Let's Discuss Railgun!

[sm0ky 92]

my rail is m0  :P  but i have ubgrade ny rail 50/50  :D

With what you have spent you could have bought yourself a Gunslinger Kit (M1 Railgun/Hornet plus M1 Lion T-D protection module [Hammer/Twins/Ricochet] which is highly useful protection).

[Metaphor 538]

It used to take artistic mastery in handling the Railgun.

1 - you needed to make sure you hit your target and,

2 - reposition yourself for both coverage and timing of the optimum firing angle while waiting for the reload

 

It was because of the long reload that made using Railgun an art.

 

Now it is noobed with a faster reload and nerfed in damage. Anybody can use it as a regular turret now.

Just like they are making Thunder and Smoky more like each other - reloads closer, damage slightly closer, nerf the critical.

 

Like buying cars. They all used to look unique.  Now they all look the same...

Both are so true; although DR/Dictator-Rail ( not sure if that abbreviation is correct) will add an interesting twist with the new reload. 

[r_Precise4 38]

I think we all know about the recent updates that happened , and one of them was about railgun's reload.Many of the XP players , including me and my friend  didn't like it and hope you remove it.
Whoever thinks the same reply me ASAP.http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showuser=519153

Edited October 21, 2016 by r_Precise4

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

I still think it's highly probably that there will be an alteration for railgun that brings back the old characteristics.  And the whole point of making rail reload faster is to sell the Dictator-Railgun format.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

I still think it's highly probably that there will be an alteration for railgun that brings back the old characteristics.

I think so too.

But unfortunately XP/BP is (today) without alternations

[Reaper 992]

New update ruined it

[ethanisme 1,115]

New update ruined it

Basically.

[Halogen.H 3]

has anyone field tested shell stabilisation?  

 

any thoughts?  i cant make sense of the possible damage output.  [peak damage -25%] < [bottom damage +50%].

 

how does that exactly work?

Edited October 23, 2016 by Halogen.H

[Amagi 1,728]

New update ruined it

About time they did it too.

 

P.S. No salt please.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

I have not tested it, but I see the use of it.

If you do the maths and calculate the new max and min damage, you will see that the new average damage is almost as the former average damage.
So there is not much benefit to gain.

But on the other side, a Rail can 2shot a same-M-level Wasp/Hornet - in _average_.

 

"in average", because there is a chance for the hornet/Wasp to survive: If the railer has bad luck and deals [an average]+[a minor] shot, the incoming Wasp/Hornet will survive definitely.

 

The field stabilisation eliminates this chance

Edited October 23, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[Halogen.H 3]

I have not tested it, but I see the use of it.

 

If you do the maths and calculate the new max and min damage, you will see that the new average damage is almost as the former average damage.

So there is not much benefit to gain.

 

But on the other side, a Rail can 2shot a same-M-level Wasp/Hornet - in _average_.

 

"in average", because there is a chance for the hornet/Wasp to survive: If the railer has bad luck and deals [an average]+[a minor] shot, the incoming Wasp/Hornet will survive definitely.

 

The field stabilisation eliminates this chance

 

Thanks - I did the maths and made some assumptions as follows

 

A. the variation declared in the stats does not refer to absolute change in damage.

B. the variation declared in the stats refers to the compression of original normal distribution as per http://en.tankiwiki.com/In_depth:_Game_Mechanics#Railgun (i.e. gap between MinHP and AveHP reduces by 50% and respectively gap between MaxHP and AveHP reduces by 25%)

C. the stats declared are actually accurate and reflected in the game mechanics

D. Post-stabilisation damage probability follows a normal/Bell curve (like the current one)

 

 

I checked assumption c) by recording 29 consecutive shots with my (MUed) M2 railgun at a Titan M1 and Wasp M1 (no protection)  - each.  A total of 58 shots.

I noticed a significant variance in the average.  

 

AveHP vs TitanM1    = 866

AveHP vs WasppM1 = 821

 

 

Maybe the small sample size drives this.  When combining the two sets into one superset, the distribution gives a reasonably good histogram with a bucket size of 50 - with the average pretty much where it's meant to be : 860 (ish).

 

Following the maths, where

HP = Hit Points (i.e. Damage done)

 

SMinHP = Standard Min HP

SMaxHP = Standard Max HP

SAveHP = Standard Average HP

 

SSMinHP  = Shell Stabilised Min HP   =   570

SSMaxHP =  Shell Stabilised Max HP = 1149

SSAveHP =  Shell Stabilised Ave HP  =   860

 

Calculating SSMinHP

 

 

SSMinHP = SAgvHP - [sAvgHP-SMinHP]/2

                 = [sAvgHP + SMinHP]/2

                 = 715

 

SSMaxHP = SMaxHP - [sMaxHP - SAgvHP] * 25%

                  = [3*SMaxHP+SAvgHP]/4

                  = 1077

 

not sure what the probability distribution is for the new model, so for simplicity I will assume a bell (like before) which puts the average in the middle, so

 

SSAveHP = 895

 

(Just for the heck of it, the formulae for the new SS values will be at the end of the post.  Haven't done algebra for a while, and this is a bit of fun.)

 

Summary :

 

Cost of upgrade = 100,000 crystals

MinHP : 570 >> 715 (up 25% net)

AveHP : 860 >> 896 ( up 4% net)

MaxHP : 1149 >> 1077 (down 6% net)

 

Is it worth it? hmm... hmmm... dammit, I really wish it was, but sounds kinda crappy overall.  Also, no plans for sales on the modification are planned - so no way of getting a discount on it.  If anyone rents it and has a noticeable performance improvement, would love to hear from you.

 

Anyway - formulae as promised, in terms of the min and max as described in your current the gun properties in the garage:

 

SSMinHP =  [3*SMinHP + SMAxHP] / 4

SSMaxHP = [sMinHP + 7*SMaxHP] / 8

SSAveHP = [7*SMinHP + 9*SMaxHP ] / 16

 

 

I checked the results, accurate to 4 decimal places.  Enjoy!

Edited October 23, 2016 by Halogen.H

[dan146_tanker 770]

​​You have to fight you're modification to have 2 shots with rail. For example, I can fight M1 and M2 hornet and it takes 2 shots to kill them. M3 even without protection takes at least 3-4 shots. In maps like sandbox I can see why people complain. But I still like the new railgun. Faster reloading :D

​Railgun is more fast paced so no more hiding and running, in my 1v1s its been pure skill, no one ran or hid. :)

​Edit: Font size changed.

Edited October 23, 2016 by dan146_tanker

[Halogen.H 3]

follow-up to my previous post.  messed around with the maths a bit more, translated to currently published MU costs, so a fair bit of assumption going on.

 

the moral of the story is:

 

if i want to increase my average damage, doing it via MUs costs me  around 20k (i.e. 1/5th of the modification cost)

In the interest of fairness, if I want to increase my min damage, doing it via MUs costs me around 200k (i.e. 2* the modification cost).

 

However, since overall the average damage output will be, erm... the average, no matter how I spin it around, this mod sounds massively under-powered for the price.

 

Basically, I can spend 100k to guarantee that I can one-shot an unprotected, un-MU'ed Wasp M0.  Big whoop.

 

Shame, I really wanted to boost my rail, but this doesn't look like the way to do it.

 

Maybe I'll just spend 30k on a freeze M2 in the sales, now THAT is how you OP a turret.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Halogen.H

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

well thats the point of alternations: they should not make your turret more powerfull, they should allowe you to change the characteristics (like thunder gets faster reload but less damage).

At the moment some alternations truely make the turret stronger, but if I may guess this is for two reasons:

• if someething makes your turret stronger you pay for it. They rebalance it later, after enough players spend crystals on it. Oh no, wait.. this would be cruel. Forget this one.
• The balance has to be mass tested and will be changed later on to achieve true balance. On no wait.. this sounds to much like a fairy tale :P

 

nah.. to stop kidding: the answer is most likely somewhere in between ;)

Edited October 23, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[NoobTanker18 63]

It upsets me majorly. This morning I shot an AFK player using hornet M0 and I had double damage when i shot him, and it did the normal damage so this player didnt have a module to protect against it, and he didnt die. It upsets me a railgun on double damage fails to kill an m0 hornet now. heck i switched to the players team and pressed the v button to see no module at all and no MU upgrades on him. It's upsetting.

[dan146_tanker 770]

It upsets me majorly. This morning I shot an AFK player using hornet M0 and I had double damage when i shot him, and it did the normal damage so this player didnt have a module to protect against it, and he didnt die. It upsets me a railgun on double damage fails to kill an m0 hornet now. heck i switched to the players team and pressed the v button to see no module at all and no MU upgrades on him. It's upsetting.

Weird, when I have rail I can kill hornet M2 with one shot when I'm on double damage.

[NoobTanker18 63]

WEIRD IS MY POINT, DUDE!

 

Devs ruined rail..... D:

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

They need a rail alteration which gives players back the old rail- but of course it will cost 100k crystals ;)

[Heles 9,220]

Rail is still god for me :D 

[The_Arcane_Swordsman 0]

I really like Rail, it's a very powerful weapon, in the right hands. It's very fun to use, and is good for skill-shots.

[The_Arcane_Swordsman 0]

It upsets me majorly. This morning I shot an AFK player using hornet M0 and I had double damage when i shot him, and it did the normal damage so this player didnt have a module to protect against it, and he didnt die. It upsets me a railgun on double damage fails to kill an m0 hornet now. heck i switched to the players team and pressed the v button to see no module at all and no MU upgrades on him. It's upsetting.

Well, I think I can try to explain this. If you are sure he had no MUs, no Modules, and he was on a Hornet M0, and you did have DP, I guess it must have been a one-in-a-hundred shot, with Rail's damage nerf. But, I get what you mean.

[nabiL94 159]

How to keep my aim correct with rail when I attacked by weapons which disturb aim like smoky and rail itself???

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

How to keep my aim correct with rail when I attacked by weapons which disturb aim like smoky and rail itself???

That's just a skill you've gotta learn. Even pro high-rank rail players get their aim thrown off by smoky (obviously those smokies are more skilled than the ones you face). Smoky could really be considered the bane of rail.  As to your point about other rails, why don't you just throw THEIR aim off? That aspect you learn in xp/bp.

Edited November 2, 2016 by r_I_already_won0

[asdasemm 925]

New update ruined it

yep... railgun was good for its damage and not reload.... they spoilt it by increasing reload and decreasing damage

[Epic_Space_Mango18 592]

I made a kill as I was falling upside down. dont ask me how. I dont even know. I just shot to try and level my tank and i blew up a tank.