Let's Discuss Smoky!

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Maybe the stats in the wiki are correct, but there is another "range model" for the critical shot (less decrease in damage over range).

At the moment we have no clue.. except we test stuff by ourselfes.

The English wiki guys can only incorporate data that they receive from the dev's

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Maybe we could work on our own wiki...another website with reliable and tested statistics....

[Epic_Space_Mango18 592]

Moo

[Tani_S 736]

Maybe the stats in the wiki are correct, but there is another "range model" for the critical shot (less decrease in damage over range).

At the moment we have no clue.. except we test stuff by ourselfes.

The English wiki guys can only incorporate data that they receive from the dev's

 

TBH I cannot see any model in here  :D These are some values I collected after the rebalance in live battles with M1 Smoky once and paired normal shots with critical shots. There might be some values that are distorting coz of modules or maybe shifts in range phases (if there any anymore atm) but these are the values that were the closest to each other. The values are sorted by the absolute damage values: the highest damage values are on left of the x-axis and far away shots are on the right. 

 

 

You could delete some of the outliers, to get a better trend, but idk if that helps much. The data of both charts are the same, but I deleted two outliers here:

 

 

It might be better to go in battles together and do some testings, to get better results.

 

P.S. Wow uploading a pic into the forum is quite an act, especially if I follow the forum manual...

Always saying "You are not allowed to use that image extension on this community."

Edit: ah finally it works with BBCode (Forums) instead of that image button.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Tani_S

[Skills.n.Girls 767]

There is no better offense than Smoky M2 users. Little XP/BPs M2 in normal battles get rekt easily. :D

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

There is no better offense than Smoky M2 users. Little XP/BPs M2 in normal battles get rekt easily. :D

Ricochet is a better attacker IMO. Usually the defense is not composed of xp/bp players :D .

[Epic_Space_Mango18 592]

Ricochet is a better attacker IMO. Usually the defense is not composed of xp/bp players :D .

With its high impact force and quicker output of shots and increased ammo gives SMoky users at close range a challenge. M0s even get me quite a lot. I avoid the M1 users. The rare times I see an M2, I hit the friggin dirt!

[r_Maverick7771 3]

Smoky is good to use at low levels because of its versatility, cheapness, and the m1 unlocks early too.

 

What is the best and effective all-purpose turret at m2: rico, twins or smoky 

[Epic_Space_Mango18 592]

Smoky is good to use at low levels because of its versatility, cheapness, and the m1 unlocks early too.

 

What is the best and effective all-purpose turret at m2: rico, twins or smoky 

M2 rico wrecks everything in sight! Holy crud!

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Twins and Smoky I consider the best M2s.

 

Then firebird and shaft tied (I would have put firebird in front but with the burn time nerf I consider them equal now. )

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

@Smoky Critical damage
 
With the help from Shedinja from the Wiki Thread, we finally got the clues, how the damage-over-range model works.
The model she explained is 100% complient with my M0 tests from today morning.

Here is the link to the wiki thread, where shedinja explained it LINK
 
And here is the picture for Smokys Damage over Range

[Epic_Space_Mango18 592]

Twins and Smoky I consider the best M2s.

 

Then firebird and shaft tied (I would have put firebird in front but with the burn time nerf I consider them equal now. )

M0 firebird actually does afterburn now...so slight you dont notice, but it does! I hate that...

[wolverine848 13,097]

@Smoky Critical damage

 

With the help from Shedinja from the Wiki Thread, we finally got the clues, how the damage-over-range model works.

The model she explained is 100% complient with my M0 tests from today morning.

 

Here is the link to the wiki thread, where shedinja explained it LINK

 

And here is the picture for Smokys Damage over Range

So within "max Dmg range" damage is variable, down to min damage?

 

And beyond that all damage drops toward "weak damage"? At 100m an M3 smoky could do much less than 354 dmg?

 

And critical really only reliable within the "max Dmg range"?  (opposite of what we hoped for)

 

PS: how do I hide an image when quoting? (without deleting)

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

yes

yes, yes

yes (yes)

by editing the quoted message and adding a spoiler for the image

 

the percentages of the distribution propability are a very rough indication.. most shots dealt [average damage] +/-10% for Smoky.

Edited November 16, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[wolverine848 13,097]

yes

yes, yes

yes (yes)

by editing the quoted message and adding a spoiler for the image

 

the percentages of the distribution propability are a very rough indication.. most shots dealt [average damage] +/-10% for Smoky.

Ugh.

That bites.

Jeebers.

 

Do other weapons that deal min/max damage perform this way?  I hope so else smoky is weaker than imagined.

Maybe that explains Thunder issues on not inflicting the 1050 damage...

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Do other weapons that deal min/max damage perform this way?  I hope so else smoky is weaker than imagined.

Maybe that explains Thunder issues on not inflicting the 1050 damage...

Yes, that explains Thunder

 

IMHO the following turrets follow the principle to have a "full damage" to start from, that is somewhere between min and max damage:

 

 

• Smoky
• Thunder
• Twins ( +bullet dies out at min.Dmg.Range)
• Rico (very, very likely) ( +bullet dies out at min.Dmg.Range)
• Railgun (max.Dmg.Range infinite)

those turrets have no random min/maxdamage to start from:

• Fire
• Freeze
• Isida
• Hammer
• Vulcan

Shaft:

• Shaft sniper (minDmg and maxDmg do not derive by a Gauss curve, but the charge stauts. The max.Dmg.Range infinite, confirmed by Tani_S & I_already_won)

   

• Shaft arcade (The max.Dmg.Range infinite, confirmed by Tani_S & I_already_won)

  minDmg = maxDmg <- no gauss curve, but dependent on the charge status. See that great description from I_already_won:

Actually, shaft arcade has min-max depending on the charge-up as well. Shaft is quite a complicated weapon and there are many confusing stats.  If you had just fired a sniper shot, you are allowed to shoot an arcade shot as soon as the bar is halfway full, which means it will do half a normal arcade shot's damage (but you can also wait until the bar is full) However, after you just fired an arcade shot, you have to wait until the bar is full again to fire another one, and this will do max arcade damage.

 

 

 

So if we compare turrets in the future, we actually have to compare the average damage on the given range.

And.. knowing by heart that thunder has a weak damage of 50%.. this changes A LOT.

Edited November 16, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[Epic_Space_Mango18 592]

Anybody got the Alteration for Smoky?

[Tani_S 736]

Sorry for the stupid question, but what is the purpose of the Firebird and Freeze max. ranges?

 

In general Rail and Shaft's snipe mode are attributed to be the turrets without range limitations. So they should be independent from ranges. Not sure about Shaft's arcade, but I can test it with my M2.

 

And one thing, that came to my mind: the Hammer alteration makes the pellets cone tighter, so you can hit distant tanks better, but it doesn't extend the ranges, so it doesn't make too much harm in the distance...

Edited November 16, 2016 by Tani_S

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Fire+Freeze Max damage range:

from range=0 to range=maxDmgRange -> the turret deals it's max damage;

from range=maxDmgRange to range=minDmgRange -> the turrets damage declines to maxDmg x weakDamage (to zero)

beyond minDmgRange the turret deals weakDamage = 0% in case of Fire and Freeze

 

Hammer pellets deal a constant damage (no gauss curve) and have the maxDmgRange / minDmgRange model.

But at longer ranges some of the pellets simply miss the target.

I have no estimtion for the effect on real battlefield, as I never was too much into hammer

[Tani_S 736]

Yes, I tested it and I can confirm that both Shaft modes are independent from range. Maybe the intention of the arcade mode numbers was to show the range independence too:

 

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Thanks, I changed the list above accordingly and mentioned your nick :)

[LittleWillie 3,199]

@Smoky Critical damage

 

With the help from Shedinja from the Wiki Thread, we finally got the clues, how the damage-over-range model works.

The model she explained is 100% complient with my M0 tests from today morning.

 

Here is the link to the wiki thread, where shedinja explained it LINK

 

And here is the picture for Smokys Damage over Range

 

 

Thank you for this.

 

It would seem that much of the confusin come from the fact the rems "max damage" and min damage" are used to describe two different concepts:  There is a bell-curve-ish distribution to any give shot at any given range (man / min). And there is a max dmage range and a min damage range - and the extended "mind damage" range of 10% ... I think if they had thought of more distrinctinve names there'd been less confusion,

 

But annnnyway, thanks for this. It makes results understandable. And it also shows why the smoky m2 'impact alteration' cost more DPS than I'd assumed!

 

50k for less damage you say? Well well ... NO DEAL!  :P 

[Tani_S 736]

Fire+Freeze Max damage range:

from range=0 to range=maxDmgRange -> the turret deals it's max damage;

from range=maxDmgRange to range=minDmgRange -> the turrets damage declines to maxDmg x weakDamage (to zero)

beyond minDmgRange the turret deals weakDamage = 0% in case of Fire and Freeze

 

Hammer pellets deal a constant damage (no gauss curve) and have the maxDmgRange / minDmgRange model.

But at longer ranges some of the pellets simply miss the target.

I have no estimtion for the effect on real battlefield, as I never was too much into hammer

My assumptions/understanding was, that Fire and Freeze have only one Damage (=constant damage, so no gauss curve). With fire's afterburn there comes also the two afterburn parameters into it: The afterburn is between "Min. burning damage" and "Max burning damage".

That's why it's a bit irritating for me when you talk of their max. dmg.

 

I will try some test on hammer's range model. Also one weird rebalance thing is that Hammer now has  10 % weak damage  :huh:

 

Oh and thanks for mentioning my nick  :D

Edited November 16, 2016 by Tani_S

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Ugh.

That bites.

Jeebers.

 

Do other weapons that deal min/max damage perform this way?  I hope so else smoky is weaker than imagined.

Maybe that explains Thunder issues on not inflicting the 1050 damage...

Yes this is exactly the Thunder issue in graphic form.  Andabout Smoky not thunder. But thunder's profile looks the same I will wager - just with different damage values.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Yes, that explains Thunder

 

IMHO the following turrets follow the principle to have a "full damage" to start from, that is somewhere between min and max damage:

 

 

• Twins
• Smoky
• Thunder
• Railgun (whereby here the max.Dmg.Range is infinite)
• Rico (not checked, but very, very likely)
• Shaft in it's sniper shots (confirmed by Tani_S)
• Shaft in it's arcade shots (confirmed by Tani_S)

 

those turrets have no random min/maxdamage to start from:

• Fire
• Freeze
• Isida
• Hammer
• Vulcan

 

 

 

 

So if we compare turrets in the future, we actually have to compare the average damage on the given range.

And.. knowing by heart that thunder has a weak damage of 50%.. this changes A LOT.

I'm pretty sure Hammer's damage is variable, what with how the Wiki talks about damage from individual pellets hitting. Maybe the damage of each pellet is a constant? But the number of pellets hitting varies?

 

Duh should have just kept reading

 

 

Hammer pellets deal a constant damage (no gauss curve) and have the maxDmgRange / minDmgRange model.

But at longer ranges some of the pellets simply miss the target.

I have no estimtion for the effect on real battlefield, as I never was too much into hammer

Edited November 16, 2016 by LittleWillie