Parkour Discussion / Q&A

[Marekos1111 3,091]

1 hour ago, SwiftSmoky said:

Years ago, before FnF was official, a community manager (Cedric or Nives) asked me what it means to become official. I said something like this:

It's like a golden medal for a team that made a big and special contribution to the parkour community.

Nowadays the official status means something like "uploads frequently, has 8+ tricks per video, and meets a few other criteria". I don't judge the official clubs, I point out that the management gradually changed the meaning of the official status by shifting the focus to technicalities and away from what the community values most, which upsets many people.

There was a time when people flooded livestream chats like it's a protest, saying FnF should be made official. It was definitely not because of the upload rate. Does that make FnF (which the community supported like no other club in history, and became official) not good enough, or are the current criteria misleading?

By the way: if you reward clubs for compromising content quality, something is wrong. But that's exactly what strict upload rates make: rushed videos, which are less satisfying to make and to watch. And that's not the only problematic rule, but I've said enough.

I agree with you swifty, glad to see you are still following the parkour scene 

[Murder 14]

3 hours ago, SwiftSmoky said:

Years ago, before FnF was official, a community manager (Cedric or Nives) asked me what it means to become official. I said something like this:

It's like a golden medal for a team that made a big and special contribution to the parkour community.

Nowadays the official status means something like "uploads frequently, has 8+ tricks per video, and meets a few other criteria". I don't judge the official clubs, I point out that the management gradually changed the meaning of the official status by shifting the focus to technicalities and away from what the community values most, which upsets many people.

There was a time when people flooded livestream chats like it's a protest, saying FnF should be made official. It was definitely not because of the upload rate. Does that make FnF (which the community supported like no other club in history, and became official) not good enough, or are the current criteria misleading?

By the way: if you reward clubs for compromising content quality, something is wrong. But that's exactly what strict upload rates make: rushed videos, which are less satisfying to make and to watch. And that's not the only problematic rule, but I've said enough.

https://youtu.be/1_h-dF2dPRk (0:00-50:59) <-- If our Community Manager/Parkour Club Managers were involved with everyone and everything like Nives was in this livestream (specifically to give everyone a motive/insight on parkour), and had a better connection with the Parkour community, I think we would have a lot less issues that we do now. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Kissland

[Incorp 2,084]

On 11/17/2021 at 9:42 PM, SwiftSmoky said:

By the way: if you reward clubs for compromising content quality, something is wrong. But that's exactly what strict upload rates make: rushed videos, which are less satisfying to make and to watch.

This part I have to agree, some parkour videos are so awful with the edit; it is so frustrating, so hard to watch. I just wish to watch some minorly edited videos. The parkour much better then.

[i200000 717]

On 11/29/2021 at 3:58 PM, Incorp said:

This part I have to agree, some parkour videos are so awful with the edit; it is so frustrating, so hard to watch. I just wish to watch some minorly edited videos. The parkour much better then.

now that's something I 100% agree with

[Lennard 3,270]

Seems like the parkour physics are fixed! You can try it out on the test server. Hopefully this will bring parkour back to life 

[Incorp 2,084]

1 hour ago, I.Legend.I said:

Seems like the parkour physics are fixed! You can try it out on the test server. Hopefully this will bring parkour back to life 

It will either make my parkourisy better, or make them worse cuz I never knew old physics well. Intrigued, I guess. 

[Adab 2,896]

2 minutes ago, Incorp said:

It will either make my parkourisy better, or make them worse cuz I never knew old physics well. Intrigued, I guess. 

You can always learn.

[Spy 14,687]

22 hours ago, I.Legend.I said:

Seems like the parkour physics are fixed! You can try it out on the test server. Hopefully this will bring parkour back to life 

Just seen that, awesome news!

[I_Lauv_You 221]

I will say this here and now, **IF** these are the new physics it reminds me of like the 2013 physics or even MyTanks type physics lmao. Saying that it will change parkour completely seeing many new elements to use. Though I highly doubt these are new physics to just think you'd see this in MM, nah. But it's nice for enjoying. Swift and I were messing around the first day and found many variables to use. But just for entertainment we will show you one of the many we have ;D
What happens here is there is a element in TO where you can "sink" into other tanks but have you ever tried to do it reversed? Sink up tanks? :)

 

[Spektrix 440]

3 hours ago, I_Lauv_You said:

I will say this here and now, **IF** these are the new physics it reminds me of like the 2013 physics or even MyTanks type physics lmao. Saying that it will change parkour completely seeing many new elements to use. Though I highly doubt these are new physics to just think you'd see this in MM, nah. But it's nice for enjoying. Swift and I were messing around the first day and found many variables to use. But just for entertainment we will show you one of the many we have ;D
What happens here is there is a element in TO where you can "sink" into other tanks but have you ever tried to do it reversed? Sink up tanks? :)

 

idk why I feel like this is illegal

[Spy 14,687]

11 hours ago, I_Lauv_You said:

 

 

I have so many questions .-.

[Spy 14,687]

In tomorrow's episode they will be talking about fixing the parkour physics. 

Spoiler

 

 

[Adab 2,896]

10 hours ago, Spy said:

In tomorrow's episode they will be talking about fixing the parkour physics. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I just can't believe it's happening, the day we have all been waiting for.

[Shadow 56]

On 11/17/2021 at 2:42 PM, SwiftSmoky said:

Years ago, before FnF was official, a community manager (Cedric or Nives) asked me what it means to become official. I said something like this:

It's like a golden medal for a team that made a big and special contribution to the parkour community.

Nowadays the official status means something like "uploads frequently, has 8+ tricks per video, and meets a few other criteria". I don't judge the official clubs, I point out that the management gradually changed the meaning of the official status by shifting the focus to technicalities and away from what the community values most, which upsets many people.

There was a time when people flooded livestream chats like it's a protest, saying FnF should be made official. It was definitely not because of the upload rate. Does that make FnF (which the community supported like no other club in history, and became official) not good enough, or are the current criteria misleading?

By the way: if you reward clubs for compromising content quality, something is wrong. But that's exactly what strict upload rates make: rushed videos, which are less satisfying to make and to watch. And that's not the only problematic rule, but I've said enough.

I agree with most of your points, but your main point is also overtaken by the fact, what did it mean to be official when the first official club, if anyone knows, ToT was the first club that got Glide. You want to see what they were doing? Both me and you are very old players, and I think even though our community has taken "parkour" to a new era, no one can ever say any club deserved the paint more than ToT. I still to this day, didn't see 1 club, not only show players how to parkour, but how they edit their videos, guides, montages, in AE, Adobe Premier Pro, etc. They were the first club to make guides, and montages. People complain about change, only when it doesn't go their way, or how they would like. I know it because I'm the same but you can take a step back. It's not 2013 or 2017, but 2022. But the point of the parkour paint was to show not only they were skilled in parkour, but mainly what they could bring to the players. (And it's one thing i know not a lot can relate to) And with montages it's not easy, I think FnF was the one of the few clubs which could demonstrate this through montages, so it is only natural nowadays it might not be promising since expectation was high, and people started focusing on the editing rather than the objective.

So much has changed, I can say for a fact in times of over 5 years agos, we were very lucky or "unlucky" since we had to spend hours on tricks. Nowadays there's alterations or augments for both turrets and hulls, different hulls, different formats, different physics, which ofcourse removes the meta of parkour for me. But, maybe it's a different feeling for newer players, I know I used to be excited to parkour but it's not the same when I enter HTML5. 

[Lennard 3,270]

On 2/18/2022 at 6:20 PM, Shadow said:

People complain about change, only when it doesn't go their way, or how they would like. I know it because I'm the same but you can take a step back. It's not 2013 or 2017, but 2022. But the point of the parkour paint was to show not only they were skilled in parkour, but mainly what they could bring to the players.

I don't like your first sentence to be honest and I can't agree with that. I think it's pretty obvious why players are angry. Yes, parkour has evolved over the years, and so has management, but as Swift said, "It's like a gold medal for a team that has made a great and special contribution to the parkour community."

In my opinion, getting a "gold medal" for doing great things for the community shouldn't be earned by rules like: a certain number of tricks per video and a video every six weeks. This comes at the expense of the quality of the videos, as clubs have to rush to finish it in time. I can already see the downsides of it: short parkour montages and less creative, low-quality tricks.

Also, in my opinion, old official clubs that earned a "gold medal" 3 years ago, before it was possible to go official just by following the rules, really deserved it because of the quality they produced before there were such rules.

Please don't see this as an attack on anyone. I share my opinion. As I said a few months ago, "I don't think some decisions have been well thought out".

[Adab 2,896]

That rule (of Parkour Club Rules) was to post 1 video every 4 weeks, and then it was increased to 1 video every 6 weeks. Anyhow, one reason why that rule about posting a video every 6 weeks came is that there was already a rule only for official parkour clubs that said "Inactivity - if a club is inactive for more than six weeks the club will lose the paint." and didn't describe what is considered as "inactivity". We understood it causes loss of quality amongst other issues so this rule about posting a video every 6 weeks was already planned to be removed and replaced by a better and improved rule and is now awaiting approval before it's published. 

And the rule (for official parkour clubs) about posting a video that has at least 8 tricks was already removed on 15 November 2021. However (even though it's not stated in the Parkour Club Rules; it should get stated there soon), we still use it for giving parkour club support supplies, any video that doesn't contain 8 tricks or is not 2 minutes long doesn't get the 1500 supplies (because I don't think we should be giving 1500 supplies to a video that doesn't even contain 8 tricks or isn't even 2 minutes long). It is to be noted that parkour clubs are not required to only post a video that has 8 tricks or is at least minutes long (though I understand they would prefer to stick to this range), these are only minimum requirements. Short parkour montages with less creative, low-quality tricks were already happening even before these rules (posting a video every 6 weeks and a video should contain at least 8 tricks or should be at least 2 minutes long) came, and it is also due to other factors such as the previous HTML5 physics and loss of motivation.

"It's like a gold medal for a team that has made a great and special contribution to the parkour community." sounds great but there are issues. It should be noted that if there were almost no problems with that system, we probably wouldn't have tried to get a better system and changed how an official parkour club is chosen. There were problems with that system in the past. A medal is something you award and do NOT take back, unless the receiver of the medal decides to give it back or is a violator (of rules, for example). If we go by that, official parkour clubs should be allowed to keep their official status and paint as long as they wish, even if it is 10 years or more, and even after they are closed, until they wish to return or give the official status up. But did this ever happen? No. Why not? Because it was not the way to go. We eventually could end up having multiple parkour clubs that deserve official status as a "gold medal" and the result will be a loss of value for both the official status and official parkour club paint. So to avoid that, you would limit how many official parkour clubs are there, for example 3 official parkour clubs, and not give it to other parkour clubs that also happen to deserve the official status later, until the existing 3 official parkour clubs return or give up their official status. And to avoid that, you would say it is a "gold medal" but we take it back once the official parkour club closes and they have to earn it back if they re-open. This, to be honest, simply doesn't make sense to me and doesn't even appear to be ethical and I do not think it was well thought of.

And each official parkour club should better get their own paint, yep, but the idea of giving a "different colour" version of Phoenix/Aero isn't the best solution. Reason? Well, there are reasons, in the plural. 1) Tanki never does that. 2) Suppose there is a club X with Phoenix and you give a red coloured Phoenix to a new official parkour club A, and then later purple coloured Phoenix to a new official parkour club B. And then the club X loses Phoenix, and you give the original Phoenix to a new official parkour club C. Do you think this would be fair to the other clubs A and B? Won't they feel they want the original Phoenix and their coloured version doesn't matter much and it's just a modification after all? Well, these are just some reasons. People tend to like solutions for the present and forget the consequences of the future.

 

So what could be done? Well, I have got some ideas (these are not confirmed and may not get implemented).

The goals (to mention some, in brief): preserve the value (while creating healthy competition and not unfairly demotivating any parkour club) of 1) official status 2) official parkour club paints (Phoenix and Aero, for example).

The solutions (ideas): 

• Only the best parkour club gets the official status. This club should also meet "Requirements for Official Status".
• Implement a limit on how many official parkour clubs there are in the EN locale. The limit should be strict. The limit should be 1. The limit should be 1 because "best" means "of the most excellent or desirable type or quality" or "top", and that means there can only be 1 "best" parkour club.
• Only give the "Phoenix" paint for official parkour clubs of the EN locale.
• A unique paint should be made and given for the members of all eligible clubs receiving the Parkour Club Support.
• Parkour Club Support should have 3 levels. 

Level 3: Elite - x1500 of each parkour club support supply per valid video, x2 parkour club spectator accounts, x1 unique paint for each member. 

Level 2: Standard - x1000 of each parkour club support supply per valid video, x2 parkour club spectator accounts. 

Level 1: Starter - x500 of each parkour club support supply per valid video, x1 parkour club spectator account.

I'm still giving more thought to these ideas/solutions and this whole matter in general.

[Shadow 56]

18 hours ago, Lennard said:

"I don't think some decisions have been well thought out".

Well it is only natural, since there are new players, new moderators, new clubs. It's a new generation.  But you are right, I think 1 problem, the paint should not be considered as a gold medal. It is not Masters of Parkour, it is an official status. The status used to be be given to clubs who have spent ages (years) making content for the community, but then, I still feel it's hard to estimate that worth due to all these new updates. You can put lightweight alteration and all these other alterations, and do the trick very quickly. Whilst a few years ago, it would probably take hours with 1000s of fails to do that trick. What made the old clubs special, they showcased new tricks which were harder and harder to do. You can even remember it took sometimes 10-15 minutes to set up certain tricks just for a failure. Making ramps, flipping tanks, people were invested in making parkour videos ranging from M0 videos to M2. It's hard to value like before.

 

1 hour ago, Adab said:

 

• Only the best parkour club gets the official status. This club should also meet "Requirements for Official Status".
• Implement a limit on how many official parkour clubs there are in the EN locale. The limit should be strict. The limit should be 1. The limit should be 1 because "best" means "of the most excellent or desirable type or quality" or "top", and that means there can only be 1 "best" parkour club.
• Only give the "Phoenix" paint for official parkour clubs of the EN locale.
• A unique paint should be made and given for the members of all eligible clubs receiving the Parkour Club Support.
• Parkour Club Support should have 3 levels. 

Level 3: Elite - x1500 of each parkour club support supply per valid video, x2 parkour club spectator accounts, x1 unique paint for each member. 

Level 2: Standard - x1000 of each parkour club support supply per valid video, x2 parkour club spectator accounts. 

Level 1: Starter - x500 of each parkour club support supply per valid video, x1 parkour club spectator account.

I'm still giving more thought to these ideas/solutions and this whole matter in general.

The problem with this. I don't know how it is now, but the Russians never seemed to agree on rules or change. There was so much idiotism, that you could be in 2 official clubs and claim 2 paints. And this was supported by some of the other communities. And this was a shame thing to see when 2 clubs tried to merge and take 2 paints, obviously this was backtracked, and probably forgotten about.

And even now, how would one say who is the best? It should not be treated as a paint like Masters of Parkour. Any clubs should have an opportunity to become official and receive a paint. It's very hard to decide on how to do this. I would like to suggest, do it like a process for picking veteran. All official clubs should be administrated by the admin. They should submit an application to become official. They should write their history, and show what tournaments and contests they have won as a club, not as individuals. How involved are they with parkour, guides, montages, even set up a criteria to value how good are their montages, tricks, considering factors of alterations, presentation (spec, editing, organisation), mode of gravity, etc.. I know they also used to do karma checks on every player to receive paints and IP checks, this way you always minimised violations from official status owners. This way, it's not a medal but at the discretion of the Manager, and he or she can see fit if it is worth inviting another club to an official status.

With the supplies I agree. Not a lot of supplies are used or were used like before. 1500 was an overkill, even we used to get 1500 DD and crystals as well on top of that.

[Adab 2,896]

33 minutes ago, Shadow said:

The problem with this. I don't know how it is now, but the Russians never seemed to agree on rules or change. There was so much idiotism, that you could be in 2 official clubs and claim 2 paints. And this was supported by some of the other communities. And this was a shame thing to see when 2 clubs tried to merge and take 2 paints, obviously this was backtracked, and probably forgotten about.

And even now, how would one say who is the best? It should not be treated as a paint like Masters of Parkour. Any clubs should have an opportunity to become official and receive a paint. It's very hard to decide on how to do this. I would like to suggest, do it like a process for picking veteran. All official clubs should be administrated by the admin. They should submit an application to become official. They should write their history, and show what tournaments and contests they have won as a club, not as individuals. How involved are they with parkour, guides, montages, even set up a criteria to value how good are their montages, tricks, considering factors of alterations, presentation (spec, editing, organisation), mode of gravity, etc.. I know they also used to do karma checks on every player to receive paints and IP checks, this way you always minimised violations from official status owners. This way, it's not a medal but at the discretion of the Manager, and he or she can see fit if it is worth inviting another club to an official status.

With the supplies I agree. Not a lot of supplies are used or were used like before. 1500 was an overkill, even we used to get 1500 DD and crystals as well on top of that.

You read my mind, it's already part of my idea to do "They should submit an application to become official." and I already posted this to the leaders of official and supported parkour clubs in our Parkour Club Support Discord server. Clubs that want to become official should make sure they meet the "Requirements for Official Status" and request official status by creating a topic in a special section of the forum, this section should be public. Only those who request official status gets it even if a club meets the requirements for official status, and only 1 request will be processed at a time in the first come first serve basis. The parkour clubs manager will judge whether the club meets the requirements by scoring points for each category of the requirements, and then also does the same to score points for each category of the requirements for official status versus the existing official club to determine which one of the two is the best (this step can be skipped if there are no official parkour clubs). Then the parkour clubs manager will make a decision and the community manager approves it. Probably the parkour category of the "Requirements for Official Status" can allow giving, for example, 2 points, and the rest of the categories 1 point. The "Requirements for Official Status" may also be improved and made a bit more difficult.

Also, a club can only request to become official status once every 3 or 6 months. And requests are not processed during the first 3 or 6 months after accepting and giving official status to a parkour club, means other clubs cant challenge this new official parkour club until after 3 or 6 months (not sure if it should be 3 or 6 months at the moment, probably 6 months).

These are just ideas.

[SwiftSmoky 8,445]

19 hours ago, Adab said:

• A unique paint should be made and given for the members of all eligible clubs receiving the Parkour Club Support.

This is how it was originally, until someone decided against it, probably to avoid the work related to adding a new paint. (I'm guessing based on the reason it was hard for me to get a Parkour Survival prize paint into the game: Tanki's management was against it because it takes some work, so I ended up reusing an old holiday paint and renamed it to "Sky".) I'm sure many people (myself included) would love to have this back, it was more personal this way and also a better fit for the club's videos (remember how FnF refused to use Phoenix in their videos).

 

The "golden medal" analogy isn't perfect, mainly because it was never about competition with other clubs. It was more like an award, given to teams for their contribution and excellence. You don't need to lose your award in order for someone else to also win an award. Also, awards don't expire, but of course Tanki's situation requires some form of expiration, so here's my suggestion:

 

A club gets to choose their unique official paint. (Or at least to participate in the paint choice: request certain details like "white with silver lines", and review the textures that are being considered.)

The paint is a unique and permanent award for those who earned it, but not permanent for the club as a whole:

• Members of an official club get the paint.
• After the club loses it's official status, new members will no longer get the paint, but old members who already got the paint will keep it. (The need to remove paints from clubs comes from the fact that new members of a club that got worse over time don't deserve the paint. But if you are one of the old members who earned the paint, you don't un-earn it.)
• When a member leaves the club, the leader decides if he gets to keep the paint or not. (The goal with this is to avoid "paint diggers" from joining a club just for the paint and then leaving without making a contribution worthy of this award. And to let new members have a club paint in videos without worrying about whether or not they will deserve to keep it.)
• When a club closes, the paint stays only with the ex-members of this club. (The closed club may reopen in the future, and no one wants their unique paint to lose value by sharing it with other clubs.)

 

Also, great job @Adab! I'm happy to see you taking this seriously, making an effort to understand the community, and making real progress towards solving the problems.

[Adab 2,896]

30 minutes ago, SwiftSmoky said:

This is how it was originally, until someone decided against it, probably to avoid the work related to adding a new paint. (I'm guessing based on the reason it was hard for me to get a Parkour Survival prize paint into the game: Tanki's management was against it because it takes some work, so I ended up reusing an old holiday paint and renamed it to "Sky".) I'm sure many people (myself included) would love to have this back, it was more personal this way and also a better fit for the club's videos (remember how FnF refused to use Phoenix in their videos).

 

The "golden medal" analogy isn't perfect, mainly because it was never about competition with other clubs. It was more like an award, given to teams for their contribution and excellence. You don't need to lose your award in order for someone else to also win an award. Also, awards don't expire, but of course Tanki's situation requires some form of expiration, so here's my suggestion:

 

A club gets to choose their unique official paint. (Or at least to participate in the paint choice: request certain details like "white with silver lines", and review the textures that are being considered.)

The paint is a unique and permanent award for those who earned it, but not permanent for the club as a whole:

• Members of an official club get the paint.
• After the club loses it's official status, new members will no longer get the paint, but old members who already got the paint will keep it. (The need to remove paints from clubs comes from the fact that new members of a club that got worse over time don't deserve the paint. But if you are one of the old members who earned the paint, you don't un-earn it.)
• When a member leaves the club, the leader decides if he gets to keep the paint or not. (The goal with this is to avoid "paint diggers" from joining a club just for the paint and then leaving without making a contribution worthy of this award. And to let new members have a club paint in videos without worrying about whether or not they will deserve to keep it.)
• When a club closes, the paint stays only with the ex-members of this club. (The closed club may reopen in the future, and no one wants their unique paint to lose value by sharing it with other clubs.)

 

Also, great job @Adab! I'm happy to see you taking this seriously, making an effort to understand the community, and making real progress towards solving the problems.

I already told them more than once that each official parkour club should have their own unique paint but unfortunately, nothing happened, it seems they will not do this. That is why I am trying to find other solutions.

[Adab 2,896]

12 hours ago, max6782 said:

Looking forward to new parkour contests. 

Same.

[Lennard 3,270]

On 5/28/2022 at 11:38 AM, max6782 said:

Looking forward to new parkour contests. 

Same. I wish I knew why there aren't any contests in general.

[Adab 2,896]

On 5/29/2022 at 1:00 PM, Lennard said:

Same. I wish I knew why there aren't any contests in general.

Same (yep, this word again, lol), I don't know about the other contests (parkour contests > other contests) but one of the Contest Admins said here that there will be some parkour contests, so they are probably already working on it or have something planned

[Adab 2,896]

On 6/6/2022 at 4:47 PM, max6782 said:

Sadly this didnt last long.

Yep
However, there is still chance for MoP to take place one day

 

Edit: I'm able to tell this because I talked to Marcus about it

[I_Lauv_You 221]

Forgot to show the better version of this, vikings are better. Recorded it same day and didn't upload
Enjoy!