Censored words

[r_AngelOfDeath2 35]

I'm not sure where to post this (admin feel free to move this post to another location).

There are lots of words that are appropriately censored in chat...words that break the insults and profanity rule.

Then there are 2 words on Tanki that cause more provocation than ANY other.

We all see them used on chat in-game and out but they are usually the catalyst for all sorts of arguments to break out and frequently resulting in either or all involved players getting banned.

I propose to censor the words noob and drugger and derivations :angry:
 

• Noob, newb, newbie, nub, n00b
• Drugger, drugga, druger, junkie

If these words were censored just imagine how much it would help to clean up chat!

Of course it's not 100%, players will still argue and insult each other but censoring these words would disarm a lot of players that use them regularly to insult and provoke others.

There is no need to call someone a noob, it is used widely as a derogatory term for someone that is rubbish at the game. A non-derogatory equivalent is a beginner.

Whatever people's opinions about drugging (right or wrong) the it is usually expressed by someone that wants to vent their frustration at another player and intended as an insult. There is no need to call someone a drugger or talk about using supplies as "taking drugs", which has negative connotations.

I can't think of any reason this proposal would be opposed but I'd like to get feedback. Please reply if you have any rational objections or if you want to support this proposal.

Thanks

AoD

Edited November 23, 2016 by r_AngelOfDeath2

[MSI 1,926]

I don't think that it's necessary. If people insult you, you can always take a screenshot and report them or you may also ignore them.

[r_AngelOfDeath2 35]

Thanks for your reply Anonymous.

I understand that there are both those options. Obviously ignore is quick and effective, whereas a screenshot and report takes more effort

In most instances I would agree, however my issue with both actions in this instance is they are ineffective reactions to a widespread problem. People calling each other noobs and druggers is such a common encounter for every player, why should you have to ignore or report each player each time?

It's also something that comes up in the forum chat and in-game all the time. Players constantly insulting each other. It's often put in the public channels so everyone reads it. Even if a player ignores someone - if they're making the insults public each player would have to ignore.

Censoring those few words as I've proprosed would be incredibly easy to implement and by far the simplest and most efficient way to deal with the problem.

Edited November 20, 2016 by r_AngelOfDeath2

[CooperO 7,956]

Of course it's not 100%, players will still argue and insult each other but censoring these words would disarm a lot of players that use them regularly to insult and provoke others.

Exactly this. If a word like newbie will get censored, players will start calling other bad players a beginner. Then that word will be censored because it might be insulting to others, after that, players will come up with another word to describe how bad someone is (recruit or rookie for example).

The term drugger can be used by players who try to insult someone that uses supplies, but the word itself isn't insulting in any way. The terms 'drugs' and 'druggers' are widely used among tankers to describe supplies and the use of them. Most of these times, they're not used to try and insult someone. 

You have to understand that Tanki cannot just censor every single word that might be perceived as insulting to some players. There wouldn't be much left uncensored after a while if that were the case.

Furthermore, if you feel insulted by other players, you're advised to use the /ignore command to add those players to your block list. 

There is a thin line between protecting the players from harm and censoring them altogether and it's important not to cross that line.

Censoring words that are not insulting by nature, but are just used by people to try and insult, would cross that line.

 

As for you not being sure where to post this: this is the section for technical problems and solutions. We do have a topic called Complaint Book, this topic is closely monitored by our community manager @Cedric Debono. He will in turn forward the complaints to the right people.

[fordmustang12345 3,910]

NO, Tanki already censores to much (words like sh!t and others that dont even make sense to why they are censored )

[Penguin40 1,714]

I disagree. Many players don't use them in offensive ways, some even use em in a joking manner :p

 

Instead, mods could take care and keep a watch of these words showing up whenever they can do it, in their fields, and then decide whether to warn/ban players if offensive or leave if not offensive. This could be tricky, but mods already scour the places well so if they detect these words (not talking bout battle chat, too tricky to monitor closely), they can be a little more alert and decide between warn/ban and leaving.

[r_AngelOfDeath2 35]

Exactly this. If a word like newbie will get censored, players will start calling other bad players a beginner. Then that word will be censored because it might be insulting to others, after that, players will come up with another word to describe how bad someone is (recruit or rookie for example).

The term drugger can be used by players who try to insult someone that uses supplies, but the word itself isn't insulting in any way. The terms 'drugs' and 'druggers' are widely used among tankers to describe supplies and the use of them. Most of these times, they're not used to try and insult someone. 

You have to understand that Tanki cannot just censor every single word that might be perceived as insulting to some players. There wouldn't be much left uncensored after a while if that were the case.

Furthermore, if you feel insulted by other players, you're advised to use the /ignore command to add those players to your block list. 

There is a thin line between protecting the players from harm and censoring them altogether and it's important not to cross that line.

Censoring words that are not insulting by nature, but are just used by people to try and insult, would cross that line.

 

As for you not being sure where to post this: this is the section for technical problems and solutions. We do have a topic called Complaint Book, this topic is closely monitored by our community manager @Cedric Debono. He will in turn forward the complaints to the right people.

Calling someone a "beginner" is not going to take off, neither would "recruit"..."rookie" possibly could but if it became as big problem that's just one word they could add to censor. Is it hard to do? No. Would it help? Yes.

 

As much as you might want to pretend it isn't...calling someone a "drugger" IS a derogatory term. It IS meant as an insult, whether it's done "as a joke" is besides the point,

 

You could use any of censored word, insult someone and then say "oh but I was just joking", that usually doesn't wash with the moderators though. My point is that in the vast majority of cases these words are used thousands and thousands of times every day as an INSULT.

 

You have to understand that this proposal was to censor 2 words (and derivatives) NOT EVERY word...that would be silly. It's looking at the glaringly obvious problem and finding a very obvious and extremely simple solution.

 

 I've already addressed the ignore and report options, so I don't think I need to elaborate further but suggest you read the comments.

 

Once again, I should reiterate for anyone confused by this simple proposal - it's NOT about censoring EVERY word. It's NOT about crossing a line and is certainly far from it. It's simply:

 

1) Identifying what words used primarily as insults ARE permitted and cause a lot of problems in chat.

2) What is the easiest method of tackling the problem that would do no harm to the community but help to eliminate insults commonly intended to provoke or offend other players.

 

It was not about not being sure where to post this but more about saying to admin, if you think this post is better suited elsewhere please move it. I didn't see where it said about this section being for technical problems and solutions and the idea and suggestions section has it's own set of rules.Obviously the Complaints section you suggested would not be an appropriate place as it's not a complaint but a proposal.

 

 

 

[AverageDavelaar 89]

Disagree with this idea

[r_AngelOfDeath2 35]

CooperO, on 20 Nov 2016 - 14:20, said:

The terms 'drugs' and 'druggers' are widely used among tankers to describe supplies and the use of them.

Heheheh

Exactly. we can laugh at that comment because however you want to package it up we all recognise that those terms are used primarily as insults.

If we're talking about using supplies, why not just say "using supplies". Why do we people resort to name-calling like kids in a playground?

The reason "drugger" and "drugs" became popular is because they made for good insults to describe a person who wins by using supplies. Regardless of whether you would be insulted or not by being called a drugger makes no difference.

[r_AngelOfDeath2 35]

NO, Tanki already censores to much (words like sh!t and others that dont even make sense to why they are censored )

I agree, that Tanki censors a lot of words and perhaps some that don't warrant censorship. These words actually should be censored IMO, as it would make a big difference.

[r_AngelOfDeath2 35]

I understand that players who are in the practice of calling other players "druggers" and "noobs" will probably oppose this idea. I hope there are some people out there who can be a little more objective :)

Edited November 20, 2016 by r_AngelOfDeath2

[r_AngelOfDeath2 35]

Look, if you get easily offended when someone calls you noob then go ahead and block them. Don't ask devs to censor the word as there are many people who don't use it as an insult. The original meaning of "noob" is a beginner at something. 

 

 

I think you'll find the definition is pretty well known and has been mentioned several times already. It is also well-known that is is used as primarily as an insult.

 

I understand that this is going to be hard for any players with a limited mental capacity to comprehend (call it lack of age and wisdom) but I am not personally offended by either of those insults (let's just say I'm more mature than most Tanki players on the forums and in game).

 

Tanki's audience is however mostly kids between 8 and 16 years of age, which is why the chat reads like a conversation in a children's playground. My proposal is for the benefit of lots of kids that play Tanki because the use of those words causes problems and the standard fixes don't really help. It certainly is not a personal thing,

 

Sure, Tanki is a steaming pile of poo and there are lots of other problems with the game but this is just one with an easy fix.

 

I don't know if  I'm explaining myself to children (it feels like it based upon the responses thus far) but thanks for at least reading this thread and responding. It would be nice if I could have some intelligent objections but I appreciate all feedback regardless.

Edited November 21, 2016 by r_AngelOfDeath2

[CooperO 7,956]

I'm not sure whether to think it's funny or if you're trying to be insulting, but calling others kids or people with a limited mental capacity just because they do not agree with your point of view is really not the way to go. Maybe we should start censoring the word 'kid' too as it is used to insult in many occasions?
 

You're asking for just two words to be censored, but once Tanki censors those, there will be other words that might need censoring according to some.. Where would it end? They can't just grant everyone's wish and start censoring every word that might be used as an insult.

 

As for drugs, drugger and noob being mainly used as insults, where do you base that claim on? I have called supplies drugs from when I just started playing. I asked players in my team to please use their drugs, I've called myself a drugger when I was drugging, though generally speaking I'm not a drugger. I drug when needed and I have never considered it as an insult. Or was I insulting myself just now? I also call myself a noob many a time, sometimes I just make some noob moves, everyone does. I call my fellow mods noobs on a regular basis, I don't mean that as an insult and none of them even think of taking it as an insult. Of course this could just be me, but as far as I know, many people don't use these words as insults, nor get insulted by those words. This is further confirmed by the couple of players that replied in this topic.

 

On a side note, you can refer to the section rules, in which it is stated that this section is for technical problems and solutions.

[Deadwords 298]

How about we just censor all nouns to make name-calling literally impossible?

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Disagree with this idea completely. 

 

1. Druggers create frustration and unhappiness for other (non-drugger) players.

2. Druggers are druggers. There's no getting around it, no denying the facts.

3. Drugging is optional.

4. This isn't an authoritarian regime, where you can't speak out.

5. Druggers know full well they are annoying other players- they drug anyway.

6. There are much worse insults out there.

7. Ignore the player if you want.

8. Take a screenshot if they are actually insulting you.

9. Accept the fact that drugging makes enemies. :)

10. Try to understand it from a non-drugger's perspective.

11. Drugging to win isn't even enjoyable. Any person with a developed sense of fairness will know it is more satisfying to come close than to win by cheating. (OFC drugging isn't cheating- it's an example)

12. Why are you even drugging anyway? Do you only care about your personal success?

 

BTW drugging against other druggers is perfectly fine and encouraged.

 

As for noob, I partly agree. You shouldn't call others noobs, its rude and immature. But it doesn't merit a ban.

 

Somebody else (shall remain nameless) even had an idea that as soon as you type "drugger", you get an automatic ban by an in-game system (not a human mod).   :wacko:   :blink:   :blink:   :blink:

Edited November 22, 2016 by r_I_already_won0

[railguniz4noobz 2,394]

Noob is the one word you get to use to insult someone, you cant discriminate against noobs but its perfectly fine to call them noobs.

[Phoenix.Raised 5,992]

^ noobs, you totally forgot about the word "buyer" :p

[AverageDavelaar 89]

^ noobs, you totally forgot about the word "buyer" :P

LOL

[Deadwords 298]

Just move this to "Ideas and Suggestions" and reject it already!

[GeeVuh 1,647]

Heck no. What if I just wanna joke with someone and call them a noob?

[omrot 2,327]

If you censor these words, I'll just use N00B and Druger

[r_AngelOfDeath2 35]

I'm not sure whether to think it's funny or if you're trying to be insulting, but calling others kids or people with a limited mental capacity just because they do not agree with your point of view is really not the way to go. Maybe we should start censoring the word 'kid' too as it is used to insult in many occasions?

 

You're asking for just two words to be censored, but once Tanki censors those, there will be other words that might need censoring according to some.. Where would it end? They can't just grant everyone's wish and start censoring every word that might be used as an insult.

 

As for drugs, drugger and noob being mainly used as insults, where do you base that claim on? I have called supplies drugs from when I just started playing. I asked players in my team to please use their drugs, I've called myself a drugger when I was drugging, though generally speaking I'm not a drugger. I drug when needed and I have never considered it as an insult. Or was I insulting myself just now? I also call myself a noob many a time, sometimes I just make some noob moves, everyone does. I call my fellow mods noobs on a regular basis, I don't mean that as an insult and none of them even think of taking it as an insult. Of course this could just be me, but as far as I know, many people don't use these words as insults, nor get insulted by those words. This is further confirmed by the couple of players that replied in this topic.

 

On a side note, you can refer to the section rules, in which it is stated that this section is for technical problems and solutions.

I think you misunderstood. I'm not calling others "kids". We all know that tanki is a game that a lot of kids play. Most kids that play this game are between 8 and 16. There may be a few that are 17, 18 or 19 (and in the adult world they may legally be considered adults but by society they are by and large still "kids"). It's no more an insult than calling someone an "adult".

 

By limited mental capacity I meant someone that is struggling to comprehend something that is very simple, that could just be a factor of inexperience and youth as I said. It's not suppose to be funny and I definitely was not asserting that they have some kind of mental problem (sorry if you were offended). If I state something quite clearly and simply yet a reader still can't grasp that simple concept, I would say that they may not yet have the capacity to understand.

 

It's a good question "where does it end?". I think, you could always argue that as a reason to take no action but couldn't they at least trial it for a couple of months and see what impact it makes?

 

There's a number of naysayers that are criticizing the proposal but I have yet to read anything that is logical. Most responses are "I like calling people noobs and druggers".

 

If you don't think "noob" and "drugger" are frequently used to insult I can only assume you you don't read chat. It's widely accepted and known that these words are most commonly used to provoke players.

 

Instead of talking about "drugs" you could easily replace the word "drug" with "supplies" as the game refers to it. I ge your point about calling yourself a "noob" but you could easily re-phrase it or use another word.

 

I personally am neither a "drugger" or a "noob" but I just get sick of seeing people constantly using those terms to insult others and it's easy to say..."just press ignore" but it goes on and on and on and on. Those terms get used ALL the time and in 90% of cases it's to insult another player or to provoke another player. That's what prompted me to write this post and I'm disappointed by the reaction. It does say a lot about the maturity of the Tanki community but hopefully one day things will improve.

 

If anyone has an alternative solution to the problem, I'm all ears.

Edited November 23, 2016 by r_AngelOfDeath2

[r_AngelOfDeath2 35]

 

Disagree with this idea completely. 

 

1. Druggers create frustration and unhappiness for other (non-drugger) players.

2. Druggers are druggers. There's no getting around it, no denying the facts.

3. Drugging is optional.

4. This isn't an authoritarian regime, where you can't speak out.

5. Druggers know full well they are annoying other players- they drug anyway.

6. There are much worse insults out there.

7. Ignore the player if you want.

8. Take a screenshot if they are actually insulting you.

9. Accept the fact that drugging makes enemies. :)

10. Try to understand it from a non-drugger's perspective.

11. Drugging to win isn't even enjoyable. Any person with a developed sense of fairness will know it is more satisfying to come close than to win by cheating. (OFC drugging isn't cheating- it's an example)

12. Why are you even drugging anyway? Do you only care about your personal success?

 

BTW drugging against other druggers is perfectly fine and encouraged.

 

As for noob, I partly agree. You shouldn't call others noobs, its rude and immature. But it doesn't merit a ban.

 

Somebody else (shall remain nameless) even had an idea that as soon as you type "drugger", you get an automatic ban by an in-game system (not a human mod).   :wacko:   :blink:   :blink:   :blink:

 

1. I agree about frustration.

2. Seems like a fairly hollow statement.

3. Yes...not sure about the point you're making?

4. Well, a lot of words are censored. There's a very strict set of rules that are open to interpretation and it's developed by the Russians. I think many players would disagree with you.

5. I don't drug but unfortunately "drugging" is part of the game and is there to create another stream of revenue.

6. That may be but nevertheless the term "drugger" is widely used as an insult.

7. We're not talking about one player, we're talking about thousands.

8. As I've tried to explain, in the most simple way to make it very easy to understand..it's NOT personal. It's NOT about someone insulting me. It's about people insulting others all over the place.

9. I don't agree about it making enemies but it does lead to frustration and can provoke an angry response as mentioned in your first point.

10. I don't not what assumption you're making here?

11. I'm not sure who your point is to. I only use drugs when forced to..i.e when faced with an attacking serial drugger.

12. Obviously you made a wrong assumption here. See above.

 

I wasn't suggesting a ban - which is when someone gets reported for a violation and knocked off the air for a period of time. I was suggesting a censorship of the words that are most widely used to insult others and/or to provoke an angry response.

 

Would it have a negative impact on the game?

Would people stop playing because they can't call other players "noobs"?

Would it have a positive impact on the game?

Would it help eliminate the volume of insults?

Could they trial it?

Are there ANY sensible objections?

[Cyborg 3,189]

 

Then how would I tell my friends, 'Noob drugger vidio ban!'

 

 

Well, to the point. Censoring these two words make no sense to me due to some reasons which are: 

1. Drugs are the popular name of Supplies. Supplies is not an offensive word anyway, also if they were to censor this word, then most of the supply related forum topics would be considered offensive.
2. Noob, refers to a newbie meaning a one with low experience. Noob is not an insult, its just used to take out some of your heat that gets produced when you get annoyed while playing a match and when you are losing especially. Noob is a widely used word, not always for insults unless being accompanied with other censored words. Chat mods know it better ;)

Would it have a positive impact on the game?

 

No, it won't. Censoring words like this would completely take away the freedom of speech from a fellow player, their would be too many reports, chat mods work being tougher and tougher. Reason? Noob and Drugger are used way too much! Not for insults whatsoever, as I mentioned before. 

 

Would it eliminate the volume on insults?

 

Definitely no! It would make the 'Dark Side' of the players imaginative brains to run faster, thus creating new types of words, which would ACTUALLY be offensive. That's the reason why censoring  word, only helps to some extent and that is why there are people called 'Chat Moderators' who keep an eye over the players creativity skills regarding this matter, if there was such a nice censor mechanism in the game, then there would not be a need of any kind of moderation. Every thing in this game, is well thought out before it comes to existence.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Cyborg

[malval 49]

I don't think that it's necessary. If people insult you, you can always take a screenshot and report them or you may also ignore them.

This creates more work than just simply filtering them out, which i believe is a good idea.