Reduce power of garage supplies

[Brubook 1,161]

UPDATE: DUE TO THE LENGTH OF THE DISCUSSION WE MADE A SUM-UP OF THE TOPIC (after about 70 pages).

 

POSTS #1 AND #2 OPEN THE DISCUSSION, THEN YOU DON'T NEED TO READ IT ALL THROUGH.

 

 

YOU CAN FIND SUM-UP WITH MOST CONTRIBUTIONS AND IDEAS AT POST #1411 - PAGE 71

 

LINK: http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=246957&page=71&do=findComment&comment=4714520

 

THANK YOU

 

 

Anyone in the actual game is forced to drug if he want to have a chance to win a battle, and a battle is definitely won by the more drugged team. Is really this the devs idea for the game? Is the all game a matter of pressing the right drug button? I hope not!

And if you add the heal button the thing gets even worse.

 

Anyway this makes the game a mere matter of drugs, which I hope it is not DEVS idea of the game! Right now if someone comes drugged to me, I know that I am dead if I don't drug too. No matter what rank or weapon! Very sad!

 

Right now I feel hopeless when I enter a battle ... it is not a good feeling and it will probably make me abandon this great game, if something doesn't change! And this idea is spreading on many and many Tanki players!

 

 

From one weapon or hull upgrade to another (M1 to M2 for example) the rise in characteristics is abt. 20-25%.

Using a drug actually hypotetically rise you of 4-5 level. A M2 weapon become M6 or M7 !!!!!

 

This is a terrible unbalancing of the game.

 

This makes it impossible any fair face to face between a drugger and one who is not.

 

This makes the game a matter of "drug = I win" or "no drug = I loose"

 

On the TO Newsletter and on the forum I have been reading thousands of words on strategy, "the best hull-turret combination", "how a specific weapon works", "how to organize a flag capture", and so on .... but the reality of the game now is: I DRUG = I WIN and I DON'T DRUG = I LOOSE. That is it! Sad, isn't it?

 

This makes the strategy "only with drugs I win"; this means anyone that wants to win has to drugs; this makes everyone drug; this makes the game both odd for drug-non drug comparison and even for drug-drug fight.

 

The purpose is (or should be) to rely more on skills and ability, strategy and better weapon use, rather than press a button or a desperate search of a power-up as the only "strategy" of playing.

The point is allowing a non-payer or a low-payer to enjoy the game too. This is apparently an anti-economic concept for Tanki, but it is the exact contrary instead. More players means more paying players in percentage and many players give a necessary base (critical mass) for the game to be interesting for everyone. It is a matter of numbers!

 

 

This is why I want to propose a suggestion for developers: a decrease of extra power and resistance to a max of 25-30% of extra (as it is for speed), rather than double those features, or make the drug effect to temporarily give the next level characteristics (like a drugged M1 to be like a M2 for a limited time).

This would also make people feel and try how is the weapon or hull on the next level on that feature.

 

Did you all ever noticed that increase of speed is of 30%? Why it is not doubled speed? Also the devs realised that double speed would be too much ... same as for other drugs!!! Power and resistance are pumped up too much!

Same thing for steps (M0 to M1, M1 to M2, M2 to M3). Did you all noticed that every step gives about 20-25% of increase in performances? Why? I mean a hunter M1 costs 29.900 crystals, a wasp M2 costs 102.700 crystals, a dictator M3 costs 223.000 crystals. Why we get ONLY a 20-25% increase for all those crystals? Probably to allow a range of ranks to play together. And why did they need to do that? Probably to have a balanced game.

 

The process of bringing drugs to a +25% increase may be done gradually: a decrease of extra power and resistance to a max of 25-30% of extra, rather than double those features. This can be done gradually to let anyone get used to it, by reducing a 15-20% a week till the target. In this way it will probably not even noticed and it will be accepted by drug addicted.

 

A non drug section would be also welcome (not a PAY one). If I have to pay to find non druggers, I will not have the crystal to buy tanks, turrets or upgrades!

 

I suggest a serious brain storming on this topic.

 

 

Thank you

 

 

 

12 may 2015 edit:

 

On one of the last posts (#779) Rohrmeister came up with a great idea. He also made up the poster below. Have a look at it and follow if you like.

Thank you

 

 

Thanks to Rohrmeister

[Brubook 1,161]

Let's make an example

 

You start at 1st rank Recruit with hunter and smoky

 

- You enter battles limited to the first 9 ranks up to Sergeant-Major usually. Why? To give opponents the same chances to win, and to have balanced games!

- Your smoky cause 18.0-22.0 of damage and your hunter resist 100 of damage

 

 

DRUG

 

- If you drug you cause 36.0-44.0 of damage which is more than a SMOKY M3

- you can access a Smoky M3 at level Marshal .... 27 ranks higher than yours

 

 

So, why limit the battles to a rank range? Answer: to have balanced games!

 

And why give so much extra power (as 27 ranks higher) to a weapon? Answer: It is a clear UNBALANCING of game battle!

 

It is clear that with that extra power (+100%) there is absolutely impossible to win a fight if you don't get protection drug (+100% protection)

 

 

Also .... why speed is powered up of 30% only? Answer: that is the right increase and you realized it! A 100% increase would be too much, overhelming!

 

 

With drugs you let a 1st rank beat a 28th rank Marshall, just pressing a button or getting pick-up.

 

Is this the matter and strategy of the whole game? Press drug and heal buttons or look for pickups?

Today that is what anyone do, and the majority of players who don't shop or shop a little are always loosing games. This will soon end up with a final annoying feeling for the game and abandoning it by the greater part of players who are not constantly paying for drugs.

I think that you want TO to go better and better, but the "critical mass" of player (the number that allow you to handle the game running and interesting) will have enough of extra drugs power and probably abandon game!!

 

 

 

DRUG INCREASE OF POWER SHOULD NOT BE GREATER THAN THE NEXT UPGRADE PARAMETERS

 

Example: a Smoky M0 with drug should have 22.0-27.0 of power (M1 values) .... NO MORE

[beaku 2,656]

Play a PRO battle. No drugs allowed.

[dilsharox 2,395]

its nice to see m3 players going against drugging cuz most of them drug everytime i  see one but the solution for this is to play in pro battles & there are so many pro battles in the RU servers

[Brubook 1,161]

dilsharox, thanks for comment

 

The solution of PRO battle is:

- expensive (non drugging should be a privilege to pay for?)

- not soo popular (for cost) as you say

- often of selected ranks (usually very high ranks only, for generalissimos)

 

As I said PRO battle should not be an expensive privilege. For a non payer or little payer the economic balance is important, if you want to get tank and turret adequate to the ranks you are.

 

Also, lately most PRO battles are XP only!

 

Finally, I think that in all battles there should be a balance. If you think, why Tanki set up limited ranks for battles? To have balanced situation I think. Drugs are actually like make battles for generalissimos with 1st rank players!! As I wrote before, drugs can pump up a turret of 27 ranks when used! That is too much!

[Promissory 569]

PRO Battle doens't only give you the non-drugs battle. It gives you waay more advantages, and at your rank it shouldn't be hard to afford it. 

I am a drugger k, and I waste my drugs. To save my drugs, I play XP or play PRO Non-drugging battles. They're fun, and there's a great variety.

 

And inside of us, we all love to drug.

[Brubook 1,161]

Xx_Like-a-boss_xX thanks for comment

Actually, as a non buyer, everything is hard to afford. But if I choose to save for hull turrets or paints, there is no more left for drugs or passes. If you add a minimum of MUs .... crystals are never enough if you don't buy!

 

Anyway drugs gives the inside childish feeling of the easy superiority, which is quite different from a balanced battle concept.

 

Also, many PRO battles allows drugs anyway ..... so the non drugs ones are not that much!

[Brubook 1,161]

And if you put this game as a matter of money (the richest wins), I don't think it is fair!

 

Money cannot pay skills and this is what it should be used in the game first of all

[masoud_b 678]

when we have many players who just ranked up by something like fire wasp and these kind of things , and also dont have any experience for playing the game , they're last way is to get it worse

 

and how ? just press 1 2 3 4

thats all

-----------

i am not a drugger but i many times forced to be a drugger

noobs come to battles , they also can talk english and they understand that when we say dont drug please

but when they dont listen .... and most of players who do not accept are just noobs which going to make hopes for winning by using drugs

---------

 

PRO Battle doens't only give you the non-drugs battle. It gives you waay more advantages, and at your rank it shouldn't be hard to afford it. 

I am a drugger k, and I waste my drugs. To save my drugs, I play XP or play PRO Non-drugging battles. They're fun, and there's a great variety.

 

And inside of us, we all love to drug.

the most important reason to play pro battle is just and just playing non-drugs

its not about affording the price of a pro battle pass , its about why we have some players who just drugs ?

 

we have druggers in different situations

some ones thinks than yeah i have drug so lets drug and get score and crystals... that was better if these kind of players were crystal buyers !

some other just drugs when they face druggers , just to prove them that they are noobs who drugs in just a normal battle

also we have other kind ! when they're team is losing , they start drugging to change the result

 

 

in second and third group , their reason is acceptable , but what is your reason as a player from the first group ?

 

if you are a drug lover , so do you create pro battles and turning off smart cool downs and then start drugging ?

------------

Brubook

its your sentence isnt it ? The purpose is (or should be) to rely more on skills and ability, strategy and better weapon use, rather than press a button or a desperate search of a power-up as the only "strategy" of playing.

 

why should i play hard when i can give tanki money and get everything so easy and fast ? so , when i can kill every one with drugs why i make it harder for my self and not use drugs ?

 

 as you write just some seconds ago , the matter is money now ! its not going to be money cause now who spend more money rules

money cant pay skills but it can give tanki some things ... am i wrong ?

[masoud_b 678]

the part you said that drugs changes m1 parameters to m2 ( as an example ) was really absorbing

[Brubook 1,161]

masoud_b thanks for comment

You said very right things! I only doubt about your money conclusions with respect to tanki.

As I wrote, non druggers (and non buyers or little buyers) actually give Tanki the critical mass (the sufficient number of players) to make the game interesting for everyone. Then, a percentage of that mass will be more keen on buying, giving money to support Tanki.

Also, Tanki money can come from materials and MUs too. Overall you can spend millions of cry to have the tanks or turrets or paints you want.

 

Lets remember that without the critical mass, Tanki would not exist and be as it is!

 

Still, I am not saying to eliminate drugs, but only to moderate their power. Thus giving a "plus" to everyone's skills and not a overwhelming excessive unstoppable power!

[Promissory 569]

The thing is, PRO pass isn't even expensive. The druggers already pay for their drugs, so you should pay for your pass. If everyone would do so, at least from... I'll say Major, there would be SO many more PRO battles. I mean, 5k is nothing compared to the money that buyers spend in drugs. Don't get me wrong. And what you say is true, I wouldn't win half of my battles if it weren't because of drugs and friends >_<

[Cor7y 13,862]

OK, so you want to tweak drugs. So, my challenge for you: capture 3 flags in hill without using only nitro and health ( no isida to heal you.)

[Brubook 1,161]

OK, so you want to tweak drugs. So, my challenge for you: capture 3 flags in hill without using only nitro and health ( no isida to heal you.)

Thanks for comment

 

Well, if you have druggers on the other side it is difficult, but with balanced teams it is possible .... thinking on tactics and using skills!

That is exactly the point. Battle should not be easy, it is not even funny if easy! In this way you think on strategy to fight and how to use weapons and skills!

This should be the purpose of the game!

[lukey0 27,543]

Drugs were nerfed enough when Smart Cooldowns came. Why nerf them more? Tanki would lose massive money if they did that.

[snipe3000 678]

I have no drugs I win almost every battle I play.

 

 

 

If an m1 newbie with drugs goes against an m1 with skills who do you think will win? The skilled m1 will win.

 

 

Drugs were nerfed enough when Smart Cooldowns came. Why nerf them more? Tanki would lose massive money if they did that.

 

Yeah think about the people who buy a ton of cry then turn around and buy drugs

[Brubook 1,161]

Drugs were nerfed enough when Smart Cooldowns came. Why nerf them more? Tanki would lose massive money if they did that.

Actually I explained why nerf them more ... and I also explain why it is not a money loss for Tanki

[Brubook 1,161]

I have no drugs I win almost every battle I play.

 

 

 

If an m1 newbie with drugs goes against an m1 with skills who do you think will win? The skilled m1 will win.

 

 

 

Yeah think about the people who buy a ton of cry then turn around and buy drugs

Maybe you are very skilled, but normally drug wins. I made also example of overpower of drugs that make fatal even 1 shot of some weapons!

You talk about buying .... and I say: is this game a matter of money? I mean, do the richest win? If so, it is very unfair!

[austlee 56]

So are you saying that you don't get enough supplies, or too many people use supplies?

[Brubook 1,161]

So are you saying that you don't get enough supplies, or too many people use supplies?

None of the two. I have thousands of every type of supplies. The point is the exaggerated overpower of supplies. They increase too much the power or resistance of tanks and turrets.

This create a bad unbalance of the game, as I described.

[Maf 32,300]

It amazes me how players of ranks as high as Marshal still complain about supply use in battles. You get 60 supplies every day FOR FREE, why are you complaining? Just create an alternate account, play with it and collect the everyday bonus on your main one. After a week of collection you are guaranteed to have over a 100 more of each supply.

 

 

Anyone in the actual game is forced to drug if he want to have a chance to win a battle, and a battle is definitely won by the more drugged team. Is really this the devs idea for the game? Is the all game a matter of pressing the right drug button? I hope not!

It isn't, never was and never will be. Yes, supplies are a very strong temporary bonus to your tank's parameters, but the main deciding factor is still skill and strategy. I've seen games where Mammoths with full drugs were lying on their backs most of the time because they couldn't navigate the terrain properly, while skilled Wasps were capturing flags one after another, using nothing but nitro. Skill is first - supplies are second.

 

Did you all ever noticed that increase of speed is of 30%? Why it is not doubled speed? 

Because the server is unable to handle double the normal speed. If you double the speed of Wasp M3, it will lag, glitch through walls and eventually trigger the anti-cheat system, which will kick the player from the game. A lot of problems are associated with double speed, which is why it's only a 30% increase.

 

Why we get ONLY a 20-25% increase for all those crystals? 

Because you get it permanently and never have to pay for it again. The overall improvement in your performance pays off that amount, so it's worth the price it is.

 

The process of bringing drugs to a +25% increase may be done gradually: a decrease of extra power and resistance to a max of 25-30% of extra, rather than double those features. This can be done gradually to let anyone get used to it, by reducing a 15-20% a week till the target. In this way it will probably not even noticed and it will be accepted by drug addicted.

Two issues:

1. The price of the supplies will be too high for the bonus it gives, so people will stop buying crystals to get supplies.
2. "Drug wars" won't be as fun anymore, so many enthusiastic supply users will lose interest towards the game.

Both of these points will have huge impact on the game's success, so I'm pretty sure that the developers will be against your suggestion.

 

As beaku said - you have the option to play PRO battles with no supplies. The 5000 crystals you have to pay per month are a completely reasonable price, considering that you can earn that amount back in 2 hours of gameplay. Why do you have to pay for playing without supplies? Well, as Like-a-boss said, druggers pay for drugs, so by playing PRO battles you save crystals by not spending supplies, so the devs make you pay for having that privilege.

 

Anyway, you should be thankful for the fact that every single item is available in the game to non-buying players, so the buyers don't get any kind of super overpowered special ammo, which is only purchasable for real money. You have access to every feature in the game, which you use and don't even donate to the developers as a thank you. I don't see why you're complaining.

[Maf 32,300]

P.S.

 

 

 

 

 

You used the word "drug" in your text 37 times. The official name for them is "supplies", so I strongly suggest you call them that instead of "drugs", as then people will take you more seriously. The reason they are referred to as drugs is because originally the icon on the repair (health) kit was a syringe, so people jokingly called that box a drug.

[masoud_b 678]

 

masoud_b thanks for comment

You said very right things! I only doubt about your money conclusions with respect to tanki.

As I wrote, non druggers (and non buyers or little buyers) actually give Tanki the critical mass (the sufficient number of players) to make the game interesting for everyone. Then, a percentage of that mass will be more keen on buying, giving money to support Tanki.

Also, Tanki money can come from materials and MUs too. Overall you can spend millions of cry to have the tanks or turrets or paints you want.

 

Lets remember that without the critical mass, Tanki would not exist and be as it is!

 

Still, I am not saying to eliminate drugs, but only to moderate their power. Thus giving a "plus" to everyone's skills and not a overwhelming excessive unstoppable power!

 

as i heard from players who payed tanki for about 3 or 4 years ago , in that time still player drug but not every where and every time

but now its almost impossible not to face a drugger in a day in battles

 

as you said , now its just about that who has more supplies , is the winner

who has experience but hasn't drug or doesn't want to use them could be the first in his team and get many score but he wont get so much cry

[masoud_b 678]

It amazes me how players of ranks as high as Marshal still complain about supply use in battles. You get 60 supplies every day FOR FREE, why are you complaining? Just create an alternate account, play with it and collect the everyday bonus on your main one. After a week of collection you are guaranteed to have over a 100 more of each supply.

Hi Mazfioza

its not about having no supplies or these things , that right also me in my rank everyday get some supplies but i wanted to play a battle for my self , with normal things not with using double power and 30 seconds later by pressing 2 getting a double armor

i have an alternative account , its rank is sergeant , and i have about 2k of each drug , does it mean that i should drug in battles and ruin the games and making kids go out ?

and also one more thing

you may not accept Brubook's complain because you said his rank is high and he gets enough supplies every day , ok then what a bout low ranks ? like a WO4 ? then what you say ? also we have players and they are not just 1 or 2 players , they are lieutenants , and most of them have the old m2 hull kit and also other kits like rico and mamoth m2 or thunder viking m2

they have those things but they continued drugging , what should players who face them do when they have only m1s and also they must face m2 which also powered by supplies ? dont you leave the game ?

 

It isn't, never was and never will be. Yes, supplies are a very strong temporary bonus to your tank's parameters, but the main deciding factor is still skill and strategy. I've seen games where Mammoths with full drugs were lying on their backs most of the time because they couldn't navigate the terrain properly, while skilled Wasps were capturing flags one after another, using nothing but nitro. Skill is first - supplies are second.

if you dont tell me that  im just a major and your skill and what you see in the game is so much more than me , i want to say again its not true , you just give an example , example is not anything

when noobs drug , you say ok he is a noob i will beat him and it will happen ( its just like that you say ok lets go to a map live wave , you bring m1 shaft , i bring m3 rail , the only reason which makes that shaft lose is that he may be a noob ! isn't it ? 

skill is first when druggers be noobs , but when they have  just a little skill not as much as you have , you will lose then

 

Because the server is unable to handle double the normal speed. If you double the speed of Wasp M3, it will lag, glitch through walls and eventually trigger the anti-cheat system, which will kick the player from the game. A lot of problems are associated with double speed, which is why it's only a 30% increase.

about this , its just totally right , also if player could have play with m3 or m4 hornet and they use double speed , its really hard to control it

 

Because you get it permanently and never have to pay for it again. The overall improvement in your performance pays off that amount, so it's worth the price it is.

i dont accept this , im a player who plays in small maps and he doesn't play long time battles also

when i was ranking from second lieutenant to third lieutenant , i got more than 100k , and also got i think just 1 goldbox ( but i saw about 8 goldboxes )

when i was ranking from captain to major , i must get more cry , yes ? i got only 68k crystal with 3 goldboxes ( i saw 5 goldboxes in that period )

i didn't change my style , i didn't play fire wasp , but why did it happen ?

tanki said we increase amount of crystals which gotten in battles because of removing the small crystal boxes

but is it exactly equal  amount of cry we get in  the time that we have crystal boxes ? in my style of play ( playing small maps and not long battles ) the answer is NO ! but for a player who plays polygon for about 1 or 2 hours, surely yes i got many crystals !

one more thing also , as i wrote , i see 8 goldboxes when i was a second lieutenant and i see 5 when i was a captain , it decreases !

 

i dont care about your answer about this issue cause the only person who could talk about these issues is Hazel-Rah, but the game is going to be for players who pay money to tanki , and now its not just about low ranks like me , i know a brigadier who bought 1M and 4K ( 1,400,000 crystals ) and now he also shows him self when he face generalissimo ! why ? he has micro upgraded his thunder and dictator at that rank !

also , if you buy crys you can have anything , if you dont , you must be sad in games that aaaa look at that guy he has 4 m2s but i have only 1 or 2 !

 

 

Two issues:

1. The price of the supplies will be too high for the bonus it gives, so people will stop buying crystals to get supplies.
2. "Drug wars" won't be as fun anymore, so many enthusiastic supply users will lose interest towards the game.

Both of these points will have huge impact on the game's success, so I'm pretty sure that the developers will be against your suggestion.

i told something  a drugger last page , why you expect that we buy pro pass ?! all of us know that how much crystal druggers spend on buying supplies also ! so why dont they make pro battles with drugs ?! this happens only when two players want to face each other with drug as duel cause they want to make a private battle

there is still no answer for my question ! druggers spend just 5k on pro battle pass and they play with supplies in them  , they get more crystal also cause it is a pro battle !

 

As beaku said - you have the option to play PRO battles with no supplies. The 5000 crystals you have to pay per month are a completely reasonable price, considering that you can earn that amount back in 2 hours of gameplay. Why do you have to pay for playing without supplies? Well, as Like-a-boss said, druggers pay for drugs, so by playing PRO battles you save crystals by not spending supplies, so the devs make you pay for having that privilege.

can you tell me how many players in ranks lower than brigadier  have pro battle pass ?! i see very very  rare players who has pro battle pass, what you say is not wrong but it has meaning in high ranks ! so what should low ranks do ? we must just watch them get score and steal battle crys

 

 

Anyway, you should be thankful for the fact that every single item is available in the game to non-buying players, so the buyers don't get any kind of super overpowered special ammo, which is only purchasable for real money. You have access to every feature in the game, which you use and don't even donate to the developers as a thank you. I don't see why you're complaining.

you must also be thankful for a buy button next to your score bar , cause you can spend money and get crystals so you could face druggers and also buyers with what they have and maybe more powerful than them !

you can access everything in game , yes when you become a generalissimo you can but before that you must always be upset and also angry from tanki and some times hate this game !

staff always think in the way that they are part of tanki , well it should be like this !

and also i never accept what moderators say about crystals ! why ? you as a moderator know the reason better than me

you cant understand these thing when you are an ordinary player , but when you are a moderator , things are different

 

for not making it so complicated i want to say just a little thing , no matter if we don't have any discount , mods spend million crystals in their garage for buying items , but a week later if you ask how many crystal do you have , he\she will say emmm about 500k !

you have no reason to involve yourself in these kind of issue , some day you were an ordinary player but now every one knows you as a MODERATOR !

 

- in last paragraph the word "you" is not only Mafioza , i mean all moderators -

-----------

who knows , maybe i get a ban finally for talking about mods job ! heh

[GurmitSingh 27]

*shrugs* Make pro pass cheap (About 1k), and everyone will start playing in it more.  :lol: From low ranks to high ranks, all will be happy :P If SMP can be cheaper, why not pro? But yes, skill is better than drugs as the moderator above said. 100%. Also, in team battles, your team members matter more than drugs. It doesn't matter how much you drug if your team sucks in playing. You'll still lose. 

 

OP is of high rank, he should just get a PRO Battle pass. Generalissimo rank is only 4 ranks away. Next rank onwards might be able to compete.