New idea, Since garage drugs are only really needed by the weaker players, why not allow only the bottom 25% on the scoreboard to be allowed to use garage drugs. This even works in DM.

The addition of the 'space mode' option in Pro Mode battles will help Pro Mode regain some much needed popularity. It's fantastic fun. Just need a 'self righting' mechanism of some kind as accidents in space mode are very common. Loss of the Madness map is crazy - keep it as it is and just add a new one called Mad with the new arrangement. Most people will prefer the original Madness. With the new one if you fall off you will most probably die, too much like skyscrapers, with the old one jumping onto the ground floor was part of the fun. The imbalance in Standard Mode is worse than ever as users are forced to complete some missions with drugs. There is nothing to control the balance of drug usage on both sides. It is no problem if the losing side uses more drugs - however, in most battles it's the leading side that continues to use large amounts of drugs even when already winning. This is very dispiriting to the losing side, when the losing side quits, the winning side also ends up losing! Hence, we are all losing - even the sadists. At least TankiX seems to have a better supplies balance - just need to get this into TO because TankiX does not seem to be able to copy the quality of game play we get in TO. Or maybe Tanki is experimenting with TO to see how far we can be pushed in attempt to get more buyers who MUST buy supplies kits? However, I would expect the forums in 'Steam' to be telling it how it is, why play an obviously unfair game like Tanki_Online (pay to win), when there are lots of others to choose from. Paying for a small advantage is fair enough (and for cosmetic items) but as even Tanki admits giving one side the opportunity to be 4 times stronger than the other is crazy.

Wow - love the low gravity, well done Tanki. Keep the old Madness as is and call the new one Mad.

Are these updates mostly the work of Hazel Rah? I somehow think Cedric has no power? I think someone at Tanki should be holding their head in shame. TO is and should be one of the best games on the Internet. It has huge entertainment value and much better than any TV program. I.e. we get to take part and at very low cost (other than our time). TO also works very well as an eSport. (Note for reasons of good 'sport', garage drugs are not allowed in TO eSports! although I think 10 per 15 minutes, per tank would be be ok.) Without a critical mass of players TO is going to die. When TO decides to go against the community, as it has with the recent 'Mission' updates, then this runs a high risk of badly hurting it's future prospects. If all the hard core remaining tankers continue to buy Pro passes we may still be able to get some good games. My fear is that many will not bother once their Pro Pass expires next month. We have now seen that most Standard Games have become unbalanced 'drug fests', I believe only Hazel Rah and a minority of people like him think this is a good thing. Declining numbers of players will prove him wrong. If Hazel does anything more to 'nobble' Pro mode - then even more players will give up. If it's not Hazel doing this, then who can we blame? What's up with Tanki Management? If you think we will move to TX - you have to realize that TX is no where near cutting it. Pretty graphics cannot complete with good game play as we find in TO. At what point will Tanki management realize that TO is fundamentally better than TX? Maybe if Tanki no longer care about TO, why not not give TO to the players so we can make it great again? Once back at 100K players online TO can easily make money from advertising on the billboards without having to spoil the game in favour of buyers.

One of the causes of 'team' game imbalance is that it's easy for a player joining a battle to join the team that's already winning.I.e. most tankers know that by joining a winning team, this is the best way to gain crystals. By allowing players to be easily added to the winning team massively hurts the losing team from which it normally never recovers, thus ruining the game. e.g. we have a game with 10 slots per side. We have 8 per side at present and the score is 4 flags to 2. It's a 'no brainer' to join the side that already has 4 flags! So the leading team now has 9 players v 8. Any player looking at this match will now be put off joining the losing side because it's not a good use of time. Hence, the losing team loses by an even bigger margin. Had the incoming player been forced to join the losing side - this would have helped the losing side . (Obviously a few players will use 'Mult' second accounts to cheat this - but that's why we need 'Kick2' to help us get rid of low scoring tanks on the losing side). 2. Please consider this idea for allowing the use of garage supplies but preventing the leading side from using way more than the losing side which causes most of the imbalance at present, I believe this drug related imbalance is causing many tankers to leave Tanki_Online. Consider the leading side is allowed to use a max of 10 garage drugs per player more than the losing side. E.g. a battle of 8 V 8 - would mean that when the leading side has used 80 more garage drugs than the losing side, the leading side is automatically prevented from using more garage drugs until the losing side uses more garage drugs. This way the leading side is prevented from going into 'annihilation mode'. It will also mean massive amounts of garage drugs will be used in the first few minutes until the leading side has the 'handcuffs' put on. The losing side will have no such limits (apart from normal smart cool downs), this will also encourage the people with drugs to join the losing side and help balance the battle! (When the score is 'even', 'no handcuffs'.) This would also work in DM. I.e. the tankers in the top 20% of the leader board would be prevented from using garage drugs when they have used 10 more than the average drug use per 15 minutes. Thus in a 10 player DM, the leading 2 need to take care not to over drug or they will be 'handcuffed' by the average drug use of the other players. To show the 'status' the existing garage drug 'availability indicator' will have to 'grey out' when they have been 'handcuffed'.

Missions only in non Pro Mode (Standard Mode): Wow - what a bummer. I was so incensed that I had to read (skimmed) all the posts to this point - cost me an hour (and I ran out of up votes.) Good to see Brubook back. I agree with MAF that TO could see some problems with daily missions. BUT. We just got to the point where we had a decent selection of Pro Mode battles and now they have gone. Even Desert XP/BP DM has gone on RU1! (Take a look). I think we all found a way to exploit TO missions and now we've lost it ( typical TO reaction has been to 'throw the baby out with the bathwater'. All you had to do was ask us what would happen. The reason we need to have so many Pro Mode battles on offer is because with so many Pro Mode options it's much harder to find a battle combination / Map we like best. We need a 'critical mass' for Pro Mode to work - otherwise no-one will buy a Pro Mode pass. (It took over a year to get Pro Mode going well and then 1 day to lose it). It would have been much better to have prevented missions being done on small maps and with small numbers of players. Also collecting boxes above Major level is not very clever it's just time wasting - but we do it because we need the crystals for MU and supplies to fight in Standard Mode. We know that missions with decent rewards are a very valuable way to guide player behaviour. However, if TO simply want is to get players to drug more in standard battles and reduce the number of Pro Mode battles then TO have succeeded. (However, at great cost to the TO community - players will not play.) If you asked us to provide more interesting ideas for Missions that would not hurt game play and not hurt Pro Mode then I'm sure we will give you loads. Missions that rewarded playing every day was a success. The existing missions balance was helpful towards that. Now this is broken. I cannot play Standard Mode above Major for very long until Tanki fixes it that both teams get equal access to the same number of drugs. Same with DM - all tanks should have the same number of drugs available at the start of the battle - this would have a better balance. Having some tanks with 40 drugs per 15 minutes v someone with only 5 drugs per 15 minutes does not work very well for either party. It’s also not fair when the leading side has more players than the losing side - I have told you loads of times how to fix this. (At least 'some' players do not fight when they outnumber the weaker side - we need this to be compulsory. You should be able to swap sides to the weaker side without losing your points etc.) Why not have some special 'mission only' battles (in both Standard Mode and Pro Mode). Then at least we know why each tanker is there. E.g. alternate 5 mins defending the boxes and 5 min trying to collect the boxes (20 minutes battles), with a reward for being present from start to finish. Format battles like BP/XP should be encouraged as a mission earner (big kill targets) and it's good fun at the same time. Should be more format battles for all types of tank - we can tell you what we like best. E.g. XP/BP will all turrets would be good (parameters adjusted each month by TO based on stats). Everyone above Major could be given a chance to rent a tank combo to try their hand on a 'level playing field' Not sure what missions could be given to Izzys - maybe set up a hospital ward of sick tanks? With lots of ambush corners to zap aliens (bacteria) (MRSA) in the back. Without Pro Mode battle - I predict large numbers will stop playing. I don't think I will even bother doing missions any more - the chain is broken! (I have nothing to live for.)

It's not really fair on the login banner to say the feedback from the majority of the responder tankers "don't want any change" - what is true is that with the 2 recent experiments, most tankers said it made things worse (especially when spawning). Note, if you did a simple pole asking all tankers do you think garage supplies are causing an imbalance in the standard games: Yes / No, what do you think the result will be? My best guess is that over 80% will say Yes. Go and speak to the new 'Steam' users, most of whom are already confirming TO is an imbalanced pay to win game in standard mode (and most will probably never discover Pro Mode). This is causing players to leave. For the die hard players like me, we already know that Pro Mode battles are the best way to get a good battle 'right now'. The drugs imbalance in standard battles these days is very painful. I do note, if all tankers used Pro Mode then sales of supplies kits would go right down and this would hurt TO finances. Hence, we need either a way to get TO more money (e.g. advertising on the bill boards) or a way to balance the supplies usage so that sales of 'supply kits' are not lost. I actually think using a max of 10 garage supplies per 15 minutes per tank would solve the problem in both Pro Mode and Standard Mode (and keep the smart cool down process and timings as is.) This amount would suit me as a Free To Play player. In fact if TO made this change I would spend real money on a paint job! and because I believe in paying for my entertainment. At present I cannot recommend TO to anyone unless you have superhuman skills or masochistic tendencies. At present the 'main' imbalance in team games is caused by one side using e.g. 400 garage drugs per 15 minutes and the other side only using 100. The reason this happens is because the winning side fights amongst its-self to get the top spot which gets the most crystals - also the losing side cannot get at most of the air drop sites and so they die more often, plus lack of reward for losing means it's not worth using garage drugs. Hence, a massive imbalance and many 'rubbish' battles win or lose. We clearly need a 'control' that makes sure both sides have access to equal amounts of garage drugs. At present both sides would need to burn about 40 garage drugs per 15 minutes to do this. The Free To Play tankers cannot afford this (i.e. 80% of the players). New IDEA! Another method to consider is to say that the leading side can only use a max of 10 garage drugs per player more than the losing side. E.g. a battle of 8 V 8 - would mean when the leading side has used 80 more garage drugs than the losing side the leading side can no longer use garage drugs until the losing side uses more garage drugs. This way the leading side is prevented from going into 'annihilation mode'. It will also mean massive amounts of drugs used in the first few minutes until the leading side has the 'handcuffs' put on. The losing side will have no such limits (apart from normal smart cool downs), this will encourage the druggers to join the losing side and help balance the battle! (When the score is 'even', 'no handcuffs'.) This would also work in DM. I.e. the tankers in the top 20% of the leader board would be prevented from using garage drugs if they have used 10 more than the average drug use per 15 minutes. Thus in a 10 player DM, the leading 2 need to take care not to over drug or they will be 'handcuffed' by the average drug use of the other players. Obviously the existing garage drug 'availability indicator' will have to 'grey out' when they have been 'handcuffed'. Mines: Players who do not like these balancing handcuffs can still use full drugs via Pro Mode if they wish. (I did once see a Viking Izzy lay out a beautiful 'pattern' of mines around the flag, all precisely laid! This person must have used about 50 mines - it was a shame to end the game. Since my proposal would prevent this - I think a random drop box on both sides should allow the catcher unrestricted mine usage for that battle (although still subject to normal smart cool downs). More on Mines: By the way my M3.8 Wasp and even an M2 Wasp cannot 'see' mines especially when on Nitro. I have to play with no sound because I have to be alert to outside real world 'interruptions' so I cannot hear the 'mines'. I know it feels like fun to destroy a Wasp with mines - but my opinion is that TO should provide a better 'sight' of the mine so I get a chance to drive around it or hit the brakes. At present it's just a 'major bummer' and another reason why I get more fun from no drugs Pro Mode battles.

It's probably correct, that while the game had large numbers of players TO could afford to 'lose' many of them and happily take the money from sales of 'supplies kits' (just like cannabis dealers try to get you hooked). TO to it's credit has done a lot to diversify the options a buyer can buy - the only problem is: everyone knows that buying a 'supplies kit' is still the best value for money (bang per buck). What we probably have remaining is a core of players who love TO because we still get some good fun out of it - but we know the imbalance on the battlefield is causing too many poor games (=one sided games or in DM only the druggers dominate). So we have Pro Mode and this has become more popular and we get some good games from that, but it still lacks enough Pro players to give us a decent variety. Hence, standard mode is still important to get the full range of play and occasionally the big 'needle', 'fire fight' battles that I enjoy the most. It's relatively easy for TO to experiment with the smart cool down settings etc. - these are only 'parameters'. However, adjusting these parameters does not fix the imbalance problems (e.g. where one side uses 4 times more garage drugs than the other). All good games must have some 'team' balance otherwise there's no 'sport' in it. Of course by chance we do get some good battles where the non-druggers defeat a team full of druggers - but this is of course is not the norm. With this weekend experiment, using both my main tanks, I saw much more garage drug use on Saturday and then garage drugs appeared to be 'running out' on Sunday and many battles 'improved' (more balanced - looking at the points gained on each side.) This is proof that when the quantity of garage drugs in use goes down - this is a good thing. Players have to became more tactical. Note the effect on Saturday was very bad for FTP (Free To Play) players, because your meager stock of supplies effectively became 'devalued' and you had to use them up faster to keep up. I think the simplest technique (without much programming) to slow down garage drug use is to make the supplies kits very expensive. Consider if supplies kits were 4 times more expensive, then buying MU would start to look better value (or someone could do the maths and find where this point is?) The means the supplies provided via daily missions become more valuable and using them would be more 'considered' because they effectively cost so much more. This will again reduce the amount used per battle. Only the buyers with deep pockets (making up maybe less then 10% of players per battle) could afford heavy use. I.e. we get a better balance and we still get to keep the buyers happy. I.e. those of us with skills (most of us), can deal with 1 or 2 heavy druggers (except for the small number of very skilled heavy druggers.) With reduced garage drug use, most of us will see improved game play because teams will be more evenly matched. Please stop the situation of allowing the next player to join the team that is already ahead on points. At present any Tanker knows that joining a winning team is the best way to gain crystals. By allowing players to be added to the winning team hurts the losing team. e.g. we have a 10 per side game. We have 8 per side at present and the score is 4 flags to 2. It's a 'no brainer' (especially for Neanderthals) to join the side that already has 4 flags! So the leading team now has 9 players v 8. Any player looking at this match will put off joining the losing side because it's not a good use of time. Hence, the losing team now has less players and loses by an even bigger margin! Had the incoming player been forced to join the losing side - this would have helped the losing side catch up. (Obviously some players will use 'Mult' accounts to cheat this - but that's why we need 'Kick2' to help get rid of low scoring tanks). In DM the top 10% of players should be prevented from using garage drugs - this way the top players 'really' have to earn the top slots (and funny to see all the gold hunters try and stay out of the top slots so they can use drugs at gold box time!) It's now a stronger case to provide the count of garage drugs used per player on the scoreboard - this way in drug battles you can see who has not been trying hard enough. Conversely in DM and team battles we can see why some players have the top spots and which team gained too much 'unfair' advantage. When you see one side use 400 garage drugs per 15 minutes and the other side only use 100 - are you surprised by the result (disgusting, I call it). By not providing this 'stat' you are concealing the truth - this is 'censorship' - why not ask some buyers if providing this information would really hurt their feelings and cause them to stop spending? I suspect many will simply buy MU instead. (and Paint protection should never have been allowed over 35%). Even Gismo's don't have enough equipment to adjust to outflank such target(s). Please try this experiment: 'Program' each player to only have 10 garage drugs (of 'any' kind) per 15 minutes per tank - this makes the game fairer and affordable for all of us (even for FTP players). The smart cool down times are fine as they are. And please give us better and more spawn points (i.e. not on sniper alleys or camping points.) Shafts on DD have become way too powerful both for long range and arcade mode (especially against my Wasp!) Sorry for repeating many of my pleas, but I would like more people to support the idea of balancing out the power in each 'team' - then we get a better 'sport', (esport :0)

Wow just to confound things, on my Brigadier account Wasp / Rail on Skylark, I actually managed to win a DM for the first time at this level (only used 3 nitros for escape purposes.) (Some skill and lots of luck - see later) Also only about 20% of the opposition was drugging (1 Dictator could not turn his turret - hence, defeated 4 times by 'encircling'). So maybe things aren't so bad once in a while - indeed, this battle was probably proof that reduced garage drugging is the key to letting a few skills shine though. On the other hand MANY of my recent battles at all levels have been 'appalling' 'garage drug' fests - it will be good to see what the Steam users conclude - I doubt many of them will enjoy being beaten up so badly, where's the fun in that? Do note, it's amazing still to be saying that the 'play-ability' of the TO environment is way superior to TX - partly because my Alienware gaming laptop i7 PC is not powerful enough for TX. Also flashplayer11 is working reliably for me. Just the 'no reason' self-destructs of my Wasp remains an annoyance - perhaps 1 in 20 battles. So, what about those with poor skills and lots of money? Has to be said TO has done lots to give them advantages without buying garage drugs. It's just we all know that 'supplies kits' are the 'cheapest' form of advantage. The question is will they buy MU and Premium instead of Supplies kits if drugging was made more 'controlled' in DM and 'balanced' in team games (equal limits to both sides)? The answer is for TO to try a live experiment say for a week and ask the buyers if it affects their spending. You may be surprised to find that players like me will reward TO by spending real money on cosmetic (non performance items) like paint, therefore revenues will not be affected. One automatic variable garage drug limit method is to prevent the leading team using more then 10 more garage drugs than the losing team! This dynamically controls the number of drugs in use and prevents the leading team from over abusing the losing team. However, if both sides are full of druggers then that's fine - I will accept that as a dynamic variable, and effectively controlled by the players in that battle. I think most people have a 'feeling' for any game or sport, is this game fair? Does the best player have the best chance of winning? By the way no wonder the Railgun is such a pain to use - it's like a russian roulette revolver. It's so 'unreliable' e.g. at M2.7 - I get a range of damage between 190 (no DD and v protection paint) and 2100 (with DD)! I.e. just by being 'un-luckly' I can hit someone 8 times and not kill them - or hit 8 tanks and get no kills. Then again if I get 'lucky' I go around one-shotting everything and 2 shots for a mammy! No skill in that then. No wonder this gun gets an 'alteration' to help fix this, i.e. truly making it a 'Pro' gun if you can afford it. Hence, BP/XP is always the best place for this gun - in standard games it's hard to get a decent cat and mouse fight with another Railgun - either you kill them easily or they kill you easily or a drugged Hammer/Thunder one-shots you in the back. Hence, you end up keeping away from everything, even people on your own side (one nudge and you miss your shot, usually means instant death). By the way Highways is now a joke for a Wasp - unless you use a Shaft. It used to fine as it was until Shafts were buffed. The way it is now the spawn points need putting on the lower ground level.

Some good questions and answers - I like your summary text. TO remains a good game but could do a lot better in the 'fair play' department. The heavy sense of 'unfair' play probably causes many to leave. I know we can play XP/BP where we do get fair play but that does not 'vary' enough, so I still need the standard game (for each level of my Alt. accounts). E.g. I would like added a special BP/XP format with Wasps and Hornets and ANY turret (using a 'balanced' MU setup etc. as is done for BP/XP). I recommend Hazel should add to his list of games played the game of Chess! In Chess if ONE side was given 2 queens in place of the rooks (i.e. gets 3 queens) - this is how it is in many team battles in TO. I.e. not balanced and not fair; the losing side soon know it and can do nothing about the poor score line. By simply recording on the score sheet how many Garage drugs each player used will make it obvious what happened and who was to blame. The only reason you don't do this is because it embarrasses some players. If you try this as an experiment (after all it's the truth) you may find this slows down garage drug use in a voluntary manner (I know we always get some idiots, zombies, kids etc. who will abuse the drugs - but not so many. The reason garage drug battles (and now most standard battles (above Major level)) switch to become so one sided is because the leading team also gains control of most of the air drop zones. And worse the losing side mostly refuse to drug because it's not worth it. The smart cool down process is fine as is - we just need a sensible max limit to garage drug use per side or per player to stop the abuse particularly on the leading side (or by finding ways to boost the losing side.) One simple (and small) idea I've not seen anyone suggest ;0) is to note that when 2 sides have equal numbers of players where player slots are still available - the crazy thing is that the next player can join the leading side! This of course helps the leading side and makes life much harder for the losing side. Please do an 'experiment' making it only possible to join the losing side when side numbers are equal. This should help the losing side catch up a bit. I also suggest giving Kick2 an experiment - I know some might get annoyed at being kicked - but who knows we might find nearly everyone loves the idea - e.g. we accept getting a parking ticket is part of life from time to time. I.e. under performing in TO will remind players that the scoreboard is where it's at and not camping in low scoring places or otherwise not making an effort (or multing). In the 'fair play' department - some tanks at the higher levels have become 'nightmares'; with 50% protection against my gun, and using DA and DD and RK. I.e. certain tanks I can only 'run away' from because I have zero chance of taking them down (mostly Hammers). If I meet 3 of these in a battle I have no choice but to leave the battle! I once managed to push one off a bridge and it landed upside down - we both got bored while I tried to kill it even with DD on! (Also they can self destruct faster than I can kill them - shooting them should restart the self destruct timer at least once!) Because we cannot take the 50% protection away from these 'mega tanks' - I suggest automatically upping the power of the guns that face them to effectively give the 'mega tank' only 35% protection. This makes it worth attacking them - otherwise there is no game - might as well go head-but a tree. If Mammoths think they have a hard time with Wasps pushing them - you try using a Wasp / Rail short to medium range v Twins, Hammer, Smokey, Vulcan, Thunder, Shaft, the Wasp has been 'programmed' to 'turn' uncontrollably to the side on being hit (you can feel the physics have been 'messed up' unrealistically). I.e. the Railgun / Wasp is forced into hide and seek missions (which lack variety) - CTF and DM are 'messed up' in standard games for Wasp / Rail, unless we get a big map - funny how Berlin and Dusseldorf are not being used by anyone at present. No wonder most Railguns end up on permanent DD and this annoys nearly everyone. Please reduce this 'hit turning' effect by 50% and I promise to use less DD! When a Thunder self destructs on the end on my Railgun while I wait for the blasted thing (my Railgun) to reload - why can't I get a kill for that? I.e. the last tank that shoots a tank that self destructs should get the kill. Please test this.

48hr experiment: Tanki Online are to be applauded for this for several reasons. It's been a frustrating wait to see any experiment done on the over use of garage drugs. The real dilemma for TO is how to keep some tankers spending on garage drugs (buyers) (the life blood of TO) without upsetting the Free To Play (FTP) tankers too much. It's great to see it recognised by TO that too much garage drug use does indeed cause problems (imbalance) in the game. We see cries of 'drugger' all the time because of the frustration caused (unfairness). Hence, this experiment is a move in the right direction. However, it will not stop the cries of 'drugger' - because drugging unfairness has not been fixed. Many people have noted that delaying the use of DA on spawn does cause problems at certain spawn points - I recommend more spawn points to make 'spawn camping' less productive. Also maybe allowing nitro to be used immediately on spawn would facilitate an 'escape'. Also some spawn points e.g. 4 on the map 'Brest' are located on 'snipers ally' and should be moved. This experiment did reduce garage drug use a bit but is still not tactical enough. I.e. the simple strategy remains to use DD or DA as much as you can. The losing team will still not use up their garage drugs because it's a waste - and this has always added to the imbalance. You could try counting the number of 'spawn deaths' to find all the bad locations. My preferred garage drugs solution: I would prefer an 'allowance' per tank of 10 garage drugs per 15 minutes. This way you have to think about how best to use them. I.e. some will 'save' them for moments of danger, or a flag run, or a final flurry at the end. Some will use them all in the first 5 minutes! And some will find they used none. This 'allowance' method makes it clear that both sides have equal amounts of garage drugs on each side, I accept that most Free To Play (FTP) users are short of RK and Mines. At present it’s very common to see one side use way more garage drugs than the other and in DM the top 3 players are nearly always druggers. At the rate of 10 garage drugs per 15 minutes this is affordable even for FTP players. However, I think even better if we set a variable number per 15 minutes in the map create screen, (minimum 10 per 15 minutes) then users get to choose the rate and not TO. By the way any 'rating system' you invent will always be messed up because people who use too many garage drugs have too much advantage. An 'allowance' as stated above puts everyone on a more level playing field, so the ratings will make more sense. However, do note that regularly joining a loosing side will also mess up your rating. I think the losing side should be given some advantages. How about the losing side being given no garage drug limits. Most players on the losing side will still not use garage drugs but at least 1 or 2 will try. TO are also to be applauded for making the Pro pass easier to get hold of at each rank, as a result we get more Pro battles and many of these have no garage drugs or full drugs depending on player choice (just the way it should be). I note XP/BP games can be outstanding tests of skill - just lacks variety. Standard mode is the best for variety. My take on the rating system is that it should be a count of points earnt per hour. Try this and see how it looks. This helps those of us who cannot play so many hours. Or make this an 'extra stat' just because I asked nicely :0) or how about count the number of top 3 places won per hour played. This would also make joining the losing side more attractive. Obviously, games with less than 6 tanks per side at the end cannot be counted. Maybe only count the 1st places on the smaller maps with 4v4 as the minimum at the end. All of the above suggestions should not interfere with the 'buying tankers' who will still gain enough advantage (more RK's and better protection) to make spending money worthwhile. By legitimising garage drug use (e.g. 10 per tank per 15 minutes) and allowing unlimited use on the losing side may in fact increase sales of garage drugs. Try it for 48 hours and see. Failing the above that just experiment with increasing the cool down time and nothing else (at least allow DA and Nitro on re-spawn).

Ace.

I think DM Tournaments have been a great success for a first attempt. Lessons learnt: 1. Should be some battles for the Americas Timezone - not been an issue for me in the UK. 2. The stats should show the 15 minutes drops only battles to be the most popular. But good to keep experimenting with the others. Please show us the stats. 3. Not at all clear how the rating is calculated - hence, I don't use my Gismo account because I need to know if history of bad battles ever get erased? I would like it to keep say your last 10 battles. I thought history would erase at the lower ranks each time you ranked up - the idea being to get a fresh start - however, I can see history is being retained. The reason history needs to be erased is because I sometimes 'experiment' on some maps where my tank combo is not so good. Looking at the Profile Ratings page seems to indicate that history is not retained for public view longer than 7 days (14 days) - i.e. you start each week afresh. 4. Why do we have to wait so long to get into a battle - 5 minutes is too long - I want to be moving my tank in the warm up otherwise I get bored - 2 or 3 minutes max to setup the battles. Once my tank even sat frozen for almost all the warm-up.

Here's a money making idea for Tanki: As I understand it Premium customers no longer get 15% protection against all turrets. It maybe that TO will fix this by adding back a new module for Premium to use with 15% against all turrets? In addition Premium users could be allowed to create a 4 slot module in any combination they like, which they can use only while they have Premium membership. (More money from Premium users will pay for my other demands (e.g. increase in cost of 'Supplies Kits')).

I really like the setup for these DM Tournaments, can't wait to play one - I see this as really good progress from Tanki. A bit like how we wanted the 'Go Pro club' to be. But this is even better with something for everyone, allowing different battlefield setups, some with garage drugs and some without and good variations on Maps etc. Tanki will soon get the stats on what we like best, please could Tanki publish them? I think it will be easy to see that the zero garage drug games will be the most popular (I still prefer 10 garage drugs per 15 mins :0) One day - I can see this idea being extended to the 'team' games. I've long been of the opinion that standard battles should be seen as a 'training ground' and designed to make money for the game. Nothing wrong with this, we have to finance the TO team one way or another. (However, I still think Tanki should get some cash from advertising on the bill boards - this way they will be able to afford to put the price of 'Supplies Kits' up to reduce their attractiveness and be willing to put the number of garage drugs used by each tank on the scoreboard.) By the way, I love the spectator mode in Tanki X, why not allow this in TO? (say with just one slot 'first come first served'), then we can watch some of the DM Tournaments, or maybe TO can stream them? Why not publish the results of each tournament and the equipment used by each player? I think that all Protection modules should never be allowed to go over 35%. In my experience once you get over 35% at Gismo level then the balance between tanks gets too messed up - either you win too easily or you lose very badly (zero cat and mouse games like we get in XP / BP (except for the one shot kills that now ruin it for Wasps). As I now understand it all current new M3 protections start at 35% and can be upgraded to 50% - this is too high. 35% should be the max. I'm not surprised that AZ finds it impossible to decide which turret to use - either you win too easily of you lose badly - no fun in either scenario. Max 35% protection would help a lot. Ask Tankers via a poll. BP / XP potentially remains the best 'cat and mouse' game - sadly the increase in one shot kills on Wasps is bad. This means all Hornets target Wasps as a first priority (you never thought of that did you) - it's no surprise that the number of Wasps is going down. Also BP battles (Wasps only) are ruined because by 'chance alone' you get killed in one shot - IMHO the game works best if we effectively have 2 lives - this also gives you a chance to get out of the spawn points. While 'chance' will always play a part in most sports, I find it very boring when the game has too much dependence on the throw of a dice (i.e. mostly caused in this case by the variable rail gun dpm). I want XP / BP games where we can have more or less equal equipment and it's our skill at using it (and the map) that makes the difference. Use the game stats to make the judgement while I save up for an M3 Hornet!

I like the paint separation because we should be able to choose our paint independently of our protection. I think some of the paint is too expensive - but this is 'marketing' and it's easier to bring the price down in future than put it up and easier to have 'offers' once in a while. and it's good to be able to use holiday paint from time to time. It's annoying that some existing users get to keep their 50% protections - while new users cannot get it. Max 35% should be the rule for ALL. I would take a vote on it and if Tankers agree that max 35% is the limit then anyone with over 35% should have it removed, this helps balance the battlefield. Why should the most skilled players also have the most protection? The new system of max 3 protections makes sense if starting from scratch - but not good mixed in with those tankers who have 4 protections. Perhaps we could have a module where we can build 4 protections in any combination ourselves. Then I could put together 5 or more modules with any 4 combinations up to 35% on each. I don't see why protection from Mine could not be added to any of my Modules if I choose. This way I would be able to switch modules depending on what's happening on the battlefield - switching should still require a re-spawn. It surprises me that there's so much bad reaction to this update. To me it's an improvement, with only a few gripes. TO is still a good game and Cedric is doing a top job. The new DM Tournament looks to be a good idea. I still want AZ's Kick2 to fix Mults in the standard game (just try it for a week and ask the tankers to judge via a poll.) Reducing the use of Garage drugs to say 10 per 15 mins - this would be the icing on the cake to me. and to record how many garage drugs each player used on the scoreboard - this should be seen as the 'truth' and not an 'embarrassment'. Try both of these options on random days each month - I believe they will be popular and bring about more of the close battles we like the best. I believe most tankers quit this game because of the lack of balance in many games. Why not ask the leavers for their opinion? No1 cause of imbalance is the sales of Supplies Kits - way too cheap, compared to the cost of MU but Tanki needs new revenue streams to make up for the loss of these sales. Another way to have fun in TO is to use an Alt at WO and Lieutenant level etc. Most of the time you need no garage drugs to help a losing side back into the game and of course you get all the glory as top player. I still want a 'skull and cross bones' paint job (Jolly Roger) that only Gismos can buy to use on an alt tank - this way the lower ranks know what's going on. or play DM XP / BP on Desert to build your skills (RU1) (however, I'm a bit concerned that Wasp can now be one shotted with only 10% protection - can Tanki show the scoring stats for BP / XP Wasp v Hornet)? I think Wasp should be put back to 15% protection - otherwise, I'll have to buy a Hornet with 20% protection.

Sorry to be late to this 'C' key question. AZ is right - we can swap keys in Windows with a program like: Download Autohotkey and create a script as follows: c::r r::c " The C key has great value for some players depending on the circumstances: 1. Lower ranks will find the slow turret speed irritating - the C key saves effort getting it back to forward facing. 2. Driving a Wasp (and maybe a Hornet) on Nitro - particularly an M4 Wasp on maps like Skyscrappers needs accurate cornering - easier if your turret is straight. 3. Shooting with a fast firing Rico on a Wasp is an issue because every shot with the turret not straight pushes the tank off line forcing an aim correction. I.e. I can shoot on target twice as fast with the Rico inline - this is life or death stuff! (It takes skill to work out the best compromise - because close up hand to hand fighting will mostly benefit from the turret turned, and when hiding behind objects). 4. Some jumps from height and some parkour jumps require no sideways deflection - knowing the turret is dead straight can be a big help. 5. With bigger tanks and when I'm using a Rail will mean I use the C key much less often. 6. What matters is the scoreboard, or the stopwatch, or the audience - depends what your trying to do - it's your choice. 7. The downside of moving fingers on the keyboard is dangerous - anyone ever caught the 'windows key' and shutdown the computer! 8. Ideally we would have some switches on our toes, head, mouth, knees.... 9. However, I stopped having mines on my foot (I used too many mines from too many knee-jerk reactions!)

This is a great update. :0) (I only hope it's not adding to the dreadful increase in server lag we've seen in the last week?) We did ask for this for a number of reasons: No1, we can now choose the cosmetic look of our tank - to suit our mood, camouflage, lots of reasons. No2, we can wear holiday paint without being totally exposed! No3. we can choose are protection module and even mine protection. No4. we no longer have lost crystals in paints we can no longer use. No5, in XP/BP battles we will have less tanks wearing Forester. I think Tanki are right to force us to pick a module for battle and we can change module during battle for the cost of one re-spawn and about 40 seconds. This means even the wealthy and Gismos will have some weakness in their armor. We will have to choose modules carefully through the mid ranks to save from wasting crystals. No6, and probably the best reason for the update, more tankers will buy paints and modules with real money - this helps Tanki stay in business. and the more money Tanki has the better the game will be and the less dependent they will be on sales of Supplies Kits. At present sales of supplies kits causes 'unbalance' on the battlefield because not all players can afford to use garage drugs full time and nothing in Tanki balances garage drug use for each side, i.e. in garage drugs battles one side simply uses more than the other - so the losing side quits. Garage drugs battles are HardStyle fights which most often quickly flip into one sided battles with the losers being spawn killed and unable to get to the drop zones. HardStyle fights do not suit Wasps - they do favour Vikings. The sooner Tanki can afford to lose sales by increasing the price of Supplies Kits - the sooner we get more of the relatively balanced battles we enjoy the most. Or ideally Tanki would show the amount of garage drugs used by each player on the scoreboard and so embarrass the over-users. Sadly this will also cause sales of Supplies Kits to go down and hence, Tanki needs enough money from other sources to be able to do this. Even more ideally: - we limit all tanks to 10 drugs per 15 minutes - I think this is the best compromise and will lead to good strategic decision making in the use of your garage drugs. To test these ideas out, make these last 2 ideas into OPTIONS on battle setup on random days each week - and just see how popular they are? In fact if Tanki do either of the above ideas - then I will buy Tiger paint with real money!

To try and answer Elizabeth122 I appreciate that we should move all drugs discussion to the forum place we reserve for this: Drugs - the only today stratergy to win a battle. I won't post on drugs in here after this post but I feel Elizabeth's viewpoint needs to be answered. Indeed it is possible to get to Gismo without spending money and have lots of fun on the way. However, every time you face a winning side or player in DM that uses way more drugs than the losers - it's natural for players to think and this is not a fair game and we lose many players because of this. I.e. the Tanki standard game is more like life in a dog eat dog world (e.g. anyone fancy entering the Tour De France against Lance Armstrong!) I have seen no evidence in the forum of anyone (apart from trolls) wanting to harm Tanki by reducing Tanki income, 'everyone' apart from sycophants, is trying to help find solutions to the problems we see on the battlefield. The reason the forum thread "Drugs - the only today stratergy to win a battle" is so massive is because the issue of drug misuse by certain players will not go away and the accusation of "drugger" or "cheat" will keep happening and many tankers will continue to quit the game in disgust (which is bad for Tanki income - 'bums on seats' is important even if they do not pay). Most Tankers recognise 'unfairness' when they see it, we have all seen good battles from time to time with a good balance and we want more of this (=gg). The problem is that in most battles the winning side will often use anywhere between 2 and 10 times the number of 'garage drugs' used by the losing side. DM is the same. The good battles tend to be those where the amount of drugging on both sides is fairly even. It's a bit like one side in football paying to force the weaker side to have a wider goal. Or in golf some players paying to have a bigger hole to aim at. or in cycle racing to have some teams paying to have electric motors attached to make it easier to win (or blood transfusions.) In Tanki to make eSports 'fair' the first thing they do is remove the garage drugs (at present they do not have an option to enforce equal amounts of garage drugs per side except via HardStyle.) I do note that eSports are willing to 'consider' a max of 10 drugs per tank per side per 15 minutes. With HardStyle matches, both sides have access to 'unlimited' drugs - this is fair but not good for light tanks. A bigger problem with HardStyle is that the matches quickly 'flip' one sided - with the better side quickly 'owning' the air drop zones and indulging in spawn killing. Nobody has disputed that in the current game Tanki does in fact depend on the sale of 'Supplies Kits' for it's existence. and it's natural that Tanki defends this position. Hence, I see 2 ways forward: 1. To help Tanki find alternative ways for gaining income or ways to help level the battle field without hurting sales of 'Supplies Kits'. See spoiler below. 2. To encourage the use of Pro Mode and make eSport competitions and battles easier to access from time to time for all ranks. I note that Tanki has tried to diversify income via sales of equipment, MU, the use of premium accounts and sales of XT tanks, however, nothing has come close to reducing the dependence on sales of 'Supplies Kits'. Cedric has been kind enough to put forward my suggestions to the developers - which is more progress than I have seen in a year and is a good sign. In the current game I think it's best to view the standard battlefield as a 'training ground'. This way, win or lose, you can gradually gain skills and learn how to defeat more powerful tanks than yourself. To give lower ranks 'hope', I've played for 1.5 years to get to Gismo skill level and now find that my alt tanks up to Major level can defeat any opposition using air drops and skills alone - proving that it can be done. Above Major level you get many more one sided battles and you will see more 'clan take over raids', at this point you have to decide to use your supplies or quit bad games or only join leading sides. (I never enjoy killing a tank that has no supplies when I'm 'fully loaded' (no sport in that) unless both tanks have 'equal' access to the same number of garage supplies). To help find Pro Mode battles - please search on the forum for 'Go Pro Club' - this is an attempt to get more players setting up Pro Mode matches to a set of rules. Only when we get 'critical mass' at all ranks will this be able to self perpetuate. If Tanki did more to encourage the Go Pro club then I would happily buy a Premium account or an XT tank, or just buy crystals and not use them - because I believe it's fair to pay for my entertainment (mainly because I'm an old git). The reason I cannot buy 'Supplies Kits' is because this gives me an unfair advantage = unsporting behaviour. However, for younger children and those with less skills the use of supplies kits is fair play in my book. However, when skilled players and clan players use supplies kits - they can devastate a game in a very belligerent fashion - which will often cause the losing side to quit. From my point of view I would like Pro Mode to allow setting up of matches where each tank is limited to Max 10 garage drugs per 15 minutes (ideally the '10' number would be a 'variable' on match setup). The point of this is that it's fun (tactical) trying to make best use of your 'ration' and gives a 'potential' level playing field. It's encouraging that Cedric is keen on creating more eSport games to allow us to put our 'training' to the test. For some 'variety' it would be good if the sides have an 'equal' mix of big tanks and small tanks and maybe max 2 izzys per side. E.g. 6v6 - 2 large tanks, 2 small tanks and 2 Izzys. (Hunter can be classed as large or small!) It think it would be good to encourage Pro Pass ownership by requiring ownership of a Pro Pass before entering any competition battles and maybe requiring the payment of some crystals for each competition battle played (related to rank.) To help level the playing field for these competitions, it's probably best if all tanks have MU removed and be all M0 or all M1 etc. It might even be important that a paint with no protection is used - this way the whole team can be the same colour, contrasting with the opposition (as in football and helpful to the spectators.)

Hello Cedric - perfect start. Sorry for the length of my questions - this is because we do not get many direct answers out of Tanki Management. By the way Damn_Slow has been very helpful in at least trying to answer these issues - just I would like you to be made aware of them. I think the biggest problem in Tanki are the causes of some 'imbalances' on the battlefield. I believe Tanki programming could help improve on this. Imbalances caused by skill level - we can do nothing about this at present and is not the main issue. (However, Tanki has no decent measure of 'Skill' - Hence, I proposed a sort of 'Golfing handicap rating' in other posts. As in Golf, the lower your handicap rating the better you are - if you want to know more about how this could be implemented for 'some' battles - just ask.) Tanki spends hours analysing the stats and adjusting the tank parameters to allow good tank balance and this works well for the eSport games. However, most users do not have a Pro Pass and as a result many do not have access to the eSport type of 'balanced' games. You may note that one of the biggest forum threads is (300 pages) - "Drugs - the only today stratergy to win a battle". In here you will find all the views under the sun against the use of garage supplies (drugs) and views in favour of the current standard battles and everything in between. and yes we know that Tanki depends on the sales of 'Supplies Kits' for it's very existance (none of us wish to hurt Tanki.) However, 'where there is a will there is a way' to make improvements without losing income for Tanki: 1. The biggest problem I see is certain tankers over-using garage drugs while on the winning side and the problem gets worse at the higher ranks. (The losing side do not use many garage drugs because there is no pay back from doing so - which makes the imbalance even worse.) To solve this - 2 things can be easily done to help: a, either stop ALL the leading side from using Air drops on maybe the top 25% on the leading side (this even works in DM). b, stop the leading side (or leading 25%) from using health packs. (In DM stop the leading 25% from using health packs). Always implement these ideas as map 'create' OPTIONS - this way the tankers get to choose what they like best and not Tanki. I predict doing these options will not harm sales of 'Supplies Kits' but it will slow down the leading team and give the weaker team more of a chance. Please note at present many of the best players choose only to join the leading side because this gets more earnings - this also makes the imbalance worse (if I can do this then I know it's easy to do.) Doing the above will make the losing side more 'attractive' and bring about closer battles which we enjoy the most (i.e. we need to encourage more of the best players to join the losing side). Why not test both of these ideas? (For the record - I prefer to join the losing side because on the occasions when a losing side becomes a winning side this is when I sometimes see the best fighting - unless it's a 'clan raid' - more anon...) 2. The spawn locations on most maps are too predictable - this causes the leading side to do too much spawn killing, thus preventing the weaker side from getting back on terms. A more intelligent spawn algorithm could easily place the weaker players in better (or random) locations. Why not test this idea? The above 2 points will help to weaken the effect of Clan type 'raids' - if you play long enough then you will know what this means. At present most tankers on the losing side just quit the battle and thus we lose the chance for a great firefight. Even the Clan raiders get annoyed by the 'quitters' because they like a good fight too. 3. It should be possible to have 'random days' (announced in advance) each month when all standard battles are fought to either eSport rules or HardStyle rules. (The former are good for light tanks and the latter good for heavy tanks.) Why not test this idea? 4. If you know what the Go Pro Club is then please lend your support to help it grow (search the forum on 'Go Pro Club') Pro Mode passes should be made cheaper relative to each rank so more tankers can use it. Be aware that if Pro Mode was free or very cheap (70 crystals per month) then > 90% of battles would be Pro Mode. Hence, Tanki should vary the price of the Pro Mode pass each month to keep the number of Pro Mode battles averaging no more than say 50%. Why not test this idea? If you do all the above then Tanki will probably attract at least 4 times the number of long term players and thus increase the revenue earning opportunities (advertising). Why not put advertising on the bill boards in the game to help pay for the game? Imagine what CocoCola or any big global corp would pay to be seen? Why not test this idea? 5. Ask Lego to make Tanki 'tanks' of various sizes and complexity - the sales would be in the millions! and TO just collect a royalty for very little work. Why not test this idea? 6. This item is for a better balance of drug usage. Please note that Smart Cooldowns were only one solution to the over use of garage drugs problem. Instead a limit of 10 garage drugs per 15 minutes per tank could have been implemented. This would have at least meant both sides had an equal chance to use the same amount (and in DM.) At present the winning side uses way more than the other. If 1 in 10 battles showed the total number of drugs used per player on the scoreboard - this would be very interesting and honest! The reason for the 1 in 10 is because if it was 100% then it would cause too many of the tankers that prefer to use huge numbers of drugs to be embarrassed and sales of 'Supplies Kits' would go down. (However, 1 in 10 we could all make make our own judgement who the best player was.) Ideally, this should be OPTION on Battle 'create' so the Tankers get to choose if they like this or not. In Pro Mode we could make it an OPTION to choose the max number of drugs per tank per 15 minutes as a 'variable'. Why not test this idea? All these point are aimed at keeping everyone happy: I.e. Tanki is happy because sales of supplies kits should not go down (indeed with equal amounts used per side, the amount used may go up, because we can justify using them). The tankers that like to use huge numbers of drugs are happy because there will be less hatred towards 'druggers'. I.e. using garage drugs will be seen more as 'part of the game' and not seen as 'cheating' by using them as an unfair advantage over people who cannot afford them. The tankers that do not have large numbers of drugs are happy because they get a more level playing field, equals much better than we see at present. (The total number of garage drugs used in a battle should only show at the very end of a battle (1 in 10 times) - otherwise non-druggers might choose to quit all battles were the number of drugs used are NOT showing. 7. 1 in 10 battles (randomly) it would be good to show the health bar on each opposition tank. We often shoot enemies and this appears to have no effect - seeing the health bar would either confirm our suspition that the damage calculation is not working or confirming that it is working. Why not test this idea? or is Tanki not willing to admit the damage calculation sometimes is a nonsense? and maybe too complex to fix? (A bit of honesty on this would be nice.) Tanki have done a brilliant job with this game, otherwise I would not be here, I just want to help make it better for as many as possible, and from all points of view.

Very good, and show's that Tanki can program 'immortality' if it wants to. In order to stop the shouts of 'no kill' before the GB is dropped, why not ALSO give all Tanks immortality right up to the point the GB is caught or touches the ground. and make this a permanent feature of GB drops.

I should have said that once Tanki have fixed the drug imbalance problem hopefully in TX then I will be happy to contribute real money to Tanki and sending these gifts is a good way to do it. I.e. I don't want to buy performance enhancements like 'supplies kits' because I consider this gives an unfair advantage, and I only buy MU with crystals I have earned on the battlefield, hence, buying gifts is potentially harmless.

I was mislead by these 'gifts', without paying enough attention I thought the idea was to send gifts of crystals! However, I can understand that the idea of actually sending crystals to another account would ruin the game economy and could be hacked. So I probably broke the rules when I sent a test gift from a lower account to my main account for 200 crystals. Sure enough my lower account was debited 200 crystals and my higher account got none. Sure this gift now shows up in my Profile for all to see - and makes it look like I have some friends! What most of us really wanted was an improvement to the existing 'friend' process. We would like to receive a short note to have a 'clue' why someone 'friend-ed' us (even a 'picklist' of reasons would be good). I always imagine it was some amazing maneuver I did - but I can't usually remember what it was. Or maybe they just want to 'mark me' to avoid being on my side? I know I do upset some tankers from time to time, - I make mistakes okay! We also wanted a way to mark some users as druggers (or 'non friends') - but that's another story - and this will never happen because Tanki needs the sales of 'supplies kits' to pay for it's existence - i.e. Tanki has been shown to love druggers at every opportunity. I do hope Tanki continue to explore more ways to earn an income without the sale of 'supplies kits' which so obviously unbalance the battlefield. (Off Topic - belongs in Brubook's - "Drugs - the only way to win" thread.) I think it's interesting that if only the 'losing side' were allowed to use garage supplies this would in fact help balance the battlefield (the weaker side often needs help) - for some reason Tanki refuse to even try this. Maybe they fear a loss of sales of 'supplies kits'? I hope Tanki-X can get away from this drug sales dependence or at least allow equal amounts per tank per 15 mins - say 10 per 15 minutes is about the sweet spot. The reason I put this here is to remind everyone that does not know it, an estimated 80% of revenue for Tanki comes from sales of supplies kits. If I'm wrong why won't Tanki tell us the true figure? It should cost nothing to tell the truth.

Not asking for removal of drugs - just reduction of the need to buy 'Supplies Kits'. And I agree that hacking drugs completely disrupts the game. My answer is to count the amount of supplies used per tank and show this on the scoreboard - we know Tanki has this count. This makes it easier to expose the cheats. It also means Tanki could easily limit the amount of garage drugs used per side. To equal amounts per side. This will prevent the hackers gaining such a huge advantage. A total of 15 garage drugs per tank per 15 minutes will do the trick.

For the first time I ran out of 'up votes' to 'down vote' this update. Tanki must have got the message by now this was a bad decision - I imagine the Russians are saying the same? If we had a vote on it then I reckon 99% are against it (only the 'forelock' tuggers or the ignorant could approve.) This has created a bigger imbalance on the battle field and a loss of fun factor. I notice much more instant killing going on, which diminishes the skill from the game and one side more easily dominates the other (= no fun on the winning side or losing side). There was nothing very wrong with the old MU system. More Tankers will simply discover it's cheaper to buy 'Supplies kits' than MU upgrades. Which is exactly what Tanki want you to do. Tanki don't care that more drugs on the battle field means one side more easily dominates the other. Tanki 'forgot' to provide a 'control' to make sure both sides get to use equal amounts because this would annoy the buyers. Tanki don't seem to understand where most of the fun comes from in Tanki (good battles). If Tanki listened to it's users and spent more time trying to help make it more fun, then we would happily pay more. As it is, they look to be biting the hand that feeds it = very sad (this time both buyers and non buyers are upset.) and we have shown Tanki plenty of ways to get revenue without using sales of Supplies Kits as a primary source. Just ask for help and we will show you how.