Let's Discuss Supplies!

[Gabe2607 499]

There are three ways to obtain supplies:

• Supplies sporadically fall from the sky during gameplay (see Drop Boxes)
• Supplies can be purchased for crystals or real moneys in the Shop

[...] Combine supplies from the Garage with the ones you get on the battlefield to make your tank even more deadly.

 

http://en.tankiwiki.com/Supplies

 

Every time you post, you highlight even more your ignorance about game mechanics.

 

And back to the Teacher character... Resuming... you tell us "Supplies haterz", I clear that our biggest problem is with drugs, historically called that way as explained by Mafioso more than twice, not with the Drop Boxes. And you start to link, color... :wacko:  Luckily we escaped another useless Gif...

[Gabe2607 499]

That is why none plays your videogame...

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

And back to the Teacher character... Resuming... you tell us "Supplies haterz", I clear that our biggest problem is with drugs, historically called that way as explained by Mafioso more than twice, not with the Drop Boxes. And you start to link, color... :wacko:  Luckily we escaped another useless Gif...

Exactly. I have no problem with drop boxes. They add strategic elements into gameplay. Don't play dumb, please.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

I understand the rationale of having "Supplies" aka "Pick-ups" aka "Power-ups" available in a computer game. They add variety to game play. They provide the game company with something to sell to raise revenue. I actually support the rationale.

 

The key is in the implementation. Let's take the overhead view in order to sum up why TO's Supply system is a detriment to the game. Let's see where the problem lies first.

 

I actually do not have any problems with the concepts of a Repair Kit and the Mine. Virtually all games with a "health" function also have a "heal" function. The Mine directly add a new tactical wrinkle that is entirely consistent with the idea of tank combat. We can talk about adjusting their exact workings and how they are obtained, but these two Supply concepts are OK. 

 

The weakness is found in Supplies #2, #3, and #4. Again, I agree with the concept of enhancing the tank's performance. I disagree with the implementation. The best way I can illustrate the weakness of this implementation is this.

 

If Tanki Online simply sped up every turret and hull by 40% it would be like every tank was forever using all three Supplies:  Double Damage, Double Armor, and Speedup all the time always. Because DA and DD simply cancel each other out. All that drugging, all those Crystals and Euros and Rubles and Dollars are spent to arrive right back at the starting point ... except everyone is driving faster.  

 

In other words, in the final analysis, in the end-game, you are buying DA and DD Supplies to accomplish... exactly nothing. The people who buy into such a system are chumps. Tanki is the only game I've played where I see so many players dislike that game's Power-Up concepts. I think this is the reason.

 

TO's "Increase Offense" Supply should do this by speeding up turret turning/acceleration and the weapon's reload rate.

 

TO's "Enhance Defense" Supply  should do this by speeding up the hull's travel/turning speeds/accelerations.

 

These two enhancements would depend on the player's skill to translate into exactly how much more damage would be dealt or avoided. It would not be this simplistic doubling effect which ultimately cancels each other out. And when not canceled out, dominates game-play rather than skills doing so.

 

As for the new Supply #4 (because obviously the speed-up is redundant) I do not know. Someone on the TX forum suggested a Smoke Grenade. That too would - if viable - fit in as do the Mines. An idea I had was to enhance the function of Modules somehow. But I am sure we could think of something.

 

in summary the point is the current system's simple doubling function is lopsided when it is effect. And when both side use it ... it is the same situation as if it had never been coded into the game.

 

Wouldn't it just be better if TO's system had Supplies that did not simply multiply damage and hit-points, but instead enhanced the ability of players to display their actual skills in battle?

 

The answer is not in saying no to drugs, but in demanding better drugs.

Read this, and take the time to understand it. It sums up a lot of my points better than I could explain myself.

 

Now, answer this: You seriously think games turn one-sided and boring because of drugs?  The vast majority of battles become one-sided because one team is spamming their number keys too much.  As for boring, a battle without anyone drugging is a memorable and highly enjoyable experience. I have the feeling you can't properly defend yourself against my question, and you didn't even answer it directly, so I will state it again:

 

Does it give you satisfaction to make other players frustrated and unhappy?

 

Drugging against other drugging Legends is one thing. Drugging against M2 Generals is another.

 

Druggers are really starting to ruin Tanki for me.  In a battle I just came out of there were a bunch of druggers on the other team, in Opposition. I specifically targeted those druggers and left the other opponents alone, even if they were trying to kill me.  Those poor druggers ended up with a k/d of about 1 (which probably made them super sad) because of me, and because I was dislodging them from their spawn-kill zones I was helping my team tremendously.   I make it my goal to specifically target druggers in most battles, unless their team is losing really bad or our team has lots of druggers as well.  This serves them right.

[wolverine848 13,097]

It was RU2 I believe, Sure why not its only 5k and can be made back very quickly

I knew it was not an EN server.

 

I checked today at 5:55 pm est. 3 games. All Arena. That's it.

 

So your solution is kinda... not a solution.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Exactly. I have no problem with drop boxes. They add strategic elements into gameplay. Don't play dumb, please.

Drop boxes are only a problem when the teams are uneven in terms of number of tanks.

 

A 7 vs 4 pretty much means they have control of the map. And thus the free supplies. So then they dominate even more by grabbing the free supplies on the way to spawn-kill.

Defending team does not stand a chance.

 

But this is more of a numbers imbalance. The supplies just makes it worse.

Edited November 20, 2016 by wolverine848

[wolverine848 13,097]

I knew it was not an EN server.

 

I checked today at 5:55 pm est. 3 games. All Arena. That's it.

 

So your solution is kinda... not a solution.

 

But I do appreciate you answering my query.

[wolverine848 13,097]

What stopping you playing on RU?

I'm a big fan of being able to communicate with the team I'm playing with

[sarvesh820 2]

can new supplies like smoke grenade can be added

[Error_the_dark 0]

But when gold boxes drop, health doesn't work.  Its annoying and pathteic. can it be fixed...ever!!

[illi2104 55]

Considering it? Lol they would lose about half their players. 

My question was addressed to Tanki staff, your opinion I already knew. Anyway, yes I do expect Tanki to do something about those 'noob drugger' insults and consider also my proposal at the same time. They would certainly get a lot new players if they started to carry out their own rules. I_already_won, I would be very happy to welcome any constructive ideas to make those insults stop from you, too, but so far we have not received any. Instead you have only understated abuse.

 

'noob' and 'drugger' are probably the most commonly used words in Tanki chats (as some of you were so keen on statistics, why hasn't anybody come up with statistics on that?). It really does not need any kind of provocation for those words to appear in the chats again and again. Just in case someone is so childish that would claim that the use of supplies is such a provocation, it is not as using supplies is a completely valid and expected behavior in a standard battle and it also takes place in the game and not in the chat. I would assume that currently over 95% of all first provocations are calling someone a noob or a drugger (feel free to show me the stats to prove me wrong). After all, if the automatic ban was implemented according to my proposal, it would not matter at which point any recordings have been started.

 

Earlier we discussed the levels of insults. Somebody had an opinion that insulting someone's mom is very bad. I agree on that, but at the same time I do not understand why insulting my daughter should be accepted. If Tanki accepts insulting my daughter, shouldn't it automatically give me the right to insult someone's mom? I've never done that (insulted anyone's mom) and I would never like to do that, I'm just trying to give something to think about. I feel that is extremely unfair and indifference towards insulting my children really makes me angry. Actually, I remember also a couple of times when someone insulted my mom to me in the chat. It did not feel even close to as bad as when I see my daughter being insulted. Of course those insults hurt every other child and every other player as well. Ps. Don't even try to claim that addressing an insult directly to its target (daughter, mom or whatever) is less severe than addressing it to somebody else.

 

I think somebody blamed me earlier for ignoring a problem that according to the blamer exists in the way the supplies are implemented in Tanki. On the other hand I have been adviced to use the 'ignore' function in the chat when someone insults me. I find that quite illogical. I don't know it it was because of Tanki staff having read this discussion or if it was just a coincidence but yesterday I even noticed an automatic message in Tanki server chat that adviced people to use that 'ignore' function in case they encounter harassment. I hope that kind of hiding the issue is not Tanki's (at least final) solution to this very severe problem. A big part of the hurt that insults cause comes from their publicity. It does not go away if you close your own eyes from it. You still know that all your friends and everybody else see how you are being insulted. The situation gets even worse if you know that Tanki staff is not even trying to do anything about it.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

 

 

1. I am not insulting you. I have never insulted you.  Please keep that in mind.

2.Why would I waste my time counting words used in chat? I am aware that the word "drugger" is used many times. I will not deny the facts.  It is your conclusion you take from it that is so invalid.

 

 

I want you to ask your daughter:  Do you get satisfaction from making other non-drugging players frustrated and unhappy? I want you to ask yourself that as well.  

 

P.S. This is not an insult. Do not be such a whiner to pretend it is. It is merely a question I want you to consider.  

[Maf 32,300]

Mafioso, who today called the category Druggers too (LOL)

Well, you can obviously say "supplies" instead of "drugs", but what do you call players, who use supplies, instead of "druggers"? Suppliers?  :D

[Gabe2607 499]

 

My question was addressed to Tanki staff, your opinion I already knew. Anyway, yes I do expect Tanki to do something about those 'noob drugger' insults and consider also my proposal at the same time. They would certainly get a lot new players if they started to carry out their own rules. I_already_won, I would be very happy to welcome any constructive ideas to make those insults stop from you, too, but so far we have not received any. Instead you have only understated abuse.

 

'noob' and 'drugger' are probably the most commonly used words in Tanki chats (as some of you were so keen on statistics, why hasn't anybody come up with statistics on that?). It really does not need any kind of provocation for those words to appear in the chats again and again. Just in case someone is so childish that would claim that the use of supplies is such a provocation, it is not as using supplies is a completely valid and expected behavior in a standard battle and it also takes place in the game and not in the chat. I would assume that currently over 95% of all first provocations are calling someone a noob or a drugger (feel free to show me the stats to prove me wrong). After all, if the automatic ban was implemented according to my proposal, it would not matter at which point any recordings have been started.

 

Earlier we discussed the levels of insults. Somebody had an opinion that insulting someone's mom is very bad. I agree on that, but at the same time I do not understand why insulting my daughter should be accepted. If Tanki accepts insulting my daughter, shouldn't it automatically give me the right to insult someone's mom? I've never done that (insulted anyone's mom) and I would never like to do that, I'm just trying to give something to think about. I feel that is extremely unfair and indifference towards insulting my children really makes me angry. Actually, I remember also a couple of times when someone insulted my mom to me in the chat. It did not feel even close to as bad as when I see my daughter being insulted. Of course those insults hurt every other child and every other player as well. Ps. Don't even try to claim that addressing an insult directly to its target (daughter, mom or whatever) is less severe than addressing it to somebody else.

 

I think somebody blamed me earlier for ignoring a problem that according to the blamer exists in the way the supplies are implemented in Tanki. On the other hand I have been adviced to use the 'ignore' function in the chat when someone insults me. I find that quite illogical. I don't know it it was because of Tanki staff having read this discussion or if it was just a coincidence but yesterday I even noticed an automatic message in Tanki server chat that adviced people to use that 'ignore' function in case they encounter harassment. I hope that kind of hiding the issue is not Tanki's (at least final) solution to this very severe problem. A big part of the hurt that insults cause comes from their publicity. It does not go away if you close your own eyes from it. You still know that all your friends and everybody else see how you are being insulted. The situation gets even worse if you know that Tanki staff is not even trying to do anything about it.

 

Whatever (to me totally wrong) idea you have for Devs/Mods, this is not the proper Topic. Search and you will find. Concerning the contents, I stay away because we could not be farer.

 

For a start, its usually not a good idea to complete a full 15 min battle(well I rarely do anyway). If you join from the start your team is more open to have non-trier mults put into it, as there are often more battle slots for the mults to take up. Best to just jump in with about 8 to 12 mins left, so you can see if there are any mults in battle. Not forgetting those guys that don't log out properly and leave their tank as cannon fodder while your team gets spanked. Also, look at the participants in battle, some guys are always good value to help overturn a battle with....add them to your friends' list, they may not necessarily by heavy druggers. Could be known isida users, freeze defenders, good snipers for bigger maps etc.

 

The math:-

 

 

Supply kit costs 17500 cry for 500 supplies

17500 / 500 = 35 crystal per supply

So lets say I joined a 12 min battle and used 1.2 supplies per minute(my current "drugging" rate)

12 x 1.2 = 14.4

14.4 drugs x 35cry = 504 crystals that I need to win to break even.

(note*  I bought all of my current supplies during the recent supply sale, so for me, its 30% less)

 

 

I also usually join teams that are getting owned, cos they have a lower EXP amount between them. So if I help these guys win and then finish as one of the leading players in the team, I get a nice share of the fund and teammates benefit from a winning fund, I doubt these guys will complain about me jumping in & drugging TBH.

 

 

 

 

I can also hit this 504 crystal target in a losing team...by basically not giving up. Keep the battle as close as possible(in terms of flags/pts) and you can still get a reward that covers what you spent on crystals for the supplies. Even if you don't, I can write off any losses made in a particular battle cos I get freebie mission supplies...

Use this battle as an example(check out the enemy winning rewards too)

 

 

 

 

I only got 414 crystal reward, so I was 90 cry down on the 504 needed, which is around 3 supplies. Just write them off as freebie mission supplies...no problem. If I get much less than this then I did a noob battle selection or fought like a clown, so I deserve to lose out. :)

 

On freebie supplies. Legends get about 25 RK and 70 of other drugs from weekly mission chains. As well as sometimes getting daily missions like I had just yesterday, where the reward was 35 DD and 35 DA, or even the gain 99999 exp for loads of supplies' or crystals missions. Not gonna bother working out the percentage of my supplies cache that's from missions, as its obviously dependent on what missions I've had/accepted, I'd expect its a decent amount though.

 

So, if you know what you're doing you can win battles far more often than not. In high fund maps rewards can range from 700 to 1500cry (for me) depending on a few things. Therefore, the 100 kit is still profitable and you can still upgrade your garage. If you don't know what you're doing then you might make some losses from 100 kits. But you pay your crystals and you take your chances, if you lose out its your own fault. However, like I said, buying it allows you to partake in supply-enabled battles. If you love that game mode then its still a worthwhile purchase. Any losses can be offset with mission crystal/supplies rewards and rank-up bonuses anyway. The same goes for PRO passes. Yes it costs 5k/month, but if you prefer no-supply/XpBp or Parkour in terms of game-play, then its surely a worthwhile purchase??

 

IMO, the 100 kit has presented a good challenge to anyone that buys it...can you make profit out of it?... for anyone outside of the top ranks, they're facing far less "druggers". So if I they only drug when necessary and avoid starting drug wars, then its possible IMO.

Again: I like this level of discussion. Leaving aside, as you did, the Gismo/Legend ranks where you confirmed 2000mc input i.e. Daily Missions offering much more, there is one thing I would like to point out on your calculations. 504 crystals is the break even. 17500 the cost. 17500/504 = almost 35 battles (of 12 minutes) to break even. 35 battles where you need to arrive ALWAYS first or second in the winning team. Lose a couple of battles and there is no space to recover the average. For sure there is no player always winning and for sure there are many more who are either losing or arriving third and after.

 

Concerning the "outside top ranks there are less druggers", I do not agree there too. Plenty of druggers (higher than your 1.2/minute) at all levels. Buyers are all over.

 

That guy has been banned for sabotaging my battle and since then he hates me for that. He also hates my friends who publicly support reporting sabotage (and report saboteurs as well) but especially that tomato because he has amazing sneaky skills :lol:

 

Because this game is full of bad losers who end up sabotaging your battles over and over again after you dared to beat them fairly once.

 

Yes he did and I do it too. However, he insisted on calling supplies "supplies" and not "drugs" :rolleyes:

 

 

Your eager will to mention K/D proves everyone once more that you focus more about your personal stats and achievements than you care about your team's results.

 

These biggest 200 websites which are free of charge rely on advertising or different ways than current Tanki's economic model. At the moment you can criticize Tanki's decisions but in any case you're allowed to target a buyer and harass him because he actually allows you to play for free.

 

PS: I noticed you didn't make any effort to justify your argument (once again)

 

Tanki doesn't wanna solve the major issue of sabotage so how do you expect them to care about brats with dirty mouthes?

It is hard to keep up with the links you put up. I understand the effort to prove your statements, but... your first link is about January and about you, when the chat was taped in November and it concerned DejectedTomato. It takes some fantasy to connect the dots...

 

Me caring about K/D... beside being wrong (when gold drops I will go for flag, when a teammate has the flag I will stop enemies with my own tank, and so on... things that druggers never do btw), Twins/Hunter are a good combination for Team efforts, not for personal stats. Get a Shaft with heavy hull and snipe, if you want that. An experience user would have noticed it... I just cannot understand how can I arrive first when I play between druggers.

 

Advertising/Traffic. Plenty of 3d action games out there. I am subject of harassment in every single battle by noob druggers... they pay to harass me LOL

 

"I noticed you didn't make any effort to justify your argument (once again)"... Is this a sentence you write everyone and every time? A pair of glasses might help...

 

I do not see "a major issue of sabotage" and I do not understand the reference to the "brats with dirty mouths"...

[illi2104 55]

1. I am not insulting you. I have never insulted you.  Please keep that in mind.

2.Why would I waste my time counting words used in chat? I am aware that the word "drugger" is used many times. I will not deny the facts.  It is your conclusion you take from it that is so invalid.

 

 

P.S. This is not an insult. Do not be such a whiner to pretend it is. It is merely a question I want you to consider.  

Where exactly did I say you have insulted me or that you deny the fact that the word 'drugger' exists a lot in Tanki chats? Your quote of my message was empty. Have you made an incorrect conclusion? In my previous post the first paragraph was mainly addressed to you, I_already_won, while the rest of the paragraphs were general and addressed to everybody including the Tanki staff.

 

I want you to ask your daughter:  Do you get satisfaction from making other non-drugging players frustrated and unhappy? I want you to ask yourself that as well.

Of course you have the right to want that, but I am not going to ask her such an abusive question. That question includes an assumption that she wants to make other players frustrated and unhappy, which she certainly does not. I don't believe that the purpose of any player who uses supplies is to annoy other players or make them frustrated and unhappy. Do you really think so? To me that sounds quite paranoid and I would suggest you contact a therapist if you really think so. I'm sure they just want to play the game in their way (which is also the way Tanki is meant to be played as everyone can deduce from all the documentation). Btw, there is also a paradox in your question: as being called 'noob' and 'drugger' makes me and my daughter frustrated and unhappy, how could it even in theory be possible that we could get that kind of sick satisfaction you mean? But yeah, I know that you were not really even interested in the answers to that question, as you already knew the answer and asked only in the purpose of, hmm...

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

I didn't quote your whole post because that would be redundant, so I left it blank to show that I was replying to you. You said clearly you would welcome any ideas to stop me insulting you, which I never did, and I found that a bit harsh. I don't think your daughter enjoys making other players frustrated, that was why I asked the question. But then why does she drug against non-druggists? It is the mentality of caring more about your personal success than others enjoyment.

 

We have two premises:

 

1. The use of supplies causes frustration and unhappiness to non-druggers, even when they are on your team.

2. The use of supplies is always optional.

 

I leave it to you from there.

Edited November 20, 2016 by r_I_already_won0

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

What stopping you playing on RU?

I'm a big fan of being able to communicate with the team I'm playing with

Well I'm sure if you ask someone nicely, they'll be able to give you all the phrases you usually use in the EN side in Russian like;

• buyer
• drugger
• noob
• no skill

etc

[Gabe2607 499]

And what about "skilled" players who join standard battles without the intention to use supplies? Do they care about noob druggers who play these battles to use their supplies? Do you even know that feeling of being forbidden to use your supplies by "skilled" players???? This iz so selfish -_-

So you are being forbidden? Then you are no longer a noob drugger... Several months and then no longer a noob :P

[Gabe2607 499]

 

77 golds in a week... is that the way you get paid these days? :P

 

I can see you entering the battle... "gold was?"...

[Maf 32,300]

77 golds in a week

In 1 hour*

It was... a thing.

[Gabe2607 499]

In 1 hour*

It was... a thing.

In my country it is called Bribe :lol:

[wolverine848 13,097]

Well I'm sure if you ask someone nicely, they'll be able to give you all the phrases you usually use in the EN side in Russian like;

• buyer
• drugger
• noob
• no skill

etc

This is what I've said?  Link please.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Don't forget to blame noob druggers for making you live in UTC+8

So up to now I should play Pro Battle Pass.

Because there are lots of battles there that I can complete my missions on.

Except none are actually on the EN server - you know - that has the language I speak.

They happen to be on the RU server. R-U-S-S-I-A-N.

 

You've failed. Try again.

 

I get the impression you just like to hear yourself talk. Slow c-l-a-p.

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

Earlier we discussed the levels of insults. Somebody had an opinion that insulting someone's mom is very bad. I agree on that, but at the same time I do not understand why insulting my daughter should be accepted. If Tanki accepts insulting my daughter, shouldn't it automatically give me the right to insult someone's mom?

 

I think somebody blamed me earlier for ignoring a problem that according to the blamer exists in the way the supplies are implemented in Tanki. On the other hand I have been adviced to use the 'ignore' function in the chat when someone insults me. I find that quite illogical. I don't know it it was because of Tanki staff having read this discussion or if it was just a coincidence but yesterday I even noticed an automatic message in Tanki server chat that adviced people to use that 'ignore' function in case they encounter harassment. I hope that kind of hiding the issue is not Tanki's (at least final) solution to this very severe problem. A big part of the hurt that insults cause comes from their publicity. It does not go away if you close your own eyes from it. You still know that all your friends and everybody else see how you are being insulted. The situation gets even worse if you know that Tanki staff is not even trying to do anything about it.

 

Neither should be acceptable.

 

As for ignore - it really is your best immediate solution. You can report any profanity but that may take time. So use the ignore.

[illi2104 55]

 

I_already_won, I would be very happy to welcome any constructive ideas to make those insults stop from you, too, but so far we have not received any. Instead you have only understated abuse.

 

You said clearly you would welcome any ideas to stop me insulting you, which I never did, and I found that a bit harsh.

Oh God, really? If you read very carefully, I said I would welcome any constructive ideas from you (to stop the insults players who use supplies constantly receive from players who deny to use supplies), not that I would welcome you stopping insulting me. That becomes clear at the latest from the latter part of the sentence: but so far we have not received any (ideas from you). Also the next sentence refers to the fact that we have not received any ideas for that from you: Instead you have only understated abuse. If you had insulted me and I wanted you to stop it, why would I ask ideas for that? Wouldn't I then rather just ask you to stop it?

 

So I_already_win, please learn to read first and stop blaming me for something I have not done, ok?

Edited November 21, 2016 by illi2104