Anti-Cheat feedback

[r_Micky30 4]

Hi,

 

Please excuse me if my language isn't correct and if you already have discussed the following, but I'd like to add some thoughts.

 

i have stated before in the past. its actually incredibly dumb that a mod or admin cant enter a game as a 'ghost' to view violations. as you ask for a solution, i propose that a live flagging system for players to contact mods during games and mods to be able to enter games unseen would really help.

 

I've played Bzflag for some years and it has an observer mode available for everyone -- you can enter the game as an observer -- you can see the game, participate in chat but you don't have a tank and you're not in the battle -- as an example its really nice way to watch tournament matches. This is a MUST HAVE feature TankiOnline misses :)

 

Second, it has a voting system, not very effective since many players don't know how to vote but its still a way for people to ban certain cheaters.

 

I have thought about applying for a mod position, but:

1. This is a serious responsibility and I don't know how much time I'll have in the future

2. I have a skype account, but I want to remain some anonymity :)

3. I don't know what tools admins have -- somehow I've got an impression, that mods/admins cant do much ...

 

If I could ban/kick cheaters from game when I see one I'd be happy to use this opportunity.

The more honest players could do this the less cheaters there would be.

 

I know, there will be great temptation to misuse and the BIG question is -- whom will you trust.

 

 

best regards,

... alias Micky

 

PS! In BZFlag all tanks are equal but experienced players still usually win :)

[skitee 555]

Stirring the pot is accurate Monkey. Skitee' date=' the internet is an anonymous place and those are two disparate sites. My behavior over there has absolutely no bearing on my behavior over here. My track record on this site is near spotless. [/quote']

 

The truth that may be, but you are the same person in both sites. The fact that you have a permanant ban on another may mean that you enjoy flaming, for example - and using that logic, the tanki admins may have seen you flaming here - without you noticing it. I use flaming as an example - flooding, trolling, spamming and cussing all can be used as an example - but the fact is that you can hardly act completely differently on one site from what you do on another.

[eessydo 17]

The fact is skitee, that you are completely wrong. If you wish to preview my record on this site then that is fine. I have a total of maybe one or two 5 minute bans on this site, and none of my content has ever been removed or moderated in the forum. One of those bans was from a flood which I did not intend to happen.

 

My complaints with that site are a non-issue here as inconsistency and hypocrisy are mainstays on their site. Some people are grown up enough to silo themselves from one relationship to another and not let it cross over. For example, I can be frustrated with an individual like you that lacks maturity and the capability to understand how adults act, but I don't let that influence how I speak to other people in this site that have proven to be more mature and capable of having adult conversations.

 

The truth is Skitee, is that if I operated underneath another nick, or if you had no previous relationship with me on a prior site, you would never be able to tie both of those items together because of my spotless record in here. People can obey and enforce rules when they want to, and while I understand that you have struggled with this in the past making statements about cheating inside this very forum, others can be grown up enough to act responsible when required, or challenge policies as they see fit without it effecting them in other areas.

 

When you grow up to be a big boy, you will understand that.

[eessydo 17]

2. I have a skype account, but I want to remain some anonymity :)

 

I value my personal privacy also. This is a major issue with the Skype requirement.

[MonkeyMagic 89]

 

dont see what ur gripe is about not getting the mod 'job' cos you dont have skype. if you need to communicate with everyone else using skype and you cant or wont use it then thats your problem.

 

Monkey, Communication can take many forms. Skype is just one, and based on what I have seen not required to be effective at a this job. Simple documentation would suffice, and the forum's PM tool are more than enough.

 

The gripe is that it is unnecessary.

 

from what i have seen of the mod set up you really do need skype mate.

[MonkeyMagic 89]

but the fact is that you can hardly act completely differently on one site from what you do on another.

 

yes you can. how dare you suggest otherwise!

[MonkeyMagic 89]

 

I've played Bzflag for some years and it has an observer mode available for everyone -- you can enter the game as an observer -- you can see the game, participate in chat but you don't have a tank and you're not in the battle -- as an example its really nice way to watch tournament matches. This is a MUST HAVE feature TankiOnline misses :)

 

 

yes the ability to view games would be great wouldnt it, not to mention the obvious benefits to mods catching cheaters.....

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

eessydo, No offence but your application was literally, Arrogant.

 

skitee, We all have multiple personalities, You'd laugh if you played with me anywhere except tanki.

 

Micky3, The idea is not old, but its still far from implementation if its even being developed.

[SilentShadow 104]

We are discussing the anti-cheat and why it is horrible at the moment; not the reasons why some people did not get moderator status. :lol:

 

Whoever stated this idea above, I agree when you say that you believe that more moderators would be great, only if there is a surplus for each server, not just 1 2 and 3.

But even better would be if the anti-cheat would work against the flag hacks and flying tanks hacks.

 

The anti-cheat will never be perfect, but it can be strong enough that the toughest hackers will be daunted away from it.

This is just a video game, after all.

[skitee 555]

The truth is Skitee, is that if I operated underneath another nick, or if you had no previous relationship with me on a prior site, you would never be able to tie both of those items together because of my spotless record in here. People can obey and enforce rules when they want to, and while I understand that you have struggled with this in the past making statements about cheating inside this very forum, others can be grown up enough to act responsible when required, or challenge policies as they see fit without it effecting them in other areas.

 

This is true. I will not deny that. However, what my point was that you got a permanant ban from another site due to a character flaw in how you acted on that site. Maybe that has strayed into your discussion here - inadvertently or not - and the admins may have seen that.

 

Either way, I have learnt from experience not to debate with someone who constantly throws in insults, seeing how they normally cannot give any meaningful discussion, so I'm out.

[Mokpama_rapra 5]

...

i have stated before in the past. its actually incredibly dumb that a mod or admin cant enter a game as a 'ghost' to view violations. as you ask for a solution, i propose that a live flagging system for players to contact mods during games and mods to be able to enter games unseen would really help. also an, 'in game' voting system to pause the game until a mod arrives would really help. lets see hackers hack when the game is paused until a mod arrives. this would also mean that mods would be directed to problem games and therefore use their time more efficiently. if this system was in place i think there would be little or no hacking in the game and even the mult situation could be combated.

...

 

Your idea is good, however hard to implement. Nevertheless it is a good starting point of simplification targetted to efficiency.

 

Q: How?

A: Delegate players to disable hacker gains as first step of defence.

 

Implementation guidelines:

 

The game final crystals distribution modal box is the key.

 

1. Enhance it so that:

- it has the list of all players that participated at this specific created game, mandatory including all those left earlier;

- the list is proceeded by radiobutton control for each player listed;

- before hitting the close button on that dialog, a player, if wishes, can select one suspected hacker.

 

2. Setup a thershlod for accumulative tolerence for the accussed hackers, for example 30 accuses from unique players.

After reaching this threshhold the hacker cannot collect crystalls at the games jackpot distribution for the current and any following game for a predefined period of play - example - a week, 10 days, etc. After the penalty period expires, these 'black' 30 points are nullified, and if the 'hacker' has not accumulated already other points for other threshold trigger for panalty, he again is able to win crystals.

 

3. The reporting players have a pool of 2 or max 3 reports of hacker per day/24 hours. That is to avoid misuse of false or intentional reports. Again put an accumulative reporting threshold to the player reporting side, lets say 20 reports, after that disallow reports from that player for a pre-defined period - for example 2 weeks.

 

4. On background/database scope the mods can do further analysis of how often a player has been reported as a hacker, and do the final ban of this player to the game.

 

The provided values are just for example, and need further tuning, but I hope you have grasped the idea.

[MonkeyMagic 89]

...

i have stated before in the past. its actually incredibly dumb that a mod or admin cant enter a game as a 'ghost' to view violations. as you ask for a solution, i propose that a live flagging system for players to contact mods during games and mods to be able to enter games unseen would really help. also an, 'in game' voting system to pause the game until a mod arrives would really help. lets see hackers hack when the game is paused until a mod arrives. this would also mean that mods would be directed to problem games and therefore use their time more efficiently. if this system was in place i think there would be little or no hacking in the game and even the mult situation could be combated.

...

 

Your idea is good, however hard to implement. Nevertheless it is a good starting point of simplification targetted to efficiency.

 

Q: How?

A: Delegate players to disable hacker gains as first step of defence.

 

Implementation guidelines:

 

The game final crystals distribution modal box is the key.

 

1. Enhance it so that:

- it has the list of all players that participated at this specific created game, mandatory including all those left earlier;

- the list is proceeded by radiobutton control for each player listed;

- before hitting the close button on that dialog, a player, if wishes, can select one suspected hacker.

 

2. Setup a thershlod for accumulative tolerence for the accussed hackers, for example 30 accuses from unique players.

After reaching this threshhold the hacker cannot collect crystalls at the games jackpot distribution for the current and any following game for a predefined period of play - example - a week, 10 days, etc. After the penalty period expires, these 'black' 30 points are nullified, and if the 'hacker' has not accumulated already other points for other threshold trigger for panalty, he again is able to win crystals.

 

3. The reporting players have a pool of 2 or max 3 reports of hacker per day/24 hours. That is to avoid misuse of false or intentional reports. Again put an accumulative reporting threshold to the player reporting side, lets say 20 reports, after that disallow reports from that player for a pre-defined period - for example 2 weeks.

 

4. On background/database scope the mods can do further analysis of how often a player has been reported as a hacker, and do the final ban of this player to the game.

 

The provided values are just for example, and need further tuning, but I hope you have grasped the idea.

 

good to see some suggestions :)

 

one question - what if a clan or group of people decide to flag a player as a hacker, even though he/she is not?

 

player initiated bans are a fail due to the innate human characteristic to cheat! sad but true im afraid. the issue of bans can only be carried out by an appointed moderator backed with either first hand proof or evidence provided.

[eessydo 17]

eessydo' date=' No offence but your application was literally, Arrogant.[/quote']

 

I will make sure I inform anyone I see that volunteers their own personal time to enforcement of the rules, while asking that they get none of the glory or fancy icons to flaunt for others to see that they are just arrogant.

 

No offence Kool, but you can't discern my intentions from text, but you definitely lack maturity and tact if you felt the need to make that statement. I am still not sure how such a brash, tactless, rude & immature individual was given any responsibility.

 

Oh, I forgot, you knew someone that was a moderator.

 

I have written extensively on how to handle customers @ a moderator level, you obviously need to go back and review that content.

[eessydo 17]

 

2. Setup a thershlod for accumulative tolerence for the accussed hackers, for example 30 accuses from unique players.

After reaching this threshhold the hacker cannot collect crystalls at the games jackpot distribution for the current and any following game for a predefined period of play - example - a week, 10 days, etc. After the penalty period expires, these 'black' 30 points are nullified, and if the 'hacker' has not accumulated already other points for other threshold trigger for panalty, he again is able to win crystals.

 

I don't think allowing hackers to stay in a game is the right model at all. Once identified as a hacker they should be completely removed from the game and an IP ban placed on their account(s).

 

While they can go through a proxy server, or change their IP, it does make it more of a pain to keep hacking and getting removed.

 

Hand slap bans only work for the period in which they are in effect.

[eessydo 17]

This is true. I will not deny that. However, what my point was that you got a permanant ban from another site due to a character flaw in how you acted on that site. Maybe that has strayed into your discussion here - inadvertently or not - and the admins may have seen that.

 

Either way, I have learnt from experience not to debate with someone who constantly throws in insults, seeing how they normally cannot give any meaningful discussion, so I'm out.

 

If you think that me advising you that you lack maturity is an insult, then I hope nobody ever truly insults you.

 

-Good luck!

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

Oh' date=' I forgot, you knew someone that was a moderator.[/quote']

 

I was the first moderator for the English section.

 

And yes, I did feel to make that statement just because all I saw in the application was "I want to become a mod, but I don't want to share my private life with you guys." Perhaps you would like to go back to the application and have a look at it? I'm sure you haven't deleted it.

 

 

On-Topic: IP bans won't work, Proxies and VPNs are out there. At the moment, we have a nearly instant account block for people who are hacking. All we need is a single screenshot from inside of outside of the battle. As it is more than enough to prove. The anti-cheat systems need a new patch, IMO.

[eessydo 17]

Well that has nothing to do with arrogance Koolwalky, that is personal privacy. There is a significant difference, and people that are mature can understand that, and when people value their personal privacy and are very clear about it, the last thing a child such as yourself should do is devalue it by calling the other individual arrogant.

 

My personal life i none of your business, including my skype name etc.

 

I have a life outside of tanki, and my request was that you respect that because of specific instances just like this. Children are not responsible and can not hold information in confidence and the proof is right here in black in white courtesy of yourself.

 

as a courtesy I went back and reviewed the application I submitted to you, and there is absolutely nothing in that application that could justify you calling me arrogant. It was simple and to the point with a clear request for you to respect my privacy and anonymity. Something which you just violated because as I sad above, children can not be trusted.

 

 

Extremely poor choice of words showing a clear lack of maturity and tact. I think you need to grow up also.

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

"people that can mature can understand that"

 

People who are mature said that you need Skype, we need a system of communication, and at the moment, Skype is the easiest one out there. Make a separate Skype for us if you want to, But you cannot become a mod without Skype.

 

This is going really off-topic.

[eessydo 17]

Skype has nothing to do with maturity, it is non-sequiter.

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

It has everything to do with being a moderator, that's the question here.

[SilentShadow 104]

It has everything to do with being a moderator' date=' that's the question here.[/quote']

 

But it has nothing to do with the anti-cheat! :roll:

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

Agreed, I'll stay out of here unless called by name :P

[eessydo 17]

It has everything to do with being a moderator' date=' that's the question here.[/quote']

 

So you and skitee bring my integrity and application into question, and you fall back on skype and the topic?

 

If you don't want to address your comments and actions, don't put it on the floor for debate. At least be a big boy and take responsibility.

[SilentShadow 104]

At least be a big boy and take responsibility.

 

At least be a big boy and take responsibility by stopping with telling a moderator, the epitome of responsibility, to take responsibility.

You seem to have very irritated air recently, and you seem to have a problem with the people of this forum... :?

My sir, I must conclude that I do not like you.

 

ANYWAYS, where were we.

Oh yes, the manage of the anti-cheat.

What do the developers and administrators have to say about the problems of the anti-cheat? :shock:

[eessydo 17]

What? At least make some sense.

 

Being a moderator does not make one responsible, it just gives someone something to be responsible for, just like if you own a cat or a dog. It also doesn't mean that they are right 100% of the time, which in this case he isn't.

 

Talking down to another individual or individuals because he is a moderator is more of an abuse of power, and less being responsible and respectful. As a voluntary ambassador of this site, you would think that would be a critical component when selecting moderators.

 

This is not the first time Kool has decided to attack a user inappropriately in this forum. He also has a nasty habit of trolling specific individuals, which in my book is behavior that is rather unbecoming for a mod.

 

If you feel the need to follow blindly and believe that because he is a moderator that he is responsible that is fine.

 

As for the anti-cheat, it is still a failure.