Do you believe in evolution?

[Reckoning 178]

 

It's not like religion ever tried to hide the truth from others, except that time they did * cough * burning people for saying that the Earth isn't the center of the universe * cough *...

That time? what is that timeline?

[Psycho 586]

For me i would gather my friends and whatever happens we die together, friends till the end!

[Reckoning 178]

For me i would gather my friends and whatever happens we die together, friends till the end!

Lol wrong topic??

[Alpha.Frost.Delta 4]

communist (rofl)

[GoldRock2 290]

From evolutionary perspective we have to do all we can to survive and draw guidelines from that.

So your point is that science can't answer for morality. Well, the goal of a species is to survive and there are some things that it needs to do; life is preferable to death for a species that dies more than reproduces goes extinct, so those who kill are excluded from the society. Same can be done with stealing, people not taking things from each other reduces violence making the society more stable. This is how all morality is made, religious or otherwise.

That is really not clear enough - if my goal is to survive, should I sacfrifice my own life to save the lives of others (an example)? Again, the argument that less violence is better is a bit too general to be applied to every single situation - what happens when a robber is killed during an escapade? Should the policeman be cast out of society for causing violence, especially if the robber's raid was otherwise peaceful? I think that though science is great at explaining how we came to be, it doesn't offer all the answers, and it should not be seen to do so. Philosophy remains invaluable. Mr. Einstein was right in saying that religion without science is blind, and science without religion is lame, regardless of belief in God or not. The fact that so many different, historically-separated cultures have come up with an idea of a God is at least notable in itself as psychologically important.

 

They will offer answers maybe which will no doubt be of comfort to many. You were careful enough not to suggest those answers were true though. I agree with that to a point. My mother is a Christian and although I toy with her from time to time on the subject of evolution/theism, I stop well short of demolishing her arguments because she is content and comforted by those beliefs.

 

On the point of purpose, as far as I can tell, we don't have a purpose other than to deal with the hand you're dealt.

A well-reasoned reply; I agree with the points you raise in the first paragraph. As for purpose, your view seems interesting - so if you live in a hateful society, you would bring hate to others? Just trying to understand how you meant that :P

 

You do not really understand what you wrote my friend. :)

Oh of course, because all theists are infinitely more intelligent and enlightened than non-believers or 'kafirs'.

 

Also, my geography teacher told me there a lots of articels which would confirm creation are not published, because the scientific world is

all about evolution and the big bang. They're scared that those articels will show the world that this 'big bang theory' is non-sense.

Well, I told my teacher that I did 100 pages for some homework, but I was too scared to bring it in because it would be too good.

 

Sorry, but unless we're able to see such evidence, that is a very weak argument. "There's evidence that creation is absolutely right except I can't show it to you because [insert excuse here]" is not going to convinve me any time soon.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

As for purpose, your view seems interesting - so if you live in a hateful society, you would bring hate to others? Just trying to understand how you meant that :P

The minute I was born, did I have a purpose and who decided that purpose? I'm talking about my raison d'etre, my reason for being here, not how I will interact with society once I'm able. Maybe there is a little confusion by what we all mean by purpose.

[GoldRock2 290]

The minute I was born, did I have a purpose and who decided that purpose? I'm talking about my raison d'etre, my reason for being here, not how I will interact with society once I'm able. Maybe there is a little confusion by what we all mean by purpose.

Mhmm. Purpose could be defined as why we are here, or what we are to do now we are here - that's where the confusion lies. Achilles1233, for example, argues that there is no real purpose as to why we are here. Thanks for clarifying how you meant that; interesting stuff, and well phrased.

[Fen-Harel 1,176]

That is really not clear enough - if my goal is to survive, should I sacfrifice my own life to save the lives of others (an example)? Again, the argument that less violence is better is a bit too general to be applied to every single situation - what happens when a robber is killed during an escapade? Should the policeman be cast out of society for causing violence, especially if the robber's raid was otherwise peaceful? I think that though science is great at explaining how we came to be, it doesn't offer all the answers, and it should not be seen to do so. Philosophy remains invaluable. Mr. Einstein was right in saying that religion without science is blind, and science without religion is lame, regardless of belief in God or not. The fact that so many different, historically-separated cultures have come up with an idea of a God is at least notable in itself as psychologically important.

This is how basic morality happens, there are more than one ways to put the details together, my point was that it's certainly not a god(s) given one.

[Reckoning 178]

Oh of course, because all theists are infinitely more intelligent and enlightened than non-believers or 'kafirs'.

 

Where did you get that idea from? i never alluded to anything like that have i?

In the previous post of yours which i quoted,you talked about chosen people, earth being center of the universe and its being the only place where life could exist and to you its seems that all of these are "selfish" ideas concocted just to make us feel special? how do you came to these conclusion?  do you know what does chosen people or any of the points you made mean?

Pls don't patronize me.

[DanTheKiller1 2,889]

Well,i`m communist

[sam131192 113]

Hmm No purpose of my being here, so why to live?

[SonofDeath 512]

Religious people are people who wish that when they die, there will be something after

 

IT is much easier to believe that when you die to go to heaven and what not, and that all of your loved ones are there waiting for you

 

It is much harder to accept the reality of the situation

 

You die, you die, no more you 

Edited January 16, 2014 by SonofDeath

[sam131192 113]

^ so why to wait for my sad terrible end when I have no purpose to live for. What's your hope?

And your argument is pretty bad. Just because something is easy to believe in, doesn't make it wrong.

 

P.S. just Google last words of famous atheists.

[GoldRock2 290]

This is how basic morality happens, there are more than one ways to put the details together, my point was that it's certainly not a god(s) given one.

OK, fair enough. My own point was that though morality may not be necessarily God-given in any way (in our view at least), religion/philosophy as topics can still offer valuable contributions to the subject of morality as a whole.

 

Where did you get that idea from? i never alluded to anything like that have i?

Well, if saying "You do not really understand what you wrote my friend. :) " isn't alluding to your greater understanding than me of a point I myself raised, then I don't know what is.

 

In the previous post of yours which i quoted,you talked about chosen people, earth being center of the universe and its being the only place where life could exist and to you its seems that all of these are "selfish" ideas concocted just to make us feel special?

Yes, it does.

 

how do you came to these conclusion?

Because human beings are inherently selfish in nature. I have yet to hear of a religion which actually points out that if God exists, maybe we're not God's most important creation, and that all life could be considered equal... but that, of course, would mean swallowing our pride, which wouldn't go down well. "Because surely we must be God's chosen people, and the most important things on Earth!"

 

Not to mention that it is statistically very unlikely that the Earth is the only planet which could ever support life in the entire universe (since the universe is so big and contains so many planets), and that science has shown that actually, we orbit the Sun, and not the other way round... so the Earth cannot possibly be the centre of the universe.

 

do you know what does chosen people or any of the points you made mean?

Pls don't patronize me.

Yes, I do, actually. You see, I'm rather well versed in English, and do happen to know a fair amount about religion. Thank you for the *patronising* question...

 

You also gave no evidence to support the claim made in your first post; hence, your post practically elicited a patronising response.

 

I guess it's good that you've gone a bit further than saying "you don't understand" now... Hopefully, our discussion can become more constructive as it progresses ^_^

Edited January 16, 2014 by GoldRock2

[GoldRock2 290]

^ so why to wait for my sad terrible end when I have no purpose to live for. What's your hope?

And your argument is pretty bad. Just because something is easy to believe in, doesn't make it wrong.

 

P.S. just Google last words of famous atheists.

Actually, the point is that you should stop waiting for your 'sad terrible end', and get on with living life and helping to make the world a better place, rather than living for death and anything which might follow.

 

Though I agree that just because something is easy to believe in, it doesn't make it wrong, I'm not sure how relevant that particular point is, and I actually thought SonofDeath's post provided an excellent argument.

[Fen-Harel 1,176]

OK, fair enough. My own point was that though morality may not be necessarily God-given in any way (in our view at least), religion/philosophy as topics can still offer valuable contributions to the subject of morality as a whole.

Religion is our first attempt of philosophy and to get answers. Naturally it was our worst and we should find better ideas.

 

^ so why to wait for my sad terrible end when I have no purpose to live for. What's your hope?

And your argument is pretty bad. Just because something is easy to believe in, doesn't make it wrong.

 

P.S. just Google last words of famous atheists.

Death makes your life have no hope? Maybe try and make the life you have now better for you and everyone around you. Since we don't have much time we might as well use it to our full potential.

You mean the death bed conversions? The human mind can't accept a proposition of not existing and will go to any idea that might change it.

[Zero-nl 36]

Well, I told my teacher that I did 100 pages for some homework, but I was too scared to bring it in because it would be too good.

 

Sorry, but unless we're able to see such evidence, that is a very weak argument. "There's evidence that creation is absolutely right except I can't show it to you because [insert excuse here]" is not going to convinve me any time soon.

I'm just saying "Why didn't the scientific world publish those articels? What's wrong with them that they aren't allowed to be published. I'm not saying it's proof but I'm just interested in why they are forbidden.

[Reckoning 178]

Well, if saying "You do not really understand what you wrote my friend. :) " isn't alluding to your greater understanding than me of a point I myself raised, then I don't know what is.

 

 

Yes, it does alludes that i have a better understanding of the point that YOU made.

But also i don't make condescending statements.you have taken a specific statement of your fellow player addressed to you alone and generalized it to make it look like i am bashing all atheist  statement:

 

Oh of course, because all theists are infinitely more intelligent and enlightened than non-believers or 'kafirs'.

 

That's uncalled for and its really pathetic to see that you have brought down the argument to such a low level where i have to defend against something which i haven't said.

 

 

Because human beings are inherently selfish in nature. I have yet to hear of a religion which actually points out that if God exists, maybe we're not God's most important creation, and that all life could be considered equal... but that, of course, would mean swallowing our pride, which wouldn't go down well. "Because surely we must be God's chosen people, and the most important things on Earth!"

 

Not to mention that it is statistically very unlikely that the Earth is the only planet which could ever support life in the entire universe (since the universe is so big and contains so many planets), and that science has shown that actually, we orbit the Sun, and not the other way round... so the Earth cannot possibly be the centre of the universe.

 

 

Well i concede to the point human are selfish in nature. true.Also apparently you do not know what "chosen people" means.Are you referring to Jews? or whole of world's religious population because except for Jews nobody claims to be the "chosen people"(scripturally speaking)  But to say religion makes human selfish is rather an absurd argument.religion teaches to be selfless and calls people to do good deeds and abstain from what is evil and in that context i believe we can call ourselves  "chosen people". if i take you literally when you said  all lifes are considered to be equal then i believe you'll be a hypocrite(no offence). Don't you know that you can't even breath without killing germs? or to the matter you can't fill your stomach without taking plant life?

Its interesting that you have raised the question on the value of life so lets focus a bit more on human life value. Consider,if you are at crossroads, one road leading to a drowning puppy and other one leads to a drowning human baby , as both are innocent creatures which one would you save?

Right thing is to consider  that we must have high regard for human life but it doesn't mean disrespecting and being cruel to non humane life. basic essence of all religion are the same.

 

On the subject of astronomy,you've made very bizarre statements again. you are blatantly insulting the intelligence of people who are religious. its very hard not to take an offence.

 

 

Yes, I do, actually. You see, I'm rather well versed in English, and do happen to know a fair amount about religion. Thank you for the *patronising* question...

 

You also gave no evidence to support the claim made in your first post; hence, your post practically elicited a patronising response.

 

I guess it's good that you've gone a bit further than saying "you don't understand" now... Hopefully, our discussion can become more constructive as it progresses ^_^

If my comment (unintentionally) provoked a patronizing response so be it. i might have deserved it. But don't bend and twist the utterance of what your fellow player is trying to convey you and make them look in a bad light.

As you can see,i am not very well versed in English, its not my mother tongue but as a fellow member i advise you not get ruffled by the comments that some kids make against your POV. I hope you are mature enough for not making this religion vs evolution thing as its not in the interest of anyone.atleast not on this forum.

I hope i have gone even further than saying "you don't understand". i don't think its in my interest to escalate this any further.No offense intended in the reply.

 

 

[GoldRock2 290]

Religion is our first attempt of philosophy and to get answers. Naturally it was our worst and we should find better ideas.

Interesting perspective, it seems it might hold some truth ^_^

 

I'm just saying "Why didn't the scientific world publish those articels? What's wrong with them that they aren't allowed to be published. I'm not saying it's proof but I'm just interested in why they are forbidden.

I've never heard about articles with religious evidence which have been censored; by all means, provide me with some evidence which says so. I'm interested to know more about the issue you've raised :P Though historically, it has been science that has been censored, and not the other way round.

 

Yes, it does alludes that i have a better understanding of the point that YOU made.

But also i don't make condescending statements.

I'm afraid I find that allusion very condescending. To say that your understanding of my own point is better than mine without even backing such a strong statement up is borderline arrogant.

 

you have taken a specific statement of your fellow player addressed to you alone and generalized it to make it look like i am bashing all atheist statement:

 

That's uncalled for and its really pathetic to see that you have brought down the argument to such a low level where i have to defend against something which i haven't said.

I agree that it was something you didn't necessarily say. I disagree that you did not imply such a statement, for you assumed that your understanding was greater than mine. I disagree that it was uncalled for.

 

But this is unproductive, so let us move on from our patronising statements of before.

 

Well i concede to the point human are selfish in nature. true.Also apparently you do not know what "chosen people" means.Are you referring to Jews? or whole of world's religious population because except for Jews nobody claims to be the "chosen people"(scripturally speaking) But to say religion makes human selfish is rather an absurd argument.religion teaches to be selfless and calls people to do good deeds and abstain from what is evil and in that context i believe we can call ourselves "chosen people". if i take you literally when you said all lifes are considered to be equal then i believe you'll be a hypocrite(no offence). Don't you know that you can't even breath without killing germs? or to the matter you can't fill your stomach without taking plant life?

Its interesting that you have raised the question on the value of life so lets focus a bit more on human life value. Consider,if you are at crossroads, one road leading to a drowning puppy and other one leads to a drowning human baby , as both are innocent creatures which one would you save?

Yes, I am mainly referring to Judaism, though most other religions do imply such a concept at some point in their own scriptures.

 

I never said that religion makes humans selfish. What I said was that as humans are selfish, they generally tend to follow or apply religion in a selfish way (at least to some extent).

 

Breathing in germs does not kill them. As for consuming plants/animals, I do so because it is a natural food chain process, not because I disregard the importance of animal or plant life. And your question is interesting - yes, I would save the drowning human being. Why? Not because I think the puppy's life is any less important, but because as a fellow human being, I would instinctively try to preseve my own species first and foremost.

 

Maybe we are 'chosen people' in the sense that we have been given the luxury of free will, and that we have higher intelligence by far as a species than others do, but I do not think we are 'chosen' in terms of being the most important life forms. All life is important to the Earth's ecosystem - let's not forget that we weren't the first life to roam this world. The Earth could feasibly support life without our existence, whereas we depend on the Earth and other life for sustenance and development.

 

Right thing is to consider that we must have high regard for human life but it doesn't mean disrespecting and being cruel to non humane life. basic essence of all religion are the same.

 

On the subject of astronomy,you've made very bizarre statements again. you are blatantly insulting the intelligence of people who are religious. its very hard not to take an offence.

I agree completely with the first point here - well phrased!

 

As for the second, I do not know where I did so, and I apologise if I did. Please point out where I wrote anything which deemed religious people as less intelligent, so I can correct/remove it.

 

If my comment (unintentionally) provoked a patronizing response so be it. i might have deserved it. But don't bend and twist the utterance of what your fellow player is trying to convey you and make them look in a bad light.

As you can see,i am not very well versed in English, its not my mother tongue but as a fellow member i advise you not get ruffled by the comments that some kids make against your POV. I hope you are mature enough for not making this religion vs evolution thing as its not in the interest of anyone.atleast not on this forum.

I hope i have gone even further than saying "you don't understand". i don't think its in my interest to escalate this any further.No offense intended in the reply.

Well, I stand by what I said - your comment on my lack of understanding originally put yourself in a bad light. I did not have to do what has already been done.

 

However (and this is a big however), I have grown to respect you since your first post. I believe you have shown thoughtfulness and respect in your later responses, and so I hope to do the same in return. You are really very good at phrasing your points, even though English may not be your first language - if only I could speak a second language so well (I have a long way to go before I can)! :) I also agree with your advice, and will take it into account when posting here. You have most certainly gone further than saying "you don't understand", and it's great you did so. I hope we can continue to have a constructive discussion, and I apologise unreservedly for anything offensive I have said before; thanks for your detailed response!

[Mister_Bosss 5]

Because I think primates a.k.a monkeys, can't evolve to us, humans. And even if monkeys did evolve, why there are monkeys (currently)?

True i dont Belive

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Because I think primates a.k.a monkeys, can't evolve to us, humans. And even if monkeys did evolve, why there are monkeys (currently)?

True i dont Belive

It's gobsmackingly shocking that anybody could think this, let alone agree with it.

Monkeys are constantly evolving one generation at a time.

There is no reason not believe that they couldn't evolve into something similar to modern day humans,

given the right set of circumstances and enough time that is.

But we never evolved from monkeys because monkeys are monkeys and that's why there are STILL monkeys (currently)!

We did share a common PRIMATE ancestor though which has long been extinct.

 

For something like a monkey to evolve, you really need something to happen first in order for the population to adapt and change to meet the new circumstances.

A change in the environment perhaps. Some monkeys will be better suited to the new environment and

they will be stronger and fitter than those who are less suited to the change and so get the benefits of passing along their genes.

 

Gradual changes/improvements over tens of thousands of generations.

A time frame that many of us cannot comprehend.

 

Et voilà! Something that looks totally different and better adapted to it's surroundings than when it first started out.

 

[SonofDeath 512]

deleted

Edited January 17, 2014 by SonofDeath

[SonofDeath 512]

Everyone who supports evolution don't worry.

Lets take dinosaurs, I doubt that there is anyone who does not believe in them.

Similarly when there is more proof to support this theory, everyone will listen.

However I get a feeling that only when we will start migrating to other planets (in a couple thousand years), will people realize how stupid they once were

Edited January 17, 2014 by SonofDeath

[monkeyburn 13,523]

 

 

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Similarly when there is more proof to support this theory, everyone will listen.

However I get a feeling that only when we will start migrating to other planets (in a couple thousand years), will people realize how stupid they once were

Some people won't listen and won't believe no matter how much proof there is.  We already have indisputable proof. :mellow:

 

 

Wanted: Mars Colonists Wanted to Explore Red Planet

You mean in 9 years time :o

 

Devs should get working on the Mars Map now!

 

Mars - The Roman God of War!