Let's Discuss Isida!

[wolverine848 13,097]

Ok, they nerfed railgun, and that's my most used weapon. I actually like my new railgun. And yeah railgun does require skill to use. Check my profile if you don't believe me, railgun is my most used. They nerfed that but you don't see me complaining about it. Do you?

And yeah sounds fair :)

They cut your damage in half (or more)?  Are you sure?

 

Ps... you gained a faster reload time as you mention above.  What did Isida gain for losing self-heal, healing and range?

[wolverine848 13,097]

The same damage, and with firebird you will always, always, ALWAYS die afterward unless you have two isidas.  Freeze you can turn your turret and hull and hit it with firebird,  Any other turrets you can stay out of it's range. Okay, maybe the damage is a bit OP, but the freeze effect is perfectly balanced and effective.

I stand corrected - listed std damage is equal, but...

 

Was playing in Noise last night vs tankers that had Freeze M3 (+ ?).  It was killing in seconds. Tanks could not escape. It was ugly...

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

I stand corrected - listed std damage is equal, but...

 

Was playing in Noise last night vs tankers that had Freeze M3 (+ ?).  It was killing in seconds. Tanks could not escape. It was ugly...

I feel like we're carrying on this argument in 3 different topics lol...

 

Okay, tanks cannot escape freeze once it gets close, but firebird even if you do escape it you die anyway.  

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

Okay, tanks cannot escape freeze once it gets close, but firebird even if you do escape it you die anyway.  

Can't argue that...  ;)

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Can't argue that...  ;)

The real problem is that Tanki doesn't reward players for playing on larger maps-there has to be like an increased battle fund for larger maps.

 

If more people played in Rio, Serpuchov, Berlin, Dusseldorf, Kungur, Lost Temple, they wouldn't complain that freeze is OP. It would be like any other turret, with it's advantages and disadvantages. Sure, it's OP in small maps, but why does everyone play in small maps then if they don't like freeze being OP?

[wolverine848 13,097]

The real problem is that Tanki doesn't reward players for playing on larger maps-there has to be like an increased battle fund for larger maps.

 

If more people played in Rio, Serpuchov, Berlin, Dusseldorf, Kungur, Lost Temple, they wouldn't complain that freeze is OP. It would be like any other turret, with it's advantages and disadvantages. Sure, it's OP in small maps, but why does everyone play in small maps then if they don't like freeze being OP?

I agree. takes loner to cap in large maps and with less contact with other tanks due to distances, the battle fund is not high enough. Everyone wants crystals and thus the Polygon / Noise abbatoirs.  Spawn-kill-die. Rinse. Repeat.

[dan146_tanker 770]

They cut your damage in half (or more)?  Are you sure?

 

Ps... you gained a faster reload time as you mention above.  What did Isida gain for losing self-heal, healing and range?

It takes 3 shots to kill hornet M3. Isida already has healing. Is that not good enough? Can rail heal? Isida can earn a lot of XP in battles 'cause of its healing and killing. Sorry, that now it got slightly​ reduced. Is it my fault? Sorry, but lots of people agreed that isida was OP. I've tried isida M1 on my other account @dan146_tanki. It got less health when killing. That is all. I've even tried M0 on this account. Its not even that weak. I don't know what your saying about it being UP. It is balanced. Isida didn't need to gain anything. The devs made the update to put isida on the same level as other turrets, k?

[wolverine848 13,097]

It takes 3 shots to kill hornet M3. Isida already has healing. Is that not good enough? Can rail heal? Isida can earn a lot of XP in battles 'cause of its healing and killing. Sorry, that now it got slightly​ reduced. Is it my fault? Sorry, but lots of people agreed that isida was OP. I've tried isida M1 on my other account @dan146_tanki. It got less health when killing. That is all. I've even tried M0 on this account. Its not even that weak. I don't know what your saying about it being UP. It is balanced. Isida didn't need to gain anything. The devs made the update to put isida on the same level as other turrets, k?

Of course it's not your fault... or... is it... ?  :ph34r:

 

Rail can't heal itself - but now neither can isida. The 10% heal = nothing.  

I know this as I've used my M3 while being damaged and the health bar barely moves at all.

If I damage opponent for 523 damage I gain back 52 health. in 4 seconds = 208.  During that 4 seconds a rail will do 2700 damage.

Against a Firebird it's even worse.

 

I never asked for Isida to "gain anything". I never implied it did not need to be tweaked.

 

The fact is the self-healing was reduced by 80%. That's huge.  

Lowering the self-heal from 50% down to 30% or even 25% would have been more reasonable.

[dan146_tanker 770]

Of course it's not your fault... or... is it... ?  :ph34r:

 

Rail can't heal itself - but now neither can isida. The 10% heal = nothing.  

I know this as I've used my M3 while being damaged and the health bar barely moves at all.

If I damage opponent for 523 damage I gain back 52 health. in 4 seconds = 208.  During that 4 seconds a rail will do 2700 damage.

Against a Firebird it's even worse.

 

I never asked for Isida to "gain anything". I never implied it did not need to be tweaked.

 

The fact is the self-healing was reduced by 80%. That's huge.  

Lowering the self-heal from 50% down to 30% or even 25% would have been more reasonable.

The thing is, the reason why isida was OP was because of its self healing. You have a railgun. You shoot isida. Isida just replenishes health by taking yours and you die. Then it goes to the next person. With isida to be healed all you had to do was kill someone. It was the vampire turret, there was and still is a kit called vampire kit. But now that it has less self healing, it becomes weaker. It can't just eat your life away and go to the next victim. You can easily kill it, compared to before. If your a twins than you will never kill isida, despite your rapid fire. It can just eat your life away leaving you empty (dead). So now it won't get any extra life it doesn't deserve. Instead it will fight fair and not only fire will be able to kill isida.

[wolverine848 13,097]

The thing is, the reason why isida was OP was because of its self healing. You have a railgun. You shoot isida. Isida just replenishes health by taking yours and you die. Then it goes to the next person. With isida to be healed all you had to do was kill someone. It was the vampire turret, there was and still is a kit called vampire kit. But now that it has less self healing, it becomes weaker. It can't just eat your life away and go to the next victim. You can easily kill it, compared to before. If your a twins than you will never kill isida, despite your rapid fire. It can just eat your life away leaving you empty (dead). So now it won't get any extra life it doesn't deserve. Instead it will fight fair and not only fire will be able to kill isida.

All of these details with twins vs isida are valid points.

 

But consider...

The twins can damage isida before it gets in range of it's vampire - sometimes killing it without a fight back.

Twins never run out of ammo. Isida can suck life for a limited time. then it is helpless.

[dan146_tanker 770]

All of these details with twins vs isida are valid points.

 

But consider...

The twins can damage isida before it gets in range of it's vampire - sometimes killing it without a fight back.

Twins never run out of ammo. Isida can suck life for a limited time. then it is helpless.

Which is the exact reason why twins got nerfed too.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

It takes 3 shots to kill hornet M3. Isida already has healing. Is that not good enough? Can rail heal? Isida can earn a lot of XP in battles 'cause of its healing and killing. Sorry, that now it got slightly​ reduced. Is it my fault? Sorry, but lots of people agreed that isida was OP. I've tried isida M1 on my other account @dan146_tanki. It got less health when killing. That is all. I've even tried M0 on this account. Its not even that weak. I don't know what your saying about it being UP. It is balanced. Isida didn't need to gain anything. The devs made the update to put isida on the same level as other turrets, k?

First things first, Isida is not on the same level as the other turrets.  It's currently considered the weakest turret in the game,.  It's not balanced.  Of course isida was OP before, everyone knows that, but the conclusion you draw from that is not to just take away the self-healing completely.

It didn't just get slightly reduced, it got a major nerf in basically every aspect.  Healing is down, damage is down, self-heal is worthless, range is down, and on top of all that the price is really expensive now.  Isidas are now considered easy kills and just cannon fodder for any other turret.  And even if you're right, Tanki should have at least given isida users a switch option.  Many players invested time and money into this turret solely because of the self-heal- and now they are cheated.

 

The thing is, the reason why isida was OP was because of its self healing. You have a railgun. You shoot isida. Isida just replenishes health by taking yours and you die. Then it goes to the next person. With isida to be healed all you had to do was kill someone. It was the vampire turret, there was and still is a kit called vampire kit. But now that it has less self healing, it becomes weaker. It can't just eat your life away and go to the next victim. You can easily kill it, compared to before. If your a twins than you will never kill isida, despite your rapid fire. It can just eat your life away leaving you empty (dead). So now it won't get any extra life it doesn't deserve. Instead it will fight fair and not only fire will be able to kill isida.

Pre-update a twins user was easily able to kill an isida user.  Just by backing away.  Everyone agreed that isida was OP because of it's self-healing, but that doesn't mean you should take it away completely.  You should tweak it so it;s balanced.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

The thing is, the reason why isida was OP was because of its self healing.

Without drugs, pre balance:

- an Isida could compete against other tanks almost as good as fire and freeze could. Selfhealing was no problem ,as the damage output was way lower then fire or freeze. The kill just took longer, as the damge output of Isida was lower, but the Isida could keep up by healing itself a little (50% are not way overpwoered if you consider the low damage output)

 

With drugs, on DP:

- an Isida could do twice the damage... but it would also heal itself twice as fast. As soon as it fired on someone, it left the challenge with almost full health.

 

conclusion

- self healing is not a problem.. to have it based on the double damage is the problem.

Edited October 24, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

It takes 3 shots to kill hornet M3. Isida already has healing. Is that not good enough? Can rail heal?

Hmm. Did you compare an M2 Rail vs an M3 Hornet? Or have I got you wrong?

 

An M3 Rail takes in avg. 2 shots to kill an M3 IsidaHornet (90+ % of all cases according to tanki.. I tend to believe them there).

An M3 rail has a full reload cycle of 4,3 seconds. The Isida takes.. 3,xx Seconds to kill that RailHornet

 

This means, if the rail delivers the first hit aprox 1,3 second before the Isida can start fireing, then the RailHornet will survive.

USually it works great. But no drugs, as said.

 

If the rail sees the Isida very late, the rail should run to the next house driving backwards while shooting at the isida during its retreat. Even if the Isida catches the rail, the edge of the house will interrupt the Isida's damage dealing. Then the railer chases the Isida around the house to reload, and delivers the killshot. Nothing hard.

The biggest mistakes railers make in this situation, is to stand firm, aim and shoot - instead of retreating instantly. Any yes, driving backwards on the map you play is hard in the beginning.. but truely cruicial.

 

And yes, there are houses. Becuase if there are none, then there is no reason why the Isida was spotted late.

If the railer see's the Isida too late on semi-open grounds, then it is his own fault (wrong position, bad sight, no use of camera, not taken care of environment - or all of them).

And once the closeranger worked it's way cloeup undetected, he has to have the kill advantage. Else noone would use closerangers.. truely noone.

Edited October 24, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Fact is a railgunner with any amount of skill could beat an isida one-on-one in any map larger than island, unless the isida drugs or picks up everything.

[dan146_tanker 770]

First things first, Isida is not on the same level as the other turrets.  It's currently considered the weakest turret in the game,.  It's not balanced.  Of course isida was OP before, everyone knows that, but the conclusion you draw from that is not to just take away the self-healing completely.

It didn't just get slightly reduced, it got a major nerf in basically every aspect.  Healing is down, damage is down, self-heal is worthless, range is down, and on top of all that the price is really expensive now.  Isidas are now considered easy kills and just cannon fodder for any other turret.  And even if you're right, Tanki should have at least given isida users a switch option.  Many players invested time and money into this turret solely because of the self-heal- and now they are cheated.

 

Pre-update a twins user was easily able to kill an isida user.  Just by backing away.  Everyone agreed that isida was OP because of it's self-healing, but that doesn't mean you should take it away completely.  You should tweak it so it;s balanced.

Isida was tweaked. This was the only the devs could tweak it. I mean how would you have lowered isida to the same level as other turrets? Its true that a twins could just shoot and back away, but its also true that an isida could just get wasp. Wasp is too fast and most twin users use medium to heavy hulls. Isida could just run and chase the twins until it died. It wouldn't take very long for the twins to die if the isida was following it.

Its self healing got reduced and so did its reloading. But its damage is still the same as before.

 

 

Without drugs, pre balance:

- an Isida could compete against other tanks almost as good as fire and freeze could. Selfhealing was no problem ,as the damage output was way lower then fire or freeze. The kill just took longer, as the damge output of Isida was lower, but the Isida could keep up by healing itself a little (50% are not way overpwoered if you consider the low damage output)

 

With drugs, on DP:

- an Isida could do twice the damage... but it would also heal itself twice as fast. As soon as it fired on someone, it left the challenge with almost full health.

 

conclusion

- self healing is not a problem.. to have it based on the double damage is the problem.

So what if there's an isida with hunter M1? The hunter is strong enough but now the isida can just heal itself by eating away the enemy life. Railgun, thunder, would they be able to destroy isida?

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Isida was tweaked. This was the only the devs could tweak it. I mean how would you have lowered isida to the same level as other turrets? Its true that a twins could just shoot and back away, but its also true that an isida could just get wasp. Wasp is too fast and most twin users use medium to heavy hulls. Isida could just run and chase the twins until it died. It wouldn't take very long for the twins to die if the isida was following it.

Its self healing got reduced and so did its reloading. But its damage is still the same as before.

 

 

So what if there's an isida with hunter M1? The hunter is strong enough but now the isida can just heal itself by eating away the enemy life. Railgun, thunder, would they be able to destroy isida?

No, the damage is much less, look at the wiki article for the new balance changes.  It's less than the pre-balance vulcan.  It's less than 3/4 the damage per second of freeze and firebird.  Personally, i don't care that the damage was reduced, but I'm just sayin'. Any twins user could easily back away long enough to take a big chunk of the isida's health out.  EVEN if the isida is using a wasp or hornet, by the time the isida got close it would lose to the twins in touching combat.

 

Give me solid evidence to claim that isida is on the same level as the other turrets.  That is not true.  There is not ONE turret in the game it stands a chance against, not even shaft using arcade mode.

 

 

 

2.Well if the isida got close, no, that's the point of a melee turret.  But a skilled rail/smoky/thunder could just keep their distance..  And Hunter isn't that fast.

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

2.Well if the isida got close, no, that's the point of a melee turret.  But a skilled rail/smoky/thunder could just keep their distance..  And Hunter isn't that fast.

Well said.  An isida within range of a "long range" turret should be able to beat it, all other things being equal. That's how it works - at it's basics the combat is rock-paper-scissors.

 

Also, as a short-range turret an Isida should be able to compete against other short-range turrets. However against Firebird, Freeze and even Hammer it does not fare well at all.

 

When others state the Isida should (just?) be a support turret they really pigeon-hole it.  That means it can only ever do well in Team games, and it must have team members nearby to heal.  On teams of 2-3 how the heck is it gonna have enough people to heal? On a team with wasps that are running around it would look absolutely stupid for an Isida to chase around team-mates to heal. LMAO.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Well said.  An isida within range of a "long range" turret should be able to beat it, all other things being equal. That's how it works - at it's basics the combat is rock-paper-scissors.

 

Also, as a short-range turret an Isida should be able to compete against other short-range turrets. However against Firebird, Freeze and even Hammer it does not fare well at all.

 

When others state the Isida should (just?) be a support turret they really pigeon-hole it.  That means it can only ever do well in Team games, and it must have team members nearby to heal.  On teams of 2-3 how the heck is it gonna have enough people to heal? On a team with wasps that are running around it would look absolutely stupid for an Isida to chase around team-mates to heal. LMAO.

That's true.  And yet we see even smoky beats isida at close range.  I posted something on the ideas and suggestions subforum that said that isida should get 25% self-healing only in DMs.  I feel this would be fair to isida users when they play DM's for daily missions or tournaments or such.  In team battles isida IMO doesn't need a buff, only in DM's.  Sometimes isida can be mounted on heavier hulls when the base is really small, like the blue one in noise, but yes, generally, isida needs a light hull.  This means that the isida will be a very easy kill, and since everyone goes for them anyway, they will die very quickly.  To balance this out, we had the self-healing.  Now we don't even have that.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

I do not support the 25% just for DM thing..

in pro battles without supplies it would not be able to play an attack support role, and isidas will find themselfes reduced to base-camping healers.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

I do not support the 25% just for DM thing..

in pro battles without supplies it would not be able to play an attack support role, and isidas will find themselfes reduced to base-camping healers.

But the main point is to heal, and you can't be healing and self-healing at the same time.  So it will still be able to play attack support, because even with 50% self-heal the goal is for it to spend all it's energy healing anyway.  However, in DM's there's nobody to heal.

[Rad-Powered 1,694]

isida is obsolete now. nerfed to the ground

[wolverine848 13,097]

But the main point is to heal, and you can't be healing and self-healing at the same time.  So it will still be able to play attack support, because even with 50% self-heal the goal is for it to spend all it's energy healing anyway.  However, in DM's there's nobody to heal.

You can heal and self-heal in a battle. Well... before the nerf anyway.

Heal tanks at your base. If opponents come after your flag when you are there you can attack and destroy them, keeping yourself alive as you do this. been the way I played ever since I picked up M2.

Also jump into an assault on base to grab flag. Heal yourself as you kill defender and hopefully you have picked up enough life to survive the return trip to base.

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

So what if there's an isida with hunter M1? The hunter is strong enough but now the isida can just heal itself by eating away the enemy life. Railgun, thunder, would they be able to destroy isida?

If they hit it from a distance first - weakening it - yes. Isida is not self-healing as it approaches - only when it attacks.

 

Same basic outcome from a firebird or a freeze. That thunder or rail is in a tough spot if any short-range turret gets close. Long range need to kill them from a distance while short-range need to survive long enough to get close.

 

50% self-heal was obviously too much.  10% self-heal has obviously gone way too far.  Meet in the middle ~ 25% or 30% and most will be satisfied.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

You can heal and self-heal in a battle. Well... before the nerf anyway.

Heal tanks at your base. If opponents come after your flag when you are there you can attack and destroy them, keeping yourself alive as you do this. been the way I played ever since I picked up M2.

Also jump into an assault on base to grab flag. Heal yourself as you kill defender and hopefully you have picked up enough life to survive the return trip to base.

If you single-handedly suck all the hp all of a titan, you will only get 1/5 of a hornet's hp back.  So that option is out of the question.