlternativaPlatform is not a bounch of poor guys sweating to earn their dinner! It is a mechanism that earn millions of dollars (I made some estimations on published data)!

Hence, if they drain players less, they will earn more, because much more players would play and would be pleased to spend real money on a pleasant and satisfying game!

It is better (in economic terms) to earn 10$ from a million users than 1.000$ from 1.000 users! Both because you earn more and because the happy million users will easily tend to become 2-3 or more millions in a short time, while the 1.000 drained users will feel bad and that number will decrease tending to zero in a short time (like it is happening right now to Tanki).

By the way, we also proposed cheaper pro pass too!

 

B.

[Legolover3 91]

I just felt drugging.....again.

I was sitting in server chat, looking for good battles because I want to rank up for the Tankman's day sale. I find a promising Sandbox 3v3 CTF 30 mins long. The opposing side has a WO4 and 2nd Lt. so I expect an easy win. Not so.

 

The 2nt lt. is named super_killerhd (or something like that) and he has Viking M2, presumably from the Vesuvius kit. He also drugs constantly. So, my lives go like this: Spawn. Pwn the WO4. Get Pwned by killerhd. Repeat. We had a great 9-flag lead at the beginning, but killerhd didn't even need help from his team, throwing off our team's most determined efforts like water off a duck. Eventually, near the end, the Lt. Colonel leaves and 3rd Lt. joins who notices the insane drugging of his teammate.

Then....

 

Gold Box Will Be Dropped Soon

 

Despite my cries of "no kill!" he spawn-suppresses/kills our entire team and pushes his teammates out of the way with the superior power of Viking M2, taking the gold.

Sympathetic to our cause, the 3rd Lt. is disgusted by his teammate's unsportsmanlike use of supplies and brute-force taking the Gold, and upon my request blocks the drugger and stops attacking our team. Because of this, we are able to recover somewhat and scrape by with a 16-16 tie.

Endgame rewards:

Me: 399

Drugger: 758

He probably used about 5000 crystals' worth of drugs, too.....

 

This game was massively imbalanced. If he hadn't drugged, it probably would have been about equal since he had Viking M2 despite his diminutive rank.

 

That was a harrowing 30 minutes and not an experience I would like to repeat.

[creeperskelly 1,281]

If the tanks didn't cost so much in the first place there might be less incentive to buy drugs or kits.

 

I really appreciate it when someone on the opposing team tries to do something about the bad players on their team (such as saying "Don't drug or cap flags because the other team is low on players."

[swede1 1,726]

The average Tanki player plays 3-4 hrs a day.

Hazel states that they wish consumables to be more widespread and giving them in daily missions.

The drug wars that go on in Tanki use massive amounts of suplex to be competitive. The average drug war consumes about 150-200 supplies an hr by the heavy users.That's a whopping 450-600 supplies a day for the average player to compete in these wars,while allowances given to players on a daily basis only amounts to 50-150, this falls way short of a balanced system.10% of the players reap 90% of the benifits.

Hazel says one thing but in reality it's still pay to win and the non-buyers don't stand a chance.

who wants to only play for 30-45 minutes a day, so they play for 2-2 1/2 hrs burdening their team cause they have run out os supplies.

[swede1 1,726]

Here is another delemma, to go all out with suplex for a three hr battle costs a player 15k in supplies while the fund is generally only about half that if you are lucky so what is the advantage of promoting supply use when it's a losing proposition.

Hazel refuses to see that the economic model of the game is the issue.

This is why the game is stagnant and the balance is all screwed up!

It's a game for layers with more cash than brains to enjoy the game. And by saying enjoy, it means ruin it for everyone else, and furthermore, if by chance a group of random actually come up against them and put up a fight they fix the battle to ensure the win.

I'm quite sure the win/loss ratio of buyers is astronomical, and Tanki is well aware of this and is keen on making sure those buyers are always happy.

[creeperskelly 1,281]

The reason why the free accounts exist is so the bullies with the supplies have easy targets to pound to pieces. It allows them to feed their superiority complex without having to worry about losing - akin to hunting deer in a zoo with nuclear weapons.

 

If you want to know what it's like simply use an alt account and try ranking up - anyone with skills and who drugs slightly can eat the new users for lunch quite easily. But without using supplies it is a much more fair battle.

 

It's really the same way even at higher ranks. Even with skills it is impossible to compete with someone who has a higher tier of tank and who also drugs. The drugs and higher tier make up for lack of skills.

[RustyNail 1,538]

Here is another delemma, to go all out with suplex for a three hr battle costs a player 15k in supplies while the fund is generally only about half that if you are lucky so what is the advantage of promoting supply use when it's a losing proposition.

Hazel refuses to see that the economic model of the game is the issue.

This is why the game is stagnant and the balance is all screwed up!

It's a game for layers with more cash than brains to enjoy the game. And by saying enjoy, it means ruin it for everyone else, and furthermore, if by chance a group of random actually come up against them and put up a fight they fix the battle to ensure the win.

I'm quite sure the win/loss ratio of buyers is astronomical, and Tanki is well aware of this and is keen on making sure those buyers are always happy.

 

That's right.

I have come to this conclusion for some time now, all problems are based on two defective values. First, the monetization system and second, the ranking / xp system.

I think I will create a relative topic soon.

[euphonium 40]

. One-sided battles that end in losing-team-abandoning-the-battle lose a significant part of funds. It's really to no one's best interest that one team is so much stronger than the other.

I have been pitchin a fuss about this very thing to anyone who will listen.  It's stupid to romp the opposition and then after they all leave, to have to sit on your hands for 15 or 20 more minutes in order to split a few hundred crystals.

 

The only thing to prevent this from happening is a litte-known sign of maturity called "restraint", which should be practiced in a subtle manner by the dominant team.  If the point spread starts getting too high and you notice the losing team starting to bail, it's time to just say no to drugs, dial it back a couple notches, let yourself be blown up a few times and even up the score a bit.  This is a real hard pill for most young kids to swallow though.

[viratno2 146]

It's why I normally play XP/BP battles with supplies turned off. Utterly fair, the only way to win is by your skills.

prob with xp battles is that

 

1. they are damn less nowadays, parkour and all drugs being popular.

2. 4 xp battles we need rail m2 and hornet or wasp m2 with a given set of paints, which are all damn costly.

 

In other words, xp battles are a privilege to ranks above third lieutenant (about that rank) and cannot be given to ranks below the lieutenants.

[viratno2 146]

What is ruining game play are the excessive use of DD, it is made even worse when one team starts to dominate and those with DD in there stocks and lacking an moral compass start spawn camping with DD DA on thus ruining the whole game for the opposition that then have to survive being spawned kill the campers and then try and get back ground to stop the spawn camping.

 

You just get derided as a noob if you indicate any reference to sportsmanship and fair play because these people are idiots only targeting the score and the bigger slice of the pot to make them even more overpowered.

 

For instance,

 

Rio TDM today opposition camping the roof, beach and ridge, most had DD DA on hitting anyone spawning say anything they just responded LOL noob,

 

exactly. For example, if i tell a drugger in my team to stop it, he just starts using profanity and starts acting as if hes the boss and we are all nubs. Those kind of people enrage me the most. Tanki should not remove drugs, but instead make it so that the effectiveness is reduced. Like double damage would give the stats of the next modification. Health can stay as it is, but its working should be random, like for example, a 50% chance of it working. With the first aid update, health should be cheaper.

[viratno2 146]

developers always talk about "balance" on v-logs...

Exactly. First reduce drug power and buyer advantage then talk about balance.

[HyperQuantum 362]

AlternativaPlatform is not a bounch of poor guys sweating to earn their dinner! It is a mechanism that earn millions of dollars (I made some estimations on published data)!

Hence, if they drain players less, they will earn more, because much more players would play and would be pleased to spend real money on a pleasant and satisfying game!

It is better (in economic terms) to earn 10$ from a million users than 1.000$ from 1.000 users! Both because you earn more and because the happy million users will easily tend to become 2-3 or more millions in a short time, while the 1.000 drained users will feel bad and that number will decrease tending to zero in a short time (like it is happening right now to Tanki).

By the way, we also proposed cheaper pro pass too!

 

B.

Hmmm...

This, I have to agree.

Although players are addicted, they are still sensitive enough to detect the developer's motives.

And also, the player base would remain huge as more players are considered for.

It also spreads the risk, if one of the million players quit, the effect is negligible. But if 1 of the 1000 players quit, you lose $1000!

Nice thoughts BTW~

Hope it works out fine... (cheaper pro passes)

[HyperQuantum 362]

It's stupid to romp the opposition and then after they all leave, to have to sit on your hands for 15 or 20 more minutes in order to split a few hundred crystals.

 

After the developers said that they are gonna fix the early finish system, it was never seen again...

Or was it disabled? I can still see that option for PRO battles though

[racer22_online 206]

Thanks Rusty

 

(I wrote a weeks worth off-line and then dumped it on Sunday.  I probably gained more from getting it off my chest - but I was encouraged by one player who actuality read some of my entries.)

 

The summary of what I have been saying lately is that Tanki have done nothing to ensure equal usage of drugs on both sides - they have foolishly left this decision to the players.

With no controls it's no surprise one side gains an unfair advantage over the other.

[racer22_online 206]

On a brighter note the number of players has gone up.  Which means more Free to Play players and more chance to find reduced drug matches.

 

Daily Missions have been very popular and I love them too - apart from collecting specific air drops, which is a silly distraction - although I have learned more locations to find them,

Even my son started playing again.

 

It also may be that when on a mission it is more obvious to Free to Play players that it's best to try to win more drugs boxes than they use up, hence some have been using less than usual.  When on missions, I can get away with using none - apart from a few mines.

[Brubook 1,161]

Hmmm...

This, I have to agree.

Although players are addicted, they are still sensitive enough to detect the developer's motives.

And also, the player base would remain huge as more players are considered for.

It also spreads the risk, if one of the million players quit, the effect is negligible. But if 1 of the 1000 players quit, you lose $1000!

Nice thoughts BTW~

Hope it works out fine... (cheaper pro passes)

Yes, the "risk", or even the physiological "turnover" is a clever concept and should be considered into the "economic matrix"!

 

Unfortunately I fear that our "economical talks" are far higher than Tanki's "drain as much as possible and let it die" concept! Because this is what they are doing now!

[creeperskelly 1,281]

On a brighter note the number of players has gone up.  Which means more Free to Play players and more chance to find reduced drug matches.

 

Daily Missions have been very popular and I love them too - apart from collecting specific air drops, which is a silly distraction - although I have learned more locations to find them,

Even my son started playing again.

 

It also may be that when on a mission it is more obvious to Free to Play players that it's best to try to win more drugs boxes than they use up, hence some have been using less than usual.  When on missions, I can get away with using none - apart from a few mines.

In most cases I have found that missions can be completed using only one map.

 

For example yesterday I had a flag capture, pickup, and come first in battle series of missions. I found someone playing Sandbox who was also there to do missions so we both agreed to let each other do what we needed without slaughtering each other and at the end of each round we were tied - we had picked up each other's flag, then, when the round was nearing an end we parked in the middle and dropped each other's flag.

 

You don't really need to complete the pickup missions on busy maps, and, if you are just 1 v 1 you will always be first in battle. :D

 

Since the missions started my garage supplies are up - I don't use many at all so it's a bonus for me.

[creeperskelly 1,281]

If you want to know what it feels like to be a drugger (step into his or her shoes) then use an alt account - the ability to use the skills of a higher rank coupled with a limited amount of supplies (or even field supplies) makes a slaughter of new players quite easy.

 

But it's not much fun.

[r_priyangshu0 270]

A 100 pages completed! Good talk guys. :)

[racer22_online 206]

100 pages - wow.

 

I like the new topic ('Poll') that suggests we ONLY get crystals for daily missions - then we can choose what we need and not be forced to have massive stocks of unwanted supplies.  (Won't happen because, a drug pusher will always try and get users hooked by giving free or discounted samples!)

 

However, I do note that gaining crystals has become easier - yesterday I managed 10k in 2 hours.

I hope this means more us can afford a Pro Pass?

[racer22_online 206]

I put this in AbsoluteZero's new thread where he attempted to reduce the effect of the imbalance caused by druggers by either reducing the scoring of the druggers or increasing the scoring for the non-druggers.  Both reasonable ideas but the druggers said they feel drugging increases the action and so I think ultimately the druggers will have to fight with druggers.  And because the druggers are the buyers Tanki will always look after this group first in Standard Mode.

 

 

My entry below suggests a new idea for allowing a side to use max 10% more garage drugs than the other.

Which would still not please the druggers!

My other reminder is that simply adding the amount of garage drugs used to the score board could in fact please everyone.  Tanki should try it and see.

 

 

AbsoluteZero is a diamond - he has worked hard at helping improve the game for everyone.

His Kick2 idea is just what we need to get rid of 'mult' low scoring tanks - we probably have to wait to get Unity is going properly (maybe even 1year) before Tanki will even consider this.

We have all accepted that Garage Drugs are part of the Standard Game and none of us 'sportsman players' are suggesting removing them - we just need an automatic balancing force...which is where AbsoluteZero is coming from in this thread.

 

Those that want 'drug free' games or 'reduced drug' games should be using Pro Mode - it's just very irresponsible of Tanki not to have made Pro Mode more popular.

Pro Mode is almost unusable at present - due to the low numbers of games available.

If Pro Mode was free, at least 80% of tankers would use Pro Mode!  This says a lot about how unhappy many tankers are with the current Standard Mode.

Pro Mode allows the 'Sportsman Players' to be kept away from Druggers - which is why Tanki has not made Pro Mode popular!

Druggers need Sportsmen players to beat up.

Because Tanki refuses to help with Pro Mode (without Tanki help we have suggested that EN3 is used for non garage drug Pro Mode matches and EN9 (or whatever is the last EN server) is used exclusively for 'voluntary non garage drug' matches.  We cannot monitor low drug use - so we have to say non drug use!)

I'm hopeful that with the increased crystals earned from Daily Missions, more Tankers can afford the Pro Mode Pass and make an effort to create battles once per day!  It's chicken and egg!

 

 

The real problem with Standard Mode is that Tanki 'allowed' THE PLAYERS to have control over the game balance!  this is foolish - I reckon 10% of players cannot be trusted to play fair!

It would be better if 'buyers' could only gain XP advancement (2x passes) and Tank power enhancement (MU) - but not be allowed to upset the game balance by using MORE garage drugs than anyone else.

Tanki go to huge trouble to balance the tanks and then they let 10% of the players unbalance the sides.

 

Dealing with DM matches first:

In DM, druggers mostly get the best scores - i.e. they have effectively bought XP for themselves at everyone else's expense (time).

The best counter to this is to simply show the amount of Garage drugs used per player on the score board - then we know who has skill or not!

 

 

In Team matches:

Over 80% of us prefer to take part in more closely balanced matches.

It's the game rules that should help keep the balance - just as in any other sport.

The game rightly attempts to balance the number of players on each side.

However, the game does nothing to prevent one side more using more garage drugs than the other - which causes massive imbalance.

It's also the lighter tanks that suffer more than the heavy tanks.  Unsurprisingly the Viking is now the druggers favorite tank.

 

If both sides were allowed equal amounts of garage drugs then the balance would be much better.

At present a losing side will not drug because the crystals earned from losing will not cover the loss of supply stocks.  This adds to the imbalance.

While leading side justifies using more garage drugs because of infighting for the top spots!  This adds to the imbalance.

 

Solution:

Simply prevent garage drug use when one side has used more than 10% of the other side and have an onscreen display to show the percentage - turns Red as the limit is crossed.

This 10% figure is a 'parameter' and could be adjusted by forum suggestion and Tanki experiment.

Doing this prevents one side from running miles ahead of the other by over using garage drugs as we so often see today.

Because this involves programming we cannot get this until Unity is working properly.

 

In the short term:

It would be very easy for Tanki to show the amount of Garage drugs used per player on the score board - then we know who has skill or not.

Just doing this will have more effect then you might think.  The 'Gods' will be those at the top of the leader board who have not used garage drugs :0)

(Even better if you manage to do this feat in Red paint or Holiday paint = zero paint protection.)

(Red paint = making a protest at Tanki's lack of action in helping to promote Pro Mode).

The 'entrenched' druggers will still be happy because they will still be at the top of the score board.

More of the skilled players will try to show they can score well without garage drugs - so the percentage of druggers will be lower.

For voluntary non-drug or low drug matches, we will be able to check who has complied.

Equally for Full drug matches we'll be able to see who has not been drugging enough!

[asifmehmood 1,576]

drugs now a days better than skills cause if some one know skill the other will use any drug and will be consider and winner at the end of battle cause drugging is too good and skills are vanished