Let's Discuss Isida!

[yoboydw 0]

1)

you only are burning for about 5-10 seconds

enough said.

2) "freezes are very common"

3) reloading speed doesn't matter, short range weapons usually die after their first kill (if it's dm) and in team matches they can escape to reload.

if not, reread this point

4) having the longest charge doesn't mean you get an increased dps now does it. Also it doesn't matter if you die before exhausting your charge.i'm sharing for the newbs. anyways,

 

isida always has been the worst in attacking. I do MU my isida (prior to the microupgrade update i mostly upgraded the damage and self heal feature. it's currently an isida m2 26/50). Even then it barely beats a freeze m2. A freeze m2 is available to WO5's, and it would be pretty unfair to give earlier players such an advantage if freeze were more powerful than that. freeze also has the largest capacity out of the three weapons. isida also has the shortest range out of all the three weapons. it is already at a disadvantage. not to mention that the ranges of firebird and freeze were increased while isida's was decreased.

 

Like i said, an isida can either heal or damage at one point in time. and it draws from the same er pool of ammo, whatever you call it. it's not as if it does all three simultaneously, and it's ammo capacity isn't even nearly as much as freeze. Now it doesn't do well in healing or damaging, or self-healing. if it can't do anything well in anything it does, it's just bad.

 

the k/d is just a representation of how weak the isida has become. Also, k/d does matter. if you're minding your own business healing and only defending yourself when needed, k/d shows how you fare against opponents. however, i agreee that the NUMBER doesn't matter.

prior to this update the isida did average in everything, and that was what made it fun and balanced at the same time.

 

On the other hand i disagree with firebird being the worst weapon., pretty laughable to be honest. An m1 was able to match an m2 isida before the nerf. The firebird was further buffed from the update. And trust me the afterburn does more than the freezing effect.

 

Also, freezes are just about as rare as isidas now

5) i'm not going to consider point 5.

6) regarding penetration.

 

Why would i be right behind a tank taking damage from freeze or firebird anyways? if i were an isida, id remain at a distance from the tank in front of me. and if you're talking about damaging groups of tanks, you can damage a tank behind your target if his hull is peeking out of the hull in front of you. it's pretty easy, considering your firebird is an aoe.

 

7) consider this scenario, firebird has no afterburn. now consider the reality, isida has negligible self heal, negligible damage, reduced healing.

 

Also, can you chill a little? This isn't a catfight, it's a discussion.

 

Also, i was talking about pre-2016 rebalance where the freeze had a longer charge oh come on i just shared the page detailing all the updates you JUST POSTED. They're unimportant so i wasn't discussing them.

Edited December 16, 2016 by yoboydw

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

1) enough said. Taking about 20 hp on average each second, yeah, it can't even finish off a Wasp after taking away 3/4 of the health. And please keep in mind all hp values were multipled by ten, so its 2 hp per second in the old system.

 

2) "freezes are very common" It's true, I play the game on multiple accounts, after the Freeze effect buff, many more freeze players. In addition, Freeze M3 was buffed to compensate for it being moved to unlock at Marshal.

 

3) reloading speed doesn't matter, short range weapons usually die after their first kill (if it's dm) and in team matches they can escape to reload.

if not, reread this point It does matter, the short-rangers run out of charge often, especially in small maps, and they cant hide either. In addition, the main point was that Isida can now sustain its healing beam for a whopping 9 seconds.

 

4) having the longest charge doesn't mean you get an increased dps now does it. It does. DPS is very dependent on charge length in reloading, if you are taking the time for more than a charge length. Consult http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=342767 for more information. 

 

5) i'm not going to consider point 5. 

6) regarding penetration.

 

Why would i be right behind a tank taking damage from freeze or firebird anyways? if i were an isida, id remain at a distance from the tank in front of me. and if you're talking about damaging groups of tanks, you can damage a tank behind your target if his hull is peeking out of the hull in front of you. it's pretty easy, considering your firebird is an aoe.  Yes, but know you have to be constantly thinking of the angle you have to be to get all the tanks in your cone angle, and not just spray everyone. It's a big nerf IMO to take away the penetration, and it was helpful in fighting many tanks.

 

7) consider this scenario, firebird has no afterburn. now consider the reality, isida has negligible self heal, negligible damage, reduced healing. But Isida still has the healing factor that sets it apart. Good Isida healers, at least in team-modes, don't need damage and self-heal. Those Isida players that bought Isida to attack won't be missed. Now, only the true healers will stay. If you don't like the current isida, then it's clearly not for you. Buy another turret. Firebird now has nothing that sets it apart from freeze, especially with the resurrected Freezing effect that actually works at the high ranks.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Also, i was talking about pre-2016 rebalance where the freeze had a longer charge I know, but now Isida has a longer charge than freeze. Before, freeze was mainly a druggers' weapon, a pure damage dealer, as the freezing effect was worthless against high-mod. hulls. oh come on i just shared the page detailing all the updates you JUST POSTED. They're unimportant so i wasn't discussing them. Oh yes, they are very important in fact.

The point is, Isida may be on the weaker side now but nowhere as weak as you make out. The action of importance now is to buff the stock firebird in some way. 

 

Isida was never intended to even be able to COMPETE with Firebird and Freeze. It should lose EVERY TIME to firebird and freeze.  I have used Isida m3, and consistently achieved first place in drugs-off battles.  There are always teammates to heal.

 

Regarding drugs-on battles, yes, it is a bit weak. 

 

Regarding DM's, read this idea: http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=339525&page=3&hl=%2Bgive+isida&do=findComment&comment=5886100

Edited December 16, 2016 by r_I_already_won0

[wolverine848 13,097]

The action of importance now is to buff the stock firebird in some way. 

 

You don't by any chance have a Firebird in your garage do you?  ;)

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

You don't by any chance have a Firebird in your garage do you?  ;)

Nope, not on this account ;), not even M0. 

Edited December 16, 2016 by r_I_already_won0

[yoboydw 0]

1) 20 damage per second. check your facts

2) in talking about m1 through m2 here. So far the turret being the most consistent throughout the m's is firebird as the m2 is much better than freeze m2. and since the recent updates, which i'm sure you're aware of, it isn't a prerequisite to get an m2 before an m3

3) well the isida needs the 9-second charge. like i said, after it heals it uses up its charge and it can't attack. Furthermore it takes a longer time to kill and heal now, so i'd say it's less efficient. Also it most probably dies before killing.

4) maybe if you encounter tanks that don't deal damage. or you can't hide at all. or you somehow survive 2 encounters with other short range weapons without dying. do you see now? this doesn't happen

5)

6) the point is. the cone angle is large enough.

7) firebird has afterburn, just as isida has heal. it's just nerfed. also, seriously now, isidas are primary targets to get rid off. that's why they do need damage

 

8) if i were you i'd probably simply say i have an m3 firebird on my other account rather than just log on on the other account and waste my precious time. And i find it funny because you already did make it clear

Edited December 16, 2016 by yoboydw

[yoboydw 0]

Look the isida has already LOST to them before the update. Freeze avoids the turret, firebird has damage. let it sink in. it has already lost.

 

the only issue is, right now, it loses to a lower-upgraded version of both weapons. and pretty much every other weapon except shaft and railgun

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

1) 20 damage per second. check your facts Actually, I am all about facts. Did you check out http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=342767 ?  A couple of friends and I figured and tested many of the game mechanics, and cleared up a lot of confusion about how the turrets work. For example, the *Damage Model B-2*, the Firebird afterburn calculation, etc. I said "on average" and I was making a generalization, in order to give you an idea. Theoretically, the most burning damage an M4 firebird could inflict would be 150 (but this wouldn't be reachable through a full charge, so it would only apply if a tank was under attack by two Firebirds) and it would, following a cooldown rate of .66/sec (this we also tested and confirmed), would decrease by 15 hp every second.

 

2) in talking about m2 here. So far the turret being the most consistent throughout the m's is firebird as the m2 is much better than freeze m2 Well, you just proved my point. Freeze M2 being much cheaper and earlier in availability, it's much more common than Firebird M2. Most players have a Freeze M2, bought on a sale, for Polygon CP, etc. Firebird M2 is much more expensive and atm not worth it.

 

3) well the isida needs the 9-second charge. like i said, after it heals it uses up its charge and it can't attack. Furthermore it takes a longer time to kill and heal now, so i'd say it's less efficient. Also it most probably dies before killing.   I agree it needs the 9-second charge, but why can't you accept the fact that Isida wasn't meant for killing? If you want a turret good at killing, get freeze or firebird. Isida is for a special class of players who want to heal. If you think that just and ONLY healing is boring, then Isida is not for you.

 

4) maybe if you encounter tanks that don't deal damage. or you can't hide at all. or you somehow survive 2 encounters with other short range weapons without dying. do you see now? this doesn't happen It does happen all the time. The biggest bane of the short-rangers is running out of charge ( I can't tell you how many times somebody would have been dead had it not been that I ran out of charge).  Also, keep in mind that short-rangers aren't the only enemies out there. ;)

 

6) the point is. the cone angle is large enough.  You misread. I acknowledge it is still easily done, but requires much more thought and position, giving them much less advantage and choice on attack angles.

 

7) firebird has afterburn, just as isida has heal. it's just nerfed. To the point where it doesn't have a valid effect anymore. It's like Isida's self-heal. It's still there, but is not affecting gameplay in any sizeable way. also, seriously now, isidas are primary targets to get rid off. that's why they do need damage Isidas would be the primary targets to get rid of whether they are strong or weak. Why would Isidas need damage?  Their function is to heal and ONLY to heal.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

8) if i were you i'd probably simply say i have an m3 firebird on my other account rather than just log on on the other account and waste my precious time. And i find it funny because you already did make it clear

I used to. I don't use that account anymore.

 

Look the isida has already LOST to them before the update. Freeze avoids the turret, firebird has damage. let it sink in. it has already lost.

 

the only issue is, right now, it loses to a lower-upgraded version of both weapons. and pretty much every other weapon except shaft and railgun

You're still missing the point. It SHOULD lose to those weapons. It is not designed to be an attacking or aggressive weapon.

 

BTW, before the update, Isida would beat freeze since the freezing effect was worthless, and beat Firebird through self-heal.  Keep in mind that most players didn't think Isida was normally OP, but the OP part was that Double Power doubled the self-heal, meaning the isida healed faster than it took damage. Also, Double Armor halved the damage it was taking, so it would self-heal faster than it took damage. It was especially a problem at the Gismo and Legend ranks, where you encountered M4 isidas with 50% self-heal.

 

Remember, the issue was the self-heal on drugs, not the self-heal itself.  However, drugs will not be reduced in power (but hopefully extended cooldowns :) ;) )

 

P.S. please calm down a bit....

Edited December 16, 2016 by r_I_already_won0

[yoboydw 0]

1,2) Thanks for the read. Anyway you're incorrect to have said that the freeze m2 is better just because of its availability at a lower rank. well it is more common at the lower ranks. not between captain -> marshal though. Firebird is more expensive but it offers a worthwhile upgrade. Getting a firebird m1->firebird m2 -> freeze m3 was hence the best course of action, i believe, especially taking into consideration that my target audience aka the person who last asked, is most likely to consider getting an m1/2 given his rank.

 

3) because the healing does not make up for the lost xp. and yes you said that before

4)i've used my isida m2 from 2014-15. it is important, only when you're drugging since you ususlly die after your first killl. Also you wouldn't be using charge when running towards long rangers

6) Lol i can't misread what you didn't type

7) so are you trying to say firebird isn't that bad? Also, no. isida's self heal affects gameplay very significantly. i do not dosagree with the proposed function of isida. but IF the developers want isida to become such a turret, it should be at least able to be good at healing

[yoboydw 0]

I used to. I don't use that account anymore.

 

 

You're still missing the point. It SHOULD lose to those weapons. It is not designed to be an attacking or aggressive weapon.

 

BTW, before the update, Isida would beat freeze since the freezing effect was worthless, and beat Firebird through self-heal. Keep in mind that most players didn't think Isida was normally OP, but the OP part was that Double Power doubled the self-heal, meaning the isida healed faster than it took damage. Also, Double Armor halved the damage it was taking, so it would self-heal faster than it took damage. It was especially a problem at the Gismo and Legend ranks, where you encountered M4 isidas with 50% self-heal.

 

Remember, the issue was the self-heal on drugs, not the self-heal itself. However, drugs will not be reduced in power (but hopefully extended cooldowns :) ;) )

 

P.S. please calm down a bit....

it's 3am i'm calm lol.

 

anyways the function of isida was not to be a healer. "was". Whether it is now is not for you or i to decide. But if it is determined to be a healing turret it should be a healing turret and just that, and players should be able to earn just as much from healing as with damaging.

 

The isida, as a healing turret, isn't good either as

1) it cannot out-heal turrets

2) on maps with fewer tanks it does not work well enough

3) it is a weapon accessible to everyone and yet it cannot qualify for dm, one of the primary gamemodes

4) it gets killed easily without putting up a fight. it's almost as if the isida is just to stall time. A tank needs to do much more than that

Edited December 16, 2016 by yoboydw

[Benefactor 6,888]

The devs should have made it so that DD only increases the healing/damaging part but not increase the self-healing part.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

1,2) Thanks for the read. THank you. :)

 

Anyway you're incorrect to have said that the freeze m2 is better just because of its availability at a lower rank. well it is more common at the lower ranks. not between captain -> marshal though. Firebird is more expensive but it offers a worthwhile upgrade. Getting a firebird m1->firebird m2 -> freeze m3 was hence the best course of action, i believe, especially taking into consideration that my target audience aka the person who last asked, is most likely to consider getting an m1/2 given his rank. Well,  I meant that it is more popular. Many players with Freeze M2 don't have it as their main turret, but the players with Fire M2 have it as part of their primary combo.

 

3) because the healing does not make up for the lost xp. and yes you said that before Well, now Isida isn't an xp grinder, just a normal turret.

 

4)i've used my isida m2 from 2014-15. The thing is, your M2 didn't have much self-heal compared to the 50% of M4. it is important, only when you're

 

drugging since you ususlly die after your first killl. Also you wouldn't be using charge when running towards long rangers You're still missing the point. You shouldn't be running toward long-rangers or trying to kill others. You should be looking for teammates and healing them. 

6) Lol i can't misread what you didn't type

7) so are you trying to say firebird isn't that bad? Also, no. isida's self heal affects gameplay very significantly. i do not dosagree with the proposed function of isida. but IF the developers want isida to become such a turret, it should be at least able to be good at healing The reason is, the developers want people to use more Repair Kit supplies, so they "spread" Isida's healing over a longer charge. 

[yoboydw 0]

The devs should have made it so that DD only increases the healing/damaging part but not increase the self-healing part.

i think the issue was with isidas topping leaderboards. thunder m3's railgun m3's and shaft m3's one shot turrets all the time, and isida's range is already a handicap. imo all turrets on DD are OP.

 

isidas gain xp for healing team mates, and without drugs and isida can rise to the top of the leaderboard quite easily. the devs claim that the purpose of giving xp is to encourage players to use the healing feature, and that is something i can agree with. but reducing the damage output and healing rate in order to decrease xp in my opinion is not a solution to the problem. the fact is, in team battles, the isida supports its team mates by healing. without the heal, it's just a weaker short range turret without any freeze or firebird effects (even pre nerf it was weaker, but just a little bit). healing benefits the team. So i believe that decreasing the xp given through healing will not impact the players' decision to heal others.

[yoboydw 0]

 

1,2) Thanks for the read. THank you. :)

 

Anyway you're incorrect to have said that the freeze m2 is better just because of its availability at a lower rank. well it is more common at the lower ranks. not between captain -> marshal though. Firebird is more expensive but it offers a worthwhile upgrade. Getting a firebird m1->firebird m2 -> freeze m3 was hence the best course of action, i believe, especially taking into consideration that my target audience aka the person who last asked, is most likely to consider getting an m1/2 given his rank. Well,  I meant that it is more popular. Many players with Freeze M2 don't have it as their main turret, but the players with Fire M2 have it as part of their primary combo.

3) because the healing does not make up for the lost xp. and yes you said that before Well, now Isida isn't an xp grinder, just a normal turret.

 

4)i've used my isida m2 from 2014-15. The thing is, your M2 didn't have much self-heal compared to the 50% of M4. it is important, only when you're

 

drugging since you ususlly die after your first killl. Also you wouldn't be using charge when running towards long rangers You're still missing the point. You shouldn't be running toward long-rangers or trying to kill others. You should be looking for teammates and healing them. 

 

6) Lol i can't misread what you didn't type

7) so are you trying to say firebird isn't that bad? Also, no. isida's self heal affects gameplay very significantly. i do not dosagree with the proposed function of isida. but IF the developers want isida to become such a turret, it should be at least able to be good at healing The reason is, the developers want people to use more Repair Kit supplies, so they "spread" Isida's healing over a longer charge. 

 

2) i think i misunderstood. it is more popular when freeze m2 is made available, but as the ranks progress firebirds become more often seen.

 

3) yeah, but it gives less than the normal turret.

4) then shouldn't they have dealt with m3-4, like reducing the range or keeping the range at 35%?

5) of course i would, its just jay you brought up long rangers. anyways my point is the versatility of the isida is why people play isida. it's not just a healer; it deals damage as well. Also, what the turret is supposed to do, eg a promarility healing turret, is up to the devs. since the isida does not do well in any aspect, healing or damaging, id say that there is no clear function of the isida

6) yeah.. thing is it makes it unbalanced

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

^

Here's the thing that made Isida seem so OP:

 

1. Everyone played on small maps. Naturally a short-ranger like Isida will be OP on maps like Noise. It should be that way. If people played on more varied maps, including larger sizes (the battle update helped this a bit) it would seem as OP.

 

2. Drugs, drugs, and more drugs.  Here's what would happen to a whole team when a single drugged Isida came close: It would go to one person, losing health while approaching. Then it would heal itself back up faster than the guy could do damage, back to full health. It would move on to the next person, sucking all the hp out and healing itself back to full health along the way. It was indestructible, unstoppable, inescapable.  50% self-heal wasn't OP. But 100% self-heal was just unfair, there's no other word for it.

Edited December 16, 2016 by r_I_already_won0

[yoboydw 0]

Alright good night, or morning lol. going to bed

Edited December 16, 2016 by yoboydw

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Alright good night, or morning lol. going to bed

Lol it's about 2:25 p.m. here. :lol:

[yoboydw 0]

Here's the thing that made Isida seem so OP:

 

1. Everyone played on small maps. Naturally a short-ranger like Isida will be OP on maps like Noise. It should be that way. If people played on more varied maps, including larger sizes (the battle update helped this a bit) it would seem as OP.

 

2. Drugs, drugs, and more drugs. Here's what would happen to a whole team when a single drugged Isida came close: It would go to one person, losing health while approaching. Then it would heal itself back up faster than the guy could do damage, back to full health. It would move on to the next person, sucking all the hp out and healing itself back to full health along the way. It was indestructible, unstoppable, inescapable. 50% self-heal wasn't OP. But 100% self-heal was just unfair, there's no other word for it.

 

 

yes i agree with that. Perhaps they shouldn't have made the self heal an upgradeable feature. Damage increases with M level anways.

 

But they went too far with 10%

 

lol it's 3:26am

Edited December 16, 2016 by yoboydw

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

yes i agree with that. Perhaps they shouldn't have made the self heal an upgradeable feature. Damage increases with M level anways. Yes, it's a question of what kind of equation the upgrade gives in terms of power increase. Isida's is the biggest, with 4 factors in there affecting it, it's a quartic equation.

 

But they went too far with 10% I agree.

 

lol it's 3:26am Then get some sleep instead of being on the forum :lol:

[robbie56 2,403]

So how is Isida these days? Is it still good or they they nerf it?

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

So how is Isida these days? Is it still good or they they nerf it?

After the self-heal cancellation nerf :

 

In team battles, it is still very good and can top the leaderboard easily.

 

In DMs, you get massacred.

Edited December 17, 2016 by r_I_already_won0

[robbie56 2,403]

After the self-heal cancellation nerf :

 

In team battles, it is still very good and can top the leaderboard easily.

 

In DMs, you get massacred.

IMO it was never good in dm's tho

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

IMO it was never good in dm's tho

er....haha :unsure:

[filipiar 46]

What I do not understand is that they wanted to make from invulnerable drug addicted killing machine a team healer. So they cut the self heal. Ok, seems legit. But then, they increased the damage. I would rather appreciate slightly higher self-heal and lower damage.