Parkour Discussion / Q&A

[Adab 2,896]

On 11/11/2023 at 3:21 AM, Devoid said:

As I am sure most of y'all have seen, the recent Patch Update #744 implemented several adjustments that have significantly hurt Lightweight augments. Now, a fully-upgraded Wasp Mk7 with a Lightweight augment is heavier than even a fully-upgraded Mk7 Wasp was prior to the Patch Update #713 that increased the weight of all hulls (which was previously irrelevant because of how Lightweight augments worked, but now is a significant matter due to workings of this new update).

 

I suspect the Developers rolled out this update because of some sort of issue Lightweight augments posed within Matchmaking. Whatever the reason is, if it relates solely to Matchmaking, it shouldn't warrant these changes also being present within Parkour Mode. With this in mind, I replied to the most recent update's topic, suggesting that the Developers should revert the changes for Parkour Mode specifically so that we (parkourists) can continue to use the old form of Lightweight augments where each hull is identically weighted at 1,000 kg, and that the Developers could keep the changes made within this update in Matchmaking, other types of PRO Battles, etc. so it can fix whatever issue the update was meant to fix. You can see my reply here, and if you want, feel free to add another reply with your take on everything.

 

I am curious to figure out what implications within the Parkour Community these changes will bring. I know when HTML5 was first introduced, the physics were a lot different than the Flash physics we were used to since the dawn of parkour, and several parkour clubs needed more time between montages to get around this complication to produce tricks of similar caliber to the ones they created before Flash was discontinued. I am wondering if that might be necessary here as well.

Personally, I think the 12-week timeline we currently have is sufficient and could work without change, and I do not believe it should be extended. My reasoning for this is that while giving clubs more time to mess around with Lightweight augments in their current state could lead to higher quality tricks, I feel it is more likely that clubs will just misuse a deadline extension¹. Also, I believe that history will repeat itself, in that the extension will continue long past the day that the problem that warranted the extension in the first place is fixed². If you are wondering why I think these things, check out the spoiler below for a more in-depth break down of my thought process.

  Reveal hidden contents

1: I infer this to be the case because a few clubs already take until the very end of the deadline to finally upload, and these uploads are nothing more than other clubs' videos. Had such clubs' videos been twice as long, or included twice as many tricks, it would make sense that it took them twice as long to create their video, yet these videos have roughly the same number of tricks, and the trick and video editing quality are very similar to other clubs. This leads me to believe that they just do not properly make use of their time. Giving such clubs even more time would just result in more wasted time, not subjectively better and more exciting montages.

 

2: The deadline to post a video should have long-since been returned to the length of time it was before being increased to 12 weeks, as the HTML5 physics have been fixed, and there is no longer a crisis that demands more time to work around. Yet this deadline length remains untouched by our management. I think this will also be the case if the deadline is increased with the current problems with Lightweight augments we are facing: as how is it really any different of a scenario?

 

Anyways, I just felt it was important to start this dialogue, and get our Parkour Clubs Manager involved in helping us work through this time of issue. Feel free to share any thoughts below - I would appreciate hearing others' opinions (whether they are in agreeance with my views, or otherwise).

You got some good points. The "Lightweight Construction" augments are not under my jurisdiction, but I messaged Marcus about them some days ago requesting to request the developers to either revert the changes that were made to the "Lightweight Construction" augments in patch update #744 or, only for the parkour battle mode of Tanki, make the "Lightweight Construction" augments work the way they used to work before patch update #744. And until I read this post of yours, I wasn't even thinking about extending the "12-week timeline" after I came to know about the negative impact of patch update #744 on parkour. I currently do not have any plan to extend the "12-week timeline" (even if I want to extend it, I will need Marcus's approval to do so) and I don't even want to extend it (because I do not see any good reason to extend it). Please note that "The deadline to post a video" was not increased to 12 weeks (from the length of time it was before it was increased to 12 weeks) because of a crisis that demands more time to work around or because the HTML5 physics was fixed, it was increased because of reasons such as to make it easer for official parkour clubs to produce quality content and maintain the quality of their content, etc. and it was increased during 2022 after the HTML5 physics were fixed, not before the HTML5 physics were fixed, and after all the leaders of the 4 official parkour clubs of that time agreed to increase it in our Parkour Club Support Discord server

If you feel that the 12 weeks is too much, then the reason you feel the 12 weeks is too much is because I intentionally chose "12" weeks to make everyone feel that it's too much so that no one will be like "we didn't have enough time" when we take action against a club for not posting a video within the duration or use it as a reason to justify why their parkour isn't good anymore, for example. But anyway, I think 12 weeks is perfect for all clubs, if we reduce it then people (especially clubs that want to only do outstanding parkour tricks) may start complaining (especially during parkour contests), instead we should make clubs post videos more frequently using other methods, like we already say each video gives supplies (unlike before where you got 300 per week even if you posted more than 1 video during the week). And also in the past, a rule such as a video should be posted within a particular duration wasn't didn't even exist so 12 weeks is almost nothing compared to that, and I think there is still no such rule in any other locale. In short, I don't really see a reason to make the duration tight, instead I think it should be comfortable

[Photophosphorylation 16]

I don't know if you saw it, but in last V-LOG (Tanki Online V-LOG: Episode 495) they announced, that they will bring special parkour hull augment to the game. I think that is pretty good news for all parkourists, we just need to wait for official announcement.

@Adab, do you have any info about the option, how to reach/obtain this augment? Will they add it to official parkour members only or to everyone? Because some people are not in clubs but they still do some OMP or something.

[Adab 2,896]

On 11/26/2023 at 6:36 PM, Photophosphorylation said:

I don't know if you saw it, but in last V-LOG (Tanki Online V-LOG: Episode 495) they announced, that they will bring special parkour hull augment to the game. I think that is pretty good news for all parkourists, we just need to wait for official announcement.

@Adab, do you have any info about the option, how to reach/obtain this augment? Will they add it to official parkour members only or to everyone? Because some people are not in clubs but they still do some OMP or something.

I already saw that they announced about those augments in the v-log soon after the v-log was published. I came to know about those augments only after watching the v-log, so I only know as much as you know about those new augments. I don't know if I'll be responsible for giving those new augments. Maybe more information about the new augments will be shared soon, let's wait

[williew 19]

Since there seems to be no discussion about the new ruleset, I will start the discussion as an old parkourist and lurker of this section. The new ruleset is in my opinion incredible bureaucracy and I honestly hope that ChatGPT wrote it. Parkour is and has been an unintended side effect of Tanki Online's mechanics. It has been quite a journey for various clubs to achieve the official status and special paints. Restructuring parkour like this is an absolute joke.

[Adab 2,896]

On 12/5/2023 at 11:25 PM, williew said:

Since there seems to be no discussion about the new ruleset, I will start the discussion as an old parkourist and lurker of this section. The new ruleset is in my opinion incredible bureaucracy and I honestly hope that ChatGPT wrote it. Parkour is and has been an unintended side effect of Tanki Online's mechanics. It has been quite a journey for various clubs to achieve the official status and special paints. Restructuring parkour like this is an absolute joke.

Thank you for your comment, but I would say it is far from "incredible bureaucracy". I'm not exactly sure why you hope that ChatGPT wrote it, ChatGPT didn't write it, I spent countless hours writing it (I think I should have made ChatGPT write it lol). Parkour may have been an unintended side effect of Tanki Online's mechanics, but it isn't now, past is past, things gotta change with time you know. Restructuring parkour like that isn't an absolute joke (please do more research to find out why), such rules should have existed for a long time now, it's a shame no one made such rules when Tanki parkour was at its peak

[SwiftSmoky 8,445]

On 12/5/2023 at 11:58 PM, Adab said:

it's a shame no one made such rules when Tanki parkour was at its peak

I kept the rules to a minimum back then and it was perfect. People did their thing, had fun, got club support as soon as it seemed right, and Official status was just the game's way of saying "you're doing great, you've contributed so much to the community and we appreciate you ". Everything was simple and good, at least outside the minds of people who overcomplicated things (like those who pressured people to make commentated videos like ToT to get a paint).

Spoiler

I reduced the parkour rules to 5 or 6 iirc, basic stuff like make a members list, only what clubs really needed to get started. Sadly the next admin was keen on making parkour more like eSports with strict rules about everything, and it seems that once a rule is written it's very unlikely to be removed, so they mostly kept accumulating since then, like the clutter that they are.

By the way, dear club leaders and members, I want you to know that when the rules are crossing a line, you can stand up for what matters to you. The way I saw it as a club leader, the rule makers write their vision on paper, but we're the ones deciding what actually happens. When they wrote that players can't be members in more than one club, they put some other value above my desire to play with my friends and do what I want with them, so my friends and I just ignored the rule, and the admins did nothing about it. When the rules said Official clubs can't have club members that were banned in the past, I said I'd rather reject the Official status than abandon a friend, and despite keeping the rule, the admins did not enforce it. When people told me to make commentated videos like ToT to get a paint, I stuck to my values and said that I'd rather make the videos I want than give it up just for a paint.

If you feel like the way the Official status is set up right now makes it lose it's value, or pushes you to do something you'd rather not, like creating lots of short or low effort videos to reach the top level of club support faster (which is required to become Official), you can do what I would have done: Reject the Official status and stick to playing the game in a way that doesn't take the fun and satisfaction out of it. Don't apply for Official status, and publicly state why you don't do it. Don't rush to make 30 short videos, and say that the requirements for support force you to choose between getting more supplies/spectators and making the videos you want to make.

Some of the rules and requirements are ridiculous, in fact so ridiculous that I was able to write a parody about them before they were published (not that reading the parody made any difference in the administration's choice about the rules), maybe I'll post it here later, for now here's a little taste:

Quote

It's time to migrate to YouTube Shorts! Because you need 30 videos of at least 1 minute to get the top level of club support. FnF posted exactly 30 videos in all of it's existence, I'm sure they'd be happy to hear that they finally proved their worth without compromising, and it took them only 4 years.

[williew 19]

On 12/6/2023 at 6:41 PM, Maserati said:

Shalom brother, I hope you are living great in these troubled times and staying strong.

I'm going to talk about something which no one has the balls to talk about, because it's not really black and white. What you know from coming on once in a while vs what you know from when you actually play the game.

I think you are right but you're not understanding, this was fair for when Tanki was alive. When TFP and FnF were dominating the scene, especially the OGs, tanki had more than 30k-40k active players online at once. No one was using cheats. FnF was providing something to the game which I honestly think no club can ever achieve again, through montages. They showed tricks which weren't possible, unlike the traditional guides. And we produced a video every 2-3 months, which always got the attention of not only parkour players but the actual game.

And there was a clear separation about communities, EN Community had EN players and EN guys, all friends. DE had DE players and DE guys. RU Community had RU players and RU guys. And even then, there was a lot of corruption, but most importantly, neither TFP nor FnF did parkour for a paint. I know myself, having been in TFP in the old days with the basic orange paint, it took TFP 2-3 years to bring Phoenix into the EN Community.

And you're living in the past. Now, the mechanics are so different. I remember we used to sit in a map, 7 hours looking for tricks or doing tricks. I entered MoP recently just for old times sakes. Having won 2016 and 2017, the amount of time and effort that went into them, was countless but it was really fun and enjoyable. Now, you can have lightweight augment and can basically do things in less than 10 attempts. Do 10 tricks, and you got a video.

And if you look at all official clubs, there's guys who do nothing, no parkour. They design fonts and banners for the clubs and get all parkour paints. It became a joke. 3 Clubs with Phoenix, 2 clubs with Aero. They call Aero a DE Paint, and 1 club has 95% RU players which don't speak DE at all, have no knowledge of DE. One club, NFT, lost their paint Glide. They tried to sell their paint for money, NFT isn't the first club to do this.

So, in the modern era of parkour clubs, we have easy tricks, no one is bringing contribution to the game like FnF was able to do with montages. You get way more supplies and crystals now, which back then we got absolutely none. What else are the clubs doing?

You will see in many of the official club servers, they talk of using cheats, post third party software to do parkour. Now, go watch every video, understanding players use cheats. The game promotes their video on the announcements, is this a joke? I can tell you now, in TFP MoP finals, people shared accounts (no i didn't share my account), but no one would get caught, because the game just does not have the ability to check everything. Now upscale this, by tenfold. People share accounts, people need to run scripts to parkour, what is tanki online promoting?

So, now, in the modern era of parkour clubs, we have tricks which don't take so many attempts. We have players sharing accounts, we have players using cheats and third party for tricks. We have players who design banners for paints, over 3 clubs with Phoenix, 2 clubs with Aero. Aero is called a DE paint, yet 1 club calls themselves a fully EN Club with 50% EN, 50% RU. ToD, 95% RU, not one of them has been to the DE Forum to post there except 1 guy. People are in numerous clubs just for the paint, there's roles to give people paint such as "reporter". What's this role.

Do you really think @SwiftSmoky @williew you can compare the past to the present? Look at the guys liking your posts, they're all aware of this, and they just make a joke of you to comment here about the past. The past, you won't find any of this, players using cheats or third party. Sharing accounts, yes but it was so infrequent. Hours to make tricks? Yes. Hours to make edits? Yes. Did clubs actually go to huge efforts to sell their club paint? No. 

What all of us did to contribute to Tanki Online Parkour, can never be fazed. 

(from Shadow I_NuB_I )

Thanks for the reality check, perhaps I am too out of touch indeed. On the one hand it makes me think that perhaps I should have stayed out of this, on the other hand this is the discussion I wanted to have. Even though I agree it's impossible to compare the past with the present: I do stand by my point that it seems beyond arbitrary to remove official status from clubs that have been creating great content over many years.

The issues with regards to scripts, account sharing and paint selling seems to me like a task for the parkour administration to investigate and tackle. I would support (consideration of) removal of official status in those cases.

[Mr.Designer 161]

On 12/6/2023 at 6:41 PM, Maserati said:

Now, the mechanics are so different. I remember we used to sit in a map, 7 hours looking for tricks or doing tricks. I entered MoP recently just for old times sakes. Having won 2016 and 2017, the amount of time and effort that went into them, was countless but it was really fun and enjoyable. Now, you can have lightweight augment and can basically do things in less than 10 attempts. Do 10 tricks, and you got a video.

We too use to sit on maps for hours to look for tricks or doing tricks nowadays. Why you think that it isn't fun nowadays? You might think that having Lightweight augment makes everything easy, and you are partially right, it makes all old tricks easier, but you forget that Lightweight gives new opportunities to create even more creative and difficult tricks. It's same as in past, there were hard tricks with old M0-M4 and nowadays there are hard tricks with Lightweight. 

 

On 12/6/2023 at 6:41 PM, Maserati said:

You will see in many of the official club servers, they talk of using cheats, post third party software to do parkour. Now, go watch every video, understanding players use cheats. The game promotes their video on the announcements, is this a joke? I can tell you now, in TFP MoP finals, people shared accounts (no i didn't share my account), but no one would get caught, because the game just does not have the ability to check everything. Now upscale this, by tenfold. People share accounts, people need to run scripts to parkour, what is tanki online promoting?

Don't connect shamefull "parkour" fighting with actual parkour. Can you even point a single official parkour club video that has cheats included? It's quite opposite nowadays, in past you mostly could get away with sharing accounts and using cheats, insulting in private maps etc. now they're checking everything, you can't freely talk with your friends in private battles because they're checking everything. If you get hacked and your account get banned in result you can lose it totally, because who cares about players?

 

On 12/6/2023 at 6:41 PM, Maserati said:

So, now, in the modern era of parkour clubs, we have tricks which don't take so many attempts. We have players sharing accounts, we have players using cheats and third party for tricks.

Replace "modern era" with "OG era" and this sentence still will be true. Both happened in past, and happens nowadays, it won't change.

So please, take pink glasses off, and stop idolising your old times over current times. It's not about times when you play the game, it's about having fun. If people still have fun doing parkour even nowadays then what's wrong with it? Parkour itself hasn't became less fun, you still can do totally new, challenging tricks like you could in past. It's just that you have different tools to work with.

[SwiftSmoky 8,445]

On 12/6/2023 at 7:41 PM, Maserati said:

Shalom brother, I hope you are living great in these troubled times and staying strong.

Thank you!

It was hard at first but I'm doing much better now

On 12/6/2023 at 7:41 PM, Maserati said:

I'm going to talk about something which no one has the balls to talk about, because it's not really black and white. What you know from coming on once in a while vs what you know from when you actually play the game.

I talked about the past because @Adab said that it would've been better if the current rules would have existed back then. Before posting anything on the forum, I wrote to @williew about how the players of this time might be getting what they want from (some of) the new rules. And the part about people's ability to influence the rules, that's just advice in case people want to change things. I'm not trying to decide for the current players what they want, but it sure seems like a bunch of players want to change things.

[Adab 2,896]

On 12/6/2023 at 6:19 PM, SwiftSmoky said:

I kept the rules to a minimum back then and it was perfect. People did their thing, had fun, got club support as soon as it seemed right, and Official status was just the game's way of saying "you're doing great, you've contributed so much to the community and we appreciate you ". Everything was simple and good, at least outside the minds of people who overcomplicated things (like those who pressured people to make commentated videos like ToT to get a paint).

  Reveal hidden contents

I reduced the parkour rules to 5 or 6 iirc, basic stuff like make a members list, only what clubs really needed to get started. Sadly the next admin was keen on making parkour more like eSports with strict rules about everything, and it seems that once a rule is written it's very unlikely to be removed, so they mostly kept accumulating since then, like the clutter that they are.

By the way, dear club leaders and members, I want you to know that when the rules are crossing a line, you can stand up for what matters to you. The way I saw it as a club leader, the rule makers write their vision on paper, but we're the ones deciding what actually happens. When they wrote that players can't be members in more than one club, they put some other value above my desire to play with my friends and do what I want with them, so my friends and I just ignored the rule, and the admins did nothing about it. When the rules said Official clubs can't have club members that were banned in the past, I said I'd rather reject the Official status than abandon a friend, and despite keeping the rule, the admins did not enforce it. When people told me to make commentated videos like ToT to get a paint, I stuck to my values and said that I'd rather make the videos I want than give it up just for a paint.

If you feel like the way the Official status is set up right now makes it lose it's value, or pushes you to do something you'd rather not, like creating lots of short or low effort videos to reach the top level of club support faster (which is required to become Official), you can do what I would have done: Reject the Official status and stick to playing the game in a way that doesn't take the fun and satisfaction out of it. Don't apply for Official status, and publicly state why you don't do it. Don't rush to make 30 short videos, and say that the requirements for support force you to choose between getting more supplies/spectators and making the videos you want to make.

Some of the rules and requirements are ridiculous, in fact so ridiculous that I was able to write a parody about them before they were published (not that reading the parody made any difference in the administration's choice about the rules), maybe I'll post it here later, for now here's a little taste:

It wasn't perfect. This is the problem, you think what you did was perfect even though it wasn't actually perfect. Did you realize that keeping the rules at a minimum rather than keeping them at the level that they should be is a reason, if not THE reason, for multiple issues that the parkour community faced? Oh and, not everyone got club support as soon as it seemed right. Maybe everything was simple, but everything wasn't good, you claiming everything was good is just weird

I must correct you, club leaders and members aren't the ones deciding what actually happens, maybe it was like that in the past, but not now. And, just because some admins did nothing about a rule violation or did not enforce a rule doesn't mean I will do the same. No one is forced to apply for the Official Parkour Club Program. None of the rules and requirements are ridiculous or so ridiculous, all of them were made with reasoning. You can write a parody about anything, even about any great thing in the world, because you were able to write a parody about something doesn't mean it is so ridiculous

[Adab 2,896]

On 12/11/2023 at 8:09 PM, Devoid said:

We are not aware of the facets of your role, so stop speaking so matter-of-factly in a way that makes people feel inferior compared to you. With every other Helper position in this game, there is a Tanki-affiliated site that lists what that specific position does behind-the-scenes, but the same cannot be said about the Parkour Clubs Manager. It is justified to believe that your job calls for more than just "making rules", but like I said, there is no place we can look to that would clearly tell us whether these beliefs are true or false.

Writing rules is not a complicated matter, and surely does not consume all of your time. As such, it is valid to believe that a Parkour Clubs Manager would have remaining time to occupy, and it is valid to expect that this additional time is spent doing other things for the community, such as organizing events for the parkour community. And he is not suggesting that you alone would have to organize them - you do not even have to organize them at all. You are listed as a "Manager". Managers oversee other people. You could put together a team of people to do the physical organizing work, and simply oversee them completing this. It should not take a third-party's initiative to finally see a parkour contest being organized.

It is very offensive and immature of you to classify something entirely subjective as "weird". You yourself asked for feedback relating to the rules, and as such, he shared his opinions. Now, you appear to be entirely close-minded, thinking only you are correct and shutting down any opposing opinions. What's the point in asking for feedback if you're just going to tell us all that we're wrong?

It is valid to think otherwise however, as there is a track record to back up such a belief. There were several Official clubs that routinely did not obey deadlines, yet no consequences were ever given out. Deadlines for video posting was (and still is) an objective rule, not a subjective one. I could understand a mere warning being issued for a first-time slip-up, but allowing repeat offenders to continually push the boundaries of the rules causes the integrity and significance of the rules to be questioned.

Seems like you made this post just because you had to write something negatively lol

[SwiftSmoky 8,445]

On 12/10/2023 at 1:30 AM, Adab said:

Did you realize that keeping the rules at a minimum rather than keeping them at the level that they should be is a reason, if not THE reason, for multiple issues that the parkour community faced?

What were the issues, and how could rules solve them?

 

I just looked at the old club support topic and found this post which explains part of the reason why I kept the rules to a minimum:

Quote

Question from a player:

What is a good video? Is there an exact boundary that divides 'creative' from 'not creative' ? Can we objectively decide if a video is good or bad?

My answer:

Yes, a creative video is one that contains new tricks that were never used in parkour before, or at least ones that are rarely used, or special variations and combinations of tricks, though there's a very very big difference between using rare tricks and coming up with your own new tricks. Other than creativity, the greatness of videos is mostly measured by subjective factors because, after all, the videos are there for people to enjoy and not just to cross some clearly defined border of requirements. For example, you can't measure the showiness of tricks in a non subjective way.

In other words, I judged things by how well they do at their goal. I didn't need to make rules like "make the video at least 1 minute long" because a bad 30 seconds video wouldn't get anyone a reward simply because the video is bad. And a good 30 seconds video that shows something special that a lot of time and effort went into it, would be recognized and rewarded. Here's a good 30 seconds video for example btw, as you can see in the comments, people couldn't care less about the video duration 

And yes I did give a definition of what creativity means, and I could have written it as a rule or a scoring formula, but that would only make things worse for 2 reasons: it could end up forcing low score on amazing videos (and vice versa), and it could divert people's focus to creativity because it's "mandatory" and sacrifice their own special way of making their videos great and worthy of support.
 

On 12/10/2023 at 1:30 AM, Adab said:

Oh and, not everyone got club support as soon as it seemed right.

I guess I should add that sometimes I was delayed or limited by the community manager (or other people who limited him too), I couldn't always give things as soon as I wanted, and I always wished I could give more spectators. People were still happy, because things were improving, and they knew I'm doing everything I can to help them. Read the old posts about club support, they're full of gratitude, you won't find in my time any of the complaints that you are getting. You have the power to give much more than I could, and yet people have complaints about how that goes, doesn't that mean there's a problem now that didn't exist back then?

Don't bother picking on small flaws, give me the big issues, the problems that were in my control, not technicalities.

[Dynasty 1,203]

On 12/9/2023 at 7:30 PM, Adab said:

Oh and, not everyone got club support as soon as it seemed right.

[Adab 2,896]

On 12/11/2023 at 8:09 PM, Devoid said:

We are not aware of the facets of your role, so stop speaking so matter-of-factly in a way that makes people feel inferior compared to you. With every other Helper position in this game, there is a Tanki-affiliated site that lists what that specific position does behind-the-scenes, but the same cannot be said about the Parkour Clubs Manager. It is justified to believe that your job calls for more than just "making rules", but like I said, there is no place we can look to that would clearly tell us whether these beliefs are true or false.

I'm not exactly sure who are the "We" here, but because you guys are not aware of the "facets" is why I explained about my Parkour Clubs Manager and curator positions. You can contact the Head Administration to know whether the "beliefs" are true or false

On 12/11/2023 at 8:09 PM, Devoid said:

Writing rules is not a complicated matter, and surely does not consume all of your time. As such, it is valid to believe that a Parkour Clubs Manager would have remaining time to occupy, and it is valid to expect that this additional time is spent doing other things for the community, such as organizing events for the parkour community. And he is not suggesting that you alone would have to organize them - you do not even have to organize them at all. You are listed as a "Manager". Managers oversee other people. You could put together a team of people to do the physical organizing work, and simply oversee them completing this. It should not take a third-party's initiative to finally see a parkour contest being organized.

Writing rules can not just be a complicated matter, but a very complicated matter. Making the Parkour Rules was more than a very complicated matter for me, because of multiple reasons, for example, there was a lot to think about, especially about many fundamental things. And I did not just write rules, I went way beyond my comfort zone and prepared two programs: the Parkour Club Support Program, and the Official Parkour Club Program. I spent a lot of effort on both small and big details. As you may have noticed, the Parkour Rules, the Parkour Club Support Program, and the Official Parkour Club Program are nothing like the parkour community of Tanki Online has ever seen or had. And don't forget real life, I was going through an incredibly tough time in real life, and I also had a lot to do in real life. I think I can tell that writing rules surely does consume all of your time, at least mentally if not physically, and a Parkour Clubs Manager would have no remaining time to occupy in organizing events for the parkour community in any way or manner. Not all "Managers" oversee other people. I never had, and I still don't have, any authority to put together a team of people to do the physical organizing work for any parkour event, and simply oversee them completing it, but it's not like I never tried to organize parkour contests or events, check how I expressed my interest to organize parkour contests in this forum post

On 12/11/2023 at 8:09 PM, Devoid said:

It is very offensive and immature of you to classify something entirely subjective as "weird". You yourself asked for feedback relating to the rules, and as such, he shared his opinions. Now, you appear to be entirely close-minded, thinking only you are correct and shutting down any opposing opinions. What's the point in asking for feedback if you're just going to tell us all that we're wrong?

I'm sorry if it was very offensive, I did not mean to offend anyone, but I personally don't think it was "very offensive" and "immature" because 1) I don't think I even classified anything as weird, and 2) classifying anything as "weird" isn't "very offensive" and "immature". I wasn't even being "entirely close-minded", I didn't even think that only I am correct, and I did not even shut down any opposing opinions, I was simply responding to opinions or feedback on a forum where doing so is acceptable. Ever heard of responding to feedback? I didn't even tell that you all are wrong

On 12/11/2023 at 8:09 PM, Devoid said:

It is valid to think otherwise however, as there is a track record to back up such a belief. There were several Official clubs that routinely did not obey deadlines, yet no consequences were ever given out. Deadlines for video posting was (and still is) an objective rule, not a subjective one. I could understand a mere warning being issued for a first-time slip-up, but allowing repeat offenders to continually push the boundaries of the rules causes the integrity and significance of the rules to be questioned.

I never said that it is invalid to think otherwise. There was no rule being enforced that said that not obeying "deadlines" would result in consequences, that's why those official parkour clubs didn't receive any consequences from me for that. I don't think repeat offenders were allowed to continually push the boundaries of the rules

[Devoid 2,601]

On 12/11/2023 at 4:38 PM, Adab said:

Don't make false claims without knowing, or at least without trying to know, the truth. I read more than a single word of your "message". I gave a lot of thought to feedback, so much so that I thought about them day and night, even while in bed. What made you think that I didn't give any thought to feedback?

Because my original message was speaking only of the discussion that has occurred in this topic specifically since you posted in "Parkour Announcements" on Dec. 4th asking people to share their opinions on the new systems. I feel my phrasing in my original message today got that across crystal clear. You misinterpreted. Further evidence proving my suspicion that you did not read my message before responding with allegations that I was only trying to say something negative...

[Devoid 2,601]

On 12/11/2023 at 5:32 PM, Adab said:

And I did not just write rules, I went way beyond my comfort zone and prepared two programs: the Parkour Club Support Program, and the Official Parkour Club Program. I spent a lot of effort on both small and big details. As you may have noticed, the Parkour Rules, the Parkour Club Support Program, and the Official Parkour Club Program are nothing like the parkour community of Tanki Online has ever seen or had.

I literally cannot tell if you are legitimately serious or joking here...

All three of those are long-standing elements of the parkour community. Yes, you made some alterations to them, but they are both not new and closely resemble items we have had for years. You are blatantly gaslighting the parkour community by stating these new items are "nothing like the parkour community of Tanki Online has ever seen or had". It is despicable.

As for you apparently going "way beyond your comfort zone" in preparing the Support Program and Official Club Program, the only thing I can possibly think of that makes that statement true is the guilt you must/should be feeling from blatantly plagiarizing others' work. The framework of both programs mirrors that that was created by people that held a similar role before you. All you did was paraphrase some sections, slap your nickname on it, and now you're actively trying to pass it off as your own...

[Alsar 592]

@Adabare you serious right now? Is this an application for Tester helper position or for the Parkour club support program? What do you even need our real names for? I personally refuse to write my real name in a application for parkour ressorses that is no sense there and some people know that i have never tell others with my real name or other information so whats the real reason and point for asking that question in a application for parkour club support!? 

[Adab 2,896]

On 12/15/2023 at 12:49 PM, Alsar said:

@Adabare you serious right now? Is this an application for Tester helper position or for the Parkour club support program? What do you even need our real names for? I personally refuse to write my real name in a application for parkour ressorses that is no sense there and some people know that i have never tell others with my real name or other information so whats the real reason and point for asking that question in a application for parkour club support!? 

The main reason why the Parkour Club Support Program Application is asking for real names is to avoid impersonation as the application can not be connected/linked to anyone's Tanki Online account. I understand your concern, but I cannot remove questions about real names from the application because of the aforementioned reason

[Alsar 592]

On 12/15/2023 at 1:00 PM, Adab said:

The main reason why the Parkour Club Support Program Application is asking for real names is to avoid impersonation as the application can not be connected/linked to anyone's Tanki Online account. I understand your concern, but I cannot remove questions about real names from the application because of the aforementioned reason

You could just change it by writing that the Parkour club Leader have to write a private message on forum then you wouldnt need the real name and also it would be sure that not someone else wouldnt send the application out of the real person because account sharing isnt allowed 

[Adab 2,896]

On 12/15/2023 at 2:21 PM, Alsar said:

You could just change it by writing that the Parkour club Leader have to write a private message on forum then you wouldnt need the real name and also it would be sure that not someone else wouldnt send the application out of the real person because account sharing isnt allowed 

Hmm, I think that will complicate the procedure unnecessarily, do you have any other ideas? If you're worried about your real name becoming publicly known, then do know that it is written in the Parkour Club Support Program Application that your application and the information you enter in your application are meant to be private and accessible to the Parkour Administration of Tanki Online

[Alsar 592]

On 12/15/2023 at 1:43 PM, Adab said:

Hmm, I think that will complicate the procedure unnecessarily, do you have any other ideas? If you're worried about your real name becoming publicly known, then do know that it is written in the Parkour Club Support Program Application that your application and the information you enter in your application are meant to be private and accessible to the Parkour Administration of Tanki Online

If someone comes and writes on the application every information same like me out of real name then how you gonna know which is the real and fake one? 

[Devoid 2,601]

On 12/15/2023 at 5:43 AM, Adab said:

Hmm, I think that will complicate the procedure unnecessarily, do you have any other ideas?

Maybe you could mandate that Parkour Club Leaders link their club’s official YouTube channel to the Discord profile they included in their application. Users can only link their Discord profile to a specific YouTube channel via signing into a YouTube-affiliated site, which would prove that they are indeed the owner of the club (as they have the ability to upload on said linked channel). After you add them in Discord, you’ll be able to verify that that Discord profile showcases the name of the club’s channel, complete with a hyperlink to verify it’s the same channel from the application form (and not an imposter channel under the same name).

Of course, some people might have issues with being forced into doing something they don’t want to do regarding a third-party platform, but I think such people would consider this better than giving out confidential information.

[SwiftSmoky 8,445]

lol if you don't know the applicant by name, what stops them from applying with a fake name? And what stops other people who know the applicant by name from using that name? And if the helper's name is like a password for identification, does that mean players whose nickname is their real name can't apply to be helpers because their "password" is revealed?

When a friend of mine applied to be a helper but didn't want to reveal the name, the admin said that it's just for the convenience of knowing how to call you instead of using the nickname (on Skype), and it was ok to skip that question.

On 12/12/2023 at 12:47 AM, SwiftSmoky said:

What were the issues, and how could rules solve them?

I'll take your silence as "I couldn't come up with any"

[Adab 2,896]

On 12/16/2023 at 8:59 PM, SwiftSmoky said:

I'll take your silence as "I couldn't come up with any"

Nah, I'm simply not sure if I should answer that question as I'm genuinely worried that you may not like whatever my answer to it will be and that answering it may result in unnecessary and irrelevant discussions here

[SwiftSmoky 8,445]

On 12/16/2023 at 11:38 PM, Adab said:

Nah, I'm simply not sure if I should answer that question as I'm genuinely worried that you may not like whatever my answer to it will be and that answering it may result in unnecessary and irrelevant discussions here

I like when people speak honestly and openly, and I always appreciate being told the truth. If people always kept their criticism to themselves, how would I learn?

Yes I might disagree with what you'll say, but I wouldn't call that discussion irrelevant, it's on the topic of parkour rules.

Also, I think it'd be more pleasant for everyone if you were more open about your thoughts, more of the "I'm here for you, let's hear each other out" type, instead of keeping the discussion somewhat one-sided and being the "I heard you, I insist and won't explain myself, I'm a professional, here's a formal statement instead" type. Trust me, it feels good to be understood and not have to use the voice of authority, and to have people feel that you are on their side and appreciate your effort and thank you for it.