Parkour Discussion / Q&A

[Adab 2,896]

On 12/15/2023 at 10:55 PM, Devoid said:

Maybe you could mandate that Parkour Club Leaders link their club’s official YouTube channel to the Discord profile they included in their application. Users can only link their Discord profile to a specific YouTube channel via signing into a YouTube-affiliated site, which would prove that they are indeed the owner of the club (as they have the ability to upload on said linked channel). After you add them in Discord, you’ll be able to verify that that Discord profile showcases the name of the club’s channel, complete with a hyperlink to verify it’s the same channel from the application form (and not an imposter channel under the same name).

Of course, some people might have issues with being forced into doing something they don’t want to do regarding a third-party platform, but I think such people would consider this better than giving out confidential information.

This is a good idea (and an idea that I think came to my mind before), but I don't think it can be a solution as I think more than 1 person can verify and link a YouTube channel to their Discord account using a Brand Account. Anyway, I deleted the question about first name and the question about last name from the Parkour Club Support Program Application some days ago, thank you for sharing your idea though. Never stop sharing ideas! 

[emrakul 7,801]

Just stumbled upon this and read most of the discussion since December. I know it's all over, but I want to add my thoughts.
I never liked turning general parkour into an official system. It was always about doing something you want to do for the result, not for the reward. You probably consider me a hypocrite because I was and still am participating in parkour contests, but in my opinion there's a difference between a contest and parkour in general.

I'll say what I believe most know, but don't want to hear, or refuse to accept.

Parkour club paints are and always were the issue.

Ask yourself - Have you ever been in a situation where you needed to finish a video within a time frame to meet some criteria of parkour support? Did you do it for the parkour, or to keep the paint/get support? I have been there. It's a whole different feeling to work on a video that you want to make as good as you possibly can and THAT is your goal, or you are working on a video just to finish it, because deadline is pushing. I'm not saying that the second video can't be good, but your goal is to get some reward out of it, not to produce a video that is reward on its own.
You may have a different opinion, and consider obtaining a (all) parkour club paint a goal - for prestige, collection, or you just like the paint. I respect that, but mostly disagree. I can understand the prestige of being in a specific club and the paint representing you - if you are actually doing a lot for the parkour. I still think it's core of the problem. Maybe parkour club paints are the last thing keeping it alive, but is that good?

 

I hate to say this, but you should take example from the parkour fighting community (if I can even call it that). They certainly don't do it for support from tanki. Do they still do it? Do they need supplies? Did *anything* stop them?

If you want to do parkour, do it for the parkour. You don't need special paint. Supplies are quite easy to obtain these days, and even many years ago it was possible. What's stopping you then?

[Adab 2,896]

On 1/19/2024 at 1:27 AM, emrakul said:

Just stumbled upon this and read most of the discussion since December. I know it's all over, but I want to add my thoughts.
I never liked turning general parkour into an official system. It was always about doing something you want to do for the result, not for the reward. You probably consider me a hypocrite because I was and still am participating in parkour contests, but in my opinion there's a difference between a contest and parkour in general.

I'll say what I believe most know, but don't want to hear, or refuse to accept.

Parkour club paints are and always were the issue.

Ask yourself - Have you ever been in a situation where you needed to finish a video within a time frame to meet some criteria of parkour support? Did you do it for the parkour, or to keep the paint/get support? I have been there. It's a whole different feeling to work on a video that you want to make as good as you possibly can and THAT is your goal, or you are working on a video just to finish it, because deadline is pushing. I'm not saying that the second video can't be good, but your goal is to get some reward out of it, not to produce a video that is reward on its own.
You may have a different opinion, and consider obtaining a (all) parkour club paint a goal - for prestige, collection, or you just like the paint. I respect that, but mostly disagree. I can understand the prestige of being in a specific club and the paint representing you - if you are actually doing a lot for the parkour. I still think it's core of the problem. Maybe parkour club paints are the last thing keeping it alive, but is that good?

 

I hate to say this, but you should take example from the parkour fighting community (if I can even call it that). They certainly don't do it for support from tanki. Do they still do it? Do they need supplies? Did *anything* stop them?

If you want to do parkour, do it for the parkour. You don't need special paint. Supplies are quite easy to obtain these days, and even many years ago it was possible. What's stopping you then?

You got some good points, but I think you need to understand the nature and the popularity of Tanki Online parkour in general. Sure some players may parkour because they love parkour, but the majority of the players are not like that. Would you rather give priority to the majority or the minority? Do you really believe that parkour would become a main thing of the game and remain as such for a long time without any support from Tanki or paints?

And I don't think the "deadline" is a major factor here, because the "deadline" is so generous. Don't believe me? Well, then read the rules of the Parkour Rules that I have quoted below:

• "4.9.2. YouTube Channel Activity: Supported Clubs must keep at least one of their YouTube channels active by publishing at least 1 new video every 12 weeks on the channel. The video can be anything related to Parkour and of any length. The video is considered "new" as long as it is not a video published by the Club before, even if it contains Parkour tricks from any of their previously published videos. Videos are considered published only if their visibility is "public". If a Club violates this rule 2 times in a row, it will be removed from the Parkour Club Support Program at the Administration's discretion."
• "5.5.2. YouTube Channel Activity: Official Clubs must keep at least one of their YouTube channels active by publishing at least 1 new video every 12 weeks on it. The video can be anything related to Parkour and of any length. The video is considered "new" as long as it is not a video published by the Club before, even if it contains Parkour tricks from any of their previously published videos. Videos are considered published only if their visibility is "public". If a Club violates this rule 2 times in a row, it will be removed from the Official Parkour Club Progam at the Administration's discretion."

[Devoid 2,601]

On 1/18/2024 at 4:58 PM, Adab said:

You got some good points, but I think you need to understand the nature and the popularity of Tanki Online parkour in general. Sure some players may parkour because they love parkour, but the majority of the players are not like that. Would you rather give priority to the majority or the minority? Do you really believe that parkour would become a main thing of the game and remain as such for a long time without any support from Tanki or paints?

I went through and counted the number of individual parkourists listed as a "Parkourist" within the topics of all currently-active clubs (regardless of locale). There's only 59 of them. Just putting that out there while the topic of parkour popularity is being discussed. It's a hard pill to swallow, but parkour is not popular anymore.

Now...I wholeheartedly agree with your claim that the majority of players involved with the parkour scene do not parkour because they love parkour, rather they do it for other reasons (mainly the exclusive paints). Yes, it's a sad sight to see, but I am not going to disagree with you. What I would like to do is point out that these new rules/systems significantly shorten the number of players that will own one of these paints. We both agree that the majority of parkourists parkour because they want a paint, so I guess what I am wondering is: Why, then, would new rules be rolled out that inherently reduce the number of each paint there is to go around?

[SwiftSmoky 8,445]

On 1/19/2024 at 12:58 AM, Adab said:

Do you really believe that parkour would become a main thing of the game and remain as such for a long time without any support from Tanki or paints?

Support yes, paints absolutely not. Most clubs that ever existed, assumed they'll probably never get a paint, or didn't even care about it.

On 1/19/2024 at 12:58 AM, Adab said:

Sure some players may parkour because they love parkour, but the majority of the players are not like that.

If someone parkours a lot, he probably likes parkour, even if he also wants a paint. Remember when players who didn't love parkour tried to get paints? It was viewed as a bad motivation, they were called "paint diggers" and they were not wanted, because they weren't dedicated enough. In my experience with FnF applicants, paint diggers always quit, and those who like parkour gladly stick around even if they don't get the paint (we had many such "helpers").

No one in their right mind spends a whole year or more doing something they don't like for such a small reward. If they really do, please please PLEASE for the love of God don't make them keep doing it. And if they don't, don't treat them like paint diggers.

 

As @emrakul said, paints were always a problem. In fact, the idea of parkour paints was a problem even before the Phoenix paint existed, because it put pressure on people to do what some thought would get them a paint, at the expense of what they really wanted to do. It was more distracting than motivating. At this point, paints are also too political, have lost their value and meaning, and if I understand correctly, now you've also taken away the paint from the one club that got it before all this mess. Parkour paints are an epic fail.

Almost half the clubs closed recently, and one of them publicly stated that the administration (you) pushed them to quit. People don't want a cheap prize to motivate them to play, they want support and freedom to do things their way. In response to players saying they feel rushed, you call the activity requirements generous. Instead of respecting their desire to take their time and release videos when they feel ready, and without an unwanted grind, you reply to them with arguments that basically invalidate their feelings. I can relate to their frustration, there were times when I wanted to quit too because the management neglected my club's needs and values and mistreated us.

 

The parkour community, or what's left of it, is telling you how they feel. Those feelings are real, and they matter, don't ignore them, don't neglect them.

 

By the way, about an earlier message of yours:

On 12/10/2023 at 1:30 AM, Adab said:

None of the rules and requirements are ridiculous or so ridiculous, all of them were made with reasoning. You can write a parody about anything, even about any great thing in the world, because you were able to write a parody about something doesn't mean it is so ridiculous

This is another example of how you completely miss the feelings people communicate to you. Sure, you could point out a logical flaw in the words I used, but you could also take into account that many of the jokes in the parody (that you've read the whole thing) are also explanations for why those rules are problematic and why people feel bad about them.

 

So yeah, free the paint diggers, free clubs from pressure, be generous with support, listen to people's feelings, cookies *-*

[Adab 2,896]

On 1/20/2024 at 4:16 AM, Devoid said:

I went through and counted the number of individual parkourists listed as a "Parkourist" within the topics of all currently-active clubs (regardless of locale). There's only 59 of them. Just putting that out there while the topic of parkour popularity is being discussed. It's a hard pill to swallow, but parkour is not popular anymore.

Now...I wholeheartedly agree with your claim that the majority of players involved with the parkour scene do not parkour because they love parkour, rather they do it for other reasons (mainly the exclusive paints). Yes, it's a sad sight to see, but I am not going to disagree with you. What I would like to do is point out that these new rules/systems significantly shorten the number of players that will own one of these paints. We both agree that the majority of parkourists parkour because they want a paint, so I guess what I am wondering is: Why, then, would new rules be rolled out that inherently reduce the number of each paint there is to go around?

The number of Members of each Official Parkour Club that can get the Phoenix or the Aero paint is the same as it was before, which is 14. The Parkour Rules, however, says that there can only be 1 Official Parkour Club per locale which is something that the Parkour Club Rules (which was effective before the Parkour Rules became effective) didn't say. One of the reasons why it is allowed to have only 1 Official Parkour Club per locale is to preserve the value of both the Program Paints of the Official Parkour Club Program and the Official Parkour Clubs. Players won't be happy to see that a same paint is being given to multiple Official Parkour Clubs, and I don't want players to hate on other Official Parkour Clubs just because they got the same paint as they got. Anyway, isn't it true that the Phoenix, Aero, and Glide paints were at first intended only to be given to 1 Parkour Club at a time?

Let's not forget that the Onyx paint is given through the Parkour Club Support Program, which is easier to get than the Phoenix, Aero, and Glide paints, so players have a lot more chance to get a paint for being in a Parkour Club than before. Instead of ruining the value of Phoenix, Aero, and Glide paints by giving them to an unlimited number of Parkour Clubs, only 1 Parkour Club will have the Phoenix, Aero, and Glide paints, and an unlimited number of Parkour Clubs will have the Onyx paint. And now there is a chance that Official Parkour Clubs will be changed each year instead of letting certain Parkour Clubs to be Official Parkour Clubs forever, this will give other Parkour Clubs an opportunity to become and be an Official Parkour Club. I feel like everything is balanced, or at least, almost balanced now

[Adab 2,896]

On 1/24/2024 at 4:53 AM, SwiftSmoky said:

Support yes, paints absolutely not. Most clubs that ever existed, assumed they'll probably never get a paint, or didn't even care about it.

Well, why not paints? You care about paint diggers but not about "Support" diggers? How do you say that they assumed so or didn't even care about it? If what you are saying is true, then isn't that a reason why most clubs that ever existed closed? Don't you think that those clubs would have kept going if they got support and paints or at least support? History has shown us that without support and paints, most clubs would close (for example, I think you should look at the RU locale)
 

On 1/24/2024 at 4:53 AM, SwiftSmoky said:

If someone parkours a lot, he probably likes parkour, even if he also wants a paint. Remember when players who didn't love parkour tried to get paints? It was viewed as a bad motivation, they were called "paint diggers" and they were not wanted, because they weren't dedicated enough. In my experience with FnF applicants, paint diggers always quit, and those who like parkour gladly stick around even if they don't get the paint (we had many such "helpers").

No one in their right mind spends a whole year or more doing something they don't like for such a small reward. If they really do, please please PLEASE for the love of God don't make them keep doing it. And if they don't, don't treat them like paint diggers.

 

As @emrakul said, paints were always a problem. In fact, the idea of parkour paints was a problem even before the Phoenix paint existed, because it put pressure on people to do what some thought would get them a paint, at the expense of what they really wanted to do. It was more distracting than motivating. At this point, paints are also too political, have lost their value and meaning, and if I understand correctly, now you've also taken away the paint from the one club that got it before all this mess. Parkour paints are an epic fail.

Almost half the clubs closed recently, and one of them publicly stated that the administration (you) pushed them to quit. People don't want a cheap prize to motivate them to play, they want support and freedom to do things their way. In response to players saying they feel rushed, you call the activity requirements generous. Instead of respecting their desire to take their time and release videos when they feel ready, and without an unwanted grind, you reply to them with arguments that basically invalidate their feelings. I can relate to their frustration, there were times when I wanted to quit too because the management neglected my club's needs and values and mistreated us.

 

The parkour community, or what's left of it, is telling you how they feel. Those feelings are real, and they matter, don't ignore them, don't neglect them.

 

By the way, about an earlier message of yours:

This is another example of how you completely miss the feelings people communicate to you. Sure, you could point out a logical flaw in the words I used, but you could also take into account that many of the jokes in the parody (that you've read the whole thing) are also explanations for why those rules are problematic and why people feel bad about them.

 

So yeah, free the paint diggers, free clubs from pressure, be generous with support, listen to people's feelings, cookies *-*

To be honest, you are a great writer, you almost convinced me to ask Tanki to completely remove all the "parkour paints". But I have some questions: Hmm, so what do you suggest? Remove all the "parkour paints"?

I'm not denying that paints were always a problem (in fact, I already know that they were always a problem), but I think there is nothing wrong if someone likes both parkour and paints, and I think there is nothing wrong if someone parkours because they want paints as long as they like parkouring. For you, they may be a "small reward" or a "cheap prize", but for others they may be a big reward or an expensive prize. So, if someone wants to parkour in order to achieve a paint, then why not let them do it? If doing so will only result in players to be happy and parkour to thrive, then why not? I think our current system is supporting those who love parkour and doesn't care about paints and also those who love parkour and care about paints, and at the same time, I think our current system does not support paint diggers, our current system is designed in such a way that it doesn't let paint diggers to easily keep their paints for a long time. I think "parkour paints" are an important factor in keeping parkour alive in Tanki, so I wouldn't call them an epic fail, I think the problem is with how they were given, not with the paints itself, I think they were given with a short term vision without properly keeping the future in mind

You said "now you've also taken away the paint from the one club that got it before all this mess", but what is wrong with that? If you are talking about TFP, Phoenix was not given to TFP as "This is the Phoenix paint and it is for TFP only", and TFP can try to get it again. Can you explain how "paints are also too political"? (I feel that they are a bit political, but I wanna know how exactly they are too political)

It is not true that "Almost half the clubs closed recently", only FTH and LPS closed (out of these two, I think only FTH was active), ToD and PTT moved to the DE locale. I believe that FTH and LPS will re-open in the future, or at least, I hope so..

Can you show me where "one of them publicly stated that the administration (you) pushed them to quit"? I never saw any such. Anyway, do know that I did not push any Parkour Club to quit and I don't even want any Parkour Club to quit, I truly want a lot of Parkour Clubs to open

I was not trying to invalidate anybody's feelings and I did not disrespect anybody's "desire to take their time and release videos when they feel ready, and without an unwanted grind", I was trying to show them that the "activity requirements" are generous and that they are not a major factor because I felt like they didn't even know about those, maybe I should have communicated better

Are you telling me that you read some text that I wrote and concluded that I completely missed somebody's feelings, that I did not listen to people's feelings, and that I did not take into account that many of the jokes in the parody are also explanations for why those rules are problematic and why people feel bad about them? I always try my best to not ignore or neglect or completely miss anybody's feelings and I always try my best to take into account everything others say (even if they are joking in some parody), so please don't jump to such conclusions just based on some text I wrote, I cannot fully express (and nor can you fully understand) how much I care about everyone's feelings and everyone's every word through text

And you said "be generous with support", do know that Tanki is being more generous with support than ever before

Also, do know that I am always monitoring players' feedback and trying to take necessary actions. Nothing is permanant in our world, and so is everything that we have now. And do know that Parkour Clubs do not have to apply for the Parkour Club Support Program or the Official Parkour Club Program, and they don't even have to make videos, they can simply exist, parkour, and have fun 

[Helios 722]

I feel like the 1500 supplies / 200k crystals are a relic of the past.

In current parkouring  players spent a lot of hours maybe even 4-5 hours at a time trying out new tricks and perfecting them. Also in the present-day economy where defender drone or trickster drone using up to 5 supplies at a time, they exhaust around 2500-4000 or even more in those 2-3 hours of parkouring.

Also note that parkour players are MM players too, they would need supplies or crystals to upgrade gear and use in MM. Hence 1500 supplies as the support is pretty less imo. Also by the time you are done making enough tricks for a 1 minute video you blow around 6k or more which in return you only get 1500 as support. 
I would put the amount 3000-5000 or 400K crystals a as a valid number.  

So I would request the Parkour Manager or whoever is responsible to maybe convince the developers. 
This is only fair to the parkour community since we are here to provide entertainment to the Tankers as well as enjoy it ourself.
 

Edited January 25, 2024 by PopSmoke

[SwiftSmoky 8,445]

On 1/24/2024 at 6:21 PM, Adab said:

so what do you suggest? Remove all the "parkour paints"?

Yes! I thought for a long time that removing the Official status and paints is a good idea.

No more distraction, no disagreements about who's Official and about requirements, no competitive rivalry, no suspicion of corruption, and yeah no paint diggers.

Remember when TFP and FnF (and their fans) started arguing about who's better? If I recall correctly, it started when TFP got Phoenix and some players said that FnF is more deserving of a paint than TFP. The first thing Phoenix paint did to the parkour community was create lots of fights and conflicts between people and clubs, and it kept doing this pretty consistently since then.

On 1/24/2024 at 6:21 PM, Adab said:

And you said "be generous with support", do know that Tanki is being more generous with support than ever before

I know, I wasn't clear about what I meant by generosity. I was thinking about not asking the clubs for much in return, like not asking them to keep a certain pace, it certainly doesn't hurt to support slower clubs too, so be kind to them, don't give them a choice between "grind/change for support" and "no grind/change no support". (Sure, a video every 12 weeks can feel easy to some clubs, but every club is unique, some might have less time to play, or want to make longer videos or more time consuming tricks.)

On 1/24/2024 at 6:21 PM, Adab said:

please don't jump to such conclusions just based on some text I wrote, I cannot fully express (and nor can you fully understand) how much I care about everyone's feelings and everyone's every word through text

I guess you're right, I can't read your mind and can't know how much you really care. When it comes to conversations, sometimes it's good to know how to express this caring and not give people the wrong/opposite impression. I believe that you have good intentions, but sometimes it's just really hard.

On 1/24/2024 at 6:21 PM, Adab said:

It is not true that "Almost half the clubs closed recently", only FTH and LPS closed (out of these two, I think only FTH was active), ToD and PTT moved to the DE locale. I believe that FTH and LPS will re-open in the future, or at least, I hope so..

Oh I didn't know that they moved to another locale.

On 1/24/2024 at 6:21 PM, Adab said:

Can you show me where "one of them publicly stated that the administration (you) pushed them to quit"?

It was LPS, here.

On 1/24/2024 at 6:21 PM, Adab said:

Can you explain how "paints are also too political"? (I feel that they are a bit political, but I wanna know how exactly they are too political)

Many people strongly hold opposing opinions about the paints (who should have it, when, for how long), and no matter who will get the paint many people will be unhappy about it. For example, some people think TFP should have Phoenix for historical reasons (or for other reasons), others think there's no good reason to let TFP keep it. And many people have a problem with parkour admins who make their own club Official, they see it as corruption. It seems that there is no option that will be accepted by the community when it comes to giving someone Phoenix.

[Helios 722]

On 1/25/2024 at 12:05 PM, SwiftSmoky said:

Yes! I thought for a long time that removing the Official status and paints is a good idea.

No more distraction, no disagreements about who's Official and about requirements, no competitive rivalry, no suspicion of corruption, and yeah no paint diggers.

Remember when TFP and FnF (and their fans) started arguing about who's better? If I recall correctly, it started when TFP got Phoenix and some players said that FnF is more deserving of a paint than TFP. The first thing Phoenix paint did to the parkour community was create lots of fights and conflicts between people and clubs, and it kept doing this pretty consistently since then.

I strongly disagree with this motion, parkour paints make parkour players who help clubs and club sessions stand out in the battle field.
It's the same thing with eSports paints or Helper Paints, special activities make people stand out. 
If you really think its "distracting" feel free to not accept the paint into your garage while Tanki is giving them out. But lets say you have it already, just unequip it and hide your profile.

There is simply no valid reason to remove them. It gives motivation to new players to maybe in future to start a club or start joining parkour clubs and even be better  for better rewards.

 

[SwiftSmoky 8,445]

On 1/26/2024 at 7:04 PM, PopSmoke said:

I strongly disagree with this motion, parkour paints make parkour players who help clubs and club sessions stand out in the battle field.
It's the same thing with eSports paints or Helper Paints, special activities make people stand out. 
If you really think its "distracting" feel free to not accept the paint into your garage while Tanki is giving them out. But lets say you have it already, just unequip it and hide your profile.

There is simply no valid reason to remove them. It gives motivation to new players to maybe in future to start a club or start joining parkour clubs and even be better  for better rewards.

 

I expected such a reaction, of course people want to stand out and are motivated to get the paint, if this wasn't the case then we wouldn't be having this conversation. The fact that the paint becomes people's goal/motivation is the source of many of the reasons I mentioned in favor of removing the paint.

Clubs were doing just fine before there was a paint to motivate them, there are enough sources of motivation for parkour clubs anyway, and I think it'd be good for players to focus on those better motivations.

[Helios 722]

On 1/26/2024 at 1:02 PM, SwiftSmoky said:

I expected such a reaction, of course people want to stand out and are motivated to get the paint, if this wasn't the case then we wouldn't be having this conversation. The fact that the paint becomes people's goal/motivation is the source of many of the reasons I mentioned in favor of removing the paint.

Clubs were doing just fine before there was a paint to motivate them, there are enough sources of motivation for parkour clubs anyway, and I think it'd be good for players to focus on those better motivations.

Your  statement is the same as, "You should love your job even if it pays no salary, it's not the pay that counts but how good you do the job" 
Introduction of a paint doesn't change a single thing, could you maybe write me down 2 clear points why you think such way. Please keep it brief and understandable. 
Cuz I honestly want to know why you think the same!

[SwiftSmoky 8,445]

On 1/27/2024 at 2:47 AM, PopSmoke said:

Your  statement is the same as, "You should love your job even if it pays no salary, it's not the pay that counts but how good you do the job"

If playing a game feels like a job to you, you're doing it wrong. (Unless you're actually getting paid real money.)

Which brings me to one reason to remove the paint, it makes people feel like making club videos is a job. Gotta keep up with the required upload rate, gotta keep making videos even when you don't feel like it, gotta give up any desires of what you want your videos to be like if those desires contradict some requirements (like you can't make videos that take too long to produce, so bye bye to the more time-consuming tricks or to videos beyond a certain duration or amount of tricks). I've seen many people experience this feeling.

The other good reason, since you asked for 2, is the one you quoted in your previous message and said that "there is simply no valid reason" lol. Like it or not, the paint has always been a cause of rivalry, hostility, fights, jealousy, and disagreements about who deserves it and who doesn't. Parkour is not eSports, there is no one clear definition of a winner that everyone can agree on.

[Helios 722]

On 1/27/2024 at 2:38 AM, SwiftSmoky said:

If playing a game feels like a job to you, you're doing it wrong. (Unless you're actually getting paid real money.)

Which brings me to one reason to remove the paint, it makes people feel like making club videos is a job. Gotta keep up with the required upload rate, gotta keep making videos even when you don't feel like it, gotta give up any desires of what you want your videos to be like if those desires contradict some requirements (like you can't make videos that take too long to produce, so bye bye to the more time-consuming tricks or to videos beyond a certain duration or amount of tricks). I've seen many people experience this feeling.

The other good reason, since you asked for 2, is the one you quoted in your previous message and said that "there is simply no valid reason" lol. Like it or not, the paint has always been a cause of rivalry, hostility, fights, jealousy, and disagreements about who deserves it and who doesn't. Parkour is not eSports, there is no one clear definition of a winner that everyone can agree on.

Alright let me provide my side of reasoning now. 

1)  I understand your point here, so basically what you say is most clubs produce low quality easy tricks just to keep up with the production rate set by Tanki. And they don't take the time to do longer and better stunts anymore. So you feel they do not deserve it for the low efforts put in.

Now let me ask you this, if you are someone who wants to do the high quality time consuming setups and stunts also don't care or wants special status and special paints, why don't you make your own club of maybe 5-10 people not get the status and simply produce what you want without any deadlines etc. ? By this you stay out of the official parkour clubs and your so called "distractions" aren't dealt with. Like this you have complete freedom to do whatever you want.  
It is really difficult to change what other people want, the best thing is to stay out of it if you do not like something.

2) All the things you quoted below like rivalry, hostility, fights, jealousy, and disagreements will happen if it is meant to happen, whether there is a paint or not, there will always be negative people, people who compare and who trash talk. We can not change that, but you can choose to stay away from them or totally ignore it and continue doing what you want which is getting together a group of passionate parkourist and making what you love.
If you really are willing to give an ear to these trash talkers or unprofessional players and take their opinion personally, it will just ruin yourself.

Just as a closing statement I wanna add: (now don't take this personally its just what I feel from you)
You wished you maybe had these paints and got more recognition, but maybe you have no time or people who wanna spend long hours for some tricks, hence since you do not have them or not have the time to grind for it, you want them removed from everyone ? Which would not be fair for the people who already have them.

The best way to avoid distractions and critics is to close your eyes from them and do what you love and not change them or the system. Because I am sure just because 1 or few players want them removed Tanki will not do it.

Edited January 27, 2024 by PopSmoke

[SwiftSmoky 8,445]

On 1/27/2024 at 5:27 PM, PopSmoke said:

1)  I understand your point here, so basically what you say is most clubs produce low quality easy tricks just to keep up with the production rate set by Tanki. And they don't take the time to do longer and better stunts anymore. So you feel they do not deserve it for the low efforts put in.

No, it's not about deserving. I'm not upset with anyone getting the paint, I'm sorry for what it costs them. It's about people giving up some of their preferences and satisfaction in order to pursue the paint, and taking on pressure from the deadlines.

On 1/27/2024 at 5:27 PM, PopSmoke said:

2) All the things you quoted below like rivalry, hostility, fights, jealousy, and disagreements will happen if it is meant to happen, whether there is a paint or not, there will always be negative people, people who compare and who trash talk. We can not change that, but you can choose to stay away from them or totally ignore it and continue doing what you want which is getting together a group of passionate parkourist and making what you love.

We can't eliminate it, but we can reduce it significantly, rather than continuing to contribute to it. I've seen over and over how the paint has always been a huge trigger for these things, and it escalates existing conflicts, draws more people into them, makes them much worse and creates long term problems between some of the people involved. If you remove that, it won't eliminate all the problems, but it sure will prevent some big ones.

On 1/27/2024 at 5:27 PM, PopSmoke said:

Just as a closing statement I wanna add: (now don't take this personally its just what I feel from you)
You wished you maybe had these paints and got more recognition, but maybe you have no time or people who wanna spend long hours for some tricks, hence since you do not have them or not have the time to grind for it, you want them removed from everyone ? Which would not be fair for the people who already have them.

I love this part for 2 reasons. First of all, I like your honesty and that you didn't leave this important bit of information out of the discussion, understanding each other's motivations is very useful. Second, I find it funny that this is the impression you got, you'll see why when I answer your question:

On 1/27/2024 at 5:27 PM, PopSmoke said:

Now let me ask you this, if you are someone who wants to do the high quality time consuming setups and stunts also don't care or wants special status and special paints, why don't you make your own club of maybe 5-10 people not get the status and simply produce what you want without any deadlines etc. ? Like this you have complete freedom to do whatever you want.

I did exactly that! Except my club was much bigger than 5-10 people (see our members list). I'm the leader of the parkour club FnF (Fight & Flight), which is now closed, but was active for 4 years of great success. We didn't care about the paint, we didn't care when someone else got it, and we got plenty of recognition without it. In fact, we had so much recognition that people protested in Tanki's vlog comments and livestream chats, saying FnF is the best and should get Phoenix. We stuck to our values, and had the honor of being chosen by the community rather than by one person that decides who becomes Official, that's a greater honor than any Official club ever had. And then we actually became Official and got the Phoenix paint, which we never used in our videos.

So I had (and still have) plenty of recognition from those who were around back then to see my contribution to the parkour community (which includes things outside of FnF too, and fun fact, I was the first parkour admin). So I have no reason to be jealous of anyone else having the paint, I only want to take it away because I see how much damage it kept doing to the community. I'm all for giving parkourists as many good things as possible, but the paint is more of a curse in disguise.

[Helios 722]

On 1/27/2024 at 1:58 PM, SwiftSmoky said:

I only want to take it away because I see how much damage it kept doing to the community. I'm all for giving parkourists as many good things as possible, but the paint is more of a curse in disguise.

Could you elaborate on "damage" with more specificity ? Cuz I still feel it's like saying fire is a curse in disguise, well yes it has caused death and destruction to some people, but also have helped the people who know how to control it properly.

Or like saying money is bad since it brings division among people and hate.

 

On 1/27/2024 at 1:58 PM, SwiftSmoky said:

I'm the leader of the parkour club FnF (Fight & Flight), which is now closed, but was active for 4 years of great success.

That is great, I have heard about this club, did not know you were the leader of it. Glad to meet you! Could you tell me the reason why its not active now ? Also times change and I firmly believe in adapting with changes whether we like it not.

And just a little about me, I am fairly new to parkour community and competitive parkour in general, I have only recently (1 week) applied and joined as a candidate to a club.
If you ask me why I joined parkour my answer is simple, I have been playing this game for 10 years, I have always played MM or maybe a little bit of parkour fights. So I wanted to learn and do something new and not feel bored of this game.

I have seen MoP paints, phoenix and other parkour paints and wished I had them, I could lie to myself and others saying its 100% love for parkour but actually it would be a 65% love for parkour 35% want for paints and prestige. I am a person who enjoys attending parkour sessions just as much as I enjoy reaping the rewards from them. Since I am new I do not know much techniques or methods yet but have gladly spent about 2-3 hours each day for the past week learning them from members of the club or friends. What gives me the motivation ? Maybe it's my wish to own some parkour paints one day or maybe I don't wanna be bored of doing MM all day long. But even if its my wish for parkour paint, it has led to join a club, spend time learning some basics and doing tricks with my friends which is what matters.

So I will end my side of this reasoning by saying, I like parkour paints not because of their design or anything but on the terms their given and to whom they are given to. And if I were to vote on "Do you want parkour paints to be removed" I would vote NO. Again I can understand your perspective since you are more experienced in this parkour community and are a leader of a club. Maybe in the future (2-3 years if this games even lasts that long)  I "might" have have a same opinion as you, but not anytime soon. 

 

Edited January 28, 2024 by PopSmoke

[Adab 2,896]

On 1/26/2024 at 2:05 AM, SwiftSmoky said:

Yes! I thought for a long time that removing the Official status and paints is a good idea.

No more distraction, no disagreements about who's Official and about requirements, no competitive rivalry, no suspicion of corruption, and yeah no paint diggers.

Remember when TFP and FnF (and their fans) started arguing about who's better? If I recall correctly, it started when TFP got Phoenix and some players said that FnF is more deserving of a paint than TFP. The first thing Phoenix paint did to the parkour community was create lots of fights and conflicts between people and clubs, and it kept doing this pretty consistently since then.

Okay, may I know what exactly you are suggesting? 1) Make the Phoenix, Aero, etc. paints unobtainable to everyone, or 2) Make the Phoenix, Aero, etc. paints unobtainable to everyone except the Parkour Clubs who got them first (such Parkour Clubs should keep them forever)?

[Helios 722]

On 1/28/2024 at 11:20 AM, Adab said:

Okay, may I know what exactly you are suggesting? 1) Make the Phoenix, Aero, etc. paints unobtainable to everyone, or 2) Make the Phoenix, Aero, etc. paints unobtainable to everyone except the Parkour Clubs who got them first (such Parkour Clubs should keep them forever)?

I feel like the 1500 supplies / 200k crystals are a relic of the past.

In current parkouring  players spent a lot of hours maybe even 4-5 hours at a time trying out new tricks and perfecting them. Also in the present-day economy where defender drone or trickster drone using up to 5 supplies at a time, they exhaust around 2500-4000 or even more in those 2-3 hours of parkouring.

Also note that parkour players are MM players too, they would need supplies or crystals to upgrade gear and use in MM. Hence 1500 supplies as the support is pretty less imo. Also by the time you are done making enough tricks for a 1 minute video you blow around 6k or more which in return you only get 1500 as support. 
I would put the amount 3000-5000 or 400K crystals a as a valid number.  

So I would request the Parkour Manager or whoever is responsible to maybe convince the developers. 
This is only fair to the parkour community since we are here to provide entertainment to the Tankers as well as enjoy it ourself.

@Adabwould you please comment on this suggestion I made ? Thanks

 

[I_Lauv_You 221]

On 1/28/2024 at 2:20 PM, Adab said:

Okay, may I know what exactly you are suggesting? 1) Make the Phoenix, Aero, etc. paints unobtainable to everyone, or 2) Make the Phoenix, Aero, etc. paints unobtainable to everyone except the Parkour Clubs who got them first (such Parkour Clubs should keep them forever)?

I feel like this whole entire conversation about everything  in terms of who deserves what or what should of could of would of happened type topics are of the past even as you said @Adab that these argumentative statements being made are from previous "rule" setting in a way. But at the same time it's very difficult to look at the current scene at hand cause it's a different era and there just isn't nearly as much activity/quality/care  as in previous times which ultimately changes the flow of which way we should go as a community.
There were many deserving clubs in previous times which deserved support due to the quality they produced which honestly these rules currently would of still thrived back then because it'd lead to competition between who is consistently the better club which people did that by default comparing amongst others to try to be the best and this would only lead more for it and in this day and age it's not a bad thing to revert to what should of been in first place with 1 official per locale cause there is truly no need for the "official status" to be gatekept and have loss of value either due to the idea of "once we get it , we become dead club" or now currently "we are PL/RU locale , nobody else here" .
Ultimately overall it pushes the idea that there should consistently always have a few 3 clubs that have official that SHOULD be the best of the locale which a lot of people complain now but it'll push over into people either striving to become the best and enduring without the reward aka (people who enjoy parkour and will get what they deserve in the end). It's just the fact that people don't like change especially when it may take something from them especially if they may not get it again if they are undeserving  I feel people should of experienced old parkour days with real struggles with no such RaS as current day, no club spectator, no supply support, no light weight, no speed drones lol do people even remember when paints and protections weren't separate?..... very much has changed for the better and so many don't understand how well they have it these days am i right @SwiftSmoky@Adab? Hi btw hope you doing well my good sirs don't mind me jumping in the ultimate show down of Parkour Managers 

[SwiftSmoky 8,445]

On 1/29/2024 at 12:20 AM, Adab said:

Okay, may I know what exactly you are suggesting? 1) Make the Phoenix, Aero, etc. paints unobtainable to everyone, or 2) Make the Phoenix, Aero, etc. paints unobtainable to everyone except the Parkour Clubs who got them first (such Parkour Clubs should keep them forever)?

I think that option 1 is better.

[SwiftSmoky 8,445]

On 1/29/2024 at 4:35 AM, I_Lauv_You said:

very much has changed for the better and so many don't understand how well they have it these days am i right @SwiftSmoky@Adab? Hi btw hope you doing well my good sirs don't mind me jumping in the ultimate show down of Parkour Managers 

Hi! Good to see you  and yeah a lot changed since then.

On 1/28/2024 at 5:03 AM, PopSmoke said:

That is great, I have heard about this club, did not know you were the leader of it. Glad to meet you! Could you tell me the reason why its not active now ?

FnF closed because the leaders wanted to leave, and without someone willing to take leadership and able to uphold our high standards, we decided it's better to close the club. Those were big shoes to fill, because in FnF the leaders came up with the tricks, and our standard was to include only creative tricks that have never been done before by anyone, and occasionally a few that had a special twist that made them interesting and new enough.

(I'm not sure how well this standard was kept by our last leader, but I'm still impressed by what he managed to do without the old leaders, being a great parkourist is one thing, inventing tricks is a whole different skill.)

 

I'll reply to more of what you wrote when I have the time

[Adab 2,896]

On 1/25/2024 at 3:24 AM, PopSmoke said:

I feel like the 1500 supplies / 200k crystals are a relic of the past.

In current parkouring  players spent a lot of hours maybe even 4-5 hours at a time trying out new tricks and perfecting them. Also in the present-day economy where defender drone or trickster drone using up to 5 supplies at a time, they exhaust around 2500-4000 or even more in those 2-3 hours of parkouring.

Also note that parkour players are MM players too, they would need supplies or crystals to upgrade gear and use in MM. Hence 1500 supplies as the support is pretty less imo. Also by the time you are done making enough tricks for a 1 minute video you blow around 6k or more which in return you only get 1500 as support. 
I would put the amount 3000-5000 or 400K crystals a as a valid number.  

So I would request the Parkour Manager or whoever is responsible to maybe convince the developers. 
This is only fair to the parkour community since we are here to provide entertainment to the Tankers as well as enjoy it ourself.
 

I understand and I honestly think 1500 supplies and 200k Crystals are a bit less. I wanted the Parkour Club Support Program to give 1M Crystals (yes, 1 million Crystals!) per video, but our Community Manager did not agree to that (probably because 1 million Crystals per video is too much and quite frankly, insane) and later it was decided to give 200k Crystals. This is the first time ever that Parkour Clubs in the EN locale are getting Crystals, so it won't be possible to increase the amount of Crystals right now. If Parkour Clubs perform better than their current performance with what they are getting now, then maybe I will be able to ask our Community Manager to increase the amount of supplies and Crystals given. Also, Support Resources are not given to upgrade gear and use in MM, it is recommended to use them wisely only on things that contribute positively to their Parkour Club and the Parkour community, such as buying supplies, upgrading and buying equipment helpful for Parkour, etc. since they are given to the Members of Supported Parkour Clubs for the work and help they did for their Parkour Club and the Parkour community. Let's not forget that what Parkour Clubs are getting now in the EN locale is a lot compared to what they were getting in the past (for example, before I became a Parkour Clubs Manager, there was a buffer system and parkour clubs in the EN locale were not even getting supplies for every single video). So now, let's try to be fully happy with what we are getting and try to show everyone that we deserve to get even more 
 

On 1/29/2024 at 2:08 AM, PopSmoke said:

I feel like the 1500 supplies / 200k crystals are a relic of the past.

In current parkouring  players spent a lot of hours maybe even 4-5 hours at a time trying out new tricks and perfecting them. Also in the present-day economy where defender drone or trickster drone using up to 5 supplies at a time, they exhaust around 2500-4000 or even more in those 2-3 hours of parkouring.

Also note that parkour players are MM players too, they would need supplies or crystals to upgrade gear and use in MM. Hence 1500 supplies as the support is pretty less imo. Also by the time you are done making enough tricks for a 1 minute video you blow around 6k or more which in return you only get 1500 as support. 
I would put the amount 3000-5000 or 400K crystals a as a valid number.  

So I would request the Parkour Manager or whoever is responsible to maybe convince the developers. 
This is only fair to the parkour community since we are here to provide entertainment to the Tankers as well as enjoy it ourself.

@Adabwould you please comment on this suggestion I made ? Thanks

 

Sorry, I needed more time to give a proper comment on this suggestion that you made 

[Adab 2,896]

On 1/29/2024 at 10:46 PM, SwiftSmoky said:

I think that option 1 is better.

Okay, thanks for clarifying. I spent the past few days seriously thinking (I mean it) and calculating the potential risks of making the Phoenix, Aero, etc. paints unobtainable to everyone, and the following question kept coming into my head: Why wasn't such a move taken before? For example, when you were managing parkour clubs. So would you mind answering that question for me? 

[Adab 2,896]

On 1/31/2024 at 6:33 PM, HorizonZeroDawn said:

It was better before, everything is now for free. All you need in contact in forum im i right? I rather parkour for fun without having inner motivation that i want some paint to show off how better i am than others.

I would argue that it is better now, and everything is not for free now. I am not fully sure what you mean by "All you need in contact in forum im i right?", but I think the answer to it is a no. By the way, I respect that you rather parkour for fun without having that inner motivation, keep it up 

[Adab 2,896]

On 1/29/2024 at 5:35 AM, I_Lauv_You said:

I feel like this whole entire conversation about everything  in terms of who deserves what or what should of could of would of happened type topics are of the past even as you said @Adab that these argumentative statements being made are from previous "rule" setting in a way. But at the same time it's very difficult to look at the current scene at hand cause it's a different era and there just isn't nearly as much activity/quality/care  as in previous times which ultimately changes the flow of which way we should go as a community.
There were many deserving clubs in previous times which deserved support due to the quality they produced which honestly these rules currently would of still thrived back then because it'd lead to competition between who is consistently the better club which people did that by default comparing amongst others to try to be the best and this would only lead more for it and in this day and age it's not a bad thing to revert to what should of been in first place with 1 official per locale cause there is truly no need for the "official status" to be gatekept and have loss of value either due to the idea of "once we get it , we become dead club" or now currently "we are PL/RU locale , nobody else here" .
Ultimately overall it pushes the idea that there should consistently always have a few 3 clubs that have official that SHOULD be the best of the locale which a lot of people complain now but it'll push over into people either striving to become the best and enduring without the reward aka (people who enjoy parkour and will get what they deserve in the end). It's just the fact that people don't like change especially when it may take something from them especially if they may not get it again if they are undeserving  I feel people should of experienced old parkour days with real struggles with no such RaS as current day, no club spectator, no supply support, no light weight, no speed drones lol do people even remember when paints and protections weren't separate?..... very much has changed for the better and so many don't understand how well they have it these days am i right @SwiftSmoky@Adab? Hi btw hope you doing well my good sirs don't mind me jumping in the ultimate show down of Parkour Managers 

Hi hi, I think I am doing well, and I hope you are doing well, thank you for sharing your thoughts. I think you are right that so many people don't understand how well they have it these days. I think that we are currently going in the right direction, and I think we will see more activity, quality, and care than in previous times with our current system. We should embrace the recent changes and work on growing the Parkour community for good

By the way, this is not an ultimate showdown of Parkour Managers