Reduce power of garage supplies

[Panther756 39]

 

Anyone in the actual game is forced to drug if he want to have a chance to win a battle, and a battle is definitely won by the more drugged team. Is really this the devs idea for the game? Is the all game a matter of pressing the right drug button? I hope not!

And if you add the heal button the thing gets even worse.

 

Anyway this makes the game a mere matter of drugs, which I hope it is not DEVS idea of the game! Right now if someone comes drugged to me, I know that I am dead if I don't drug too. No matter what rank or weapon! Very sad!

 

Right now I feel hopeless when I enter a battle ... it is not a good feeling and it will probably make me abandon this great game, if something doesn't change! And this idea is spreading on many and many Tanki players!

 

 

From one weapon or hull upgrade to another (M1 to M2 for example) the rise in characteristics is abt. 20-25%.

Using a drug actually hypotetically rise you of 4-5 level. A M2 weapon become M6 or M7 !!!!!

 

This is a terrible unbalancing of the game.

 

This makes it impossible any fair face to face between a drugger and one who is not.

 

This makes the game a matter of "drug = I win" or "no drug = I loose"

 

On the TO Newsletter and on the forum I have been reading thousands of words on strategy, "the best hull-turret combination", "how a specific weapon works", "how to organize a flag capture", and so on .... but the reality of the game now is: I DRUG = I WIN and I DON'T DRUG = I LOOSE. That is it! Sad, isn't it?

 

This makes the strategy "only with drugs I win"; this means anyone that wants to win has to drugs; this makes everyone drug; this makes the game both odd for drug-non drug comparison and even for drug-drug fight.

 

The purpose is (or should be) to rely more on skills and ability, strategy and better weapon use, rather than press a button or a desperate search of a power-up as the only "strategy" of playing.

The point is allowing a non-payer or a low-payer to enjoy the game too. This is apparently an anti-economic concept for Tanki, but it is the exact contrary instead. More players means more paying players in percentage and many players give a necessary base (critical mass) for the game to be interesting for everyone. It is a matter of numbers!

 

 

This is why I want to propose a suggestion for developers: a decrease of extra power and resistance to a max of 25-30% of extra (as it is for speed), rather than double those features, or make the drug effect to temporarily give the next level characteristics (like a drugged M1 to be like a M2 for a limited time).

This would also make people feel and try how is the weapon or hull on the next level on that feature.

 

Did you all ever noticed that increase of speed is of 30%? Why it is not doubled speed? Also the devs realised that double speed would be too much ... same as for other drugs!!! Power and resistance are pumped up too much!

Same thing for steps (M0 to M1, M1 to M2, M2 to M3). Did you all noticed that every step gives about 20-25% of increase in performances? Why? I mean a hunter M1 costs 29.900 crystals, a wasp M2 costs 102.700 crystals, a dictator M3 costs 223.000 crystals. Why we get ONLY a 20-25% increase for all those crystals? Probably to allow a range of ranks to play together. And why did they need to do that? Probably to have a balanced game.

 

The process of bringing drugs to a +25% increase may be done gradually: a decrease of extra power and resistance to a max of 25-30% of extra, rather than double those features. This can be done gradually to let anyone get used to it, by reducing a 15-20% a week till the target. In this way it will probably not even noticed and it will be accepted by drug addicted.

 

A non drug section would be also welcome (not a PAY one). If I have to pay to find non druggers, I will not have the crystal to buy tanks, turrets or upgrades!

 

I suggest a serious brain storming on this topic.

 

 

Thank you

 

I was just made aware of this chat. I fully support your view.

 

While I fully understand and accept that these guys need to make money, this - hopefully - will be a short-term thing. It destroys the game. Incapability wins as so often in life, when replaced by artificial ingredients.

 

Game? Is it still a game then or a booster for those desperately craving for superiority, which they may not find elsewhere.

 

I am refusing to drug. I simply leave the battle, where this occurs. The result is waste of money and satisfaction for the druggers. I am pitying these guys. Truly I do.

 

I am investing some real money from time to time, but limited. That is my acceptance that the game developers offer us some fun. They need recompensation. No difference to going to cinema or other leisure activity.

 

However, there are limitations for accepting all. Of course it is the choice of the player. But that may lead to the same notorious question as in real life: Who is the guilty party? Those offering drugs or those taking them?

 

When it is about making more profit, the sarcastic suggestion I make is that all boxes falling from sky should be stopped. If one wants such drugs they should pay for it. ;)

 

Nope, culture is also important and it has decisively gone down.

[RustyNail 1,538]

Who can guess why this is going to make it even worse?

As my name is involved I have to clarify for all those that have not read my opinion (or don't remember what was it) I never proposed a restriction in number of supplies per battle / 15 minutes etc.

In fact I think it's not worth trying to calculate every single minute how many of what supply is left to use in the specific battle.

It is more than necessary to decrease the total drugging time in battle or nerf their power (I prefer the first) and this can be accomplished by increasing the cooling period of supplies, a little. But more important is the elimination of supplies kits that provide big time buyers with tons of them.

Thus, maybe it is time to start thinking an alternative source of income.

And maybe you could stay and make a honest discussion with us, if you like .. our complain comes out of love for this game and not out of hate or indifference.

[creeperskelly 1,281]

The "Free Drugs for One Day" pass was amusing. I tried it solely for the purpose of observation and because it mimics what happens on the test servers.

 

If everyone has drugs then why have them in the first place?

 

Simple, really. A drugged Mammoth gets a bigger advantage than a drugged Wasp. And a drugged Railgun is always going to get a better deal from it than a drugged Firebird.

 

All is does is make the new imbalance from the last update even worse.

 

In fact I suspect the only reason for the recent "rebalance" was to make most turrets weaker so players would buy more supplies.

[Baby_Sam 614]

This is not what I asked  -_-

I know. I just told you what I wanted to tell you. :P

[creeperskelly 1,281]

Also as Panther pointed out in another thread: does anyone feel like that your hull or turret gets weaker in certain battles? Almost as if there's a secret algorithm at play here to try to incite you to drug?

[Opex-Rah 5,375]

I know. I just told you what I wanted to tell you. :P

Therefore I ignored it. You welcome.

[canadarules 1,938]

Therefore I ignored it. You welcome.

and i ignored you.. your welcome

[T.O.T.A.L.W.A.R 581]

I think the op should summarize all the suggestions made by the community in the first post in a spoiler ...

The topic has reached it's 36th page now and it's very hard to follow up with the suggestions.

[creeperskelly 1,281]

So much discussion - how hard would it be to simply make EN"X" all drug free battles? Just one server where drugging isn't allowed? Only drops and nothing else?

 

This neither infringes upon the rights of the developers to make money nor does it affect those who chose to drug and, it gives people the option to play clean battles without raiders.

[RustyNail 1,538]

So much discussion - how hard would it be to simply make EN"X" all drug free battles? Just one server where drugging isn't allowed? Only drops and nothing else?

 

This neither infringes upon the rights of the developers to make money nor does it affect those who chose to drug and, it gives people the option to play clean battles without raiders.

 

Very unlikely to happen because non druggers are absolutely necessary to druggers. If they (non druggers) play at one server without the druggers, then whom will the druggers slaughter?

Don't forget or think in another way, drugging is mostly a financial matter to Tanki HQ... not a technical one.

[Baby_Sam 614]

Therefore I ignored it. You welcome.

This is only a waste of time. You may be amused by watching us spin our wheels futilely. We do that when we are bored.

 

You have all the data you need whether from game stats or player opinions, and you once mentioned that you'd known that since forever.

You seem to be bored like us. Instead, do something about it.

[creeperskelly 1,281]

It has been pointed out that battles without drugs would be tedious.

 

I'd rather have a close battle of 2-1 than one where it is 20-0. Once the score gets high quickly people leave. People tend to stay in battles where the score is closer.

 

When the team who is winning by a large margin is still drugging and spawn camping with double power it is beyond the point of thinking about staying or leaving.

 

Perhaps the issue of having to have supplies is related to the tanks being too expensive in the first place.

 

When I ranked and saw the price of kits available to my rank I nearly crapped my pants. $100 USD for tank?

 

One of the supply kits available to me costs the equivalent of $33. It's no wonder one would choose one over the other.

[Opex-Rah 5,375]

Instead, do something about it.

I am, as long as I got my own ways.

 

Limiting supply stack for duration of a round is not working, but it is you who need to realize why. Your suggestions might become a little better if you solve this 'puzzle'.

[Baby_Sam 614]

I am, as long as I got my own ways.

 

Limiting supply stack for duration of a round is not working, but it is you who need to realize why. Your suggestions might become a little better if you solve this 'puzzle'.

I don't know why that doesn't work. It looks like a weird suggestion to me. I have never suggested it. I even think that cool-downs are silly.

 

I don't think you or I can come up with a good solution right away. I think the cool-downs should be removed, and the power of supplies should be taken down to 30% and their prices should be rebalanced based on statistical data. On top of that, having the 4 classes of battles supply-wise: no supplies, drop boxes, drop boxes and supplies with cool-downs, drop boxes and supplies without cool-downs is good enough (if you want to keep cool-downs). Though, I think the supply thing is such a big problem maybe these options should be made free, or offer different classes of PRO passes with different prices and privileges.

 

This is what I have. If you recognize the current situation as imperfect and you have a better solution, bring it on.

[RustyNail 1,538]

I  'm sick and tired of hammers with DP and DA on (constantly) and a health pack ready, that wander the map slaughtering everybody.

That's not a game, that's sadism online. You people that own this game, do something about it! :angry:

[MrsTankBuster2 141]

I don't know...things just seem to be getting worse.

 

Repair Kit after Repair Kit after Double Power after Double Power after Repair Kit after Repair Kit etc, ect, on and on...and this is at Master Sergeant level!!!!!!!!

 

I'll ask again, is there a supplies hack going around or something??? And I'm not talking about unlimited supplies day.

 

As for the odd cryptic comment thrown in by Hazel Rah - I don't think this a respectful way to communicate with customers/potential customers IMO. If you've got something to tell us or show us then just say it or do it.

 

There are a lot of people reading this thread and I would guess that some (like me) would just like to know the conclusions to any experiments or a straight answer to any proposals, rather than be asked to figure it out for ourselves...at least that the way the tone of this thread reads to me since the 500 crystal Pro Pass was tried.

[Dragon-Judgement 1,529]

When will people stop complaining about a built-in mechanic... someone tell me when.

It always seems like nobody's ever satisfied... we got drugs nerfed before with smart cooldowns, and yet people still complain.

[creeperskelly 1,281]

Because when you subsequently make changes to equipment that people already have then it makes the drugs affect the game in more negative ways than intended.

 

I agree with RustyNail - the sheer number of people I see in battle now with Hammer + Viking + 2+3+4 makes it unplayable. It's ridiculous that the only way to counter such a tank is to also spend $100 USD to get the same tank.

[Pathfinder 1,690]

Deleted

[Pathfinder 1,690]

Let's make an example

 

 

You start at 1st rank Recruit with hunter and smoky

 

- You enter battles limited to the first 9 ranks up to Sergeant-Major usually. Why? To give opponents the same chances to win, and to have balanced games!

- Your smoky cause 18.0-22.0 of damage and your hunter resist 100 of damage

 

 

DRUG

 

- If you drug you cause 36.0-44.0 of damage which is more than a SMOKY M3

- you can access a Smoky M3 at level Marshal .... 27 ranks higher than yours

 

 

So, why limit the battles to a rank range? Answer: to have balanced games!

 

And why give so much extra power (as 27 ranks higher) to a weapon? Answer: It is a clear UNBALANCING of game battle!

 

It is clear that with that extra power (+100%) there is absolutely impossible to win a fight if you don't get protection drug (+100% protection)

 

 

Also .... why speed is powered up of 30% only? Answer: that is the right increase and you realized it! A 100% increase would be too much, overhelming!

 

 

With drugs you let a 1st rank beat a 28th rank Marshall, just pressing a button or getting pick-up.

 

Is this the matter and strategy of the whole game? Press drug and heal buttons or look for pickups?

Today that is what anyone do, and the majority of players who don't shop or shop a little are always loosing games. This will soon end up with a final annoying feeling for the game and abandoning it by the greater part of players who are not constantly paying for drugs.

I think that you want TO to go better and better, but the "critical mass" of player (the number that allow you to handle the game running and interesting) will have enough of extra drugs power and probably abandon game!!

 

 

 

DRUG INCREASE OF POWER SHOULD NOT BE GREATER THAN THE NEXT UPGRADE PARAMETERS

 

Example: a Smoky M0 with drug should have 22.0-27.0 of power (M1 values) .... NO MORE

 

Your calculations are based on damage per shot, so you get an inaccurate result. If you take the firing rate into account, you'll find that an m0 smoky with double power does damage between m1-m2, not far off your ideal.

 

having said that, I agree to an extent, that drugs give the weapon or hull a Lot more power. Though I just want to point out that I have never had an issue with drug shortage - daily bonuses and wise usage is enough

[Dragon-Judgement 1,529]

I agree with RustyNail - the sheer number of people I see in battle now with Hammer + Viking + 2+3+4 makes it unplayable. It's ridiculous that the only way to counter such a tank is to also spend $100 USD to get the same tank.

LOL I can agree that the Hammer/Viking combo is a bit of a challenge, even for me! But what you claim as counter-action? I disagree totally.

[racer22_online 206]

My analysis of the 'unlimited' drugs day:

Maybe Tanki could confirm my findings with the actual stats?!

 

Reading around - I picked this up from another thread (and read it too late for May 9th!)

 

"Here's a hint: always get the DD (3) or DA (2) *before* you drop a mine, otherwise the cooldown screws you over.

And don't drop a mine if you think you're going to need a Repair (1) in the next 30 seconds."

 

I had never noticed the Mines cooldown messing up the use of the other drugs until May 9th - because I use drugs sparingly (except for Gold Boxes, getting revenge or when I'm on the losing side).  I can see why Tanki had to stop too many mines being placed all over and I'm glad they did (when driving fast on Nitro I hardly ever 'see' mines - only the burn mark in the ground afterwards.)

 

Just a reminder, I never use any drugs when my team is leading - I see that as 'unsporting' (I'm already on the strongest team - so why rub it in?)

 

The great thing about the unlimited drugs day is no-one complained about 'druggers'.

The sad thing was I noticed a massive increase in the number of frustrated tankers.  Lots of swearing and lots of unhappy tankers.

Possibly because it will take more than one day to learn to use the 1 to 5 keys reliably.  Too many times I had to take my eyes off the screen, usually with disastrous consequences.

 

However, my big compliant remains that too much drug use 'unbalances' the game and this prevents it being an interesting sport.

1.  'Unlimited drugs' meant the strong got stronger and the weak got weaker.

I.e. most games were heavy 'defeats' for the losing side - I saw hardly any balanced matches.

I found the weak side could not stay alive long enough to get the second health pack on!   While the leading (stronger) side has the luxury of time to be able to stay alive almost indefinitely (unless shafted).  Also if you don't die then your mines stay alive!  I did this myself to prove the point and completely mutilated the weaker team - no fun to me or them (very little skill involved).

2.  The amount of one shot kills delt to the losing side is 'decimating' to the point of being NO SPORT.  At this point the losing side just quits.

If your side quits, you have to go and find a 'slightly' better game (=winning side) or use an account at lower ranks where pure skill can still over-come raw power).  With my lower rank accounts I use hardly any drugs, and I ALWAYS join the losing team to make it fun.  I can mostly turn that team into a winning team by skill alone - (which is fun for me, but annoying to the team that was winning - can't please everybody!) (I wish these players had someway of knowing they were 'visited' by a much higher rank - 'jolly roger' flag on my tank would fix it. Or maybe we unoffically make it a rule that black paint always means a higher rank is using a lower rank acount).

 

Conclusion: as I predicted 'unlimited drugs' would be fun for a test - but no good long term (makes the game into a 'shoot-em-up' for the winning team and ruins the sport).

I was wrong about too many mines ruining the games, I did not realise how effective the mine smart cooldown is.

The long term answer to give us more balanced games:  simply to lengthen the smart cooldown time (maybe double, or triple etc., let this be a controllable OPTION on the game setup so Tanki does not have to 'guesstimate' what we like the best.)  Even better if the leading team is prevented from using garage drugs - this helps the losing team (weaker team) catch up and makes for a closer battle and better share of funds.

 

I.e. I believe we can live with drugs 'as is', by simply slowing down the frequency of garage drug use, (which stops them being so over-powering when abused.)  Just like air drop drugs are no problem because collecting them takes time and this slows down their use and makes them more tactical.

(Dare I say it: by slowing down the opportunity to use drugs then Tanki could even put the price of drugs up!  At last, this would be one decision that would please Free to Play users - because the increasing cost of drugs would cause FTP players no harm.)

[opidude 437]

Lol you know what those drugger's tanks are made of? Credit card :P

[Brubook 1,161]

Your calculations are based on damage per shot, so you get an inaccurate result. If you take the firing rate into account, you'll find that an m0 smoky with double power does damage between m1-m2, not far off your ideal.

 

having said that, I agree to an extent, that drugs give the weapon or hull a Lot more power. Though I just want to point out that I have never had an issue with drug shortage - daily bonuses and wise usage is enough

Dear kirby2008

Thank you for comment

 

I am used to talk with numbers. Please explain me your point with numbers.

 

Anyway, firing rate is valid only before blowing a tank. Many drugged turret can blow a tank in one shot, so no fire rate involved! Also, a double firing power even with reduced fire rate of the greater M, lead to an advantage greater than just the next M turret. Maybe it is not 27 ranks higher, but not a comparable next M upgrade only either.

Fire rate is also mainly a comparative value between different turrets.

 

Also, DD for example, could give a proportional decrease in fire rate too, but only if the added damage do not exceed +25-30% (same for fire rate, of course). Could be an idea!

 

No issue with drug shortage? So you don't sell any drug kit then? Are you sure of that? So why there are drug kit offers always on?

[Brubook 1,161]

When will people stop complaining about a built-in mechanic... someone tell me when.

It always seems like nobody's ever satisfied... we got drugs nerfed before with smart cooldowns, and yet people still complain.

Is really this your approach to discussions?

Is really this your concept of "customer care"?

 

Is the "built-in mechanics" something untouchable or unchangeable? Is it some kind of holy spirit we cannot discuss about?

 

I am not saying that every post here tells right things, yet I think it is worth and due to listen and take care of thoughts (excluding useless or offensive comments of course).

Some of the posts on this discussion are also clever, creative and suggest nice or "possible" ideas ... some of them might also be a solution to increase Tanki income (as the billboard commercials idea).

 

Give a bit of respect and consideration to people that say something for the only reason they do it is the love for a nice game!