Let's Discuss Isida!

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

^ *cough* alteration *cough* :P

[filipiar 46]

^ Oh, I almost forgot. ***alteration***

[Amagi 1,728]

IMO it was never good in dm's tho

Oh my sweet summer child, you should've seen what the monstrosity that is a drugging M4 Isida/Viking can do in Polygon DMs pre-nerf.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Stinger911

[wolverine848 13,097]

Oh my sweet summer child, you should've seen what the monstrosity that is a drugging M4 Isida/Viking can do in Polygon DMs pre-nerf.

Sadly I was too low a rank to experience those days.  Now my medic comes out when I need "experience" in battle modes.

 

What is the cost of the Isida self-heal Alteration in terms of crystals and ability loss?

[filipiar 46]

^Alteration like that doesn't exist, at least not yet...

[NewbieCake 3,067]

I am hoping for the new alterations before the sales. Some of the turrets (Railgun and Isida) can really use them.

[Ducalio 0]

New alteration, if I understand correctly, means a bit more self-heal and firing time at the expense of damage and healing.

 

- energy capacity +4 secs

- damage -30%

- healing -15%

- self-heal doubled

 

Nooooow..... doubling the self-heal of a damage rate reduced by 30% means an overall self-heal rate of 14% when compared to the original DPS rate.

 

And the tank is only able to hit for 70% of previous and heal at 85%

 

What a load of pish.

[AliceTreatPU 92]

I hope there was an alteration that remove the heal feature, changing it to damage and range,

so it would more competitive in DM

Edited December 26, 2016 by AliceTreatPU

[Tani_S 736]

Maybe that will come with the M3 alteration. The M2 alt. focuses on healing power.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

So how is Isida these days? Is it still good or they they nerf it?

It is fantastic if you know how to use it and if you undertand the importance of a good healer to team battles.

 

If you just want to kill things in DM and claim ubernicity ...  Eh, you can makeit work for that too.  But you have to know how to leverage its advantages.

 

Most peeps here will tell you it sux though.  [shrug]

[LittleWillie 3,199]

After the self-heal cancellation nerf :

 

In team battles, it is still very good and can top the leaderboard easily.

 

In DMs, you get massacred.

In DMs, I am never massacred but have been called a "hacker" due the smoking tank hulks left in my wake. That was pretty cool. :ph34r:

Edited December 26, 2016 by LittleWillie

[LittleWillie 3,199]

New alteration, if I understand correctly, means a bit more self-heal and firing time at the expense of damage and healing.

 

- energy capacity +4 secs

- damage -30%

- healing -15%

- self-heal doubled

 

Nooooow..... doubling the self-heal of a damage rate reduced by 30% means an overall self-heal rate of 14% when compared to the original DPS rate.

 

And the tank is only able to hit for 70% of previous and heal at 85%

 

What a load of pish.

Almost right.  You forgot the extended firing time.  That means the alteration can deliver 98% of the total damage as compared to the non-altered Isida - on one charge.  But it takes 40% longer to do so.   But the precioussssss the self-heal is doubled!!!

 

Since these things are on slae later and since Tani has done a hell of a lot of work on the game this quarter I ploped down $2 to rent the Isida alterations. You can keep them.  

 

The wider arc almost never aids my aim. But I am hurt by the shorter range all the time. It's only for ubernoobs who never learn to aim and move. 

 

As for the self-heal boost, you can keep it.  I save more live by actually killing my opponent in 8 seconds than I do not killing him in 11 thus giving him time to kill me.

 

I am anew player who started this summer. I got only a taste of the Isida self-heal on DD but even I could see how it would get much worse as I ranked up. I converted frm Firebird about the time the Isida was re-done. So I learned on the current turret. I advise everyone to put aside their pre-conceptions and try to use the new turret for what ti does well.

 

No loss of damage over range

Long firing time.

You know exactly when your beam is hitting and when it is not.

Quiet ans sneaky; enemies often take a second or two to realize they are being eaten.

Belive it or not is still does self-heal .. enough to let you survive if not at full heth.

 

On top of all that it heals your teammates! imagine that.  It might actually improve your firepower and survival to keep an allied tank fighting instead of just you. No one else has that option, only Isida.

 

Isida rocks.   :)  :)  :) 

Edited December 26, 2016 by LittleWillie

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Almost right.  You forgot the extended firing time.  That means the alteration can deliver 98% of the non-altered Isida on one charge.  But it takes 40% longer to do so.   But the precioussssss the self-heal is doubled!!!

Still, self-heal is a percentage of the attacking damage. If they are going to reduce the damage like that I would like to see the self-heal tripled at least.:)

Did someone say precioussssssssss???? :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r: 

 

It's only for ubernoobs who never learn to aim and move. 

What are ubernoobs? :unsure:  :wacko:

:mellow:

:lol:

[LittleWillie 3,199]

 

Almost right.  You forgot the extended firing time.  That means the alteration can deliver 98% of the non-altered Isida on one charge.  But it takes 40% longer to do so.   But the precioussssss the self-heal is doubled!!!

Still, self-heal is a percentage of the attacking damage. If they are going to reduce the damage like that I would like to see the self-heal tripled at least. :)

Did someone say precioussssssssss???? :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r: 

 

It's only for ubernoobs who never learn to aim and move. 

What are ubernoobs? :unsure:  :wacko:

:mellow:

:lol:

 

After my limited testing I'd say the self-heal on alteration could possibly go from 20% to 25%. Perhaps. i made the effort to play w/o any drugs other than map pickups.  The spamming DD isida driver might be an issue at 25% or 30%.  [shrug] Too early to say.

 

As for ubernoobers, as mentioned they are those players who cannot or refuse to adapt to changing situations. Forever a noob.

 

Don't be an ubernoober. When your approach isn't working, try something new.  :wacko:

Edited December 27, 2016 by LittleWillie

[MentallyDeranged 740]

I'm no.1 hater of isida ,proudly :P When isida damage me it's like a mosquito drinks my blood ,and answer is

 

https://goo.gl/images/1Kl6NG

[AliceTreatPU 92]

I'm no.1 hater of isida ,proudly :P When isida damage me it's like a mosquito drinks my blood ,and answer is

 

https://goo.gl/images/1Kl6NG

But i bet when you damaged and see isida teammates you will like.

 

https://goo.gl/Xj3Zzs

 

:D

[MentallyDeranged 740]

But i bet when you damaged and see isida teammates you will like.

 

https://goo.gl/Xj3Zzs

 

:D

:D :D :D

[AliceTreatPU 92]

:D :D :D

Nice response :)

[wolverine848 13,097]

After my limited testing I'd say the self-heal on alteration could possibly go from 20% to 25%. Perhaps. i made the effort to play w/o any drugs other than map pickups.  The spamming DD isida driver might be an issue at 25% or 30%.  [shrug] Too early to say.

 

As for ubernoobers, as mentioned they are those players who cannot or refuse to adapt to changing situations. Forever a noob.

 

Don't be an ubernoober. When your approach isn't working, try something new.  :wacko:

The thing is ... it's not just either ... or.... Someone who just wants to heal or someone who wants to be uber-killer.

 

I get the impression (I may be wrong so my apologies if so) but most of your experience with isida is with supplies - DD.

At M3 and above, without supplies, an isida can't kill fast enough - and either dies or loses to kill-steals.

 

The Devs should not base all their revisions on one situation - drugging.  If they continue that way the Striker will get nerfed big time.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

as I'm ill at the moment, I can't focus to play xp/bp.. so I tried my Titan Twins in poly cp (low-brainer) :p

 

I saw two Isidas the whole day. And I played a lot yesterday.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

The thing is ... it's not just either ... or.... Someone who just wants to heal or someone who wants to be uber-killer.

 

I get the impression (I may be wrong so my apologies if so) but most of your experience with isida is with supplies - DD.

At M3 and above, without supplies, an isida can't kill fast enough - and either dies or loses to kill-steals.

 

The Devs should not base all their revisions on one situation - drugging.  If they continue that way the Striker will get nerfed big time.

Do you mean I drug heavily?  You tell me. In the past six weeks since I bought my Isida/Hornet m2 kit I've used:

 

  73 RK  which is 18 fewer than received from missions

 

328 DA  18 fewer than missions

 

227  DD exactly the amount form missions

 

223  SU 85 fewer than from missions

 

325 MINES 33 more than from missions

 

1,176 used out of  1,264 received or 93^ of mission income used

 

 

72,260 exp >>> 61.4 exp earned per Supply used

 

3,353 kills

 

3,284 deaths (1.02 K/D)

 

6,637 Total >>> 5,64 destructions per supply used

 

 

As far as "can't kill fast enough" .. fast enough for what?  Are you talking about DM only? 

 

You say the dev should not base all the decsiosns on the dugged performance. Yet I hear that is a worse problem in high levels than mid levels. If Isidas are not doing as well as they are in mid levels maybe the problem is not drugging at the midlevels?  Maybe the problem is the greater amount of drugging at the end-game stage? I would wager there are more data collected from drugfest meatgrinders than there are from players like me.  It is not my playstyle that is shaping design decisions. There are not enough of me to count.

 

I wil agree Isida is probably the hardest turret tl play at expert level. Isida players are faced with an entire decision set no other turret faces. Sometimes the optimum move is to heal your teammate. Sometimes it is to kill the enemy. But the turret is fine it just cannot be used in the simplistic manner it was with the massive self-heal.

 

Exactly what skill is celebrated in the big self-heal scenario. In my memory the Isida would see me, derive straight at me, never turn it's turret, just come park in front of my hull and beam me. This gave that player ample time to press the 2, 3, 4 and 1 key as needed.

 

And this is what some people want back, eh?

Edited December 31, 2016 by LittleWillie

[wolverine848 13,097]

Do you mean I drug heavily?  You tell me. In the past six weeks since I bought my Isida/Hornet m2 kit I've used:

 

  73 RK  which is 18 fewer than received from missions

 

328 DA  18 fewer than missions

 

227  DD exactly the amount form missions

 

223  SU 85 fewer than from missions

 

325 MINES 33 more than from missions

 

1,176 used out of  1,264 received or 93^ of mission income used

 

 

72,260 exp >>> 61.4 exp earned per Supply used

 

3,353 kills

 

3,284 deaths (1.02 K/D)

 

6,637 Total >>> 5,64 destructions per supply used

 

 

As far as "can't kill fast enough" .. fast enough for what?  Are you talking about DM only? 

 

You say the dev should not base all the decsiosns on the dugged performance. Yet I hear that is a worse problem in high levels than mid levels. If Isidas are not doing as well as they are in mid levels maybe the problem is not drugging at the midlevels?  Maybe the problem is the greater amount of drugging at the end-game stage? I would wager there are more data collected from drugfest meatgrinders than there are from players like me.  It is not my playstyle that is shaping design decisions. There are not enough of me to count.

 

I wil agree Isida is probably the hardest turret tl play at expert level. Isida players are faced with an entire decision set no other turret faces. Sometimes the optimum move is to heal your teammate. Sometimes it is to kill the enemy. But the turret is fine it just cannot be used in the simplistic manner it was with the massive self-heal.

 

Exactly what skill is celebrated in the big self-heal scenario. In my memory the Isida would see me, derive straight at me, never turn it's turret, just come park in front of my hull and beam me. This gave that player ample time to press the 2, 3, 4 and 1 key as needed.

 

And this is what some people want back, eh?

First of all I was not judging you nor trying to comment on your supply use. I was making my query based on previous posts that seemed to indicate your experience using Isida was mostly in conjunction with supplies like Double Damage. If that was not the case then (as mentioned in my above post) I apologize.

 

The "can't kill fast enough" comment would have more importance in DM yes, since it's all or nothing. No score if you don't complete the kill.

But also affects all battles where one-on-one a non-drugging Isida will lose most battles vs competent opponent.

Sure an Isida can beat another turret if opponent is less skilled and can't even turn the turret. But no one should count on that as an SOP.

 

In higher levels (M3+) the opponents are dealing massive damage quickly. The Isida does not keep up. Look at damage per second or time-to-kill stats. The Isida lags far behind.

 

Do I want 50% self-heal back? No.  10% is a joke though. And the alteration? +10% self-heal for -30% damage? LMAO. Self-heal is based on damage. Sounds like a zero-sum game for lots of crystals.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

First of all I was not judging you nor trying to comment on your supply use. I was making my query based on previous posts that seemed to indicate your experience using Isida was mostly in conjunction with supplies like Double Damage. If that was not the case then (as mentioned in my above post) I apologize.

 

The "can't kill fast enough" comment would have more importance in DM yes, since it's all or nothing. No score if you don't complete the kill.

But also affects all battles where one-on-one a non-drugging Isida will lose most battles vs competent opponent.

Sure an Isida can beat another turret if opponent is less skilled and can't even turn the turret. But no one should count on that as an SOP.

 

In higher levels (M3+) the opponents are dealing massive damage quickly. The Isida does not keep up. Look at damage per second or time-to-kill stats. The Isida lags far behind.

 

Do I want 50% self-heal back? No.  10% is a joke though. And the alteration? +10% self-heal for -30% damage? LMAO. Self-heal is based on damage. Sounds like a zero-sum game for lots of crystals.

No apology needed! :o

 

I've been jotting down exp, kills, and supplies about once a week for a few months... You gave me a use for the data so i posted it.  I am a data guy and what you did make data guys happy not offended. :)

 

I was actually a bit surprised to learn I'd used almost exactly what i'd earned. I thought I used even less. But anyway there's the numbers decide for yourselves Dear Readers... numbers are more useful than the term "drugger" IMO

 

i've been using DD a bit more but quite often that is in a big healing situation. If I have 2-3 badly wounded medium/heavy teammates , or the same number under heavy fire, the only way to keep them intact is to pop a DD. 

 

The difference in DPS between a freeze or fire or isida is not so dramatic that the Isida is doomed to lose every 1:1 matchup.  In fact at the Isida's maximum range the Isida DPS is higher than a comparable Firebird or freeze (hint. hint.) The Isida damage does not attenuate with range. the others do.

 

The key to success with every turret and hull is in learning how to leverage your advantages. The isida has several only one of which is the self-heal. I also drive a nimble Hornet which I think makes quite a difference. 

 

I don't know the end-game but once again to me it is the end-game that is broken not the basic design concept of Isida.

 

As for the added self-heal via the alteration... I agree. I'd rather kill the enemy and avoid the damage rather than repair some of it while i get pounded longer. I rented both during the sale week but chose to buy neither during the alteration sale. They are crutches not aids for the able.

Edited January 1, 2017 by LittleWillie

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

 

The difference in DPS between a freeze or fire or isida is not so dramatic that the Isida is doomed to lose every 1:1 matchup.  In fact at the Isida's maximum range the Isida DPS is higher than a comparable Firebird or freeze (hint. hint.) The Isida damage does not attenuate with range. the others do.

Ah but the Freeze will close the distance and the firebird- well, Firebird is underpowered. Let's not talk about that.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

 

Do I want 50% self-heal back? No.  10% is a joke though. And the alteration? +10% self-heal for -30% damage? LMAO. Self-heal is based on damage. Sounds like a zero-sum game for lots of crystals.

As for the added self-heal via the alteration... I agree. I'd rather kill the enemy and avoid the damage rather than repair some of it while i get pounded longer. I rented both during the sale week but chose to buy neither during the alteration sale. They are crutches not aids for the able.

Yes....seems like some people forgot self-heal is a percentage of the damage.  The M2 alteration was supposed to be THE self-heal alteration but the difference is negligible, and the other stats' change make much more of a difference.

 

To make room for the alteration, IMO the stock Isida needs less charge and a better healing rate. Firebird also needs more charge, whatever. 

Edited January 2, 2017 by r_I_already_won0