Many times playing with shaft, I found myself with no opportunity to do a damn thing other than die.

I 've never found myself in this position with hunter - smoky combo. I did it on purpose and I noticed that you are right. This doesn't change the fact that shaft has weaker recoil but to be accurate and honest with you, what you said is correct.

I hope you are not offended. It wasn't my intention. I said what I believe about the power difference between you and me. Of course, I want to read your opinion. I finished what I wanted to say. Now its my turn to hold Michael Jackson's pop corn.

Dear LittleWillie 1)I didn't say that smoky doesn't fight BETTER from close distance. I said I' ve been killed in two shots by smoky from long. So, I haven't the long range advantage. In addition, if I have the surprise advantage then yes I am the winner. Otherwise I am dead. If smoky plays well, it will start shooting me to destroy my sniping and reducing my health at the same time. I should retreat or die. 2)I spoke about hunter not hornet. And since it happened to me with hunters, one can say the same for hunter. So, my disadvantage of a shaft on a hunter to a thunder on a hunter is the hunter. OK I agree. 3)I may be blind or crazy because I 've seen sometimes any of the weapons you mentioned to make sequential kills. Of course the meaning of "double" makes sense for weapons with low fire rate as thunder, rail or shaft. A smoky can kill one with one shot and the other with the next if the enemies have low health and this is not "literally" a double kill. The same for all high fire rate weapons. Twins or vulcan with continuous fire do not need double kills. They make it sequentially killing one by another. However, thunder and rail have the double kill ability. I may agree that it 'll be a good change to stop it in general. Why it was a good change to stop it ONLY for shaft? 4)I spoke about SHOOTING weapons so, not mentioned to isida, firebird or freeze. Recoil is one of the main advantages of smoky and I know it because I play with smoky. I have made a rail off target with a smoky shot but with shaft this is very rare. Anyway, I say that among smoky, thunder, rail, rico and shaft, the latter has the weakest recoil. Am I wrong? (OK I may be wrong with the twins). About what you said for the edges of the map, you are right. I saw this point to a post of I_already_won not yours but I didn't remember it. I apologise. In any case I agree with the point that from the edge of the map a shaft has not many chances to score and if you didn't say so, sorry I disagree. Dear ThirdOnion The power of shaft shot is the favorite discussion of all shaft haters (I don't say you are one of them) while they forget all disadvantages paid for this power. However I didn't say that. I said that a DRUGGED thunder (or rail) has already the ability to kill medium hulls and below too. So, thay have the advantage comparing to a shaft. Even if shaft also drugs it gets only the half of sniping time for the same result. This is of course important but the time needed doesn't compare with the simple hit of the space bar. By the way, at my rank facing hornets M2, I can't even do this. I told you once more, shaft M2 unlocks later. In a game among M1 hulls and weapons and without drugs, I would be more than satisfied from my shaft. About thunder - shaft duel, I would agree but I apologise that I am confused. What's the point of laserline? You say: don't fight face to face because you are a sniper but on the other hand I can't stay in a sniper mode because of the laserline. So, I should be sniper but I shouldn't be. No need to tell me ways to hide the laserline. I know it but according to this point, shaft is a weapon for very limited use just for area denial. Thank you both for making this discussion. Certainly the combo shaft - wasp is extremely hard to play it effectively. I wouldn't say I play it well.

Dear LittleWillie thanks for sharing my opinion, but my main point was the game balance. Normally, the designers count statistically how effective every weapon is in order to keep them all equal at the same upgrade level. This isn't an easy job and they can't be always fair. I am very concern to shaft haters though some of us are kidding with them. From a point and then, the "shaft hate" became a common sense and maybe affected designers decisions. When I bought shaft I thought that (as with EVERY weapon) I should make a compromise. I get long range powerful shot and I pay flexibility, fire rate, visibility and all the others. As a result I should develop my own tactic according these cons and pros. Nowadays shaft has lost the pros and kept the cons. In detail: 1)Long range. Any thunder or smoky can kill me from long distances in maps like skylark or bridges (I mean from the other side of the map). Twins reduced my life very fast (as it was close to me) from the bridge in skylark (I was on the other bridge). So they are weapons with the same effective range, but higher fire rate (disadvantage for shaft). Please don't tell me numbers showing unlimited range for shaft while limited for the others. Only highways map is really long. The rest maps can be covered by the effective range of a thunder or smoky, so no real benefit for shaft there. 2)Power. I lost almost 80% of my health by ONE thunder shot (notice: I was playing with hunter, not wasp). My fully loaded shaft shot didn't have more impact at the enemy hunter. You may say thunder was drugged. Well yes, and this forced me to drug too. The result was that we could both one-shot-kill each other but thunder had the advantage of less reload time. So, What is the difference between a drugged thunder and a drugged shaft? With shaft you have to snipe to make a one shot kill while thunder does the same thing with a simple hit of space bar (disadvantage for shaft). Don't tell me that the shaft shot caused more damage. In the battle, once you 've made a full kill, any additional damage doesn't matter and I don't care if my weapon's additional (therefore useless) damage is greater. 3)What about double kills? Shaft is the ONLY weapon unable to make double kills. In a battle today, I was behind a mate fighting a railgun. Having predicted the situation, I was ready (in sniping mode) earlier enough before the other two (mate and enemy) although I was just stopped (tell me again about unskilled shafts to make me laugh) but my shot didn't pass through my mate. The next moment the railgun replied and killed both of us as we were in the same line. Another time, I have also been killed shot by an enemy railgun standing behind the enemy I was fighting. Somebody should ask the designers: Is this fair play? Double kill in the same shot line was available in the begining of the game, for both railgun and shaft. It removed from shaft and remained for railgun. I have read no explanation so far. 4)Very poor recoil. If a hunter is fallen in side, a shaft shot cannot bring it in normal position. ALL other shooting weapons (rail, smoky, rico) can. Also thunder can but with self-injuring in this case. Once more, I remember that shaft recoil was not always so weak. It became so, after one of all these rebalances against shaft. Do you remember the "rebalances" to make the game "more fair" after so many posts about how OP shaft was, followed by "pathetic hate" posts against shaft? I hope not to start a new post about heavy or light hulls. I had no more luck playing with my titan and if designers wanted me to be a heavy hull sitting duck, then why should they give me a laserline? By the way, laserline is perchaps the only thing for which I don't complain. For I believe that laserline enforces shafts to be mobile with more arcades and quick shots and this was good thing for the whole game. You see, all the opinions of higher rank players with fully upgraded shafts and plenty of drugs, playing almost always in DM mode maps and writing posts with titles: "shaft sucks" are not applicable for me and my rank. I fully respect the elder and experienced shafts but we are not the same, unfortunately. I fully agree with you but LittleWillie's point was that you can't have many kills by the edge of the map. Shaft has to risk close to attacking or defending team mates.

Dear GuidoFawkes, Well, I know that the combo wasp-shaft seems weird. I use it lately because I want to practice shaft with light hulls. Usually, I play with hunter. Some players may disagree with you that shaft is only for heavy hulls. Anyway, we discuss about the weapon not the hull and I expected an answer to prove that something I said was wrong about the WEAPON. I did not ask protection but my life would be much easier if I could kill a hornet with 2-3 arcades and this has nothing to do with my hull. Now I can't do even this. What I said was that shaft is nerfed (at least at my rank). A few words about protection. In team games many times I can't shoot the enemy shaft because a lot of close range players attack me before even find a place to shoot. I should congratulate this team of course for the good work but the fact is that they protect their shaft and this is good for them. Do you disagree? A point about heavy hulls. I have learned that how heavy the hull is, matters little in a team battle. Everything is vulnerable with a appropriate concentration of fire. A good team does not afraid of a mamo. They will simply concentrate fire on it. I would not be more satisfied from my shaft, if I had combined it with titan. Since you checked my profile, you might see that there is a titan (M1 of course) available. It's my CHOICE to use light hulls because they offer mobility and some advantages I am not willing to loose. Defending yourself, you have to choose mobility or armor. I choose mobility, you choose armor. So simple. One more notice about my playstyle. I want to help my team and protect my mates from long distances as they do for me (hopefully) from close ones. Being mobile needs no more than hunter or viking. I will never be the shaft who takes a good position goes on sniping mode and fell asleep until somebody passes from there. I will never be the player fighting in precisely the way other players hate in shaft no matter they are teamates or enemies. I do not say that you are such a player. I say that I have seen many of them. Dear ThirdOnion, You are right, I play with shaft M1 in M2 ranks but the shaft M2 unlocks in greater rank than mine while railguns are unlocked in a earlier and I guess this is not my fault.

Good point. The argument that railgun is easier than shaft is very interesting. I agree with it and of course it means that railgun is more OP than shaft, which also means that shaft needs more skill than railgun. GuidoFawkes apparently belongs to a clan and enjoys protection from teamates. Fighting alone with shaft is much more difficault. I do not mention that at my rank shaft is almost useless in comparison with railgun or thunder. One reason might be that M2 unlocks later than other weapons. In battles, I am unable to kill with one fully loaded sniping shot M2 hornets with my M1 shaft. I do not speak about arcades. Shaft is the only weapon having no double kills (theoretically it has, but show me one who made it). By the way, CKopocTb_3To_CTpacTb I saw your video and I like it but I found it unbeleivable. You used arcade shots in most cases and you kill. Playing the same style my shots leave enemies more or less untouchable. I guess you bought assault emitters or you have upgraded your weapon.

I fully agree with this and I have written my criticism here: http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=235814&page=17#entry5945063