Release 114 - Rebalance!

[Imperial_Armour 1]

Khusainov is the Russian Community manager...Firstly, he won't answer you, because he gets thousands of messages every day, secondly, he cannot reset your garage again and give you the crystals...Actually NO ONE will do it.You got your crystals back when the rebalance happened, you had to check everything carefully before buying.If now they return you the crystals AGAIN, they'll have to do it again for ALL the players, because you aren't so special, they can't give something only to you.

O.K. So I mad a mistake by choosing the wrong person to address but everything else is possible. I've seen hackers getting their equipment taken away and as I said it before I personally received crystals spent on combat supplies as a payback when I provided a screenshot of the game where I was disconnected from the server. So functionality is there, all I need is to find a person who can take away what I've purchased so far so I can buy again with the same crystals equipment that works. Not everyone needs to do that and if there are people that unhappy with the equipment they bought and want to return it, wouldn't it be a right thing to do as Customer Service, even if the administration has to designate a one or two specific persons to do that for some short time and as one-time only favor? Because face it, there are a lot of unsatisfied people who want to have a second chance in choosing what works after the rebalance.

Edited December 22, 2012 by Imperial_Armour

[psafloyd 5]

Hi Tankers !

I have been lurking here in the forum for a while and enjoying Tanki for a bit now. It's been easy to play and fun but all that changed a month ago. I have not put a fortune into the game but I 'am annoyed that the company that produce Tanki have used such a low and trashy trick too basically "up" long term income. I have read some have put hundreds of dollars into there tanks. I feel Tanki could have added extra components too the game or added some extra value to generate more income instead of taking back what they had already sold you and selling it back too you for vastly inflated prices which is very wrong (extortion) and a very shabby way too treat there very loyal customer base. I also suspect but cannot prove and may be wrong that the sudden way that the servers are suddenly become very laggy and almost in some cases unplayable (They where certainly not like this a month or two ago on my machines) with almost no explanation from the technical staff or information about how long it will be before its resolved leads me to suspect that this is just a big refreshment and clearout of the old customer base (fresh money noobs required) although I may just be getting cynical in my old age.

 

Quote FederalBureauFBI

 

"All I know is that you're registered, right? --> When registering, you accepted the EULA ---> you read the EULA ---> you understood that all the payments you do are non-recoverable - then don't complain. You won't get your money back.

There is no theft. You ACCEPTED the conditions which say once you pay, you say 'bye' to your money. You accepted that. Now don't complain from the conditions. "

 

Actually because the crystals where paid for with real life, real world hard earned money with the contract of "pay X currency for Y (non tangible) product, this puts this issue into real world law. Effectively Tanki's position must then be justified in real world terms. At the moment they have kept totally silent on this subject letting the unpaid and quite frankly unjustifiably loyal admins/volunteers take the front line flak. My point being:

 

A:

Speaking as a large online retailer (bigger than Tanki's senior company BTW) international distance selling regulations that exist in most developed countries state there is no difference in the sale of a "Tangible" product or service, to a "non Tangible" product. The sale of an online currency (eg crystals) to purchase further non tangible goods (virtual tank components) is the same as selling real life book tokens to purchase books (tangible goods) You cannot sell a product or service to someone then take that product back with out the buyers consent at a later stage because it belongs too them not the retailer. It is just plain theft regardless of what is left in return e.g.: I steal your book back in the night and leave you some more book tokens at a seriously reduced value to the books original value. Even if the tokens left where of a higher value, it's still without consent and is considered theft. Even if it states the purchased virtual property remains the property of Tankionline.com. This is not an opinion its actual Law with real world legal precedent. Google it! Especially WoW item and account thefts, there has been several successful prosecutions for it in several countries in Europe and America.

 

Ref: Just one example:

http://www.mmo-champ...orld-quot-theft

 

Even if the Tanki contract states to the contrary of the law, the law still trumps there user contract, "(Insert Company name) reserves the right to change the contract at any time and without consent" is unenforceable/wrong in law and is always included in these standard user contracts for use, along with all the other vague butt covering attempts in the user contract to behave how they please which hold no precedent in law and this leads me to my second point.

 

 

B:

If you paid for your crystals via PAYPAL as I am sure a lot of you have. You have usually up to £500/$500 payback protection. Use it, it works! PayPal have a complaints systems If a 2nd party to a deal breaks there original sale of contract for whatever reason and refuses to return the payment they will (pending an investigation) return your money from there own pockets and then seek to pursue the 2nd party for the return. This also goes for most major credit card companies including Visa, MasterCard and American express.

 

A lot of you are asking what can we do about it and the admin and others are stating "nothing just suck it up" well that's wrong; Point

B:

above is what you can do about it. This company as with all companies are relying on the fact you do not know your rights or just cannot be bothered to/ or have the time to pursue it and will just keep playing and stump up to re-upgrade or go over to World of Tanks (which is brilliant BTW but not the same thing as Tanki) even if 50% of you leave it will not take long for you to be replaced with noobs who are keen to climb fast (read spend) and have no clue as too what this game used too be like and will happily pay the higher prices making Tanki more in the long run. It's a standard old skool business trick to increase long term growth, a short shock and then long term gains by refreshing the customer base, they calculated the percentage that would leave in disgust and what you spend vs. the long term benefits of new players re stocking the garage at higher cost and guess what! Depressing isn't it. REF: Ford - cost of fuel tank safety modifications vs. insurance payout to bereaved families (Google it)

Remember this only applies to crystal currency that has been purchased with real money with a proof of purchase not given or won in the game.

 

The following responses to legitimate complaints about this issue are unacceptable and mean nothing in the real world if you want to do something about it.

1) Quoting the standard template downloaded EULA

2) Stop whining it's happened and there is nothing you can do about it

The rebalance may be here to stay and that's for Tanki to decide ultimately, it's there choice but the interference in the pre-purchased items in your garage is very shaky.

 

 

I have nothing further to say on this except this is my experience in the real world selling online in a similar company. It's up to you users to take the action to get your money back or go elsewhere (WOT). I am usually found gaming in the Novalogic games and have always been treated very well by them. I am not going to reply to this or start debating the points above. Make your own minds up and then tell your gaming friends what you think Tanki's reputation is.

Ban me if you want admin I'am already in my Cruiser III on W.O.Ts playing capture the flag right now...Bye :P

 

Barnsey

This is a very good point, Barnsey. I can see EULA covers changes to the service and termination of the game, but not removing what you have ALREADY PAID FOR and then giving you back less value at a rate you DID NOT CONSENT TO.

I will be putting in a claim for every payment and I urge you to do that same, because Tanki have been rather cavalier in the way they executed this 'rebalance' remember, not requested by us and as far as I am concerned, their claims are fraudulent.

 

Anyway, I'll be off once my supplies are all gone but discovered I can't play WoT as I only have Mac at home now.

[tangoforce 1]

Firstly, ALL OF YOU have to understand that I DO NOT have any connection with the Tanki offices, jobs, etc.

I'm a volunteer, I work from my home in Bulgaria, I receive no money for my job.I do not have over game system, payments, etc.

 

So why are you working so hard to defend them? You yourself said you were not happy with the rebalance several pages back so why do you continue to defend Tanki and take the complaints from players when they don't even pay you for it? I think you're lying. You are their spokesperson and I think they DO pay you otherwise you would have quit this thread a long time ago.

All I know is that you're registered, right? --> when registering, you accepted the EULA ---> you read the EULA ---> you understood that all the payments you do are non-recoverable - then don't complain.You won't get your money back.

There is no theft.You ACCEPTED the conditions which say once you pay, you say 'bye' to your money.You accepted that.Now don't complain from the conditions.

 

You still have not shown me the part of the EULA that tells us about rebalancing. I don't think it exists and that means that Tank have fraudulently taken money from people.

[Bezerker 19]

Fraudulently!

Edited December 22, 2012 by Bezerker

[sacha005177 0]

Tanki oline sucks change it :mellow: :mellow: :mellow: you lost 2000 players good luck i am gonna start world of tanks

[RockandRide 12]

very mature of you sir. good to finaly read some real sense from someone :D

......im not a buyer so im happy either way B)

Thank you. And exactly... other non-buyers are getting mad... they lost nothing except their time which is their own fault.

[donut70 97]

Please read this all Tanki administraters, developers, and CEO's

Dear Tanki Online and Alternativa Platform,

As a "free player,'' of tanki online I have previously been so impressed with Tanki that I have told all my friends about it, and had convinced several to join. In doing so I have still been valuable to you, because of my freely advertising Tanki to other people.

However now I am not sure if I can continue to do that in good conscience, because I feel that when my friends buy the amount of crystals for an Isida m1 their money is turned into a voucher a.k.a ''crystals,'' that can only be used for buying a better gaming experience a.k.a

"a better gun," which is worth as much as an Isida M1. That is good and honest, but when you, Tanki Online, takes back that Isida m1 and gives back the voucher to the player in your rebalance then that player trys to use that voucher to get back their Isida M1, and finds that the

"same"voucher can no longer buy the Isida M1, then that is dishonest and the player has been lied to about it's worth when he/she first bought that voucher.That is the moral reason that I would like you to consider in putting this rebalance in place and why you should take it back.

Now I would like to explain the economical reasons for you to take back the rebalance.Many players,(myself included) would like to know if this rebalance has been made in order too get more money from the players? If so I would like you to please consider 3 things that explain

why this rebalance will actually decrease Tanki Online's revenue.

1. Have you ever heard of the Laffer Curve? If not then I will explain it to you. The Laffer Curve is the mathematical formula that computes the highest revenue you can get by raising the price of a product until you begin to lose revenue due to the increasing loss of customers.I personally believe that you have raised your prices so high that you will lose about 50% of your paying customers, and the high amount of comments saying that they will not pay anymore money until the rebalance is removed seems to agree with me.

2. Have you ever heard of the story of the goose that laid the golden eggs, and the saying that goes with it?If not I will summarize it for you.The story says that their was a couple that had a goose that laid a golden egg a day. In their greed the couple cut open the goose in order to get the gold all at once, but they did not find any gold inside the dead goose. The saying of, "Don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs," is taken to mean,"Do not destroy your steady income in your sudden greed." And the high number of comments saying that they will leave forever if Tanki does not return the prices to normal also seem to agree with me that Tanki has begun to push away it's customers and is killing off It's income.

3. (And this is the most important) Have you ever had any real problem with to many bad reviews?Well I am sorry to say that I think you will now. Too many commentors are saying that they will tell, every potential new customer of Tanki Online that they know , what Tanki Online did in the rebalance and say that Tanki online is dishonest and will convince those people not to play Tanki. Tanki has always relied on new customers for new cash flow hasn"t it?Well if you lose those people then Tanki Online will fail.

As for Me, Tanki I will give you until March 1st to take back the rebalance so that you will be sure to have enough time to put the old Tanki back in place,after that Tanki, I WILL LEAVE and I will probably be one of the last to go.

A Very Concerned Tankman,

Staff Sergeant donut70

 

P.S I hope I have been polite enough and have still been able to get my point across.

Edited December 22, 2012 by donut70

[donut70 97]

Okay u guys, i have been thinking about this, maybe we can all boycott the new upgrades so that the old Tanki can be brought back, it might not work but it's better than nothing!

We will have to do even more than that.We must all stand up and not only say that we will stop paying but that we will tell all the new tankers who have just heard of Tanki and are trying to decide if they should play and be a buyer for Tanki that Tanki can and has just out of the blue and taken all or almost all of are crystals and made them almost worthless.If we tell new players coming in, what Tanki has done and might do again then they will stop coming in and Tanki will have to either take back the rebalance or fail and die.

[FederalBureauFBI 2,881]

I will just leave. Unhappy customers do.

I'm sorry.

 

I don't want rebalance, I don't want rebalance etc etc. is NOT a discussion. So yes, the ones only saying that should shut up, because they add NOTHING to the DISCUSSION!

If they want to discuss, they have to give their reasons with it.

Also, Federal is a consultant, he is here to answer our questions, which he does, or at least tries to do.

One of the few smart people in this thread - thanks, man ;)

 

Yes we can. I repeat, if you don't fight - you don't win.

I really want to see how you will change the Devs' mind.

Understand, they created the game, they own the game, they can do whatever they want with it.People will leave, they won't get so much money - it's their problem, why you all mess with their stuff?

 

They spent months in planning and developing the rebalance, they were thinking that this will make the game better - well, me, you, many of the players don't agree with that, we don't like the rebalance (many of my friends, even a colleague left because of the rebalance), but there is nothing we can do.The rebalance will stay.At least for now.

 

I won't keep repeating the same thing, again and again, every day.Everyone is free to quit the game.Good luck.

[getreadytodie 20]

rebalence was great for me!!

[goldberg-ksa 123]

I'm sorry.

 

 

One of the few smart people in this thread - thanks, man ;)

 

 

I really want to see how you will change the Devs' mind.

Understand, they created the game, they own the game, they can do whatever they want with it.People will leave, they won't get so much money - it's their problem, why you all mess with their stuff?

 

They spent months in planning and developing the rebalance, they were thinking that this will make the game better - well, me, you, many of the players don't agree with that, we don't like the rebalance (many of my friends, even a colleague left because of the rebalance), but there is nothing we can do.The rebalance will stay.At least for now.

 

I won't keep repeating the same thing, again and again, every day.Everyone is free to quit the game.Good luck.

bay tanki good luck (: back gamzer

[FederalBureauFBI 2,881]

Goodbye and Good luck.

-Next

[Bezerker 19]

Hi Tankers !

I have been lurking here in the forum for a while and enjoying Tanki for a bit now. It's been easy to play and fun but all that changed a month ago. I have not put a fortune into the game but I 'am annoyed that the company that produce Tanki have used such a low and trashy trick too basically "up" long term income. I have read some have put hundreds of dollars into there tanks. I feel Tanki could have added extra components too the game or added some extra value to generate more income instead of taking back what they had already sold you and selling it back too you for vastly inflated prices which is very wrong (extortion) and a very shabby way too treat there very loyal customer base. I also suspect but cannot prove and may be wrong that the sudden way that the servers are suddenly become very laggy and almost in some cases unplayable (They where certainly not like this a month or two ago on my machines) with almost no explanation from the technical staff or information about how long it will be before its resolved leads me to suspect that this is just a big refreshment and clearout of the old customer base (fresh money noobs required) although I may just be getting cynical in my old age.

 

Quote FederalBureauFBI

 

"All I know is that you're registered, right? --> When registering, you accepted the EULA ---> you read the EULA ---> you understood that all the payments you do are non-recoverable - then don't complain. You won't get your money back.

There is no theft. You ACCEPTED the conditions which say once you pay, you say 'bye' to your money. You accepted that. Now don't complain from the conditions. "

 

Actually because the crystals where paid for with real life, real world hard earned money with the contract of "pay X currency for Y (non tangible) product, this puts this issue into real world law. Effectively Tanki's position must then be justified in real world terms. At the moment they have kept totally silent on this subject letting the unpaid and quite frankly unjustifiably loyal admins/volunteers take the front line flak. My point being:

 

A:

Speaking as a large online retailer (bigger than Tanki's senior company BTW) international distance selling regulations that exist in most developed countries state there is no difference in the sale of a "Tangible" product or service, to a "non Tangible" product. The sale of an online currency (eg crystals) to purchase further non tangible goods (virtual tank components) is the same as selling real life book tokens to purchase books (tangible goods) You cannot sell a product or service to someone then take that product back with out the buyers consent at a later stage because it belongs too them not the retailer. It is just plain theft regardless of what is left in return e.g.: I steal your book back in the night and leave you some more book tokens at a seriously reduced value to the books original value. Even if the tokens left where of a higher value, it's still without consent and is considered theft. Even if it states the purchased virtual property remains the property of Tankionline.com. This is not an opinion its actual Law with real world legal precedent. Google it! Especially WoW item and account thefts, there has been several successful prosecutions for it in several countries in Europe and America.

 

Ref: Just one example:

http://www.mmo-champ...orld-quot-theft

 

Even if the Tanki contract states to the contrary of the law, the law still trumps there user contract, "(Insert Company name) reserves the right to change the contract at any time and without consent" is unenforceable/wrong in law and is always included in these standard user contracts for use, along with all the other vague butt covering attempts in the user contract to behave how they please which hold no precedent in law and this leads me to my second point.

 

 

B:

If you paid for your crystals via PAYPAL as I am sure a lot of you have. You have usually up to £500/$500 payback protection. Use it, it works! PayPal have a complaints systems If a 2nd party to a deal breaks there original sale of contract for whatever reason and refuses to return the payment they will (pending an investigation) return your money from there own pockets and then seek to pursue the 2nd party for the return. This also goes for most major credit card companies including Visa, MasterCard and American express.

 

A lot of you are asking what can we do about it and the admin and others are stating "nothing just suck it up" well that's wrong; Point

B:

above is what you can do about it. This company as with all companies are relying on the fact you do not know your rights or just cannot be bothered to/ or have the time to pursue it and will just keep playing and stump up to re-upgrade or go over to World of Tanks (which is brilliant BTW but not the same thing as Tanki) even if 50% of you leave it will not take long for you to be replaced with noobs who are keen to climb fast (read spend) and have no clue as too what this game used too be like and will happily pay the higher prices making Tanki more in the long run. It's a standard old skool business trick to increase long term growth, a short shock and then long term gains by refreshing the customer base, they calculated the percentage that would leave in disgust and what you spend vs. the long term benefits of new players re stocking the garage at higher cost and guess what! Depressing isn't it. REF: Ford - cost of fuel tank safety modifications vs. insurance payout to bereaved families (Google it)

Remember this only applies to crystal currency that has been purchased with real money with a proof of purchase not given or won in the game.

 

The following responses to legitimate complaints about this issue are unacceptable and mean nothing in the real world if you want to do something about it.

1) Quoting the standard template downloaded EULA

2) Stop whining it's happened and there is nothing you can do about it

The rebalance may be here to stay and that's for Tanki to decide ultimately, it's there choice but the interference in the pre-purchased items in your garage is very shaky.

 

 

I have nothing further to say on this except this is my experience in the real world selling online in a similar company. It's up to you users to take the action to get your money back or go elsewhere (WOT). I am usually found gaming in the Novalogic games and have always been treated very well by them. I am not going to reply to this or start debating the points above. Make your own minds up and then tell your gaming friends what you think Tanki's reputation is.

Ban me if you want admin I'am already in my Cruiser III on W.O.Ts playing capture the flag right now...Bye :P

 

Barnsey

I guess we will have to repeat Barnseys post. Instead of calling people smart or not, which childish and unprofessional, why not show that YOU are smart, answering posts about what is legal and what is not. We are talking about paying customers and LAW! No one is above the law. You are just incapable of answering the more complex questions and claims here, and you should simply just be quiet when the best you can do is to call people smart (and imply many are not). You simply cannot be mature enough to handle your job here. No one asked you to repeat the message. People expect some kind of official answer from tanki online. Not a parrot. Your role is insignificant as you cannot say anything while customers quote law. Step back.

"There is nothing we can do." Be happy that great people from world history was not like you. Step back.

[FederalBureauFBI 2,881]

We are talking about paying customers and LAW!

O rly?

 

ANY USE OF THE GAME AND ITS SEPARATE OBJECTS MEANS THAT YOU ARE ACQUAINTED AND AGREE WITH THE UNDERWRITTEN AGREEMENT, AND UNCONDITIONALLY ACCEPT ALL ITS TERMS.

IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH THE ENTIRE AGREEMENT YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO USE THE GAME AND ITS SERVICES AND YOU ARE OBLIGED TO LEAVE THE SITE IMMEDIATELY.

1.8. Entitlement for use of Game is given on the conditions “AS IS”. Owner doesn't give any guarantees concerning unerring, uninterrupted, contiguous work of Game, conformity of Game to the requirements and the expectations of User.

1.10. All payments made by User are voluntary, definitive and non-recoverable.

Edited December 22, 2012 by FederalBureauFBI

[Bezerker 19]

O rly?

You are still just a parrot. Why do you not answer and give qualified answers to RedSlayer and sgt.barnes that claims that this EULA is not legal when players purchase crystals in fx Europe? You just assume that the EULA you quote is all you need. Come on, answer the previous posts by fx sgt.barnes. Not quoting the EULA but get the facts right. The law. Don't answer me now, answer their posts that you ignored.

[r_kakashi450 16]

No one buys the crystals to go back old Tanki :D :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

[FederalBureauFBI 2,881]

You are still just a parrot. Why do you not answer and give qualified answers to RedSlayer and sgt.barnes that claims that this EULA is not legal when players purchase crystals in fx Europe? You just assume that the EULA you quote is all you need. Come on, answer the previous posts by fx sgt.barnes. Not quoting the EULA but get the facts right. The law. Don't answer me now, answer their posts that you ignored.

If you think that I'm a parrot - then ok, I won't talk.Talk with a lawyer and then post the results here.Good luck.

[r_kakashi450 16]

I paid almost $ 1,000

But disappeared

I thought you something but the truth you nothing

 

sorry about that but tanki online = Money laundering ;) :)

[r_S.Y.R.I.A0 1]

ok, i have alot to say about the balance.

1) at first i thought it was a good idea, now i dont.

2) the prices, why did you increase the prices?!

3) a question...was the balance just a way to get more money from loyal players? i think tanki got greedy with all the price crap, i agree 100% about the balance stuff like the ranks and such...but the prices ruined it

[RockandRide 12]

Get over it. You want the rebalance cancelled? Get a $10,000 lawyer when you spent less than $1000 on this game. Tanki is actually making more money now...

[FederalBureauFBI 2,881]

Get a $10,000 lawyer when you spent less than $1000 on this game. Tanki is actually making more money now...

Completely agree.

 

To all the people that want their money back: get lawyers, go to court and if you win the case (100% sure you won't), then get your money.You won't get them back in other ways, because the EULA you all accept when registering clearly says that firstly, you accept the game conditions AS IS, and the owner can do any changes, and secondly, that all the payments made are non-recoverable.

Edited December 22, 2012 by FederalBureauFBI

[r_kakashi450 16]

Completely agree.

 

To all the people that want their money back: get lawyers, go to court and if you win the case (100% sure you won't), then get your money.You won't get them back in other ways, because the EULA you all accept when registering clearly says that firstly, you accept the game conditions AS IS, and the owner can do any changes, and secondly, that all the payments made are non-recoverable.

 

 

 

Why you do not care about the players

We do not want to re-balance

70% of the players do not want to rebalance

Why do not you take the views of the players before applying any update

We have lived with the game for many years and we liked

Every day at leisure to get into the game and enjoy

All the people now are sad to what happened on the game

Everything now has become difficult

We are satisfied with the new version

But we are not satisfied to rebalance

 

Go to Facebook and see poll http://www.facebook.com/TankiOnline.en

 

 

 

So why not cancel rebalance if the players are not satisfied

Do you care about the money more than you care about the players??

 

Without players you are nothing !

 

c u

[r_kilaz0 10]

federal, just leave it alone. they aren't going to go away.

[ninja21503 0]

aww yeah 4k crystals

[nerka789 1]

lol