Balancing of turrets and hulls

[ariking777 940]

Before the rebalance isida , smoky , thunder , twins did al good. Since i used Smoky , thunder and twins i didn't mind. But now smoky is worthless , twins isn't what it's used to be and people say Thunder got a bit nerfed to. 

But you need to remember that as much as it was nerfed, it was supposed to be like that but wasn't until the Rebalance. You had a good time because of the overpowering, now the party is over and the weapons are like they should of been always.

[robbie56 2,403]

But you need to remember that as much as it was nerfed, it was supposed to be like that but wasn't until the Rebalance. You had a good time because of the overpowering, now the party is over and the weapons are like they should of been always.

No , cause rico is OP. If you balance weapons , they should be equal , not that one gun stands out.

Edited May 18, 2014 by robbie56

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

But you need to remember that as much as it was nerfed, it was supposed to be like that

Really? Is there any evidence for what you say?

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

Well true that it has a entertaining value, but its about wars , money, oil etc. and not about the discussion going on in this topic.

 

Back on topic:

 

I too agree with Marek and 007, that this balance ruined the game. The game was much better before the update. If they truly wanted to make it balanced, they should have just nerfed the OPed guns (like fire, Twins, etc.) and left the other guns alone. Instead they chose to Nerf 1 set of weapons and OP the other set, which disturbed the game play.

I agree the game was more fun. I don't understand the need to kill everything with a single shot. Dying every 10 seconds is NOT fun. In my opinion the short range guns are too strong, the long range guns are good but only for long range. There is a huge hole where the medium range guns used to be. If your using a long range, and a short range gun, especially freeze, gets to you your dead. You can't defend your self. In my opinion freeze is the most annoying gun in the game. It isn't even based off of any known technology. Freeze users are are worse then druggers. You paralyze you prey so you can kill them. Try using a gun you need to aim. Every battle, except PRO, are now drug wars.

[MrTactics 219]

I thought this was all resolved...

 

*sigh*

[MrTactics 219]

Really? Is there any evidence for what you say?

Look at the damn video, BALANCE means to level something out. If it is overpowerdvir underpowered at the start they lower it or higher it. Hence the term rebalance.

[MrTactics 219]

Well true that it has a entertaining value, but its about wars , money, oil etc. and not about the discussion going on in this topic.

 

Back on topic:

 

I too agree with Marek and 007, that this balance ruined the game. The game was much better before the update. If they truly wanted to make it balanced, they should have just nerfed the OPed guns (like fire, Twins, etc.) and left the other guns alone. Instead they chose to Nerf 1 set of weapons and OP the other set, which disturbed the game play.

The face that you've failed at any point to state this your opinion takes away your credibility for being level headed, it looks rash. I do agree with this, to an extent but I assume it is because Tanki need money (fair enough) so they have to make a new unwanted turret desirable. This would get people spending. There's nothing one can do about that, its just business (my opinion) on that part and it needs to be done I could be wrong though. On the other hand they may have thought that the other guns were not as powerful as they should be and pumped them up. Not many people have rico or twins protection, so the effect could be magnified to what someone is used to as they have no protection against it. 

Edited May 18, 2014 by MrTactics

[MrTactics 219]

I agree the game was more fun. I don't understand the need to kill everything with a single shot. Dying every 10 seconds is NOT fun. In my opinion the short range guns are too strong, the long range guns are good but only for long range. There is a huge hole where the medium range guns used to be. If your using a long range, and a short range gun, especially freeze, gets to you your dead. You can't defend your self. In my opinion freeze is the most annoying gun in the game. It isn't even based off of any known technology. Freeze users are are worse then druggers. You paralyze you prey so you can kill them. Try using a gun you need to aim. Every battle, except PRO, are now drug wars.

In all fairnesses, the description of gun is in it's category. Long Range, should and never will be able to beat Short Range in a short range battle. And I think bolstering Rico and Twins has filled the medium range gap, to an extent. 

Edited May 18, 2014 by MrTactics

[MrTactics 219]

They could have done that for this rebalance. Instead of implementing it, they could have simply announced it was ready then delayed it for 12 weeks. That way, we can start planning for the changes while still enjoying recent purchases before they're made useless.

The amount of unrest will be crazy, people would  have bought the OP weapons, then would be waiting 12 weeks to use them, not tot mention people saying Tanki are sloppy and lazy (inevitable). I think not, in an ideal world yes perhaps. 

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Look at the damn video, BALANCE means to level something out. If it is overpowerdvir underpowered at the start they lower it or higher it. Hence the term rebalance.

There is no need to take that tone with me. Trying to bully me into submission is most unwelcome. Getting angry doesn't help. The question wasn't aimed at you. That said, you still didn't answer it. Strawman much?

[MrTactics 219]

There is no need to take that tone with me. Trying to bully me into submission is most unwelcome. Getting angry doesn't help. The question wasn't aimed at you. That said, you still didn't answer it. Strawman much

Tanki have said many times before why they don''t give specific dates for development things.  If you bothered to look down yuou would have seen but I will copy the message again... You've made yourself look sillly, I answered just above your post *sigh*

 

The amount of unrest will be crazy, people would  have bought the OP weapons, then would be waiting 12 weeks to use them, not tot mention people saying Tanki are sloppy and lazy (inevitable). I think not, in an ideal world yes perhaps. 

 

Edited May 18, 2014 by MrTactics

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Tanki have said many times before why they don''t give specific dates for development things.  If you bothered to look down yuou would have seen but I will copy the message again... You've made yourself look sillly, I answered just above your post *sigh*

 

This does not answer my question either. I have not made myself look silly. Saying it doesn't make it so. My original question still stands and it wasn't to you. Now please stop replying with unrelated non-specifics about nothing at all.

Edited May 18, 2014 by AbsoluteZero

[MrTactics 219]

This does not answer my question either. I have not made myself look silly. Saying it doesn't make it so. My original question still stands and it wasn't to you. Now please stop replying with unrelated non-specifics about nothing at all.

Please don't be ignorant, it's called a "rebalance" for a reason, they alter things that are overpowered, to make them "balanced" which is what they should have been in the first place. Now please stop focusing on trying to look intelligent and actually write something substantial in the next post.

Edited May 18, 2014 by MrTactics

[kEwEi 27]

So yh Rico is now op and everywhere on the battle field great job tanki

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Please don't be ignorant, it's called a "rebalance" for a reason, they alter things that are overpowered, to make them "balanced" which is what they should have been in the first place. Now please stop focusing on trying to look intelligent and actually write something substantial in the next post.

How dare you. Stop with the insults right now. I was not asking you anything.

 

My question in post 508 to ariking777 was a simple one, "Is there any evidence for what you say?"

Constantly repeating the line, 'it was supposed to be like that in the first place' - does not make it true. 

 

The first line in the video contradicts both of you.

"The process of balancing hulls and turrets is a never-ending effort"

 

Give me the source of why this rebalance is how it should have been all along or stay silent. 

If you can't give me the source then please don't reply and leave it for somebody else who actually knows the answer.

 

Please, no more insults.

[MrTactics 219]

How dare you. Stop with the insults right now. I was not asking you anything.

 

My question in post 508 to ariking777 was a simple one, "Is there any evidence for what you say?"

Constantly repeating the line, 'it was supposed to be like that in the first place' - does not make it true.

 

The first line in the video contradicts both of you.

"The process of balancing hulls and turrets is a never-ending effort"

 

Give me the source of why this rebalance is how it should have been all along or stay silent.

If you can't give me the source then please don't reply and leave it for somebody else who actually knows the answer.

 

Please, no more insults.

This is ridiculous, this is a sincere question, do you understand the aim of a rebalance? To make everything equal. Meaning that if an item is overpowered after a change IT ISNT AS IT SHOULD BE . Watch the video, they say hornet was TOO (emphasis on too) good. Meaning that it shouldn't have been the way it was prior to the rebalance , this quite explicitly implies the current change puts back it to what it should have been.

 

I don't think I can explain it any simpler.

Edited May 18, 2014 by MrTactics

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

This is ridiculous, this is a sincere question, do you understand the aim of a rebalance? To make everything equal. Meaning that if an item is overpowered after a change IT ISNT AS IT SHOULD BE . Watch the video, they say hornet was TOO (emphasis on too) good. Meaning that it shouldn't be like it is, this quite explicitly implies the current change puts it to what it should have been.

 

I don't think I can explain it any simpler.

So when they next change it all again, will you then say that is how it always should have been too?

 

What I'm trying to get at is - where was the advanced warning? When I read, "It always was meant to be like this", doesn't help after the fact. If I had known in advance that what I was buying was soon going to be changed I would not have bought what I did. This is why I'm banging on about the source.  When the new physics came out, there was no indication that equipment was soon to be made radically different. If there was, I missed it and that is why I'm asking for it.

 

And this is the whole point of this topic isn't it. It's to discuss and thrash out what we do and don't like about the update and to debate the various aspects of the whole process, the changes and its implementation.

 

What I want as player, a buyer and someone who has taken the time to engage in this topic and make my feelings known, (at personal expense), is for someone from Tanki Online to just say, 'We hear you. This could have been handled better and we will strive to do better next time.'

[r_Skybound0 12]

This is ridiculous, this is a sincere question, do you understand the aim of a rebalance? To make everything equal. Meaning that if an item is overpowered after a change IT ISNT AS IT SHOULD BE . Watch the video, they say hornet was TOO (emphasis on too) good. Meaning that it shouldn't have been the way it was prior to the rebalance , this quite explicitly implies the current change puts back it to what it should have been.

 

I don't think I can explain it any simpler.

quote "This is ridiculous, this is a sincere question, do you understand the aim of a rebalance? To make everything equal."

 

You are completely contradicting yourself aren 't you?

quote "To make everything equal": so that 's why the Tanki Devs made the Rico so extremely OP?

 

Why do you keep on defending Tanki no matter what? What is your purpose?

Or do you just like to be in heated discussions?

 

Can 't you just consider this as a topic where Tankers can blow off some steam?

That 's how the Devs consider it I suppose, because no reaction from that side till now:

and I don 't expect one either.

 

The Company policy is most likely to not react at all.

Probably the most effective way to deal with frustated Tankers also.

 

You are actually not really helping them in that perspective as the self-acclaimed Tanki-knight.

This topic stays very much alive with your kind of input: you realize that?

Your just throwing petrol on a slumbering fire.

 

 

Do you really think the Devs just made a mistake with the Rico? They made it accidently stronger as they had intended?

 

Come on, these guys know almost exactly what happens if they change the parameters.

To not think so, would be insulting towards them in my opinion. They are Pro 's no doubt!

This is done on purpose, just like the following discount was done on purpose.

 

It was truly a real "surprise" that the Rico was choosen by the communities as the weapon to be discounted with 50%.

Next time I hope they make three paints to choose from, just like they did on the Tournaments.

Which turret will be number one? Might have won this time! (I did with Noob Army...also an easy pick)

 

The result: Ricochets all over the place! And only long-distance weapons that achieve to stay at a distance, have a

fair chance against these rebalanced Ricochets.

Welcome to the Rico-Wars! We now guarantee you quick and many respawns!

 

This whole Rebalance has nothing to do with TRUE balancing.

Yes, they are working with "the scales" on the game.

And they are actually balancing some equipment in the good direction. Freeze is a good example.

It 's still strong enough, but the freeze effect lasts a lot shorter which improves the game experience for all. (in my view)

 

 

But a gun like my Smoky M1 has become useless now. I used to have many criticals with it, even more than I supposed

to have if I looked at the statistics. Very nice weapon, that could compete.

Now I have more criticals, but not that many more and the damage they do almost make my

enemies smile. Especially when they have a Rico: they grin.

 

Guess what I bought at the discount? Not my intention, but I did not have much choice isn 't it?

If you can 't beat them, join them. At least if you want to earn crystals: most Tankers like I do.

Balanced? Think again if the vast majority is already or soon will be Ricochet.

 

I wish I could have bought some kind of stocks in Ricochet Paints because that would made me a very rich Tanker now.

 

 

Last thing: keep on insulting decent responding persons like AbsoluteZero and I will definitely report you.

[Amagi 1,728]

^Don't you get it? Tanki is all about $$$.

The developers' perception of balance is not really a balance, it's more of a "Make certain guns/hulls underpowered and the others overpowered and give sale to the overpowered guns/hulls" type of balance. You know, to keep the money flowing.

 

TBH, If I had a million dollars, I would give it all to the devs and tell them to change Tanki back to the way it was 2 years ago.

 

Eventually they will change the parameters again and make Rico really underpowered in an effort to "balance" the game. -_-

 

STOP BEING IGNORANT PEOPLE!!!

Edited May 19, 2014 by Stinger911

[r_Skybound0 12]

^ I do get it. The next weapon to be nerfed is the Ricochet for sure and perhaps a weapon like Smoky will

get a buff.

 

Future quote: "we saw in the gaming results that the Ricochet is slighty too powerfull now, that 's why we decided to

reduce the damage"

In actual gameplay after this upcoming "Total Balance", "Newest Physics" or whatever it will be called this will mean Rico will only be played and still be successfull by guys who really know how to get the best out of this weapon. And make every plasma projectile count!

 

At the moment even the biggest nubs (like myself) can achieve nice scores with it. At least with the Rico M1, don 't know about the M0, didn 't

play with it.

 

All the veterans I suppose know how it works. I read the history and on the Forum and think I understand how Tanki works till a certain extend.

 

Real newcomers don 't, especially young kids who only want to play. They just get or buy what is the best at the moment.

When they are tired and bored with the game they leave. As long as there are enough newcomers Tanki can do

whatever it wants. "They don 't give a fudge about nonbuyers" is too harsh, but it 's not where the focus lies that 's for sure.

 

They only should be carefull not to alienate the guys who are in this game for "Ages". Can 't tell if this is happening, but at least there

is quite a group of them. When moods swing anything can happen, just a part of human nature.

 

It may sound that I don 't like the game: the opposite is true. It is a very nice game, with constant development in the background.

Tanki on Unity, mobile devices, tweaking the Game, Forum etc.

Most of these changes are good and make the game better and better.

Tanki is very much alive!

 

This doesn 't mean you shouldn 't complain. The contrary: if they don 't get feedback, how will they know what the Tankers want?

So keep this topic alive, which will be wanted or unwantedly be supported by Tankers like MrTactics, and perhaps we can

achieve a new rethinking on these Balances. Devs are not robots but humans too.

 

Tanki must make money, I am pretty aware of that, it is a business after all!

Those people work hard for us and deserve a good salary.

 

I certainly don 't have the answer how to make money in a different way, not my job either: but how it goes now with these "Balances"

followed by discounts I feel is not the solution, and a dead end in the long run in my view.

 

Be creative Tanki, like you are in the Game itself!

[MrTactics 219]

You've just acknowledged tanki must make money, and I tell you if they didn't care about non buyers. There wouldn't be any sales, Tanki would probably be a paid service. And prices for hulls and turrets would be extravagant. Obviously they will focus on there income source more than others who provide very little in keeping the game running.

 

Many fail to see the difference between complaining and giving advice. They then wonder why they won't get a response however in the previous topic, semyon gives you his response. Complaining and giving advice are two things people in this thread fail to differentiate. It's also becoming apparent that some may be frustrated because the dev's aren't responding to these moaners. I can assure you though, if someone here has put something useful the dev's will probably take it into account. Moaning just to get a reaction won't succumb to anything.

[ATTANKER 35]

^ That's right, but before the Rebalance not only Rico but Isida and Smoky were Overpowered! It's better that only Ricochet will be overpowered rather than Ricochet and Isida and Smoky! It's not by chance that now the damage of the Critical Hit of Smoky is lower - it was much too high before the Rebalance.

As a smoky user myself, and being very familiar with that weapon i have to disagree on your surmise of the critical hit of smoky. It would take 5 or 6 hits before the critical hit was activated, and the reload in smoky isnt as great as rico (and even more so after the rebalance)...even thunder in 2 hits was taking just as much damage as smoky would in the 5 or 6 hits+...and the problem with the critical hits, was if i hit one player the 5 or 6 times before the critical hit shot was ready, then at that moment (some of the time), i wouldnt have needed the critical hit because target only needed one regular hit to be destroyed anyway...and so most of critical hits maximum capacity was wasted on a user already at the point of destruction...

Edited May 18, 2014 by ATTANKER

[ATTANKER 35]

Also because i had to shoot on target my opponenets to reach the critical hit, and as i mentioned the relativeness of smoky weapons loading time to other weapons and output above, its logical to understand that being in smoky is hard enough trying to make the kill, that could be 1. taken by a team-mate 2. having to deal with multiple opponents at the same time in same place making it doubly hard to make the kill therefore the critical hit was necessary...

 

Most people who arent fond of critical hits and take a bias view were those who were hit by a critical hit in the first shot by the smoky user and thus compared it to a normal hit and retorted it was OPed...besides smoky critical shot was few and far between, compared to rico which is not only fast to load, powerful but also so great at making an impact its impossible to fend off, atleast when you faced off with a smoky you could get a hit in....therefore smoky wasnt OPed.....without that critcal hit, it would have been a dummy weapon, which you would have liked because you dont use it....and for me it would have been good for distracting oppenents but not for making kills...i hope they put it back...at the moment from a distance smoky only takes like 5-10% only in one hit depending on the hull and rank of opponent and even if that was fair, then its not fair that smoky precsion targetting is very very hard...smoky user is more likely to miss (even from near, but not so much)...which is cool because smoky user will need more skill...but to balance it altogether, impact force and the critical hits (damage not frequency) need an increase or make smoky slightly more powerful from long range (one or the other) or increase reload time to where it was before rebalance (all these aspects got nerfed)

Edited May 18, 2014 by ATTANKER

[r_Skybound0 12]

You've just acknowledged tanki must make money, and I tell you if they didn't care about non buyers. There wouldn't be any sales, Tanki would probably be a paid service. And prices for hulls and turrets would be extravagant. Obviously they will focus on there income source more than others who provide very little in keeping the game running.

 

Many fail to see the difference between complaining and giving advice. They then wonder why they won't get a response however in the previous topic, semyon gives you his response. Complaining and giving advice are two things people in this thread fail to differentiate. It's also becoming apparent that some may be frustrated because the dev's aren't responding to these moaners. I can assure you though, if someone here has put something useful the dev's will probably take it into account. Moaning just to get a reaction won't succumb to anything.

quote "You've just acknowledged tanki must make money" I have given you the perfect strawman didn 't I.

 

That 's what you do in this topic. Pick one quote and proof your "right" on that point.

And very conveniently you simply ignore the subjects you don 't have a direct answer to.

It 's said to you before and you just keep doing it. Don 't expect it to change either. Have it your way.

 

Yes, Tanki is set up as a free game, and what I read it was a lot easier to get high-ranked in the past.

 

Well, you have to be very good in the present Tanki to make enough crystals to get whatever you want (need).

I would like to have Dragon paint now (micro upgraded as well to be effective).

 

Don 't have the crystals I need, so next option could be buying?

I suppose there are more players like me who doubt about buying or not buying at some point.

I don 't see that as a defeat or bad. No, it 's allright in my own case if it stays in hand. And it would be good for the game I love.

 

If I read about Tankers who invest huge amounts of real money to micro upgrade their garage I do wonder myself,

at this stage at least: why would you do that?

On the other hand it is their choice and as a customer you should also expect some result from such an expensive investment.

 

If soon after your weapon of choice gets nerfed badly after an unexpected Rebalance, they you have the full right to be angry.

Even Tanki knows that, that 's why this topic is here.

Such a nerf might even be the reason for some to leave the game. That 's not good. Tanki will surely not be happy with that.

 

They are customers! Even you have to acknowledge that, because you are constantly hammering on the fact that

Tanki is a business.

Do you even realize that in a business the customers are King? Otherwise you soon don 't have a business anymore.

Basic rule of Economics.

 

Customers don 't moan! You can make a fool of customers behind closed doors, but a wise company will never

say something like that in public!

 

And Tanki never did or will as far as I know, and I don 't even think that they call us "moaners" behind those closed doors!

They have a different view on the matter because of their position in it, but I sure they understand the complaints.

I also understand the difficulty of this subject for them, there is no easy solution.

But being silent will certainy not help!

If you want to make people really angry they should have reacted like I read in this topic: just be quiet and play!

Tanki doesn 't do that all and that is a wise decision!

 

Customers complain and if you want to alienate your customers you certainly must start with calling them "moaners".

Another fine example in which I wonder if Tanki is so happy with your involvement in this matter?

You might consider choosing different words than "moaners" in your next reply.

 

Maybe they are searching for an answer, I wouldn 't know.

They don 't need advice from us, like we are that smart and can give that: ideas and suggestions are what they need.

In the end they have to come up with the solution, not us Tankers.

And certainly they need complaints to make them aware of the things their customers are unhappy about!

 

In my point of view it doesn 't matter if you are a buyer or a non-buyer. It is a free game so we start of with the same

rights after all.

And every Tanker is potentionally a buyer so a smart company like Tanki tries to make everyone always as happy as possible.

That is also their intention, I have no doubt about that.

 

Again an abundance of strawmen in this one. Make your choice.

[ATTANKER 35]

critical hit was the niche of smoky....it made it exciting to use and effective....but now its worthless....its just there now for the spectacle not for anything else.......

 

1. freeze can ice multiple opponents to a standstill (not just the hulls but the turrets too)

 

2. thunder can be used from afar and still hit opponenets by hitting the walls and layout nearby without making a direct hit, aswell as hitting multiple opponents (even if im hiding...hehehehe :ph34r:)

 

3. shaft has arcade mode aswell as the snipe mode which can destroy 2 or more opponents in one shot if they are one behind another in a straight line in trajectory to the sniper

 

4. railgun is just awesome (though i dont use it) and now with greater impact force and greater precision to the point that if railgun user was about to miss, user still gets given the benefit of the doubt and a hit is recorded, also the same as shaft in respect of one behind another hit; perhaps shot precison is based on from when the release of the shot at the target from the railgun user was taken, as opposed to where i am in relation to the line of fire at the point of impact

(I have been hit numerous times by railgun that missed me by a whisker from my point of view but the hit was still made...that wasnt the case before rebalance)

 

5. firebird can burn multiple opponents, aswell as keep them burning for long enough to get the kill/s gradually

 

6. isda makes easy kills in a face-off, HP is great at close range and heals team mates

 

7. ricochet is so (more like tooooo powerful) powerful (bounces up, down, left, right and easy targetting now from a gradient) i dont need to say anymore

 

8. twins isnt the most popular weapon (though its used alot now at silence and railgun less so) but is a double hitter in rapid succesion.........

 

9. then smoky? hmmmmm

Edited May 18, 2014 by ATTANKER