A moral discussion about kill-stealing in a CTF battle

[DiSoRderLY 141]

Although I don't mind kill-stealing (since I do it too), I find there are circumstances in which it is a no go...

 

In a CTF battle for example! When 2 tanks head for the flag and the tank upfront gets in a one on one fight with defense, some tankers (instead of backing you up straight away) hold their shot to make sure they get the kill.

 

Nothing wrong with that you might think, however I feel both tanks need maximum health to get the best chance in capturing the flag. By holding their shot they unnecessary  waste the health of a teammate and therefore lessening the chance for success.

 

It might be a grey area, but I consider these players MULTS.

 

So, when I say MULT you say.......?!

[Eragon 13,876]

so wat is your point?

[DiSoRderLY 141]

so wat is your point?

I thought I made my point very clear. What part of it don't you understand?

[mchen 162]

I wouldn't necessarily say they're mults, they're selfish and greedy but otherwise it's allowed. I do that sometimes but instead i hold back my shots so I let the enemy take our flag and then I kill them so I get more points. 

You definitely shouldn't do it in a team game but when I'm playing a game against other players that I don't know, I put aside  my morality and sometimes play 'dirty' by pushing enemies and 'kill-stealing' like above.

However, I do agree this is annoying but just do it back to them instead :)

[DiSoRderLY 141]

I wouldn't necessarily say they're mults, they're selfish and greedy but otherwise it's allowed. I do that sometimes but instead i hold back my shots so I let the enemy take our flag and then I kill them so I get more points. 

You definitely shouldn't do it in a team game but when I'm playing a game against other players that I don't know, I put aside  my morality and sometimes play 'dirty' by pushing enemies and 'kill-stealing' like above.

Good to hear your opinion.

 

The situation I sketched was an attacking one, however it can be applied to defense as well.

 

When you say you delay your shot and let the enemy take the flag first, do you realize as well that this delay can make the difference between winning and losing a battle? Perhaps you could have fired one more shot, which could have been a crucial one. And than it would be YOU responsible for losing the battle!

 

I know I'm dramatizing here, but that's just to get the discussing started. I also don't demand punishment or such, I'm just emphasizing the value of team spirit :)

However, I do agree this is annoying but just do it back to them instead :)

Doing it back isn't an option for me, I aim and I shoot. Dead simple!!!

[Ilia.ArchangeI 6,785]

I agree with you, extremely annoying, and I find it cheap if players play dirty. Though I kill steal as well, I never risk losing a flag, or my teammates life to "steal that kill". Was this just a statement of opinion, or some suggestion?

[DiSoRderLY 141]

Was this just a statement of opinion, or some suggestion?

Just some food for an interesting discussion, that's all ;)

 

Anyhow, good to hear you feel the same way...

[r_DidYouKnowThat0 1,662]

I absolutely hate it when I get kill-stolen. Especially when using a Railgun. I only resort to kill-stealing when all my other kills get stolen. -_-  Other than that yes I do shoot nevertheless if I'm in a situation where the flag is involved.

[GoldRock 6,165]

I kill steal all the time with Rail :ph34r: I've been in situations where fellow snipers just stand there and wait for each other to fire at a far-off enemy, so they can get the kill with their following shot... Which is pretty stupid, because no-one ends up firing at all :lol:

[bdeck 0]

Rail is a turret that lends itself to stealing and donating. Sometimes I get frustrated when I take the first shot and watch someone else get the kill while I'm recharging, but then I remember how I so often get the kill from some poor twins/firebird/freeze/isidia user who's been blasting away until the moment I swoop in.

 

I think it would be nice to have the game stats reflect total damage dealt instead of kills. That way, no one loses out when a kill is a team effort. That might take a considerable redesign of the game engine, though.

Edited July 18, 2013 by bdeck

[r_Firingsniper0 1,215]

Thunder, the most easy kill-stealing weapon. Kill-Stealing is the key to winning. Not sabotage. You don't like being Kill-Stolen?

 

Play TDM's.

[mchen 162]

^ TDM's are the worst team games ever, get a few noobs to join and you're doomed. In CTF's, you could leave with perhaps 1 or 2 noobs as you could have still a strong team in a 10v10 ctf game. However, the opposite team will just keep aiming at the noobs and you'll lose in no time. That's the reason why I never played TDM's....

 

Good to hear your opinion.

 

The situation I sketched was an attacking one, however it can be applied to defense as well.

 

When you say you delay your shot and let the enemy take the flag first, do you realize as well that this delay can make the difference between winning and losing a battle? Perhaps you could have fired one more shot, which could have been a crucial one. And than it would be YOU responsible for losing the battle!

Defense, attack same thing when you stall to kill an enemy tank ;)

 

When I delay my shot, usually the enemy is almost certain to die or have a very light tank such as a hornet so I can almost be certain to kill it in a few shots with my twins. This in my opinion is sometimes worth it to get a few extra points as long as you're certain you'll get the kill and not jeopardize the game :)

Edited July 19, 2013 by mchen

[bdeck 0]

If you deal a lot of damage but do not get the kill, do you get any points?

[Ilia.ArchangeI 6,785]

If you deal a lot of damage but do not get the kill, do you get any points?

Not in CTF or DM, only TDM.

[DiSoRderLY 141]

I've been in situations where fellow snipers just stand there and wait for each other to fire at a far-off enemy, so they can get the kill with their following shot... Which is pretty stupid, because no-one ends up firing at all :lol:

It is indeed very awkward, as most of the time you won't know how much health your opponent has left. Just shoot, kill and move one... much more points to be gained this way.

Thunder, the most easy kill-stealing weapon. Kill-Stealing is the key to winning. Not sabotage. You don't like being Kill-Stolen?

 

Play TDM's.

My friend, please re-read my initial post again, but very carefully this time. Kill-stealing is part of the game, everyone does it, I do it too and it doesn't annoy me AT ALL.

 

I sketched a specific situation, in which I find kill-stealing is a NO GO! That situation is what I wanted to discuss.

 

Defense, attack same thing when you stall to kill an enemy tank ;)

 

When I delay my shot, usually the enemy is almost certain to die or have a very light tank such as a hornet so I can almost be certain to kill it in a few shots with my twins. This in my opinion is sometimes worth it to get a few extra points as long as you're certain you'll get the kill and not jeopardize the game :)

Not entirely true, if applied to the situation I sketched. I also must correct my first reaction in which I say it can also be applied to the situation you described, that's just partially true. Only the part of you not helping out your team to the best of your abilities fits in here, kill-stealing is not involved in this situation. And kill-stealing should be the key word in this discussion.

 

In my situation 2 tanks approach the enemy flag, while 1 of them is under heavy fire by a defending Freeze for example. If you delay your shot in this situation, you waste the precious much needed health of your teammate, that is if he's not being killed. That extra health could have been essential for him to capture the flag, or keep the enemy occupied a little longer while you can bring the flag home safely. It is this situation I despise and therefore I say it's a NO GO!

[bdeck 0]

Not in CTF or DM, only TDM.

Just tried it in TDM -- got points but only after someone else finished off the enemy I hit. That makes me feel a lot better about finishing off enemies or getting the first shot and then having someone else finish the enemy off.

[mchen 162]

Not entirely true, if applied to the situation I sketched. I also must correct my first reaction in which I say it can also be applied to the situation you described, that's just partially true. Only the part of you not helping out your team to the best of your abilities fits in here, kill-stealing is not involved in this situation. And kill-stealing should be the key word in this discussion.

 

In my situation 2 tanks approach the enemy flag, while 1 of them is under heavy fire by a defending Freeze for example. If you delay your shot in this situation, you waste the precious much needed health of your teammate, that is if he's not being killed. That extra health could have been essential for him to capture the flag, or keep the enemy occupied a little longer while you can bring the flag home safely. It is this situation I despise and therefore I say it's a NO GO!

When it's an ally with the enemy flag, I'll usually block the enemy and stop them from reaching the enemy. That's a definite, if it's with isida I'll heal them otherwise, take out the enemy attacking my ally especially freezes. I'll only kill steal when the situation is clear and the outcome is almost certain that I'll come out on top without many drawbacks such as losing the enemy flag or my ally will lose too much health

[HighwindsGDN 30]

Kill stealing is part of the game... get used to it.  I do it in DM's all the time, I'll watch who the rail shoots then shoot him right after lol. 

[mchen 162]

Kill stealing is part of the game... get used to it.  I do it in DM's all the time, I'll watch who the rail shoots then shoot him right after lol. 

This is a discussion about morality not how common kill-stealing, though I do agree that kill stealing has been in the game for as long as I can remember, it was one of the techniques that I picked up when I was still a noob with my m1 smoky back when I was a master corporal

[red9401 9]

of course if it is a shaft holding their shots make them more effective so what then although that often doesn't happen but anyway what then but at any other time I would agree with you

[r_DidYouKnowThat0 1,662]

When the battle is laid back, the competition and hatred isn't directed to the enemy. It's to a person's own Teammate I guess since they want the kills. But in a competitive battle where the tide may turn any second, well who cares. Just shoot. :lol:

 

Well as I stated above, I think Kill-stealing is alright when the battle is all laid back for you and you have a 100% chance winning. But when the battle is really close, well you should focus on eliminating the enemy at all costs and capture/save/defend the flag.

[r_robbie1230 19]

I find it really annoying when im an isida with hunter , dont have much heath and i try to attack someone so get some health back. Then there are some ******ed railguns that kill him :angry:  While they can see i have low health

[red9401 9]

I find it really annoying when im an isida with hunter , dont have much heath and i try to attack someone so get some health back. Then there are some ******ed railguns that kill him :angry:  While they can see i have low health

me to, who wouldn't find it annoying

[DiSoRderLY 141]

I'll only kill steal when the situation is clear and the outcome is almost certain that I'll come out on top without many drawbacks such as losing the enemy flag or my ally will lose too much health

But when the battle is really close, well you should focus on eliminating the enemy at all costs and capture/save/defend the flag.

Now, that's the spirit ;)

Kill stealing is part of the game... get used to it.  I do it in DM's all the time, I'll watch who the rail shoots then shoot him right after lol. 

Oh no you didn't! Seriously, did you just come bashing in without reading a single word that's being said, apart from the word kill-stealing?  DM, who's talking about DM or kill stealing in general. If you want to act smart, be smart and read for a change before replying. It's not a job you know, you don't have to reply, only if you have some interest in what's being said you should do so.

I find it really annoying when im an isida with hunter , dont have much heath and i try to attack someone so get some health back. Then there are some ******ed railguns that kill him :angry:  While they can see i have low health

Yes you are correct, kill-stealing would be highly inappropriate here. Good argument, well done, keep up the good work!

[Amagi 1,728]

In my alt account, I always kill-steal with shaft, and I get a D/L of 20 or something.