Scoring System: Discussion

[eessydo 17]

There has been a lot of talk about the fairness or unfairness of the existing scoring system so I though I would just lay out my thoughts on it and let people either make their own proposals, whine about mine, or add to the discussion. Your choice on what role you want to fill.

 

My Proposed Scoring system:

 

The fairest scoring system is one that accounts for skill and encourages players to play with like ranks (with other players of the same level/rank). It should also benefit buyers because let's face it, they pay the bills.

 

1. Incremental Scoring for damage dealt: Points should be awarded based on damage/healing dealt. 1 pt for every 10 HP or something to that effect, doesn't really matter. If you drop 100 HP of damage on someone, someone shouldn't get 100% of the points for a KS.

 

2. Bonus for Kills: Bonus points should be awarded for a kill. Whatever that bonus is, it should be less than damage dealt so as not to encourage too much KS, Maybe 3 - 5 pts. or possibly something scaled where early ranks you get a point, WO's 2 points, Lietenants 3 pts, majors 4 pts, generals 5 pts.

 

3. Bonus for killing opponents with your flag: This should be a sizeable bonus. If you kill the guy with your flag it should be worth a sizeable reward (15 / 20 pts). (Only for CTF obv.)

 

4. Bonus for Retrieving your captured flag: Since it is not always beneficial to retrieve the flag if your area isn't clear, and because people sometimes fight over the ability to retrieve a flag I would probably put it around 10 pts. Killing the guy is probably more important.

 

5. Bonus for flag capture: This should be the most weighted of all the bonuses. It should span somewhere between 50 - 200 pts depending on the ranks in the game.

 

This would encourage flag capture as a means to gain more crystals, limit defense in timed games, and overall make the game more enjoyable.

 

 

Above all of this, the crystals fund distribution needs to be rethought. I still think it is a little lopsided in how it is dealt out but that is a different conversation.

 

My only major concern would be people intentionally allowing flag grabs to bonus up. Hopefully that would not be the case but that is a dangerous road to plough if you expect to earn a large chunk of the battlefund and there are not as many opportunities to score incrementally by camping. Hopefully it is balanced, but you never know and that is why feedback would probably be necessary in balancing out the right amount of points per action.

[skitee 555]

Your whole concept of scoring comes from the assumption that KSing is not a true gauge of skill - correct, or did I get the completely wrong impression?

 

Well, if it is, I personally disagree with your potential suggestoins. Kill Stealing is a part of Tanki Gameplay that should not be removed. You say that your system is "one that accounts for skill and encourages players to play with like ranks". Well, hey, but removing KSing is removing a lot of skill from tanki. Rewarding people for simply inflicting damage is a very lazy system, I have to wager. Just look at Isida. Yes, there are some very good isida players out there, but generally a poor isida can still get high up in the charts because of how it gets experience points for simply healing. Imagine if isidas' only got experience for healing someone up to maximum. That would put a lot more skill into isida, in my opinion? But anyway, that's an aside issue. No need to dwell on it.

 

My point is that giving people experience points for inflicting damage does not reward skill at all, but rewards laziness. It also enables people to not "finish off" kills and be satisfied with simply inflicting damage, which is another aspect of laziness. Far from supporting skill, I feel you reduce the impact of it with your potential plan. And before you add this fact, 2-5 points for a KS is not enough.

 

Having used short [Firebird], mid[Thunder] and long [Railgun] range weapons extensively, I have KS'd with all of them - and failed to KS despite trying with all of them as well. I think KSing and avoiding being KSed is the most skilled part of Tanki. Reducing the impact of KSing is useless if you want to increase skill.

 

About your other, non-related to KSing, points:

 

4. Do you think that returning the flag should be dependant on the distance from the flag podium that the flag is, as it is now?

 

5. Do you think ranks are the only issue, or does the amount of players make a difference as well?

[eessydo 17]

I have not eliminated KS'ing as part of the structure, just reduced its impact.

 

KS would still exist in the form of bonuses for kills. I just inverted their value.

 

As for your laziness argument,

 

 

1. There is nothing lazy about the overall scoring system due to the bonus structures and pay outs.

2. A HP based system encourages battling and not passive defending and KS scoring. I am not sure how that is lazy at all.

3. Not sure how not finishing off a kill is a major problem. I don't finish off kills now for reasons (Usually to soften up the defense so I can grab a flag without fear of respawn) , and I finish off kills for reasons (usually because they are shooting back at me). It is indifferent to the gameplay because ultimately your goal will be to get a flag in a CTF, get the bonuses for kills in a TDM, and it doesn't matter in DM. So I am not sure that your point has any merit.

4. If your preferred method of scoring is KS'ing, then I guess I would not be happy about it either. The structure was created to eliminate camping and encourage battling, which it clearly and definitely does.

5. You have refused to acknowledge the other elements of the system in an effort to single in on one issue to make a poor argument about "laziness"

 

6. I thought about your isidia argument. I being someone who decided to think out the problem realized that if only full heals were awarded, isidias would become extinct from the battle field or simply become a camping unit healing to score at long range. If I was an Isidia under your scoring system I would sit behind someone in a long-range snipe spot. Wait for them to get hit, to ensure I only had to heal the minimum to score. That doesn't resolve the problem, just changes how it used or not used. Switching out one problem for another is never an effective solution.

 

Please understand the overall structure of the scoring system first before focusing on one small detail and how it impacts you as an individual.

[eessydo 17]

RE #4

 

It could be, but I wouldn't have it as an overloaded value and that would be hard to implement. If anything it would be NTE (Not to exceed) 10 pts.

 

RE #5

 

My preferred method would be by the M value of Weapons, Hull and Paint cost combo. Each one with a scoring value as that is usually the primary determinant for team strength in what I would deem as "pick-up" games.

 

As for your question of Rank vs. # of players, I would tend to say Rank but honestly, whatever is easiest to implement at this point.

[Meliora 1,652]

Uh...

I'm sorry this isn't long, but hasn't that already been enforced? I mean I was in a battle and I started shooting someone and then someone else came and stole my kill but I still got some xp.

[eessydo 17]

Kill Stealing is a part of Tanki Gameplay that should not be removed.

 

So was Gold Farming, Can you honestly tell me the game is not improved with its elimination?

 

You have to ask yourself, is an improved scoring system that levels off extreme gains for lower or higher ranks really that bad for the game?

[skitee 555]

1. There is nothing lazy about the overall scoring system due to the bonus structures and pay outs.

Like I said, 5 points for a KS at maximum is really nothing.

2. A HP based system encourages battling and not passive defending and KS scoring. I am not sure how that is lazy at all.

Passive defending, IMO, is not lazy. "Battling" as in running straight up the map and shooting about at people, is. That is my opinion. I think that there is nothing more lazy than just moving through the middle of the map. That may not be your opinion. I think simply shooting at people is lazy. You may think hiding in a corner shooting at people from distance is lazy.

3. Not sure how not finishing off a kill is a major problem. I don't finish off kills now for reasons (Usually to soften up the defense so I can grab a flag without fear of respawn) ' date=' and I finish off kills for reasons (usually because they are shooting back at me). It is indifferent to the gameplay because ultimately your goal will be to get a flag in a CTF, get the bonuses for kills in a TDM, and it doesn't matter in DM. So I am not sure that your point has any merit.[/quote']

That may be your opinion, but most people do go for kills. IMO, ignoring people to go for the flag may be skilled and have it's benefits, but it is still lazy.

4. If your preferred method of scoring is KS'ing' date=' then I guess I would not be happy about it either. The structure was created to eliminate camping and encourage battling, which it clearly and definitely does.[/quote']

Explain what battling is. IMO, camping is a pretty good method of battling. Most of the most interesting methods of battling is camping.

5. You have refused to acknowledge the other elements of the system in an effort to single in on one issue to make a poor argument about "laziness"

Why bother with trying to deteriorate the other person's argument for the simple reason of it being a poor argument?

6. I thought about your isidia argument. I being someone who decided to think out the problem realized that if only full heals were awarded' date=' isidias would become extinct from the battle field or simply become a camping unit healing to score at long range. If I was an Isidia under your scoring system I would sit behind someone in a long-range snipe spot. Wait for them to get hit, to ensure I only had to heal the minimum to score. That doesn't resolve the problem, just changes how it used or not used. Switching out one problem for another is never an effective solution.[/quote']

Well, I was not suggesting it as a reasonable suggestion: it was not. My point is that if you add scoring for kills the way isida is scored at the moment, players will become very much like most isidas are now: just sitting around using up their charge affecting a person, whoever the person is and no matter about how important the player they are shooting is or how much health the person has.

 

Please understand the overall structure of the scoring system first before focusing on one small detail and how it impacts you as an individual.

 

It does not influence me as an individual at all. I am a Thunder user, and I get my kill stolen more times than I kill steal.

 

You have to ask yourself' date=' is an improved scoring system that levels off extreme gains for lower or higher ranks really that bad for the game?[/quote']

 

Levels off extreme gains? Really? It may level off some gains for these ranks, but it also levels off the differences in skills.

[king_beast88 19]

 

4. Do you think that returning the flag should be dependant on the distance from the flag podium that the flag is, as it is now?

 

5. Do you think ranks are the only issue, or does the amount of players make a difference as well?

 

4. Yes.

 

5. That second number by you're rank should make a difference when killing them, as should wether they are drugging and the m-level of the tank/turret.

[SuperNick95 5,312]

www.tankionline.com -> In Development

 

Changes in the scoring system and the battle fund.

[king_beast88 19]

www.tankionline.com -> In Development

 

Changes in the scoring system and the battle fund.

 

O well be it that they are not discussing what they plan on doing with the change of score I wonder how dramatic it will be.

[eessydo 17]

Skitee,

 

Unfortunately I can see very little point in your argument.

 

At this point it seems the argument is, if you shoot at people and don't kill them it is lazy, and if you battle passively by camping all day that is an interesting way to play.

 

To defend it you say that you don't see much point in running up the middle and shooting at people.

 

I don't think anyone sees the point of running up the middle and shooting at people. Spending that much time in respawn won't earn you very many points. Under my proposed system you will earn significantly more points if you can stay alive and keep pressure on the enemy.

 

It is simple math my friend, if you make contact with an enemy with your projectile more often, you get rewarded. Skill is skill, you don't diminish it in any way by leveraging my scoring system at any level. If someone wants to run up the middle and die, they won't get to many shots off now will they??? Sounds like under my scoring system they are diminishing their scoring opportunities now aren't they? So there is absolutely no truth in the fact that leveraging this scoring system diminishes and / or levels off skill. You have been debunked based on your own example.

 

All you are doing is changing the aspect of how you score and leveling off some of the massive point gains by high levels, just like the recently adjusted scoring system now leveled off the massive point gains from lower levels.

 

Application of a little common sense will get you to the conclusion (and point) that you really want to make. The truth is, this type of system drastically reduces the amount of points you can gain from camping, and you don't like it for that very reason.

 

Nothing lazy about it, you will just have to step into the open more often to score and be at the top of the list for the fund pay out. That is all.

[eessydo 17]

That may be your opinion, but most people do go for kills. IMO, ignoring people to go for the flag may be skilled and have it's benefits, but it is still lazy.

 

For the record I want to note how you say that being skilled and using your brain to win games is "lazy".

 

So what you are suggesting is that killing the enemy is paramount to capturing a flag? Because if that is the case I am one of the laziest dudes around. I will always forego a kill and drawing attention to myself in favor of getting to a flag.

 

Again, I just don't get your point. Of course maybe I would if I stood still camping all day long, but my finger gets tired holding the space button bar for so long.

[eessydo 17]

5. That second number by you're rank should make a difference when killing them, as should wether they are drugging and the m-level of the tank/turret.

 

I actually toyed with the drugging aspect of your comment. I thought maybe having a 10 or 20% reduction in flag score if you used drugs while carrying the flag or possible 5 - 8% reduction per drug used. (Drug pickups would not be counted)

 

I personally think that players that can grab a flag while not under the influence shoud score a higher amount.

 

Then you might have to argue on which units are drugs, and whether or not Heals would be counted as part of the drugging.

 

I don't think this would discourage drugging enough to damage the game because sometimes it is just a necessity, but it may slightly curtail it in certain circumstances, for example when one team is overpowering another team.