There is something wrong in Smokey Vs Thunder

[RockerGuitarist 11]

thunder lays on 3 times the damage as smoky (if at the same upgrade). It is the same gun pnly thunder is more powerful

[birdhunter321 4]

I didn''t bother to go for smoky M3 like before rebalance. The best gun in tanki has been nerfed for a gun that uses luck to make kills.

why not the smoky M3?

[Raphael2 3,263]

Just try.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q2mLM1YA_g

[Mr.SV.ENS 738]

Both guns are balanced now, stop complaining.

[r_AdvocatusDiaboli0 861]

I've already done a lot on this, you might want to take a read.

Analysis: Smoky vs. Thunder

[AntaresXT 12]

The possibility of critical hit for smoky, isn't how it shows on the chart! It comes, when player is being shot, so that comes very often, but what should've been done is what the table shows, so if Smoky M3 has 9% possibility of critical hit to appear, then it should come out approximately every 11th or 12th hit, but instead it comes out like the 7th or 8th usually. Plus Thunder needs more power anyway as M2 and M3, so there is no way you can spoil with the fact, that Smoky is overpowered and Thunder is as weak as M2 for Lieutenant :(

[M1A1Crosby 0]

well the thunder is a SHOTGUN type turrent so therefore it would have shorter range then smoky and therefore would lose damage capabllity over distance.

[r_DidYouKnowThat0 1,662]

I just realized something. There is a huge difference between Thunder and Smokey. In a ranged battle, Thunder has the accuracy of a Storm-Trooper. It relies more on the messy Splash-Damage. Smokey has more accuracy. Derp- Lol. I'm sure you all have noticed that, however I was in Serpuhov TDM I believe. I had M0 Smokey and another had M0 Thunder. He missed so many times. Lol!

[AntaresXT 12]

The thing why Smoky is overpowered is because of three reasons, that test did not show:

 

1. Thunder can kill itself from close distance; this is 40% less advantage for Thunder because smoky will always run at you and especially Freezes.

2. Smoky and Thunder, both from really far distance get hit like small amount of hp and Thunder more, but critical hit does not affect it and even from the furthest distance, it shoots like railgun and kills Thunder easily. So whilst Thunder struggles to kill Smoky, meanwhile Smoky can just kill Thunder with two critical hits and Thunder would've taken off only nearly half of the amount of hp for smoky.

3. The paint, that has 48% protection from Thunder is from MUCH lower rank, than the paint, that has 48% protection from Smoky.

 

These two points just mean, that Thunder is not useful in nor close distance nor far Distance, meanwhile smoky can shoot as much as it likes from close distance and kills enemies with critical hits simply like. This is a real disadvantage for Thunder, because there is no distance, of shooting enemy with full power without hitting yourself. My option is, that Thunder should not be able to hit itself when shooting from really close distance, otherways the gun is only barely good for Team battles otherways, it needs to use double power, to be good in the battle and then everyone would start using supplies, making Thunder the worst gun in the game. Isida is from the same rank as M3, but even in DM it's awesome in it's own way; you can even use M2 Isida for this, yah know...

 

And also, this is where I have to include railgun; why is there so much protection paints from shot-guns and so small from Railgun ei?!

Edited May 16, 2013 by AntaresXT

[USA-POWER 227]

Just try.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q2mLM1YA_g

That was through close distance, make it 3 times far and u will see the difference

[USA-POWER 227]

I've already done a lot on this, you might want to take a read.

Analysis: Smoky vs. Thunder

that was a very nice analysis, although remember, thunder will most of times need to use anti thunder paints for self protection, and non of antithunder paints has smokey protection.

Edited May 17, 2013 by USA-POWER

[Finesse 968]

Smoky doesn't have splash damage, thunder does.

So it's obvious smoky should win on 1 to 1, even if the statistics don't say so. (In this case, the statistics are wrong and need to be updated)

I didn't checked if the statistics were wrong, I assume you were right.

 

But what smoky lacks in splash damage, it adds up to damage... Thunder can do massive damage in cluttered spaces aswell;

and smoky would be terminated in a 1 to 1 there... simply because it doesn't have splash damage.

 

 

In other words; smoky is better in short both long (open) range... Thunder is more effective in Mid (cluttered) range.

 

 

agreed

Edited May 17, 2013 by Finesse

[Zues_God_of_the_Sky 2]

If u have been played command and conquer: kanes wrath before, the Nod's Redeemer will wins against GDI Mammoth Armed Reclamation Vehicle(MARV) 1on 1 because the MARV's cannons deliver splash damage...while the Redeemer's lasers deliver precision damage... This occurs in smoky and thunder 1 on 1 battles because smoky delivers precision damage and thunder delievers splash damage...hope u understand

This is name Tanki not that jibberish game... ._.

[USA-POWER 227]

People you are just missing the point.. smokey m3 is too far different from m2, but thunder m3 is with tiny difference from its m2.. anyway i am not anymore a thunder player.. all players are using anti thunder paints and it loses its power from a distance .. and when someone comes and stick on your tank then its pathetic .. twins proved to be faraway better than thunder, freeze, firebird.. and isida as well "with inferno its unbeatable:.. before the rebalance i was a rico player, i loved it, rico is for really skillful players unlike twins.. u just shoot anywhere and kill .. now this one too turned pathetic, however i noticed developers did improvements to rico m2 and m3 (they don't heat up fast as they used to be before) without writing down anything about ;)

Edited May 17, 2013 by USA-POWER

[NevilleChamberlain 0]

With my Hornet M1 / Thunder M1, I was battling a Hornet M1 / Smoky M1. I could kill him with 3 shots, and most of the time he was taking me out with 3 shots also.

 

Smoky M1 costs 11,000 and Thunder M1 38,600 - I thought to myself why did I bother to upgrade Thunder ??

 

Plus, the self-inflicted damage is a big disadvantage and as someone else mentioned, Thunder is not as precise a weapon as Smoky. People say how Thunder has splash damage, but I find this is of relatively little value.

 

Thunder M1 (at more than 3 times the cost of Smoky M1) is underpowered and does not have the benefit of a very useful 'lucky hit'.

[I.Devastation 2,053]

When i use it or get hit by it ,the correct amount of damage is given for me

[dungu 25]

The possibility of critical hit for smoky, isn't how it shows on the chart! It comes, when player is being shot, so that comes very often, but what should've been done is what the table shows, so if Smoky M3 has 9% possibility of critical hit to appear, then it should come out approximately every 11th or 12th hit, but instead it comes out like the 7th or 8th usually. Plus Thunder needs more power anyway as M2 and M3, so there is no way you can spoil with the fact, that Smoky is overpowered and Thunder is as weak as M2 for Lieutenant :(

Who says that the 'Crit' which is said to happen at 6% or 7% or even 9% possibility has to happen at the end of the shots?

[AntaresXT 12]

Who says that the 'Crit' which is said to happen at 6% or 7% or even 9% possibility has to happen at the end of the shots?

 

because of Maths, stupid :angry: <_<

 

100%

 

If critical shot is one, and 9% of possibility of coming out, how many shots is in 100%?

 

100 ÷ 9 = 11 %(Each shot, left with one percent)

 

This means, that as M3, Critical should come out at 11th or 12th shot, because there is one percent left, so -_-

 

Because, if crytical shot was 50% possibility, then it'd come out every second shot, right? Think in maths, and don't ask me stupid questions, okay?

 

That was through close distance, make it 3 times far and u will see the difference

 

+1 because as I said, Crytical shot shoots as Railgun, so note that! This is why everyone's scared of Smoky, which is why Critical shot should have distance difference and Shaft and Railgun, which are Sniper guns are supposed to be the ones to have the same amount in any distances. Note, that smoky is shot gun and just like every other gun, its normal shots depend on distance. You have to remember, that critical hit is Electricity literally and you do know, that Electricity power DOES change in different distance just like Solar power and everything else. Someone has to tell Admins, to fix crytical hit in far distances OR make thunder to have the same amount of shots, not depending on distance.

Edited May 18, 2013 by AntaresXT

[GoldRock 6,165]

because of Maths, stupid :angry: <_<

 

100%

 

If critical shot is one, and 9% of possibility of coming out, how many shots is in 100%?

 

100 ÷ 9 = 11 %(Each shot, left with one percent)

 

This means, that as M3, Critical should come out at 11th or 12th shot, because there is one percent left, so -_-

 

Because, if crytical shot was 50% possibility, then it'd come out every second shot, right? Think in maths, and don't ask me stupid questions, okay?

 

Ah, if only you were right -_-

 

That's not how it works. The probability of a critical hit doesn't 'carry over' to the next shot each time, it applies to each shot individually. You can't 'add up' the 9% chance for shots and say there's a 100% chance of a critical hit over 11 shots, because whilst you have multiplied 9% by 11, you have forgotten to multiply the 100% whhich it is out of by 11 too, and so 9/100 --> 99/1100. So if there is a 9% chance of a critical hit, this will be true for each shot separately.

 

This should mean that in theory, about 1 in 10 shots would be a critical hit (however, this is not always the case, as 10 shots isn't a very large sample size). However, the critical hit could occur anywhere in the set of shots, and may not occur at all, or it might occur a few times in a row. What would happen is not exactly determined, otherwise there wouldn't be a probability between 0 and 100%.

Edited May 18, 2013 by GoldRock

[r_tozzz0 1]

^ i approve this to be statistically correct :)

[red_tank_the_best 300]

This is maths class about two tank turrets and their power.

[AntaresXT 12]

^ i approve this to be statistically correct :)

 

Yes, but what that guy said there is declining 9% possibility. It's like there is no possibility in percentage at all and it comes at random like gold box. Well guess what; 9% is meant to be of a hundred and what it shows in the garage does not apply to what it does in the real game, so you can shut up with your infinite probability, people. What we're supposed to talk about here isnot the probability but power; I say Smoky needs distance dependance on critical hit as well as on its normal shots and Thunder needs rather more power or no possibility of selfdestructing when shooting...

[GoldRock 6,165]

Yes, but what that guy said there is declining 9% possibility. It's like there is no possibility in percentage at all and it comes at random like gold box. Well guess what; 9% is meant to be of a hundred and what it shows in the garage does not apply to what it does in the real game, so you can shut up with your infinite probability, people. What we're supposed to talk about here isnot the probability but power; I say Smoky needs distance dependance on critical hit as well as on its normal shots and Thunder needs rather more power or no possibility of selfdestructing when shooting...

 

I was not saying there was a 'declining' 9% probability - rather, you were saying that the probability increases with each shot whilst it actually remains constant for each.

 

For example, if I wanted to experiment this, we can safely say the the theoretical probabilty (the one it's meant to have) is 9%. Therefore, let's say I want to test this by getting my own experimental probabilities (probabilites obtained from experimenting). An example set of results is below:

- 2 crits out of 10 shots (20%)

- 7 crits out of 100 shots (7%)

- 98 crits out of 1000 shots (9.8%)

- 904 crits of out 10,000 shots (9.04%)...

...and so on. As we can see, our experimental probabilities get closer to the theoretical probabilty (9%) as we increase the sample size. We'd have to go on forever to actually match the two. So, it's not random, but it's not exactly determined either - there is a margin for 'error' between the two probabilities which decreases as we increase the sample size.

 

Anyway, I will not have this discussion any more, and so I will 'shut up', as you so kindly said.

 

Many Thunders use the self-destructing ability to their advantage, and SD on low health when they know they're going to be destroyed otherwise. Take that away, and you've taken away what can be an advantage of the weapon for most of the more skilled users.

Edited May 23, 2013 by GoldRock

[USA-POWER 227]

If thunder has the self-destructing ability then it serves just in DM and TDM, but real battles often are those of CTF specially with high rankers, u seldom see TDM, cuz they don't want isida to come and suck all the scores away.. nor the TDM serves the winner a lot

Anyway, maths don't match what happens with the real game, critical hits noticeably r much higher than the % mentioned on chart if taken within a specific period of time, and again there is no need at all to waste crystals on upgrading thunder m2 to m3.. thunder is the king until some ranks in the middle, after that its near to a clown

Edited May 23, 2013 by USA-POWER

[dardayy 493]

If thunder has the self-destructing ability then it serves just in DM and TDM, but real battles often are those of CTF specially with high rankers, u seldom see TDM, cuz they don't want isida to come and suck all the scores away.. nor the TDM serves the winner a lot

Anyway, maths don't match what happens with the real game, critical hits noticeably r much higher than the % mentioned on chart if taken within a specific period of time, and again there is no need at all to waste crystals on upgrading thunder m2 to m3.. thunder is the king until some ranks in the middle, after that its near to a clown

Totally agree +100