Do you believe in evolution?

[Fen-Harel 1,176]

Based on the few bones we have of our ancestors, there is no reason to believe that we evolved. It was common practice, for example, among many Native American tribes, to mold the shape of their children's heads over time. Does that mean they evolved? I think not. However, if one of their skulls were found without this knowledge, that conclusion could feasibly be reached. There is a lot of guesswork with bones, since animals were domesticated by humans and thus, in death, the bones would be in the same location. In other words, all the evidence for human evolution is rather shabby guesswork and artist's impressions. Hardly scientific. If it takes millions of years for evolution to occur, then in 4.54 billion years, 4,540 evolutionary forms for any one animal should be present. How many of those forms are assumed to have contained bone matter, or any other hard matter that would have fossilized? I find it interesting that out of all those forms, we have no reliable fossils for evolutionary links. Any fossils we may have are again, guesswork. Out of curiosity, what is your explanation for the Cambrian explosion?

We don't have few bones, we have a large library of fossils showing we and other animals have evolved. Again bones aren't the only evidence there is. Native Americans are humans, their bones would be dated as to young to be any ancestor of a modern human. Guess work? DNA evidence, 2 ape chromosomes fusing into one is shown. There is simply no dispute we are related to other animal forms. No, it does not mean there should be 4,540 evolutionary forms. Not all species evolve in the same way and same time period. The transitional forms in my example would happen in those 1 million years. The transitional form as I said is hard to find since the small changes need to accumulate into those 1 million years (in my example). Right now there's about 8 million known species I think, and there's still a massive amount of ones we haven't discovered. We have many reliable fossils and links. I think I posted a link to the list in my first post.

The Cambrian explosion has happened about 540 million years ago and the process was about 60 millions years long. Now in that time more complex and multicellular started to appear. I don't know what scientific cause there was, and if you would like better information that what I can give I recommend you to maybe visit a biologist in an university. What I think happened is after the cells colonized it was shown that it's much more beneficial, and then cells started to form the multicellular organism to find that it's even more beneficial for survival.

 

_______________

 

I think this topic should be expanded a bit. We have discussed evolution so far, but I would like to see the thoughts of the opposing side, and their solutions based on the evidence presented. Does anyone else share this idea? I think it would be interesting hearing a bit more views other than just talking about my own.

[IC-Ironclad-IC 12]

The problem is, we can't see what was ''between'' the evolves. take this for example.

 

 

 

Here we have proof of it going through all the stages BUT in evolution u just take these pics and guess that ''they evolved'' because they look alike or whatever, with no proof of them being connected

 

 

 

 

[Fen-Harel 1,176]

The problem is, we can't see what was ''between'' the evolves. take this for example.

 

 

 

Here we have proof of it going through all the stages BUT in evolution u just take these pics and guess that ''they evolved'' because they look alike or whatever, with no proof of them being connected

 

 

 

 

...what? That's the transition from a tadpole (I think that's what it's called, again my lack of English knowledge) to a frog. And you can take a few put them in your house and see how they grow into a frog, it's completely observable.

 

And it's not evolution, I really recommend you to take a class about evolution or at least watch the video GoldRock linked.

[IC-Ironclad-IC 12]

IK its not evolution, i used it for an example :mellow:

[Fen-Harel 1,176]

IK its not evolution, i used it for an example :mellow:

An example of what? If it's about "missing links" it's a very bad one. Since you can observe your example in your own house.

[IC-Ironclad-IC 12]

lol

[r_Zesx0 39]

All those posts make me say only one thing - tl;dr

[UNDESIRABLE 147]

I am currently taking Biology in school and let me tell you that evolution is real. There is so much evidence to support it. 

 

That's why in school, your teachers teach about evolution instead of the other way around because there is strong concrete evidence for it. 

[JonathanBernatowicz 119]

I am currently taking Biology in school and let me tell you that evolution is real. There is so much evidence to support it. 

 

That's why in school, your teachers teach about evolution instead of the other way around because there is strong concrete evidence for it. 

I'm currently learning Biology, and Physical Science in school too and let me tell you that Creation is real. There is evidence to support it too.

 

Wrong. In fact, it takes more faith to believe typical Evolution than what I believe.

Edited December 6, 2013 by JonathanBernatowicz

[Fen-Harel 1,176]

I'm currently learning Biology, and Physical Science in school too and let me tell you that Creation is real. There is evidence to support it too.

What evidence would that be?

 

 

Wrong. In fact, it takes more faith to believe typical Evolution than what I believe.

Faith as in belief without evidence? Despite the evidence that has been clearly presented even in this forum thread?

[DrSaint 176]

I'm currently learning Biology, and Physical Science in school too and let me tell you that Creation is real. There is evidence to support it too.

 

Wrong. In fact, it takes more faith to believe typical Evolution than what I believe.

Laugh my _55 off ... :D

 

Show me at least ONE undeniable piece of evidence to prove creationism.

:)

Edited December 6, 2013 by DrSaint

[kingeoin14 30]

What evidence would that be?

 

 

Faith as in belief without evidence? Despite the evidence that has been clearly presented even in this forum thread?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjxZ6MrBl9E

[IC-Ironclad-IC 12]

i haven't seen one concrete evidence here either. just a bunch of links to alot of boring text and ''much evidence'' posts

[GoldRock2 290]

^Go ahead and click the links, then, and read the 'boring text walls' in this topic or whatever.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjxZ6MrBl9E

Hmm, he makes a good point.

[Fen-Harel 1,176]

i haven't seen one concrete evidence here either. just a bunch of links to alot of boring text and ''much evidence'' posts

If you see all that I've posted as "boring text", links, and much evidence posts I'm done with you.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjxZ6MrBl9E

Gotta love Dawkins  :D  I've watched a lot of his debates and looking forward to reading one of his books (probably "The god delusion" first). An amazing scientist and speaker.

[GoldRock2 290]

Gotta love Dawkins :D I've watched a lot of his debates and looking forward to reading one of his books (probably "The god delusion" first). An amazing scientist and speaker.

I've been wanting to read that particular book for some time now ^_^

[hirl123 1]

I just found out how we looked like earlier

 

this is our ancestor, he shares so much DNA  we must have evolved from him wow :o

OMG i was not a banana peel screw evolution the fairytale. I wonder if Evolution will marry a prince and the this stupid fairytale will be over

[JonathanBernatowicz 119]

Faith as in belief without evidence? Despite the evidence that has been clearly presented even in this forum thread?

Well, let's look at water and it's amazing system, and how it links to the earth and sun. First the definition of Hydrosphere, then on with the discussion.

Hydrosphere---The sum of all water on a planet

"People can live for two weeks or more with no food, but without water, we would die in about three days. That's why statesman and scientist Benjamin Franklin said, "When the well's dry, we know the worth of water."

 

Water exists as a liquid (what we usually call "water"), gas (which we often call "water vapor"), and solid (known as "ice"). Did you know that of all planets in our solar system, earth is the only one that has a large quantity of water in its liquid form? It's one of the main reasons life cannot exist on any of the other planets but does exist here on earth. Liquid water, a necessity for life, can only be found in abundance on one planet: earth. Does that mean there isn't water on the other planets? No. It means that on the other planets, nearly all the water is either a gas or a solid, not a liquid. Why is the earth so special? There are many reasons.

 

First of all, water is only a liquid in a certain temperature range (above 0 degrees Celsius [32 degrees Fahrenheit] and below 100 degrees Celsius [212 degrees Fahrenheit]). Thus, in order for a planet to have liquid water, there must be regions within that temperature range. Well, the vast majority of the earth is in that temperature range, so the vast majority of the water on the earth is liquid! What controls the temperature on a planet? There are two important factors: the distance from the sun and the atmosphere. The greenhouse effect caused by earth's unique atmosphere keeps the average temperature of the earth around 50 degrees Fahrenheit. If the mixture of gases n the atmosphere were to change, the temperature would go up or down, potentially out of the range necessary for water to exist as a liquid. In addition, scientists have estimated that if earth were only a few percent closer to the sun than it is now, it would be so warm that the vast majority of its water would exist as a gas. Similarly, if the earth were just a few percent farther away from the sun, most of its water would exist as ice. Thus, earth has just the right amount mixture of gases in its atmosphere, and it is just the right distance from the sun to ensure the vast majority of its water is liquid. No other planet we know of is like this!

 

Earth's temperature is unique because of its atmosphere and its distance from the sun. That's an awful lot of coincidences, don't you think? If earth were just a little closer to or farther from the sun, water would not be a liquid on earth, and as a result, life could not exist. If the earth's atmosphere were slightly different in composition, we would have the same result. If water didn't participate in hydrogen bonding, it would not be liquid at earth's room temperature. In the end, it seems that water, earth, and life were all designed for each other, doesn't it? That should not surprise any scientist who believes in a supreme Designer, but it should certainly astound any scientist who does not!”

[IC-Ironclad-IC 12]

Also a large part of evolution is made up of chance. U have to get really lucky to to get all the things perfect, so much small details, so everything is made up by chance/luck?

[Fen-Harel 1,176]

Well, let's look at water and it's amazing system, and how it links to the earth and sun. First the definition of Hydrosphere, then on with the discussion.

Hydrosphere---The sum of all water on a planet

"People can live for two weeks or more with no food, but without water, we would die in about three days. That's why statesman and scientist Benjamin Franklin said, "When the well's dry, we know the worth of water."

 

Water exists as a liquid (what we usually call "water"), gas (which we often call "water vapor"), and solid (known as "ice"). Did you know that of all planets in our solar system, earth is the only one that has a large quantity of water in its liquid form? It's one of the main reasons life cannot exist on any of the other planets but does exist here on earth. Liquid water, a necessity for life, can only be found in abundance on one planet: earth. Does that mean there isn't water on the other planets? No. It means that on the other planets, nearly all the water is either a gas or a solid, not a liquid. Why is the earth so special? There are many reasons.

 

First of all, water is only a liquid in a certain temperature range (above 0 degrees Celsius [32 degrees Fahrenheit] and below 100 degrees Celsius [212 degrees Fahrenheit]). Thus, in order for a planet to have liquid water, there must be regions within that temperature range. Well, the vast majority of the earth is in that temperature range, so the vast majority of the water on the earth is liquid! What controls the temperature on a planet? There are two important factors: the distance from the sun and the atmosphere. The greenhouse effect caused by earth's unique atmosphere keeps the average temperature of the earth around 50 degrees Fahrenheit. If the mixture of gases n the atmosphere were to change, the temperature would go up or down, potentially out of the range necessary for water to exist as a liquid. In addition, scientists have estimated that if earth were only a few percent closer to the sun than it is now, it would be so warm that the vast majority of its water would exist as a gas. Similarly, if the earth were just a few percent farther away from the sun, most of its water would exist as ice. Thus, earth has just the right amount mixture of gases in its atmosphere, and it is just the right distance from the sun to ensure the vast majority of its water is liquid. No other planet we know of is like this!

 

Earth's temperature is unique because of its atmosphere and its distance from the sun. That's an awful lot of coincidences, don't you think? If earth were just a little closer to or farther from the sun, water would not be a liquid on earth, and as a result, life could not exist. If the earth's atmosphere were slightly different in composition, we would have the same result. If water didn't participate in hydrogen bonding, it would not be liquid at earth's room temperature. In the end, it seems that water, earth, and life were all designed for each other, doesn't it? That should not surprise any scientist who believes in a supreme Designer, but it should certainly astound any scientist who does not!”

No. Water is not only found on Earth. There are moons even in our solar system that contain water. Comets are also made of water. Next we know that the most common element is Hydrogen, and third most common is Oxygen. So it's reasonable that the most common molecule is H2O or water. If I remember correctly Ceres, a moon in our solar system has frozen water. Here are some more examples: http://astrointerest.com/presence-of-water-on-other-planets-in-the-solar-system/#.UqJUzLTIdBA

 

Next you claim that the Earth is in the Goldilocks zone (which is correct) and that it is too unlikely to happen by chance and it's specially made for us. This is wrong, as we have looked into the universe, far beyond our own solar system. We have launched the  Kepler telescope into space and it has shown us what our galaxy really looks like. It has found thousands of planets, hundreds of Earth sized and in the Goldilocks zone. The telescope only sees a small portion of the sky, and has shown us that there are millions of galaxies. And this is just in our neighborhood.

 

So it is no wonder that one one of such planets life originated.

[Fen-Harel 1,176]

Also a large part of evolution is made up of chance. U have to get really lucky to to get all the things perfect, so much small details, so everything is made up by chance/luck?

No. It is not chance. Evolution works through natural selection, a non random process. Everything strives towards survival and adapts in order to accomplish it's goal.

[GoldRock2 290]

That's an awful lot of coincidences, don't you think? If earth were just a little closer to or farther from the sun, water would not be a liquid on earth, and as a result, life could not exist. If the earth's atmosphere were slightly different in composition, we would have the same result. If water didn't participate in hydrogen bonding, it would not be liquid at earth's room temperature. In the end, it seems that water, earth, and life were all designed for each other, doesn't it? That should not surprise any scientist who believes in a supreme Designer, but it should certainly astound any scientist who does not!”[/center]

Think about it this way. The universe is infinitely large. Therefore, if there is a chance of the right conditions occurring in order for life to form on a planet, however small, it is bound to happen somewhere in the universe. In this way, it is actually practically certain that at least one planet in the universe would have the right conditions for life.

 

For example: let's say the chance of having the conditions we have is 0.00000000001. And as far as we know, there is literally an infinite amount of planets in our universe. What is 0.00000000001 (the probability) multiplied by infinity (the sample size)? The answer is infinity, and so the overall probability of such conditions occurring is practically certain - it's not just luck after all that us guys rely on ^_^

[JonathanBernatowicz 119]

No. Water is not only found on Earth. There are moons even in our solar system that contain water. Comets are also made of water. Next we know that the most common element is Hydrogen, and third most common is Oxygen. So it's reasonable that the most common molecule is H2O or water. If I remember correctly Ceres, a moon in our solar system has frozen water. Here are some more examples: http://astrointerest.com/presence-of-water-on-other-planets-in-the-solar-system/#.UqJUzLTIdBA

I never said that water is not only found on earth. I said that it is the only planet which has abundance in liquid water. So, your statements are incorrect here as you clearly misunderstood me when it was obvious as to what I was saying, as I was specific in each sentence.

 

Next you claim that the Earth is in the Goldilocks zone (which is correct) and that it is too unlikely to happen by chance and it's specially made for us. This is wrong, as we have looked into the universe, far beyond our own solar system. We have launched the  Kepler telescope into space and it has shown us what our galaxy really looks like. It has found thousands of planets, hundreds of Earth sized and in the Goldilocks zone. The telescope only sees a small portion of the sky, and has shown us that there are millions of galaxies. And this is just in our neighborhood.

 

So it is no wonder that one one of such planets life originated.

Yes, but none of these planets have an abundance in liquid water to keep us alive, so it is specially made for us.

 

Think about it this way. The universe is infinitely large. Therefore, if there is a chance of the right conditions occurring in order for life to form on a planet, however small, it is bound to happen somewhere in the universe. In this way, it is actually practically certain that at least one planet in the universe would have the right conditions for life.

 

For example: let's say the chance of having the conditions we have is 0.00000000001. And as far as we know, there is literally an infinite amount of planets in our universe. What is 0.00000000001 (the probability) multiplied by infinity (the sample size)? The answer is infinity, and so the overall probability of such conditions occurring is practically certain - it's not just luck after all that us guys rely on ^_^

Your logic is flawed and extremely confusing. Maybe I'm not fully comprehending it. In this first paragraph, I see that it seems you're saying, "When there was a big bang, one planet in those bunch of planets was bound to have the right conditions for living life, AND the microscopic organisms (which is yet to point out how that came from a big bang, but let's move on) just happened to appear on that planet, and none other. And you seem to be saying that out of those "infinity" universes and planets, it's bound to have one of them with perfect conditions, perfect creativity, perfect way our body is structured, perfect distance from the sun, perfect way that the ozone layer is there to protect us from ultraviolet rays, perfect hydrologic cycle that keeps water flowing from (in basics) the ocean, to the sky, to the ground, to our mouths, out our bodies, back through the soil, and the process contiunes without flaws, perfect way the plants are set up, perfect everything to keep us living. And you're telling me that there's bound to be one planet that just happens to have a living-organism pop out of this big bang, and roam on this perfect planet, instead of any other planets? If I'm wrong about what you've said, with the probability that one of those plnetiful planets is bound to be PERFECT and a living organism appears out of nowhere, correct me as you wish.

Edited December 6, 2013 by JonathanBernatowicz

[Fen-Harel 1,176]

I never said that water is not only found on earth. I said that it is the only planet which has abundance in liquid water. So, your statements are incorrect here as you clearly misunderstood me when it was obvious as to what I was saying, as I was specific in each sentence.

 

Yes, but none of these planets have an abundance in liquid water to keep us alive, so it is specially made for us.

Water is the most common molecular composition in the universe, and there are hundreds of planets in the habitable zone where water would be liquid. My point was that chances are there are many such planets and we just happen to be on one of those.

 

Your logic is flawed and extremely confusing. Maybe I'm not fully comprehending it. In this first paragraph, I see that it seems you're saying, "When there was a big bang, one planet in those bunch of planets was bound to have the right conditions for living life, AND the microscopic organisms (which is yet to point out how that came from a big bang, but let's move on) just happened to appear on that planet, and none other. And you seem to be saying that out of those "infinity" universes and planets, it's bound to have one of them with perfect conditions, perfect creativity, perfect way our body is structured, perfect distance from the sun, perfect way that the ozone layer is there to protect us from ultraviolet rays, perfect hydrologic cycle that keeps water flowing from (in basics) the ocean, to the sky, to the ground, to our mouths, out our bodies, back through the soil, and the process contiunes without flaws, perfect way the plants are set up, perfect everything to keep us living. And you're telling me that there's bound to be one planet that just happens to have a living-organism pop out of this big bang, and roam on this perfect planet, instead of any other planets? If I'm wrong about what you've said, with the probability that one of those plnetiful planets is bound to be PERFECT and a living organism appears out of nowhere, correct me as you wish.

GoldRock didn't mention the Big Bang. He said that the universe is infinite. And have you ever thought that we have adapted to Earth and not the other way around? It's not that it was Earth that was made for us, it is us who have adapted to it's conditions.

[JonathanBernatowicz 119]

Water is the most common molecular composition in the universe, and there are hundreds of planets in the habitable zone where water would be liquid. 

Not that any scientists have discovered. Not saying there isn't any, just saying it hasn't been proven thus making your statement not true.

 

GoldRock didn't mention the Big Bang. He said that the universe is infinite. And have you ever thought that we have adapted to Earth and not the other way around? It's not that it was Earth that was made for us, it is us who have adapted to it's conditions.

No, he didn't. I was just referrencing to what most scientists believe to be the earth's beginning.  I have thought that, and I believe we have indeed adapted to earth. Obviously. But, I can bring many instances besides the water (and I'd be pleased to, in fact) which makes this earth unsually perfect for humans. It is that earth was made for us, and humans. Look around you. Do you really think that it's a coincidence we "came" (I won't use the big bang, ok?) to this planet with such perfect conditions? We have adapted to it, but how much really? Did we put in the ozone layer? Did we decide the plants would do this, and the water cycle would work lke this? Did we put the planet right where it should be so that anyone could survive here? Did we put the right amount of muscles in our body so that we could get to work and start creating buildings for warmth? We have adapted to it. But the earth and all creatures in it are just too perfectly organized it's undeniable.