Balancing of turrets and hulls

[ATTANKER 35]

what should be done

Hulls-I think they are balanced although hunter is till not that popular cause of price I think.

Turrets

Thunder -balanced

Smoky - can be improved

rico-balanced

isida-balanced

freeze and firebird balanced

shaft has more players now but still can have higher damadge

rail-balanced

twins-balanced

i disagree. i think some of the turrets have been unfairly balanced in relation to one another, taking into consideration the likeliness of facing off with weapons that could well be m1 or even m2  within 1 or 2 ranks (at my level), make it harder to make an accurate judgement of an opponents weapon in relation to what it is for someone else and what it would be without the rebalance all shuffled in with what paint one is using, (but i'd like to think i have enough wherewithall to make an assessment about specific weapons credentials and power and the effect they have at my stage in ranks compared to one another...if that makes sense  :rolleyes: ) ...... moving on ....however even though i never use thunder at all....in the beginning of the rebalance i was of the opinion that it was utterly nerfed...but in hindsight i will pose a question...was it in fact overpowered/juiced up previously...thats the problem we all have of tying up all the eventualities of the rebalance...its quite hard to put it all in one bubble...i know its not an exact science.... and thats the fun of it to experiment and see what suits you...but if u invested in something, its hard to take when it gets downgraded....

but definetly some turrets are overpowered...and im not trying to come from an angle where i making an arguement due to my partialty for one turret and then seeing another turret becoming more powerful or more favoured then my own (which is smoky)......which is easy to do

 

even when i race in battles where everyone is relatively same rank i notice disparaties and uneven playing field/equality between weapons....some might say im in an m1 smoky compared to other users now...but i was making an arguement even before others had moved up towards m2 turrets and i was making the case for the overpowering of weapons when i was previously fighting battles of lower ranking amongst lower tiers of weapons of my opponents NOW iTS EVEN WORSE...i do keep in mind as i said before that nothing is perfect and current status of turrets is open and not absolute...but when u see an m1 firebird take out 3 of my team mates and myself within 3 secs near our own flag and i was at 3/4 health and didnt even burn, just instant destruction (though firebird user had double power) you have to ask is that fair...yes i know firebird has no range dimension and that has to be an allowance for that by making it stronger up close but my smoky isnt strong from afar or from close...isda cant take out 4 guys in 3 secs etc...isda couldnt even take out 2 let alone 3 let alone 4......things like that keep popping up...

 

railgun for one has such a great margin for error its getting silly...even if my oppenent was going to miss me because i managed to evade him by twisting and turning (up close to one another) and u can tell his shot was going to go miles wide...somehow they still get their shot on target (its not always the case...but more often then not...i just feel the margin should be greater the greater the distance...but that doesnt seem so)...this wasnt the case before the rebalance...its like railgun is automated..from far or close the margin for error in railgun is so big and thats not fair because railgun is effective from afar and close at the same level of damage and is high in damage too...as a smoky i use to use impact force to counter this aspect/technicality but since the rebalance its been altered to the worse...impact force in smoky was good now its negligible...and what makes it even more hard to stomach is that railguns impact force has been juiced up to the max (even from my own team-mates, which nevertheless affects us all)....unfortuantely one rose so much and the other went drastically down hmmmm...couldnt one just go down...or one just go up...smoky needs impact force because its damage is way too low.....(actually NOTHING should ever go down...thats like the crux or the bottom line of everything im trying to say)

 

and im gonna say it again how can rails impact force go dramatically up and smokys go dramatically down and users here say the rebalance was balanced....have they seen shaft taking out guys in one shot (which i understand and acknowledge, but for my part thats not the problem, but the rotation speed and the arcade shots going up and NOTHING going down is my arguement, lol i use to use shaft before the previous rebalance, and now its gone back to where it was before and more....then why oh why the previous rebalance)...and what about ricochet ...fastest reload...super powerful shots...high impact...shoots from far enough now...shoots from close..bounces up down left right...for me ricochet was balanced before...if people didnt use it it was because they didnt see its potential not because it was underpowered...maybe devs should have given it a red colour instead of yellow...that would have been better

Edited May 10, 2014 by ATTANKER

[ATTANKER 35]

this thread should never be closed

[ATTANKER 35]

no one is using dictator and it was one of the winners out of the hulls....i still see more vikings...yep i know people brought them at 50% ...but not to see any dictators save sparsely isnt a good sign if the aim was to evolve tanki.....switch viking and dictator make is imperative for devs

...lol and dictator was for sale at 30% aswell..hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm#

[MrTactics 219]

@AbsolouteZero, I haven't insulting anyone, rather I described the impression some of the statements gave. If you look at the other messages complainers said (which you conviniently left out) the words I used to describe them are quite humble to say the least. Accusing me of "bullying" is so hilarious I cant actually come up with a good enough response without lahghing.

 

You failed to address the other statements I posted there, I can only assume its because you realised how extravagant these statements were.

 

Forgive me for thinking like this, but if you have a complaint or suggestion to improve, it should be explained with sincerity and sanity. Producing libellous statements, spineless "facts" and extremified exaggerations in an arguement not only takes away the credebility of ones comment . But it strikes an image of Tanki which in my opinion isn't justifiable.

Edited May 9, 2014 by MrTactics

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

 I DO think however, so that no one will be less well off, they should allow partial refunds, 50% say.

 

This means those of us who have saved and waited patiently for a sale and bought do not lose out completely. Although this isn't full compensation for the time and effort spent saving, as well as missed sale opportunities, this is a good compromise no?

I did say in a previous comment that we should have compensation that is proportionate to the loss suffered.  I then went on to say that even that would still not be a fair settlement but at least I could accept that tanki were making an effort trying to meet me part of the way.

 

Of course nobody wants to see this game turn stale. I want it to succeed and change is good for the most part but not when players are spending hard earned cash for certain items only for those same items to be weakened without a moments thought or sorry to the buyer!  Insult was added to injury when they told us to adapt!  

 

Look at the table below (hope I worked the percentages out right - I've had a hard day). I had a fully micro upgraded M3 Isida before the changes. Almost 1 Million crystals was required to fully upgrade it! The self healing used to be 70 per second at a cost of 108,293 cyrstals. It was nerfed by nearly 30%. I would like a 30,941 crystal refund on that parameter alone. Consider all aspects and I'd like 60,000 crystals back. Not nearly enough in my opinion but I'd accept it and move on.

 

I've not worked out the cost for my other turrets and hulls that were also nerfed.

 

 

 

 

If tanki apologised for this and promised they'd take players' garages into account next time they implement a rebalance then I would probably move on but right now I don't have the heart. Once you lose trust in something, it's difficult to regain it.

[MrTactics 219]

You have no right to anything, Tanki can do whatever they please to your account at any time with no warning. You cant say that its unfair cause like it or not you agreed those conditions when you joined the game. Motality or immorality has no relevance in the subject. They could make your beloved m3 Isida m0 and you have no right to a conversation. You agreed to it, so adapt.

Edited May 9, 2014 by MrTactics

[r_Skybound0 12]

You have no right to anything, Tanki can do whatever they please to your account at any time with no warning. You cant say that its unfair cause like it or not you agreed those conditions when you joined the game. Motality or immorality has no relevance in the subject. They could make your beloved m3 Isida m0 and you have no right to a conversation. You agreed to it, so adapt.

...bowing and scraping...

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

You have no right to anything, Tanki can do whatever they please to your account at any time with no warning. You cant say that its unfair cause like it or not you agreed those conditions when you joined the game. Motality or immorality has no relevance in the subject. They could make your beloved m3 Isida m0 and you have no right to a conversation. You agreed to it, so adapt.

 

^ I never once said I had a right to anything so you can keep your strawman. I certainly can say things are unfair if I so wish and proffer suggestions or solutions in discussions such as this one, Tanki welcome it. Listen, they want me to play their game right, it's a two way street. Players complained during a sale when nobody could access the site for a day - tanki listened and extended the sale. Players complained about Zeus paint's description - tanki listened and appeased them. Who is to say that tanki won't listen to the many people here? I did say in a previous comment that quoting the EULA won't wash. I'm quite sure they would prefer to keep players happy. Happy players spend money.

[yvano 35]

You have no right to anything, Tanki can do whatever they please to your account at any time with no warning. You cant say that its unfair cause like it or not you agreed those conditions when you joined the game. Motality or immorality has no relevance in the subject. They could make your beloved m3 Isida m0 and you have no right to a conversation. You agreed to it, so adapt.

You have no idea about what you are saying,What if Tanki goes further the next time?are we just gonna sit arms crossed and watch?It is our right get it?read point 1 under contacts with administration:

1. User can send any questions, remarks, complaints or comments regarding this Agreement  at help@tankionline.com. The Administration will consider your questions as soon as possible.You do pAY crystals right? will you be happy if you read this?:5.    The Company shall be entitled to unilaterally terminate this EULA granted herein and to desist from offering the Game to User at its sole discretion and without prior notice and without returning to User any payments. well know this they dont even care if you read the EULA:

4. The Company is under no obligation to verify if User uses the Game and/ or Internet Site according to the updated version of this EULA. The version posted on the Internet Site is the effective version, and that which User should use as reference. It is User’s responsibility to inform himself of this EULA, as well as being familiarised with the modifications that affect User and/or will and/or might affect User.

:according to you how many players read the EULA,and honestly and in all sincerity did you read the EULA in all its integrality?Considering the fact that just a few proportion of the players read it just partially and are really conscious of what signing it entails, who do you think will ever play this game (maybe those who never pay or kids),Well they know almost no one ever reads it just as no one ever reads the game rules.did you even know that it is against the agreement to join in the game without reading EULA?Well,the answer comes from the Eula itself:

The Company highly recommends that from time to time User takes a look at this EULA in order to have knowledge of any modified version of this EULA. Should User  disagrees with any part of this EULA he  should immediately cease use of the Game and/ or Internet Site and it shall be User’s responsibility to inform the Company of his disagreement in order that the Company may take the necessary measures, which might include User’s impossibility of making use of the Game and/ or Internet Site and any Online Facility. Sorry for the quality of my english I am french afterall but I deem my english level is sufficient.In case you doubt the source of my affirmations you can read the EULA for yourself,I havent change any word of it.

Edited May 9, 2014 by yvano

[MrTactics 219]

^ I never once said I had a right to anything so you can keep your strawman. I certainly can say things are unfair if I so wish and proffer suggestions or solutions in discussions such as this one, Tanki welcome it. Listen, they want me to play their game right, it's a two way street. Players complained during a sale when nobody could access the site for a day - tanki listened and extended the sale. Players complained about Zeus paint's description - tanki listened and appeased them. Who is to say that tanki won't listen to the many people here? I did say in a previous comment that quoting the EULA won't wash. I'm quite sure they would prefer to keep players happy. Happy players spend money.

Ah ssurprisingly defensive when I make that point, your previous post gave a very strong impression that you seemed entitled to a refund or compensation. Forgive me for thinking you were silly enough to imply that, I guess I inferred it wrong. Having an opinion is fine, but libellous statements (not saying anyone inparticular) superlatives and spineless facts are not needed when someone voices one. It just makes them look like they don't know what they are on about.

 

Apologies.

Edited May 10, 2014 by MrTactics

[MrTactics 219]

@yvano saying "they know no one reads it" is a pathetic reason in my opinion. I'n any credible environment , ignorance is not a valid excuse. If you don't like the "newly discovered" terms (just when they get vaguely practised) , the alternative is quite simple.

Edited May 10, 2014 by MrTactics

[yvano 35]

@yvano saying "they know no one reads it" is a pathetic reason in my opinion. I'n any credible environment , ignorance is not a valid excuse. If you don't like the "newly discovered" terms (just when they get vaguely practised) , the alternative is quite simple.

you seem to praise this company a lot,you did not even answer my question about EULA,nevertheless my reason being so pathetic as you say it doesnt makes it the least untrue.I guess no change in this game will ever disturb you,comply yourself with the game as much as you want,afterall a tamed animal just obeys without questioning.The alternative as you say is an option I am soon going to take atleast there I will make valuable use of my money,are you even aware of the implications of this statement? 5.    The Company shall be entitled to unilaterally terminate this EULA granted herein and to desist from offering the Game to User at its sole discretion and without prior notice and without returning to User any payments

Edited May 10, 2014 by yvano

[MrTactics 219]

you seem to praise this company a lot,you did not even answer my question about EULA,nevertheless my reason being so pathetic as you say it doesnt makes it the least untrue.I guess no change in this game will ever disturb you,comply yourself with the game as much as you want,afterall a tamed animal just obeys without questioning.The alternative as you say is an option I am soon going to take atleast there I will make valuable use of my money,are you even aware of the implications of this statement? 5. The Company shall be entitled to unilaterally terminate this EULA granted herein and to desist from offering the Game to User at its sole discretion and without prior notice and without returning to User any payments

I told you this in my previous post, of course I'm aware of this and I'm perfectly happy with that, just because they have the right to doesn't mean they will. But if they do I know where I stand. A bank (in uk) if they go bust have no obligation to pay you more than £85k so if you put in a million you lose 915k. That doesn't mean people will stop using banks now does it, it's a measurement in place if the worst comes to happen. Also, I will link you to my "why there can't be a refund" thread which can explain it.

 

Have a read

http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=200112&view=findpost&p=3553511

Edited May 10, 2014 by MrTactics

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

I told you this in my previous post, of course I'm aware of this and I'm perfectly happy with that, just because they have the right to doesn't mean they will. But if they do I know where I stand. A bank (in uk) if they go bust have no obligation to pay you more than £85k so if you put in a million you lose 915k. That doesn't mean people will stop using banks now does it, it's a measurement in place if the worst comes to happen. Also, I will link you to my "why there can't be a refund" thread which can explain it.

 

Have a read

http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=200112&view=findpost&p=3553511

 

I read your post. You are absolutely right about the fact that buyers need to be motivated to buy crystals. Problem now is, how can you expect someone to be motivated to spend crystals on something that may not be there tomorrow? Adjusting parameters slightly to help balance is one thing, but completely altering a hull or turrets characteristics is something else. People bought thunder because of it's characteristics not smokeys. Or if we wanted viking to be like dictator we would have bought dictator. I personally don't care about a refund anymore. I just want someone to say "Ok we hear you and will be a little more careful next time"

Edited May 10, 2014 by Canadian_Eh

[Pathfinder 1,690]

I did say in a previous comment that we should have compensation that is proportionate to the loss suffered. I then went on to say that even that would still not be a fair settlement but at least I could accept that tanki were making an effort trying to meet me part of the way.

 

Of course nobody wants to see this game turn stale. I want it to succeed and change is good for the most part but not when players are spending hard earned cash for certain items only for those same items to be weakened without a moments thought or sorry to the buyer! Insult was added to injury when they told us to adapt!

 

Look at the table below (hope I worked the percentages out right - I've had a hard day). I had a fully micro upgraded M3 Isida before the changes. Almost 1 Million crystals was required to fully upgrade it! The self healing used to be 70 per second at a cost of 108,293 cyrstals. It was nerfed by nearly 30%. I would like a 30,941 crystal refund on that parameter alone. Consider all aspects and I'd like 60,000 crystals back. Not nearly enough in my opinion but I'd accept it and move on.

 

I've not worked out the cost for my other turrets and hulls that were also nerfed.

 

 

 

 

If tanki apologised for this and promised they'd take players' garages into account next time they implement a rebalance then I would probably move on but right now I don't have the heart. Once you lose trust in something, it's difficult to regain it.

I'm sorry man, that's a lot of wasted crystals :/ and here I was being annoyed that my m1 thunder and m1 viking are now not what I wanted..

 

But maybe isida m3 was too good before? I mean 70% self healing wow...

 

Also don't forget- isida can now shoot for 6 instead of 5 seconds. You might need to take that into account when calculating damage as well as healing. Also this means that reload time has actually improved- the time is longer but this is to charge up 6 instead of 5 seconds of 'shooting'. This increase in damage also means you gain more self healing in fact over time. So maybe it hasn't been nerfed as much as you think.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Pathfinder

[MrTactics 219]

I read your post. You are absolutely right about the fact that buyers need to be motivated to buy crystals. Problem now is, how can you expect someone to be motivated to spend crystals on something that may not be there tomorrow? Adjusting parameters slightly to help balance is one thing, but completely altering a hull or turrets characteristics is something else. People bought thunder because of it's characteristics not smokeys. Or if we wanted viking to be like dictator we would have bought dictator. I personally don't care about a refund anymore. I just want someone to say "Ok we hear you and will be a little more careful next time"

Yeah I get that, but like hazel said everything will be nerfed and buffed eventually because it is a continuous cycle. So there's nothing one really can do, the last post semyon said in the other thread that was closed more or less summed up what you wanted to be said. But I doubt many people read it in all fairness. It was inevitable it would happen because if the majoirty of hulls and turrets are Isida, Hornet, Viking. There's something wrong. 

Edited May 10, 2014 by MrTactics

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

I'm sorry man, that's a lot of wasted crystals :/ and here I was being annoyed that my m1 thunder and m1 viking are now not what I wanted..

 

But maybe isida m3 was too good before? I mean 70% self healing wow...

 

Also don't forget- isida can now shoot for 6 instead of 5 seconds. You might need to take that into account when calculating damage as well as healing. Also this means that reload time has actually improved- the time is longer but this is to charge up 6 instead of 5 seconds of 'shooting'. This increase in damage also means you gain more self healing in fact over time. So maybe it hasn't been nerfed as much as you think.

Thanks, just think of the crystals I wasted on upgrading my m3 hornet and viking to practically m4 status!

You have to look at Isida in conjunction with the hulls it was best suited for to see how much this gun has been reduced. i.e, Hornet and Viking. Isida is a close range gun so you need a hull with a good combination of speed and protection to go with it.

You say it might have been too good before. Perhaps or perhaps not. It's debatable, all things considered. It wasn't 70% but 70hp restored in one second to your tank. I understand the 5 to 6 seconds and the advantages you get with that change but I picked the self heal parameter on purpose. That's the important one for me. Due to the fact that the popular hulls have had their protection parameters lowered, 50hp/sec is just not enough to survive for any meaningful length of time, even when using supplies. It's no good having 1 extra second to inflict damage and heal if you can't survive 5 seconds anymore. 50hp/sec btw, is fully upgraded m3. It's practically useless for a gun in it's own right. It's now a turret ducking and diving, healers or those sacrificial lambs to the slaughter who don't mind being destroyed for someone else's benefit.

 

My beef isn't just with Isida as you know. It's with the whole picture. The time and money I've spent developing my garage around specific items that I carefully selected due to advertised specifications. Then I find they've been massively changed practically overnight.

 

Tanki should have set dates for rebalances and advertise them constantly. It would be less of a shock to the system when it happens. We 'all know' that Rico is over powered at present. Can you see players going out to buy it now, buying paints to combat it or upgrading existing ones? Will we all get a shock in 2 months time from tanki saying, "Sorry, slight mistake with Rico guys - we're gonna nerf it - like, tomorrow!"  Yes, I know that they CAN do what they want but it's hardly fair and decent.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Problem now is, how can you expect someone to be motivated to spend crystals on something that may not be there tomorrow? Adjusting parameters slightly to help balance is one thing, but completely altering a hull or turrets characteristics is something else. People bought thunder because of it's characteristics not smokeys. Or if we wanted viking to be like dictator we would have bought dictator. I personally don't care about a refund anymore. I just want someone to say "Ok we hear you and will be a little more careful next time"

 

Succinct and spot on again!

[MrTactics 219]

@AbsolouteZero 

 

I understand that, but once again its all a change in progress. Everything will be nerfed and buffed for all manner of reasons to keep Tanki going on, it's not a nice thing to stomach for some, but it is essential in order to keep the game alive. I'm not an affiliate to Tanki (contrary to popular belief), but I do defend/oppose what I think is right/wrong at times and I'm glad we've come to an understanding. All changes are done in the interest of the game in general the balance between Company and Customer is a difficult one to handle (I assume). 

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

@AbsolouteZero 

 

I understand that, but once again its all a change in progress. Everything will be nerfed and buffed for all manner of reasons to keep Tanki going on, it's not a nice thing to stomach for some, but it is essential in order to keep the game alive. I'm not an affiliate to Tanki (contrary to popular belief), but I do defend/oppose what I think is right/wrong at times and I'm glad we've come to an understanding. All changes are done in the interest of the game in general the balance between Company and Customer is a difficult one to handle (I assume). 

 

It's the way they've done it though. Next time they should tell us 3 months in advance of proposed changes. That way we can alter our buying behaviour and adjust strategies in time for the change while still having time to enjoy recent purchases.

I know this has been heated at times but I'm glad you're here making an argument. ;)

[RampagingVenom 554]

It's like any business if they don't changed they find themselves stagnant people get bored

& thus eventually leave so the RB IMO is a good idea as it keeps the game alive & fresh

 

Sometimes ppl get stuck in their comfort zone & hate the idea of change which is understandable

but by takening that step & going with the change & adapting your find things more exciting/challenging

than before as I have learned so now I'm using turrets/hulls not used before.

 

Remember people what goes around comes around :-)

like fashion what was in years ago goes out but gets popular at some point like many things in life.

 

Peace to all :-)

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

It's like any business if they don't changed they find themselves stagnant people get bored

& thus eventually leave so the RB IMO is a good idea as it keeps the game alive & fresh

Nobody is arguing with that although I doubt this was the primary reason for the rebalance.

 

 

Sometimes ppl get stuck in their comfort zone & hate the idea of change which is understandable

but by takening that step & going with the change & adapting your find things more exciting/challenging

than before as I have learned so now I'm using turrets/hulls not used before.

You need to read this topic and find out why people are angry and upset. Reading the last couple of pages even should make you realise that this type of response only serves to add fuel to the fire. It's nothing to do with change per se, nor to do with comfort zones, more to do with the manner in which these changes were implemented without due regard for players who have expended time, money and effort, developing their garages only for them to be hit with radical changes, practically overnight, which ruins pretty much everything they worked and paid for over the last year.

 

Time for the tanki devs to interject and say they hear us and will make the necessary changes/improvements to methods in the future. This could have been handled so much better and they know it.

 

Peace to you too! :-)

[ariking777 940]

Nobody is arguing with that although I doubt this was the primary reason for the rebalance.

 

 

You need to read this topic and find out why people are angry and upset. Reading the last couple of pages even should make you realise that this type of response only serves to add fuel to the fire. It's nothing to do with change per se, nor to do with comfort zones, more to do with the manner in which these changes were implemented without due regard for players who have expended time, money and effort, developing their garages only for them to be hit with radical changes, practically overnight, which ruins pretty much everything they worked and paid for over the last year.

 

Time for the tanki devs to interject and say they hear us and will make the necessary changes/improvements to methods in the future. This could have been handled so much better and they know it.

 

Peace to you too! :-)

Well, I understand that people that had spent their money on the game feel their money had been wasted, but as a Player that hadn't ever bought crystals I think that the rebalance was really necessary. BTW, that's my 500th post in the forum!  B)

[MrTactics 219]

It's the way they've done it though. Next time they should tell us 3 months in advance of proposed changes. That way we can alter our buying behaviour and adjust strategies in time for the change while still having time to enjoy recent purchases.

I know this has been heated at times but I'm glad you're here making an argument. ;)

Perhaps a longer notification prior to release would've been suitable, 3 Months is quite a while though. I'll only oppose something if a statement or phrase is incorrect, everyone is entitled to an opinion. 

[Pathfinder 1,690]

Well, I understand that people that had spent their money on the game feel their money had been wasted, but as a Player that hadn't ever bought crystals I think that the rebalance was really necessary. BTW, that's my 500th post in the forum!  B)

Same here, I feel strongly about the rebalance even though I've never bought. Cannot start to imagine how much worse it would be for players who spend money.