There is something wrong in Smokey Vs Thunder

[GoldRock 6,165]

That's if P(critical) is actually 0.06, as shown by the stats.

[KiwiZaphod 53]

That's if P(critical) is actually 0.06, as shown by the stats.

Well to put it another way - there's a 4% chance that it is 6%, and a 96% chance that it isn't. Better odds than you get in a casino...

[GoldRock 6,165]

True ^_^ Though this was only done with 100 shots, so I'm not sure how far you can rely on the data - 1000 shots would be a lot more conclusive, but that'd take a long time to do.

Edited May 27, 2013 by GoldRock

[KiwiZaphod 53]

True ^_^ Though this was only done with 100 shots, so I'm not sure how far you can rely on the data - 1000 shots would be a lot more conclusive, but that'd take a long time to do.

A couple of hundred shots would probably be enough. 100 measurements is a *little* on the light side as the chance is so small - 200-250 would nail it. But either way it is possible they have tweaked some of the gun statistics a bit and not let people know; its portably something they can track the impact of easily. Might not make a difference - most people have a pretty loose grasp of risk/probability, hence the number of people at casinos, playing the lottery and so on. Or smoking. Says the guy who lives on a major earthquake faultline :)

[GoldRock 6,165]

A couple of hundred shots would probably be enough. 100 measurements is a *little* on the light side as the chance is so small - 200-250 would nail it. But either way it is possible they have tweaked some of the gun statistics a bit and not let people know; its portably something they can track the impact of easily. Might not make a difference - most people have a pretty loose grasp of risk/probability, hence the number of people at casinos, playing the lottery and so on. Or smoking. Says the guy who lives on a major earthquake faultline :)

 

True, they might have done. The last bit is pretty ironic, though :lol:

[KiwiZaphod 53]

True, they might have done. The last bit is pretty ironic, though :lol:

Yeah well - single story wooden house, tin roof, 200 litres of clean drinking water, 2 weeks of food supplies, a camping cooker, and enough bleach and buckets for a make-shift toilet, and a solar charger for the cellphone. Not exactly luxury living, but well prepared.

[cavgt 0]

yikes. i just read the whole list and learned something. % is borrrrrrrrring ^_^

[Remaine 4,687]

I personally stay away from both of them.

[Dadisbetterthanyou 2]

I personally stay away from both of them.

Both of them are great. I don't understand why you say that. However, it is opinion, but I'd like to know what made you come up with that opinion?

[KiwiZaphod 53]

Hei I just thought of it; if Thunder would have so much power and in close distance it'd take off full hp then people wouldn't come close to it so much but instead they'd retreat and try to get away from it! This is another reason why Thunder needs more power; because people come close to it and make Thunder damage itself without escape. And the reason mid-range is bad is because it doesn't take long for your enemy to come closer from mid-rank to close up meaning; thunder really is useless...

Um - that's the whole point. Thunder - like all weapons - has good and bad points - good being splash damage, even through walls, bad being up-close its a suicide machine. Thunder players have to try and maintain that mid-range. Don't like it? Try a different weapon!!

[Remaine 4,687]

Both of them are great. I don't understand why you say that. However, it is opinion, but I'd like to know what made you come up with that opinion?

Thunder self-destructs you if you shoot too close to someone and I'm a close combat person so that sucks.

Smoky is just plain weak; that percentage thing is the only great thing about it; otherwise, it's pure crap.

 

So I stay away from both of them personally. I don't care who likes this or doesn't like it and that's my opinion; goodbye.

[dardayy 493]

I think at least they have to remove the self damage effect ..

Regarding the no difference btw thunder m2 and m3, then since microupgrades are coming soon, that will bring more difference btw the m2 and m3 , as more slots will be available for more options to boost than with m2 . but am not so sure yet .

Edited May 30, 2013 by dardayy

[Descape 16]

Some of you might have seen my opinion of Rebalance (see in thread: "If you were a developer what would you change") and here's how Smoky and Thunder should be balanced to be fair. Idk, but Thunder might turn out to be a bit too strong but in my Rebalance, Thunder is not as much overpowered as Smoky as Smoky is overpowered than Thunder in these days. Here's my 2nd updated version of the Smoky and Thunder:

 

Thunder is still wayyyy to OP

[dardayy 493]

Thunder is still wayyyy to OP

Dear you all are right, thunder is OP .. but remember the following 3 facts:

1- Thunder is mid range weapon and has a pathetic self damage effect that make tanks stick to your face

2- Thunder m3 is no different than m2

3- Thunder have no much options in paints, have to always use antithunder paint like rustle or emerald, to minimize the damage to itself, while with all the rest of guns you are totally free what paint you would like to use

[Manic_Depressive 0]

thunder is dead because u self destruct if u hit from close range

[KiwiZaphod 53]

If you *really* want the maths on this : Thunder M3 attacking a Smoky M3, both mounted on M3 Viking hulls with 242 HP

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

24.7 shots per minute gives 1 shot every 2.43 seconds, with damage of 63-85, or 62+(1-23)

First shot (T1) is at time zero, probability of a kill P(kill) is zero

Second shot (T2) is at 2.43 seconds, P(kill) still zero

T3 is at 4.86 seconds, P(Kill) is the chance that with three shots we have 242 HP damage.

This is the same chance as scoring 56 or more on 3 unbiased 23-sided dice (or spinners) : 242 - (3 x 62); using the WolframAlpha site : http://www.wolframal...th 23 sides >56

At T3, P(Kill) = 3.74%

At T4 (7.29s) P(Kill) is 100%, as (63 x 4) > 242

==================================

To sum up, for the above example:

T1 : 0 seconds, P(kill) = 0

T2 : 2.43 seconds, P(Kill) = 0

T3 : 4.86 seconds, P(kill) = 3.74%

T4 : 7.29 seconds, P(kill) = 100%

=================================

If the other tank is an M3 Smoky (29-36HP, 38.7 spm, 1.55 seconds per shot), only the critcial hits matter :

The smallest number of non-critical hits to kill the Viking M3 is 7 (242/36 rounded up), and S7 is at 9.3 seconds, and the Smoky gunner was turned to debris 2 seconds before this by the T4 shot.

Even with a critical, S1 and S2 cannot be kills. Timing wise the sequence is

S1/T1 at the same time, then S2, T2, S3, S4, T3, S5, T4

P(kill) at S3 is the chance that there was a critical in that period (0.08 x 0.92 x 0.92) x 3 (as the order of the critical doesn't matter) : 6.77%

P(kill) at S4 is the chance you didn't have a kill at S3, multiplied by the chance of a critical : 7.46%

P(kill) at S5 is calculated as above : 7.40%

================================================

Now if that is all correct (and I gave it a good shot) you can combine these to give a %age chance to win for each Tank, in the unlikely event of a head-to-head slug-fest with no paints at the high ranks you need to be to have the M3 kit...

Edited June 2, 2013 by KiwiZaphod

[KiwiZaphod 53]

Head-to-head, high rank, paint free slug-fest calculation part 2

=============================================

For the Smoky to win we need to add the chance of a kill at S3, S4 and S5, and factor in the small chance of getting killed by T3

So this is 6.77% + 7.46% + (100%-3.74%)*(7.40%) = 21.35%

So the M3 Smoky has a 21.35% chance of winning, which is a better odds than tossing three coins and gettign all heads, or rolling a total of 7 on two standard size sided dice.

===============

You can do this for all the weapons, tanks and even include paints, if you like, using the same approach.

It doesn't change the fact that decent tactics, strategy, and getting the first shot in and accurately counts for a lot!

Edited June 2, 2013 by KiwiZaphod

[Descape 16]

Dear you all are right, thunder is OP .. but remember the following 3 facts:

1- Thunder is mid range weapon and has a pathetic self damage effect that make tanks stick to your face

2- Thunder m3 is no different than m2

3- Thunder have no much options in paints, have to always use antithunder paint like rustle or emerald, to minimize the damage to itself, while with all the rest of guns you are totally free what paint you would like to use

I ment buy that picture just look at stats its a huge margin!

[KiwiZaphod 53]

Even if the Smoky attacks from behind, the best they can hope for is the Thunder is blocked and can only turn its turret; with half a second to react and two second to turn the Smoky only gets in S6 and S7, which lifts its chances to 36.24%. S8 gives a whopping 99% chance of a kill as those non-criticals come into play, but that really needs the Thunder player to be of low quality. Shame that you can turn turrets through obstacles and walls in Tanki - otherwise you could do this :

[dardayy 493]

Even if the Smoky attacks from behind, the best they can hope for is the Thunder is blocked and can only turn its turret; with half a second to react and two second to turn the Smoky only gets in S6 and S7, which lifts its chances to 36.24%. S8 gives a whopping 99% chance of a kill as those non-criticals come into play, but that really needs the Thunder player to be of low quality. Shame that you can turn turrets through obstacles and walls in Tanki - otherwise you could do this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1eFePf6mWM

:D the video shows the american tank was smokey, while the german one was Thunder :D nice one

[Manic_Depressive 0]

:D the video shows the american tank was smokey, while the german one was Thunder :D nice one

 

smoky*

 

lrn2spel

[dardayy 493]

GOSH this video shows a real firebird tank !!!

and the other video shows hundreds of smokey tanks with hornet hulls!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7ws3jctoK8

[dardayy 493]

But this is too sad .. all wars wars wars :(

[KiwiZaphod 53]

:D the video shows the american tank was smokey, while the german one was Thunder :D nice one

Quite so - tactical win against the odds!

[GTDONE 98]

I ment buy that picture just look at stats its a huge margin!

those are not the real stats of the guns those are fantasies and dreams made up by Wiki