Let's Discuss Smoky!

[Thekillerpenguin 1,731]

Does the alteration (+27% impact minus the Critical Shot) make a noticeable difference?

From playing around with it on the test server, it does. It's quite easy to make light hulls miss (more leeway if you don't hit the corners and more reward if you do), and if they are using something like Railgun, it's very difficult for them to even get a bead on you. However, the lack of critical damage severely hampers its performance against medium and heavy hulls, since the impact force isn't too significant on them and the damage rate is low without criticals.

[NewbieCake 3,067]

Trying to make my alt have Smoky M2 before WO3 (currently at Staff Sergeant). Wish me luck.

[sm0ky 92]

Trying to make my alt have Smoky M2 before WO3 (currently at Staff Sergeant). Wish me luck.

It's pretty strong.  :ph34r:

[sm0ky 92]

From playing around with it on the test server, it does. It's quite easy to make light hulls miss (more leeway if you don't hit the corners and more reward if you do), and if they are using something like Railgun, it's very difficult for them to even get a bead on you. However, the lack of critical damage severely hampers its performance against medium and heavy hulls, since the impact force isn't too significant on them and the damage rate is low without criticals.

Actually, Smoky would play the part of the role of interceptor whose primary objective is to knock off the aim of Railguns and Shafts mounted on medium to lighter hulls and not necessarily destroy them until either of those turrets have expended their shot.

Edited October 12, 2016 by sm0ky

[Lost_cause 0]

Hi guys, just wondering, but what do you think of the alterations? 

Btw i was playing on my noob account (this one) and it is sooo easy to get crazy KDs and DLs. 

  

[wolverine848 13,097]

The smoky is very effective when playing hide and seek. The reason why is because smoky reload time is really quick, but it's damage is so weak. 

 

I would say the opposite actually.

Because the damage is weak you need to take advantage of it's fast reload.

That means a constant rain of fire upon the enemy whenever possible. You can't do that with "hide-and-seek" (I assume same thing as peek-a-boo?)

 

Example vs rail. If smoky plays peek-a-boo vs rail it will lose. The rail does so much damage per shot that a smoky cannot afford to trade one-for-one shots, which is it what a rail will be happy to do. It will wait for the re-charge then appear again and shoot - doing > 2x the damage smoky is inflicting. Only way a smoky stands a chance is if it has a much heavier hull than the rail.

[epickiller546 241]

Im thinking of getting Thunder m3, or Smoky m3 Which do you think I should go for and why? 

[wolverine848 13,097]

Hi guys, just wondering, but what do you think of the alterations? 

Btw i was playing on my noob account (this one) and it is sooo easy to get crazy KDs and DLs. 

  Best KD.jpg

Smoky alteration of losing critical for gaining +27% on impact?

For current smoky I think that is terrible. That's a lot of damage loss vs a small increase to possibility of knocking off enemy aim. There might be a few situations where that comes in handy (such a protecting an area where impact has good chance to disrupt enemies driving. But overall a bad trade-off.

 

Might be slightly more useful IF they nerf the critical as proposed. In that case you are not losing as much damage - the critical will be so weak as to not matter much at all.  Then perhaps it will be worth it.

 

Until you get real rewards for having "high" or "good" K/D I wouldn't worry about it. It does nothing for you.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Actually, Smoky would play the part of the role of interceptor whose primary objective is to knock off the aim of Railguns and Shafts mounted on medium to lighter hulls and not necessarily destroy them until either of those turrets have expended their shot.

Problem is, the game does not give points for throwing off the other guy's aim ... especially true in DM battles.

[sm0ky 92]

Problem is, the game does not give points for throwing off the other guy's aim ... especially true in DM battles.

Useful for CTF, especially when facing 1v1 against a light hull or slow reloading turret.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Useful for CTF, especially when facing 1v1 against a light hull or slow reloading turret.

But you already have impact force w/o the alteration. The alteration is significant only for those individual shots that would not deflect enough with normal impact force, but do deflect enough with the additional 27%. My guess this represents a very small percentage of shots taken.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Useful for CTF, especially when facing 1v1 against a light hull or slow reloading turret.

That's a pretty specific example of battle.  Still don't think the trade-off is worth it for most situations.

But since you can switch it out depending on circumstances, IF you have the crystals go for it.

[Tani_S 736]

Is there a damage decrease for the critical shot when you hit a distant tank?

Edited October 18, 2016 by Tani_S

[Tani_S 736]

I noticed that the ranges of Smoky and Thunder will be exactly the same after the update and this led me to compare Smoky with Thunder a bit more detailed (all values are after rebalance). These two midfield weapons will become significantly more similar in my opinion. However, Smoky has the critical shot, whereas Thunder has splash damage. Smoky used to have the better impact force, but Thunder will have a better one afterwards.

 

I calculated the damages per second, for Smoky without and with critical damage, with the assumptions, that every fifth shot will be a critical hit and criticals won't have dmg. decrease on far distances. Considering that Smoky should be better in a 1v1 direct shootout, I think his damage will be quite low, since Thunder still has splash damage, which I've not included in here.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Tani_S

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

I calculated the damages per second, for Smoky without and with critical damage, with the assumptions, that every fifth shot will be a critical hit and criticals won't have dmg. decrease on far distances. Considering that Smoky should be better in a 1v1 direct shootout, I think his damage will be quite low, since Thunder still has splash damage, which I've not included in here.

I'm not sure if Devs have confirmed if Smoky's critical remains constant over long distances.

Also not sure if Thunder's Splash is added to damage on it's target. I always thought Splash was collateral damage to tanks near the target.

[Tani_S 736]

I'm not sure if Devs have confirmed if Smoky's critical remains constant over long distances.

Also not sure if Thunder's Splash is added to damage on it's target. I always thought Splash was collateral damage to tanks near the target.

I think I have seen a hint somewhere in the forum, that said something about the critical shot and distances, but I forgot where... I have been thinking the same that splash is just collateral damage of tanks nearby.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Devs have not confirmed that critical damage does/does not decline with range.

A guy here in the forum read my question about it and tested it on the testserver; he said that the critical damage is truely not declined and deals full 5xx hp over any range (which is also the only usefull thing.. ense you could actially forget about it).

 

For your comparsim between thunder and Smoky you should take into account the weak damage, that is dealt beyond the "min damage range". This value is significantly different.. smoky has about 10% while Tunder claims to have 50%. This, together with the splash.. rocks.

 

Smoky has slightly (!) better DPM on close ranges which is compensated more then enough by splash damage.

On long ranges Thunder has reasonable more DPM then smoky, even if I consider the critical hit chance without a decline.

[Tani_S 736]

Yea, I noticed the difference in Weak damage too, it's incredible. I'm glad I bought Thunder M3 a while ago  :ph34r:

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Is there a damage decrease for the critical shot when you hit a distant tank?

No, the full critical damage is applied regardless of range. I tested that much on the test server last weekend.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Devs have not confirmed that critical damage does/does not decline with range.

A guy here in the forum read my question about it and tested it on the testserver; he said that the critical damage is truely not declined and deals full 5xx hp over any range (which is also the only usefull thing.. ense you could actially forget about it).

 

For your comparsim between thunder and Smoky you should take into account the weak damage, that is dealt beyond the "min damage range". This value is significantly different.. smoky has about 10% while Tunder claims to have 50%. This, together with the splash.. rocks.

 

Smoky has slightly (!) better DPM on close ranges which is compensated more then enough by splash damage.

On long ranges Thunder has reasonable more DPM then smoky, even if I consider the critical hit chance without a decline.

Is that true about Thunder having the 50% damage in the min damage range? Holy Cow.

[Tani_S 736]

For your comparsim between thunder and Smoky you should take into account the weak damage, that is dealt beyond the "min damage range". This value is significantly different.. smoky has about 10% while Tunder claims to have 50%. This, together with the splash.. rocks.

That weak damage is applied for shots hitting beyond the minimum damage range and is 50 % of the maximum damage, right? The wiki page just talks about "normal damage", whatsoever this is.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Tani_S

[LittleWillie 3,199]

I noticed that the ranges of Smoky and Thunder will be exactly the same after the update and this led me to compare Smoky with Thunder a bit more detailed (all values are after rebalance). These two midfield weapons will become significantly more similar in my opinion. However, Smoky has the critical shot, whereas Thunder has splash damage. Smoky used to have the better impact force, but Thunder will have a better one afterwards.

 

I calculated the damages per second, for Smoky without and with critical damage, with the assumptions, that every fifth shot will be a critical hit and criticals won't have dmg. decrease on far distances. Considering that Smoky should be better in a 1v1 direct shootout, I think his damage will be quite low, since Thunder still has splash damage, which I've not included in here.

These values seem to reflect the current situation not the post-update situation.

 

I did a rough calculation comparing the two. If I recall correctly the m2 Smoky's DPS did about 16% more than Thunder's DPS. At m4 Smokey's disadvantage had dropped to about 11%. With Thunders m2 alteration she gains about 6.25% improved DPS so that makes the weapons even more similar. I do agree they are much more alike now than they are dofferent. 

 

Therfore: Thunky, or Smonder.

Edited October 18, 2016 by LittleWillie

[Tani_S 736]

I took post-update values for this. Anyway, I like Thunky more than Smonder  :D

Which Smoky M2 DPS were you talking about, was it minimum or maximum, that was 16% higher than Thunder's DPS?

 

 

No, the full critical damage is applied regardless of range. I tested that much on the test server last weekend.

Very much appreciated, thank you!

Edited October 18, 2016 by Tani_S

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

@weak damage:

the definition is unclear, as they do not state which is the base value for the % value.

I asked about it in the wiki-thread but it was not very fruitfull yet.

 

However.. the german wiki stated it is a % value from max damage. Having some caluclations on DPM and so on, I have to say this makes most sense over all.

 

still.. 50% is decent. Especially, as the splash comes too, which kicks in full force on tanks around your target.

Over all Thunder deals more damage in average.. and as your exposure time is lower (you can spend more time behind cover) you should get the batter deal with it in midfield and defense.

Smoky could be a more offensive turret if the impact force works; if you like to rush in and play fully exposed.. but actually then I would chose twins or Rico (the dpm of twins is just crazy and the range is fine if you know how to reach an enemies base with cover; while the Ricos timeToKill is great).

 

 

@ LittleWillie,

during your smoky tests on the testserver.. did you notice that the impact force was.. well.. not so usefull?

I had the impression that those smokys did push my tank.. but it was a lot easier to handle them with my rail then in todays balance settings (in the tesserver I had far less misses due to smoky impacts in my wasp then usual).

Edited October 18, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[Tani_S 736]

Good thoughts!

 

Do you know what the entry Impact Force of splash for thunder means, is it only an impact force of the splash or is it the splash damage or is both kind of the same??