How can the players see that any given Smoky is playing fair?

[65536g 20]

Hello,

 

in the light of the recent recognition in the news that the current anti-cheat mechanisms still require further improvement I have one question. How can the players remain sure that during the battle critical hits of any given Smoky are both random and within the limits of the weapon specification? I mean apart from Smoky every other weapon inflicts damage within the much narrower margins, hence a lot easier to notice any suspicious tampering with the code. Smoky at any moment may deal any arbitrary number of critical hits, which may equally be a perfectly fair behaviour, or an outright cheat. Obviously the current need for the anti-cheat system improvement is a clear evidence that just the word of the developers cannot always be trusted 100%. They also are human beings, their knowledge is not absolute and they can make mistakes just like anyone else. I'm looking for proof with facts, not hot air marketing promises.

 

1. How the other players are supposed to see now that any given Smoky is playing fair (e. g. critical shots are 1 in 12, not 1 in 5? or maybe 50% of the shots were clean misses, but critical shots always were on target suggesting that they were not dealt randomly after all)?

 

2. How the other players will be able to see that any given Smoky is playing fair after the new anti-cheat mechanism is in place?

 

 

TIA

:tank:

[Aerakin 37]

This is a difficult topic. It's hard to see exactly what the chance is of a critical hit occurring because it's a supposedly random process and includes many hit and misses.

 

You're definitely right when you say it's hard to see whether or not someone isn't tampering with the Smoky, if they could. Were they just really lucky and scored multiple critical hits? What are the odds of getting 5 critical hits, one after another, if the odds of getting 1 are 5 percent? Now, there's a line between sheer dumb luck, and blatant fraud. If EVERY shot a Smoky deals in a long battle is critical, then you have a reason to cry foul. But otherwise it's difficult to tell, because of the luck factor. Who's to say the guy getting 10 critical hits is just extremely, unbelievably, the-planets-have-aligned-for-this-moment, lucky?

 

 

It's a very clever cheat, if it exists, to tamper with the critical hit chance. Hardly anyone will notice as long as you keep it subtle (missing a few shots now and then). Very evil. And nearly undetectable.

 

Only the words of the developers can shed any light on the matter. Can we believe them though? Do the numbers tell the whole truth? These are the kind of things that the Press should be covering, not "What GoldRock had for lunch today."

Edited August 11, 2013 by Aerakin

[canadarules 1,938]

basically 1 in every 20 shots will be a critical look at critical hit percentages range from 5-8% i believe 5/100= 1/20 so every two people will get a critical hit and maybe for a drugger two on them

[r_DD6670 13]

basically 1 in every 20 shots will be a critical look at critical hit percentages range from 5-8% i believe 5/100= 1/20 so every two people will get a critical hit and maybe for a drugger two on them

no

 

that calculation doesn't work for all of them

Edited August 11, 2013 by r_DD6670

[r_The-Player20 313]

I've seen people get more than 5 criticals in a row.

[TheLonelyEpic 212]

As far as I know, there has not been a critical hack in the game. However, we all need confirmation from the devs, because many of us see a lot more crits than 5%-8%.

[legenddestroyer 824]

There is not a critical hack -_-

[h2064 5]

No just no

[Ilia.ArchangeI 6,785]

You guys are just unlucky. I almost never get critted.

 

In order for the Devs to figure out if a cheat is in use, I bet they have to be present at the battle and view the statistics of that precise players. That's difficult to accomplish.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Ilia.ArchangeI

[65536g 20]

Yes, once it was the developers who started this confusion in the first place, of course it is of particular interest what they've got to say on the subject. A couple years ago they still could pretend that the very concept of cheating their code was something which never occurred to them. But a year ago this fight was in its earnest and the cheats were reported fixed right and proper once and for all months before the rebalance. Since then this security through obscurity has been proven wrong once again ostensibly. In fact, I have a distinct impression that right now we all are in the middle of a yet another "noble" attempt to reinvent the wheel  :blink:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_through_obscurity

 

Security through obscurity has never achieved engineering acceptance as an approach to securing a system, as it contradicts the principle of "keeping it simple". The United States National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) specifically recommends against security through obscurity in more than one document. Quoting from one, "System security should not depend on the secrecy of the implementation or its components."

 

It is analogous to a homeowner leaving the rear door open, because it cannot be seen by a would-be burglar.

 

Isn't there any way to learn the proper software design better than by one's own mistakes I wonder?  :blush:

[Aerakin 37]

There is not a critical hack -_-

Oh and I suppose the Isida range hack never existed?

[Remaine 4,687]

Oh and I suppose the Isida range hack never existed?

Wasn't that range due to lag? Normally, when that happens, the tanks are also spinning around in a cycle.

[Fiddleronthetank 17]

Clever stuff, better not spread it too far so people don't get any ideas, or maybe that's called 'security through obscurity'! :-D

[AceSpadez 0]

Hello,

 

in the light of the recent recognition in the news that the current anti-cheat mechanisms still require further improvement I have one question. How can the players remain sure that during the battle critical hits of any given Smoky are both random and within the limits of the weapon specification? I mean apart from Smoky every other weapon inflicts damage within the much narrower margins, hence a lot easier to notice any suspicious tampering with the code. Smoky at any moment may deal any arbitrary number of critical hits, which may equally be a perfectly fair behaviour, or an outright cheat. Obviously the current need for the anti-cheat system improvement is a clear evidence that just the word of the developers cannot always be trusted 100%. They also are human beings, their knowledge is not absolute and they can make mistakes just like anyone else. I'm looking for proof with facts, not hot air marketing promises.

 

1. How the other players are supposed to see now that any given Smoky is playing fair (e. g. critical shots are 1 in 12, not 1 in 5? or maybe 50% of the shots were clean misses, but critical shots always were on target suggesting that they were not dealt randomly after all)?

 

2. How the other players will be able to see that any given Smoky is playing fair after the new anti-cheat mechanism is in place?

 

 

TIA

:tank:

Here's an idea:

 

Give the smokey a different sound effect and/or shot appearance (ex. a glowing bullet trail) whenever it fires a critical shot.

[Aerakin 37]

Here's an idea:

 

Give the smokey a different sound effect and/or shot appearance (ex. a glowing bullet trail) whenever it fires a critical shot.

That's a good idea, so that way we will know if every shot they take is critical. But again, would that person really be hacking, or would they just be incredibly, the-stars-aligned lucky? It's all a matter of who we give the benefit of the doubt, the player or what we think really happened.

[Ilia.ArchangeI 6,785]

That's a good idea, so that way we will know if every shot they take is critical. But again, would that person really be hacking, or would they just be incredibly, the-stars-aligned lucky? It's all a matter of who we give the benefit of the doubt, the player or what we think really happened.

The real problem is if he's cheating, what can you do about it? Even if his entire team knows about it, they won't kick him - he's too big of an advantage.

 

When fly hackers were around - everyone complains. When he's on the opposite team. When he's on your team no one squeaks a word, at least until the game is over.

 

Of course you can make a video, but you might as well make videos as it is. After 10 critical shots, I doubt any admin will tell you it's luck.

[ANARCHY_99 7]

Hello,

 

in the light of the recent recognition in the news that the current anti-cheat mechanisms still require further improvement I have one question. How can the players remain sure that during the battle critical hits of any given Smoky are both random and within the limits of the weapon specification? I mean apart from Smoky every other weapon inflicts damage within the much narrower margins, hence a lot easier to notice any suspicious tampering with the code. Smoky at any moment may deal any arbitrary number of critical hits, which may equally be a perfectly fair behaviour, or an outright cheat. Obviously the current need for the anti-cheat system improvement is a clear evidence that just the word of the developers cannot always be trusted 100%. They also are human beings, their knowledge is not absolute and they can make mistakes just like anyone else. I'm looking for proof with facts, not hot air marketing promises.

 

1. How the other players are supposed to see now that any given Smoky is playing fair (e. g. critical shots are 1 in 12, not 1 in 5? or maybe 50% of the shots were clean misses, but critical shots always were on target suggesting that they were not dealt randomly after all)?

 

2. How the other players will be able to see that any given Smoky is playing fair after the new anti-cheat mechanism is in place?

 

 

TIA

:tank:

 

you cant control the critical hits you noob , you should know better than to make pointless topics   ,  flying hacks , speed hacks yes but this topic made me laugh next topic would be the thunder splash damage cheat 

[Ilia.ArchangeI 6,785]

you cant control the critical hits you noob , you should know better than to make pointless topics   ,  flying hacks , speed hacks yes but this topic made me laugh next topic would be the thunder splash damage cheat 

You have a point there. If the splash damage was increased, you would have no idea. Another thing is Isida's self-heal speed.

[r_The_R0 1]

Firebird fuel comsumption hack, Twins damage hack, Railgun reload hack, Smoky critical hack, Thunder splash hack, Freeze fuel comsumption hack, Shaft charge hack, Rico is useless hack, Isida self heal hack,

 

Now what.

[Ilia.ArchangeI 6,785]

Firebird fuel comsumption hack, Twins damage hack, Railgun reload hack, Smoky critical hack, Thunder splash hack, Freeze fuel comsumption hack, Shaft charge hack, Rico is useless hack, Isida self heal hack,

 

Now what.

Rico reload hack.

 

Now nothing. Can't do anything about these hacks but trust the Devs

[Aerakin 37]

Can't do anything about these hacks but trust the Devs

And in light of recent updates that's getting harder and harder to do every day. We're pretty much stuck, and the only thing we CAN do is keep making reports of hackers.

[ANARCHY_99 7]

Rico reload hack.

 

Now nothing. Can't do anything about these hacks but trust the Devs

 

Trust no one ! Who do you want to trust the ones who nerf our guns and say nothing about it like thieves ...oh but there was a bug in the matrix code and Neo had to be sent to kill the Smith bug in all our hard earned cash payed guns

 

Now those must be held acountable hell if i pay one cent anymore in this game we are robbed from all directions hacks , nerfing , but oh please insert credit card credentials here , we are not all dumb and blind  

[Chronux 12]

Hello,

 

in the light of the recent recognition in the news that the current anti-cheat mechanisms still require further improvement I have one question. How can the players remain sure that during the battle critical hits of any given Smoky are both random and within the limits of the weapon specification? I mean apart from Smoky every other weapon inflicts damage within the much narrower margins, hence a lot easier to notice any suspicious tampering with the code. Smoky at any moment may deal any arbitrary number of critical hits, which may equally be a perfectly fair behaviour, or an outright cheat. Obviously the current need for the anti-cheat system improvement is a clear evidence that just the word of the developers cannot always be trusted 100%. They also are human beings, their knowledge is not absolute and they can make mistakes just like anyone else. I'm looking for proof with facts, not hot air marketing promises.

 

1. How the other players are supposed to see now that any given Smoky is playing fair (e. g. critical shots are 1 in 12, not 1 in 5? or maybe 50% of the shots were clean misses, but critical shots always were on target suggesting that they were not dealt randomly after all)?

 

2. How the other players will be able to see that any given Smoky is playing fair after the new anti-cheat mechanism is in place?

 

 

TIA

:tank:

You can know that Crytical hits are not hacked, because:

 

When I used Smoky M1 in DM match the crytical hit came out 5/7 shots. That made me thing WTF really. The crytical hit is actually wrongly shown in the possibility. It's random and you never know when it can come out. If it was fair, then M1 smoky's crytical hit would come out every 20th shot (because 5% is 20th of 100%, makes sense?). Devs just thought to Nerf the Type 2 weapons and OP Type 1 weapons for some reason. And I hate it!

[65536g 20]

As far as I know, there has not been a critical hack in the game. However, we all need confirmation from the devs, because many of us see a lot more crits than 5%-8%.

 

What can the devs confirm really? In my experience until now the devs were always the last men to know: this is when under the weight of irrefutable evidence they could no longer deny the vulnerability in their code and patched the code. So that the hackers find and start selling some other exploit... until the players collect and provide to the devs sufficient evidence again... and one more time after that...

[65536g 20]

You can know that Crytical hits are not hacked, because:

 

<...>

The crytical hit is actually wrongly shown in the possibility. It's random and you never know when it can come out. If it was fair, then M1 smoky's crytical hit would come out every 20th shot (because 5% is 20th of 100%, makes sense?)

You are correct in your calculations as long as we keep believing that the player with Smoky is playing fair, not using any third-party cheat. But what if I doubt that this player is fair? E. g. a Freeze capable of killing opponents at the other end of the battlefield is obviously a cheater. Same would hold true for a Shaft, which does not take any time to recharge before it deals another maximum damage shot. But if a player with Smoky is using a third-party cheat e. g. making its every second shot critical, then how can the other players tell that this is a cheater? If there is no way for the players to keep track that the gameplay is fair, then it is no more than a playground for the hackers and with little chance for the devs to learn and close these loopholes too.