Let's Discuss Smoky!

[Akame 4,580]

how bad is facing 50% protection with Smoky ?

you have M4 ?

Anyone who uses smoky as a default module combination either doesn't have other modules, or doesnt know what actually is OP in the game, I never use smoky prot, never have I been threatened by them unlike Rail/Twins/Freeze/Rico/Thunder/Isida/Fires

[gokuMI6 1,290]

Anyone who uses smoky as a default module combination either doesn't have other modules, or doesnt know what actually is OP in the game, I never use smoky prot, never have I been threatened by them unlike Rail/Twins/Freeze/Rico/Thunder/Isida/Fires

Oh you saying smoky is not OP at M3 ?

 

the thing is any turret which annoys the team they take protection 

I am starting to see this now in my battles , cause more put money into modules starting from my rank

[splitterpoint 10,986]

how bad is facing 50% protection with Smoky ?

you have M4 ?

Yes Smoky was my first M4, protection makes a huge difference like with all turrets. Short range guns with high damage output are affected less I guess since the protections are %-based and they do a lot of 'shots' or- damage clusters per timespan.

 

Smoky is already pretty weak in dms but it has those critical shots and the direct hits + knockback. That makes it a worthy opponent. I mainly use the knockback alt in open maps where I face enemies head-on. I like how Smoky's main ability doesn't get affected when enemies use protection paints; where it does with Freeze's freezing. Knockback is always there.. and no one is tampering with the reload either lol.

 

But yeah, you want to deal damage.. if that damage gets cut in half it feels like you're shooting with potatoes.

[Akame 4,580]

Oh you saying smoky is not OP at M3 ?

 

the thing is any turret which annoys the team they take protection 

I am starting to see this now in my battles , cause more put money into modules starting from my rank

I'm speaking of mainly m4's, where legends are mostly fully maxed, and have 50%'s vs everything, smoky hasn't really been one of the top 7 contenders imo and experience. yes it may have the criticals, but unless u can kill steal, u will never be 1st in DM's, even if u have 50% against the player on top which is usually a freeze/rico/twins, yes smoky may be a lil annoying, but it's not as tough as can be, it could use a buff tbh

[gokuMI6 1,290]

Yes Smoky was my first M4, protection makes a huge difference like with all turrets. Short range guns with high damage output are affected less I guess since the protections are %-based and they do a lot of 'shots' or- damage clusters per timespan.

 

Smoky is already pretty weak in dms but it has those critical shots and the direct hits + knockback. That makes it a worthy opponent. I mainly use the knockback alt in open maps where I face enemies head-on. I like how Smoky's main ability doesn't get affected when enemies use protection paints; where it does with Freeze's freezing. Knockback is always there.. and no one is tampering with the reload either lol.

 

But yeah, you want to deal damage.. if that damage gets cut in half it feels like you're shooting with potatoes.

Oh ok thank you i have been in legends battles seen some M4s but never saw  50% guys so thank you for the reply

 

I'm speaking of mainly m4's, where legends are mostly fully maxed, and have 50%'s vs everything, smoky hasn't really been one of the top 7 contenders imo and experience. yes it may have the criticals, but unless u can kill steal, u will never be 1st in DM's, even if u have 50% against the player on top which is usually a freeze/rico/twins, yes smoky may be a lil annoying, but it's not as tough as can be, it could use a buff tbh

Oh , Smoky struggles in M4 , so i think i will make Rico my first M4 

[thesquarerootof2 165]

There was a point after the second rebalance when Smoky's crit was changed to infinite range, but in return it only did like 100 damage more than a regular hit. I didn't see Smoky becoming bad at all during that time; it was still pretty good. That says something. 

[Tani_S 736]

I hugely underrated Smoky's M2 alteration, but the number of shots are more important. One-/two-shotting Wasps and Hornet with DD is fun  :D

Two-shotting a viking with DD on an undrugged Viking is not rare too. It kinda is like a mid-range Hammer.

[thesquarerootof2 165]

I often feel that Smoky is a turret for masochists, especially because of that dropoff (and now cheap M1 protection via kits). Those max-range crits (with DD) are our payback moments, especially when you one shot a light Hull (at lower ranks). 

I often feel that Smoky counters Railgun too much, especially because of that high mid-range DPS which usually kills light-hull Railguns before they can fire off a second shot, and the high impact force, which usually assures no second shot even if they survive. Those long-range snipes are Railgun's payback moments, which should NOT be spoiled by suddenly getting 50-60% of your HP (or instant-death, if Smoky is using double-damage) zapped off by a crit. I fully support Smoky countering Railgun at short and mid range but not at long range. 

 

I AGREE that Smoky becomes far less OP at M2 and M3 ranks, but at M0 and M1 it is too OP. 

 

Honestly the better way to go would just keep the crit damage high but make it not infinite range, instead of nerfing damage and preserving infinite range. Keeps it good at short and mid range. Makes it horrible at long range. Just like it should be. 

[LittleWillie 3,199]

The Smoky Titan M1 is an incredible temporarily overpowered combination.

 

 

And as it ages it mellows into merely A Very Powerful combo. :)  But you are right. Smoky m1 and Titan m1 both get IMMENSE performance boosts from MU investment.

 

BUT THE THING IS THAT SMOKY SHOULD BE ABSOLUTE CRAP AT LONG RANGE. RIGHT NOW IT'S NOT ABSOLUTE CRAP. I HAVE ISSUES WITH THAT

 

or something like that anyways

It IS crap at long range.  The CH ability is the only thing that prevents it from being utterly helpless beyond 70 meters.  A crit hit at range can get a long range danger to back off. But then it is IMPOSSIBLE for Smoky to land another CH in less than 5 seconds.  You cannot find cover in 5 seconds?

 

Long range CHs do not make Smoky a long range fighter.  Smoky will lose long rage duels.

 

Meanwhile Thunder is dropping 50% on you with splash from across the map. That will kill you a lot more reliably.

 

thats too much at low level the CH % is less already so no need for another nerf 

Smoky, Vulcan, and Striker are three turrets least deserving a nerf I'd suggest.

 

I hugely underrated Smoky's M2 alteration, but the number of shots are more important. One-/two-shotting Wasps and Hornet with DD is fun  :D

Two-shotting a viking with DD on an undrugged Viking is not rare too. It kinda is like a mid-range Hammer.

Yes the ,2 alt is pretty useful at times.  e.g. I find myself using it on Massacre a lot because the long range guns on that map can make close approaches hazardous^squared.  So sometimes I am reduced to plinking at long range.  For that you NEED the crits so my Assault Ammo is no good.  If you want CHs you might as well use the m2 alteration.

 

I remember the fist time I realized you could occasionally 1-hit a light hull.  I had just killed or seen killed a Wasp.  I saw it spawning and hit it the moment it went solid. It was DD CH with the alt, about 1775 points and BOOM!  1-hit kills there's a sensation Smokers don't experience very often. :)

[gokuMI6 1,290]

Smoky, Vulcan, and Striker are three turrets least deserving a nerf I'd suggest.

yes apart from SMoky both reall needs a Buff , Striker needs a vertical Auto aim Buff very fast

i am missing Vikings too often

 

And Hornet smoky is just pain to play with lag's

but if you have no lag's it is the best combo for Smoky imo

[thesquarerootof2 165]

It IS crap at long range.  The CH ability is the only thing that prevents it from being utterly helpless beyond 70 meters.  A crit hit at range can get a long range danger to back off. 

In my opinion, Smoky should be utterly helpless beyond 70 meters. It should not even be allowed the POSSIBILITY to make a long-range danger back off. 

[LittleWillie 3,199]

In my opinion, Smoky should be utterly helpless beyond 70 meters. It should not even be allowed the POSSIBILITY to make a long-range danger back off. 

Yep that is your opinion but it is one shared by very few others. No probls ya gotta listen yo your heart.

[gokuMI6 1,290]

In my opinion, Smoky should be utterly helpless beyond 70 meters. It should not even be allowed the POSSIBILITY to make a long-range danger back off. 

:o

Why man ?

We only have CH after that range , and that is just a small portion of the whole shots

And the normal shots do no DMG after that range they don't even tickle the enemies

 

If they nerf they shall first Nerf Thunder's Range then touch smoky

[thesquarerootof2 165]

Thunder is more long-range dedicated than Smoky though

[gokuMI6 1,290]

Thunder is more long-range dedicated than Smoky though

They were the quite same before

And you are saying here that nerf the Infinite range of CH 

and imo the 50% week DMG of Thunder >>>>>>>> CH

[wolverine848 13,097]

Thunder is more long-range dedicated than Smoky though

Thunder already is way better than smky at long range. it's not even close.

 

What is your reason for nerfing the smky Critical? 

 

Are you actually worried about the 1-in-5 shot that does more than a pittance of damage?

Go buy a smoky module then.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

:o

Why man ?

We only have CH after that range , and that is just a small portion of the whole shots

And the normal shots do no DMG after that range they don't even tickle the enemies

 

If they nerf they shall first Nerf Thunder's Range then touch smoky

 

 

Thunder already is way better than smky at long range. it's not even close.

 

What is your reason for nerfing the smky Critical? 

 

Are you actually worried about the 1-in-5 shot that does more than a pittance of damage?

Go buy a smoky module then.

He is a WO1 that obviously ran into a good Smoky user with an m1+10/10.  So that Smoky rekked him and he decided Smoky needs to be nerfed.  It is just another example of TO's odd progrerssion ladder in which Colonel level firepower can be brought down to the low WO ranks.

 

The ladder is the culprit not Smoky itself. As we all know this suggestion is going nowhere.

[gokuMI6 1,290]

He is a WO1 that obviously ran into a good Smoky user with an m1+10/10.  So that Smoky rekked him and he decided Smoky needs to be nerfed.  It is just another example of TO's odd progrerssion ladder in which Colonel level firepower can be brought down to the low WO ranks.

 

The ladder is the culprit not Smoky itself. As we all know this suggestion is going nowhere.

yes ,

The thing is it gets pretty bad after WO1 till you get your first M3 / m2 10/10

MM puts you with m2 10/10 when you have m1 , and when you have m2 10/10 it puts you with m4s

Not every time but it happens frequently

[LittleWillie 3,199]

That is not MM that is TOs crazy progression ladder. The only way to avoid this is to make every game comprised of 16 players of the eexact same rank.  Shake hands with the 2.5 hour wait time --- MM or not MM  expect the 2.5 hour wait. MM gets blamed for all TOs sins.  

 

At any rate, the proper response is not this one. This proposal makes the entire CH concept more or less pointless. Smoky would have to be given something else to make it a powerful sub-70 weapon oh wait we call that HAMMER.

 

Suggestion = DOA. Further discussion on it = DOA.

 

PS:  All my accounts are in the m2 fighting m4 ranks.  They were BEFORE MM and they are NOW.  All my accounts.

This is the easiest level of competition I have faced since I began TO. Because why? Because now I have a full protections library, and, m4 is not much better than m3, AND it is not like every foe owns an m4 anyway.

 

This constant institutional pessimism among TO's player base is really dumbfounding to behold. So many TO players are so bad you can beat them if they had m9 tanks.

Edited July 18, 2018 by LittleWillie

[gokuMI6 1,290]

That is not MM that is TOs crazy progression ladder. The only way to avoid this is to make every game comprised of 16 players of the eexact same rank.  Shake hands with the 2.5 hour wait time --- MM or not MM  expect the 2.5 hour wait. MM gets blamed for all TOs sins.  

 

At any rate, the proper response is not this one. This proposal makes the entire CH concept more or less pointless. Smoky would have to be given something else to make it a powerful sub-70 weapon oh wait we call that HAMMER.

 

Suggestion = DOA. Further discussion on it = DOA.

 

PS:  All my accounts are in the m2 fighting m4 ranks.  They were BEFORE MM and they are NOW.  All my accounts.

This is the easiest level of competition I have faced since I began TO. Because why? Because now I have a full protections library, and, m4 is not much better than m3, AND it is not like every foe owns an m4 anyway.

 

This constant institutional pessimism among TO's player base is really dumbfounding to behold. So many TO players are so bad you can beat them if they had m9 tanks.

Yes The skill level has dropped very much

 

DOA ?

 

Yes i should have mentioned the rank it is not the MM it is the rank limits that needs fixing 

and the waiting time will be fixed when we have more player's  :(

[thesquarerootof2 165]

He is a WO1 that obviously ran into a good Smoky user with an m1+10/10.  So that Smoky rekked him and he decided Smoky needs to be nerfed.  It is just another example of TO's odd progrerssion ladder in which Colonel level firepower can be brought down to the low WO ranks.

 

The ladder is the culprit not Smoky itself. As we all know this suggestion is going nowhere.

That's not what happened. I play Railgun on two Staff Sergeant accounts; the Smokies in question were M0s and M1s; not too high above me. I usually do rek them by sniping them from long-range, however I always got frustrated when they suddenly land a crit on me and take out 50-60% of my HP from cross-map (and also screw up my aim). Even more annoying when they happened to be using a Double Damage and insta-kill me. At least for this time, it wasn't rank/equipment imbalance, it was Smoky itself. 

Edited July 19, 2018 by thesquarerootof2

[gokuMI6 1,290]

That's not what happened. I play Railgun on two Staff Sergeant accounts; the Smokies in question were M0s and M1s; not too high above me. I usually do rek them by sniping them from long-range, however I always got frustrated when they suddenly land a crit on me and take out 50-60% of my HP from cross-map (and also screw up my aim). Even more annoying when they happened to be using a Double Damage and insta-kill me. At least for this time, it wasn't rank/equipment imbalance, it was Smoky itself. 

 

This is an old account that I don't play on anymore; I only use this because it's the only one that can post in all areas of the forums, being WO1  :P

Well apart from the CH were they doing any DMG ?

Aim , yes smoky is supposed to be used as an anti-aim turret {wth lol }

It should compromise the aim of Rail

Why do you think there is smoky but not rico/thunder in most E-sports formats after rail

 

Oh thats nice , so you started over ?

[thesquarerootof2 165]

Aim , yes smoky is supposed to be used as an anti-aim turret {wth lol }

It should compromise the aim of Rail

Not from 32,984,780,293 meters away

 

Oh thats nice , so you started over ?

Well I ditched this one a long time ago. I tried out Smoky some on two other accounts (and yes i did find it very OP), and then i made two other ones to try Railgun after deciding Smoky wasn't my playstyle. 

[gokuMI6 1,290]

Not from 32,984,780,293 meters away

 

Well I ditched this one a long time ago. I tried out Smoky some on two other accounts (and yes i did find it very OP), and then i made two other ones to try Railgun after deciding Smoky wasn't my playstyle. 

:)

at that distance what we got is only CH and those are 1 in a 5th/6th/7th shot

And at that distance you get killed by smoky means {if you use Long range / mid range turret}

You have very bad aim 

 

Oh ok , Ever tried M3 smoky it is not OP it is okay 

At m2 smoky is OP i agree why not complain about Twins it is even OPer

Edited July 19, 2018 by gokuMI6

[LittleWillie 3,199]

That's not what happened. I play Railgun on two Staff Sergeant accounts; the Smokies in question were M0s and M1s; not too high above me. I usually do rek them by sniping them from long-range, however I always got frustrated when they suddenly land a crit on me and take out 50-60% of my HP from cross-map (and also screw up my aim). Even more annoying when they happened to be using a Double Damage and insta-kill me. At least for this time, it wasn't rank/equipment imbalance, it was Smoky itself. 

You do not understand. At low levels a CH does something like +50% damage above normal.  At m4 a CH does something like +30% above normal.  The CH become less and less significant the higher up you rank. So this issue you feel is so significant goees away by itself once you have gained a small amount of experience and rank.

 

The 2nd thing I suspect you do not understand is an m1 Smoky can have several mu steps on it.  A full m1+10 steps is extremely powerful compared to m0 or m1 gear with no MU.

 

Your proposal would chance Smoky into a weapon with the same range limitations as Hammer with a DPS of about 40%. You may as well just ask for Smoky to be removed from the game.

 

The vast majority of players see Smoky as slightly underpowered if anything.  So your proposal here is simply not going to happen... for many many reasons.   But it was a good discussion and that's valuable in itself.

Edited July 19, 2018 by LittleWillie