Is English community's Cybersport falling?

FaaiqBilal1 · June 26, 2014

L1 clans except TQ, L2 clans except few. That equals almost 40-50 players with full m3 garage

P.S.- I don't have time to read ur earlier post becoz i cudn't see anything which makes sense :)

Let's keep a worst case: only 10 M3 M3 members in each clan, that would render to almost 4-5 clans which are worthy of playing against Russians. Is that enough?

To your following statement: If you haven't read my earlier post, how can you pre-maturely determine that it doesn't make sense?

canadarules · June 26, 2014

And now for my daily dissection of peoples comments :P

That's not what really matters, what matters is the fact that english players are yet incapable for competing with the Russian clans. Perhaps a step that could have been taken to improve the situation would be to lower down the dependency of 'XP'. There are many players out there who do not use 'XP' but play MUCH better with other combos. Now the Star Ladder tournaments are dependent completely on XP combos. Why would we waste crystals or irl money on the game if we knew that only one combo would be used in the end. Creating more sets of combos that would be allowed in clan wars would improve this. For this, they must level the tanks/guns. The reason heavy hulls can't be used in the tournaments is because they are too over powered. Lowering down their strength and making them capable of competing with other combos without over powering them will require huge amount of attention. I believe that there are many other players in the game who do not know about the forum and resulting, they do not know about clans. Promotion of the forum, and specially, the cyber sport section would be a huge step to the improvement

of the collapsing cybersport. Finding more clans in the second and third leagues which really deserve being in the top league would be required.

Without these steps, English cybersport community will eventually decline.

'Solo' and 'Tandem' competitions really require a guide so more of them emerge. Currently, only few people who have knowledge of organizing manage to successfully organise these sort of tournaments.

Rendering a bit off-topic, are we? ;)

Um 70% of people know what XP is and some just decide to ruin it for everyone.....using an xp combo is not required just look at some of the streamed events...hunters are used...the format is rail with 1 smoky(just allow all guns omg) with either hunter,hornet,wasp or viking. So um no Star-ladder is actually making everything worse by not even knowing all the players....at least Cybersport know the players for the most part. Doesn't really help when there are hardly any cs memebers too

I don't think that guys with full m3 garage want crystals, they want paints. Even 2 million crystals for a guy with full m3 garage is useless :)

Please tell me, how many are there in the English community?

L1 clans except TQ, L2 clans except few. That equals almost 40-50 players with full m3 garage
P.S.- I don't have time to read ur earlier post fully becoz i cudn't see anything which makes sense :)

40-50...buddy there is over 50k people with m3 garages at least

also 2 million crystals i would love to use that on supplies and micros :3

Nailed it!
i believe we should show support to our players and community in these troubled times.we have our short comings,yes. but let not make this a platform to bash cybersport and our clans in general.

troubled times?

try again....the problem is default times...Russians would fall so quick it is not even funny if they were taken off

Let's keep a worst case: only 10 M3 M3 members in each clan, that would render to almost 4-5 clans which are worthy of playing against Russians. Is that enough?

To your following statement: If you haven't read my earlier post, how can you pre-maturely determine that it doesn't make sense?

um no already as it is with these default times half of our clans can't play....an example last dream team...17 gmt many clans couldn't make it at that time. let the clans make it on there own terms

FaaiqBilal1 · June 26, 2014

And now for my daily dissection of peoples comments :P

Um 70% of people know what XP is and some just decide to ruin it for everyone.....using an xp combo is not required just look at some of the streamed events...hunters are used...the format is rail with 1 smoky(just allow all guns omg) with either hunter,hornet,wasp or viking. So um no Star-ladder is actually making everything worse by not even knowing all the players....at least Cybersport know the players for the most part. Doesn't really help when there are hardly any cs memebers too

40-50...buddy there is over 50k people with m3 garages at least

also 2 million crystals i would love to use that on supplies and micros :3

troubled times?

try again....the problem is default times...Russians would fall so quick it is not even funny if they were taken off

um no already as it is with these default times half of our clans can't play....an example last dream team...17 gmt many clans couldn't make it at that time. let the clans make it on there own terms

Have to agree, they kept only XP combos for wars, especially in star ladder. Why not add other tanks and guns? They would actually add diversity to the game with different combos. The Cybersport would be something worth signing up for. Unlike right now where you just have to be good at XP and the whole game is yours.

There are over 50k players with M3 M3 garages right? Tell me how many still play and they are well informed with the 'English' Cybersport and would like to take part in it. I think half of them were veterans who were playing since 2010-2011 and left when some of the updates they didn't like came in. There is probably any who would be interested to play with XP combos only in wars.

Yes, time management is a huge problem. It has to be solved. How about they ask the leaders of a time they are all suited, and then match it with the other clans with different Time Zones but are available at one suited time. I bet that way half of the Russian clans would just lose by forfeit and being unable to come. If this is something you guys would really mind, just separate them. You need a solution to time zones, if the given steps weren't followed and no replacement was set for them, I am afraid that one sided players will be unable to take part in the tournaments and half of the clans will be knocked out by being unable to come.

canadarules · June 27, 2014

Yes, time management is a huge problem. It has to be solved. How about they ask the leaders of a time they are all suited, and then match it with the other clans with different Time Zones but are available at one suited time. I bet that way half of the Russian clans would just lose by forfeit and being unable to come. If this is something you guys would really mind, just separate them. You need a solution to time zones, if the given steps weren't followed and no replacement was set for them, I am afraid that one sided players will be unable to take part in the tournaments and half of the clans will be knocked out by being unable to come.

which is why i stated just remove the default time and have none make it be you must play on this day period or give a deadline for the game

SuperNick95 · June 27, 2014

I render your argument valid, but in my opinion, the warning was inappropriate, discussion regarding cyber sport should be allowed and watching the decline in it, we can only work if we plan something.

Considering the on going discussion I would like to add that MAYBE, the time is not yet ripe to merge all the communities together. Russians have many advantages over the other communities, as stated by yourself. The prizes and experience they have had does not match that of our community. Perhaps it doesn't have to, but I further implore that we should only have tournaments in our community which is yet to grow, our clans aren't good or liable to take part with others.

To the OP, I agree that lags have been increasing greatly. Perhaps one of the reason could be the recent double funds, 3* reward on VKontakte, but the reason that could greatly be responsible for this would be that the developers are extremely busy with the movement of tanki to Unity. They are unable to get enough time to maintain their servers.

I believe it is only a matter of weeks that hackers will take advantage of this vulnerability and hackers arise. We can also expect that this MAY cause tanki to Unity to be abandoned, just like Tanki 2.0 was. Maybe the situation is slightly different because tanki was undergoing a set of changes, but here they are completely changing their engine, which they really need to, they didn't exactly need to move to tanki 2.0 back then.

That warn was not for the whole post ma for the single line of it I cited.

It may not have been the time yet to merge all cybersports but that was definitely required by the development of the game. Furthermore, we couldn't have same prizes (paints) as russians did right because our tournaments were much easier to win than theirs, and taking part in a single tournament with a single prize cancels this problem.

On a final note, english clans can't improve just by fighting between themselves. Letting them face another reality shows them what they should aim for and the close relationships with pro russian clans may even tell them how. If they don't take the chance and instead close due to bad results in tournaments, is just due to their will of "winning without training" which I already described in my first post.

No I'm not new here, I have been here since 2011, this is my alternative account.

We only had 1 paint, which is Lucky7, which was disgusting and is nothing compared to Acid, I'm talking about Clan championships, the first clan championship (Which DD won in it), you gave them no paints, while Russians had 7 clan championships and Champion, Silver and Bronze were the prizes along with crystals.

There were Acid (TOF Solo and Tandem, Clan Championship) and Gladiator (TOF Dream Team) for us too.

Latvian_troller · June 27, 2014

Tanki 2.0? i had to google it to believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj_77LHzWsU

Tanki 2.0 was a wish at 2011-2012 christmas (i don't remember which year exactly).

About the topic, this topic is now a flamewar and should be locked.

FaaiqBilal1 · June 27, 2014

That warn was not for the whole post ma for the single line of it I cited.

It may not have been the time yet to merge all cybersports but that was definitely required by the development of the game. Furthermore, we couldn't have same prizes (paints) as russians did right because our tournaments were much easier to win than theirs, and taking part in a single tournament with a single prize cancels this problem.

On a final note, english clans can't improve just by fighting between themselves. Letting them face another reality shows them what they should aim for and the close relationships with pro russian clans may even tell them how. If they don't take the chance and instead close due to bad results in tournaments, is just due to their will of "winning without training" which I already described in my first post.

Fair points. I emphasize that these tournaments should NOT be connected to star ladder already. We are way too far from that. Why do they whine about the paints when they know they don't deserve them as yet?

About facing reality we can make official, yet non star ladder connected tournaments for clans.

About improving without training, we only have 3 worthy clans in the first league to take part against the Russian clans. So we can only fight with these 3? Why not dig out some good clans in League 2 or 3? I believe that there may be atleast 2 other clans in there. Just need to dig them out. I will take a further investigation about clans when my cybersport ban finishes.

As pointed out by canadarules, fixed time is a problem. You can give dates to the clans, that in between these dates you may fix a fixture among yourselves and give out a clan battle, most english clans won't be able to make it out anyway.

Tanki 2.0 was a wish at 2011-2012 christmas (i don't remember which year exactly).

About the topic, this topic is now a flamewar and should be locked.

Flamewar? You're a troller who doesn't know anything about decent arguments and discussions. You strive upon getting topics closed and starting flamewars! Every post of yours indicates hypocrisy.

r_Damn_Slow0 · June 29, 2014

Just to interject:

League 1 - 3

League 2 - 11

League 3 - 42
-------------
Total - 56

That's how many M3 based clans we have so far on our forum, and apart from a few in the top 2 leagues most of the others haven't had a full M3 garage, nor have seen much competitions, and definitely not competitions with tougher opponents in the other communities.

As nick said earlier over 200 Russian teams are already registered on starladder against some 40 on the international side. That's how much of a minority we are at the moment, hence why when it comes to timing issues the balance leans towards Russian friendly times. Starladder is also about live broadcasting of top matches, so expect to have streaming schedules dictate times in the higher star series as well, pretty much like it is for any broadcasted sporting event.

r_Damn_Slow0 · June 29, 2014

As for how strong our clans are with respect to the top Russian ones, I believe we are a bit far for the moment for various issues (no disrespect to the likes of NA and AK). Timing is one of them, but other reasons are not to be ignored.

Attitude - This is the biggest problem so far. Most of our players haven't adopted the right attitude yet. The top russian clan players see the whole thing as a professional sport, and so put more dedication in it and mostly put aside petty quarrels. Our community on the other hand is a festival of petty quarrels among clans, clan members of opposing clans as well as clan members within the same clan. We see it on a daily basis and too often we see clans with huge potential falling to pieces just because of some friction among certain hot heads.

Maturity - Our player base is quite young. Not saying Russian kids don't play the game, but they do have an average age line in the upper teens level for their top clans, while over here most of our top clans have an average age line in the mid teens. This difference in demography of the 2 communities plays its part too.

Sporting and Fair Play - A major source of facepalms when it comes to this community. Apart from a few, too few true sportsmen in this community, most are here just to win and at all cost. Whether its by injecting mults on the other team, capping when other team is fewer in numbers, provoking them in comments while playing and after or even before, victors disparaging the losers up to posting results on forum and act like "kings" around a noob victory^{(not a fair fight)} and dissing all opponents as noobs, or all sorts of other unsporting behaviours.

Its even more annoying in so called XP battles. These used to be gentlemen battles. But ever since it grew in popularity it has become a feast of unsporting noobs. How many knows the ethic codes old XP players abide by ? How many of you here ever gifted the enemy team a free flag out of fair play ?

Leadership & Coaching - Not to be harsh on clan leaders, but the vast majority of you guys don't know how to do that, how to handle a group of people with various personalities and make sure they stay focused, how to manage and schedule the group activities, how to plan for their wars, how to lead both in-game and off-game, how to pick out the key players, how to resolve disputes among clan members themselves as well as with outsiders, how to encourage friendship bonding among the group, encouraging people to stay in their clan, etc .... oh, saddest point: a lot don't even know the rules of cybersports, nor the rules of tournaments they engage their clans in

Technical Knowledge - Most of our clans don't have much of that. Dare I say more 90% of them. This involves anything from adequate communication tools, productivity tools, utilities, fixing lags in all its various aspects. Many don't know how the internet works and how packets of information are sent to servers when you press on a button on your keyboard, how long that takes for that signal to get acknowledged by server, how long to get a feedback, why its so long, and how to remedy to that. Why skype is not the best tool for voice calls for a clan. How to play without a keyboard or reconfigure it.

Game Technicalities - This is an area where the Russians have been outsmarting EN players all the time. On average their player base knows more about the game technics and how to make best use it in battles. Characteristics of each hulls, turrets, paints, and combinations of those, how they fare on drugs, how to use them efficiently against the enemy and all types of enemy. Just imagine, a few are still wondering "if smoky have had its critical damage taken off in Star Series games, didn't receive any more damage increase, then why do they use it at all ?"

Map Awareness - I can honestly say 90% of us here don't know each and every corner of the maps we play on. A typical Russian pro clan player can in effect drive backwards around the maps used for cybersports events. In here we still have clans who don't know the overall layout of maps, drop zones and so on. Speaking of, here's a link to those who need overhead shots.

Commitment -
I won't confirm that rumour, but it sums it up. Of course we're not asking people to ditch school / work just to play the game. But for those who want to get far up in the series, they will have to be aware of their schedule and priorities and shuffle things around a little to accommodate for a more professional gaming.

Know your enemy - In every sports there's a need to know your opponent, their stats, current form, weaknesses, strong points, techniques, endurance, patience limits, and so on. This shouldn't be any different here.

In-Game strategy and coordination - This is not an area I will dwell much on, ultimately each team will have its own. But generally our community fails in that aspect and it shows quite often in battles streams.

A very important point here is almost all of our EN clans don't seem to realise it but strategy on its own will not save you if you haven't tackled the other issues first. This also takes a lot of time and practice, and if each weeks a member leaves and another one joins the balance is upset and all the work has to be redone. Some of you will in fact recall Scorpions captain refer to how a change in line up affected their game play in their defeat against Can't Stop. So make sure you first tackle out all other issues, get a stable team, know each members characteristics well before you start planning and developing your strategies.

Broken, Beat & Scarred - These guys and their song say it all. What don't kill you make you more strong. So don't give up, learn from all those defeats, beatings, mistakes and come again. And keep coming ! And more !

r_Damn_Slow0 · June 29, 2014

To answer the OP's question, Is English community's Cybersport falling? I would say it hasn't even arisen yet. I like to see EN cybersport with this analogy:

Since it started and up to the mid 2013 - it has been in its infancy, in its cradle. Remember back then clans could do whatever they wanted. There wasn't much tournaments, least strict-rules and technical tournaments like we have now.

From mid 2013 up till now - it has only just learned and started to walk around. This has been mostly due to the wave of changes coming in that period. Many will recall Cybersport 2.0 project as well as clear definite clan war battle formats becoming the norm, specially the light ones.

From now till we're there - We now already know how to walk, let's start learning how to run ! My previous post already discusses some aspects we need to tackle as a community to get a start on that. The sooner we start working on all that, the better.

Competitive era - It will come up, but how fast, that I cannot answer. It depends on how quickly we achieve the above before we start seeing teams emerging from our community evolving in the top series competing with the top clans. But before we get there we need to start working now and get more responsible about it.

A few notable points I've gathered along the way
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From a very famous retired clan leader who puts it very eloquently:

"Eventually, the outcome of a game is a result of the amount of mistakes made by the players" - They worked hard and reached quite high, had good discipline, great strategy, but the result of their game was nailed down to one aspect. Some of their players made a minute wrong move at the wrong time and it cost them dearly. (kinda reminds me of a few of the world cup games to be honest :rolleyes: )

From a mature League 2 clan leader:

"The biggest problem is every gamer with the skills/time/ambition all want to be the leader of their own clan or like to be in a certain clan with certain people and not with certain others for various reasons, so everyone with talent all find themselves in teams with other "noobs" rather than team up and actually win." - That's very true actually. We have a dispersal of talent in here. In all clans we find that 1 awesome player and it makes you wonder what if we could pick those guys out and bring them working together in 1 single team?

From a very young League 2 clan leader:

"English clans are lazy ._. " - Self explanatory. He was referring to how hard it is for a clan to get another clan to train with them, and how other clans with whom they do get to train are not serious at all, therefore total waste of time for his clan.

Edited June 29, 2014 by r_Damn_Slow0

Reckoning · June 29, 2014

As for how strong our clans are with respect to the top Russian ones, I believe we are a bit far for the moment for various issues (no disrespect to the likes of NA and AK). Timing is one of them, but other reasons are not to be ignored.

Attitude - This is the biggest problem so far. Most of our players haven't adopted the right attitude yet. The top russian clan players see the whole thing as a professional sport, and so put more dedication in it and mostly put aside petty quarrels. Our community on the other hand is a festival of petty quarrels among clans, clan members of opposing clans as well as clan members within the same clan. We see it on a daily basis and too often we see clans with huge potential falling to pieces just because of some friction among certain hot heads.

Maturity - Our player base is quite young. Not saying Russian kids don't play the game, but they do have an average age line in the upper teens level for their top clans, while over here most of our top clans have an average age line in the mid teens. This difference in demography of the 2 communities plays its part too.

Sporting and Fair Play - A major source of facepalms when it comes to this community. Apart from a few, too few true sportsmen in this community, most are here just to win and at all cost. Whether its by injecting mults on the other team, capping when other team is fewer in numbers, provoking them in comments while playing and after or even before, victors disparaging the losers up to posting results on forum and act like "kings" around a noob victory^{(not a fair fight)} and dissing all opponents as noobs, or all sorts of other unsporting behaviours.

Its even more annoying in so called XP battles. These used to be gentlemen battles. But ever since it grew in popularity it has become a feast of unsporting noobs. How many knows the ethic codes old XP players abide by ? How many of you here ever gifted the enemy team a free flag out of fair play ?

Leadership & Coaching - Not to be harsh on clan leaders, but the vast majority of you guys don't know how to do that, how to handle a group of people with various personalities and make sure they stay focused, how to manage and schedule the group activities, how to plan for their wars, how to lead both in-game and off-game, how to pick out the key players, how to resolve disputes among clan members themselves as well as with outsiders, how to encourage friendship bonding among the group, encouraging people to stay in their clan, etc .... oh, saddest point: a lot don't even know the rules of cybersports, nor the rules of tournaments they engage their clans in

Technical Knowledge - Most of our clans don't have much of that. Dare I say more 90% of them. This involves anything from adequate communication tools, productivity tools, utilities, fixing lags in all its various aspects. Many don't know how the internet works and how packets of information are sent to servers when you press on a button on your keyboard, how long that takes for that signal to get acknowledged by server, how long to get a feedback, why its so long, and how to remedy to that. Why skype is not the best tool for voice calls for a clan. How to play without a keyboard or reconfigure it.

Game Technicalities - This is an area where the Russians have been outsmarting EN players all the time. On average their player base knows more about the game technics and how to make best use it in battles. Characteristics of each hulls, turrets, paints, and combinations of those, how they fare on drugs, how to use them efficiently against the enemy and all types of enemy. Just imagine, a few are still wondering "if smoky have had its critical damage taken off in Star Series games, didn't receive any more damage increase, then why do they use it at all ?"

Map Awareness - I can honestly say 90% of us here don't know each and every corner of the maps we play on. A typical Russian pro clan player can in effect drive backwards around the maps used for cybersports events. In here we still have clans who don't know the overall layout of maps, drop zones and so on. Speaking of, here's a link to those who need overhead shots.

Commitment -

I won't confirm that rumour, but it sums it up. Of course we're not asking people to ditch school / work just to play the game. But for those who want to get far up in the series, they will have to be aware of their schedule and priorities and shuffle things around a little to accommodate for a more professional gaming.

Know your enemy - In every sports there's a need to know your opponent, their stats, current form, weaknesses, strong points, techniques, endurance, patience limits, and so on. This shouldn't be any different here.

In-Game strategy and coordination - This is not an area I will dwell much on, ultimately each team will have its own. But generally our community fails in that aspect and it shows quite often in battles streams.

A very important point here is almost all of our EN clans don't seem to realise it but strategy on its own will not save you if you haven't tackled the other issues first. This also takes a lot of time and practice, and if each weeks a member leaves and another one joins the balance is upset and all the work has to be redone. Some of you will in fact recall Scorpions captain refer to how a change in line up affected their game play in their defeat against Can't Stop. So make sure you first tackle out all other issues, get a stable team, know each members characteristics well before you start planning and developing your strategies.

Broken, Beat & Scarred - These guys and their song say it all. What don't kill you make you more strong. So don't give up, learn from all those defeats, beatings, mistakes and come again. And keep coming ! And more !

Legitimate concerns.

Hope its not water on a duck's back for our players.proper introspecting is needed.

BarneyAndFriend · June 29, 2014

Russian have much experienced on Tanki then English . They play from 2009/2010 and still did not quit the game , and most of old English player from 2009/2010 already leave Tanki . Only a few left that still playing Tanki . They work as a team , they behave and respect each other (maybe) , and many more . But not like our community , NA closed and there is many haters hate them just because they closed the clan . Also there is many English Old players moved to Russian Community , and they become great and better . We should work together on one community to become great and better , and not fighting each other .

GoldRock · June 29, 2014

^Mr. , post what you've written above in the CyberSport/FAQ section pls... Seems like necessary reading for clan leaders in our community, to me.

Edited June 29, 2014 by GoldRock

xterrork · June 29, 2014

On a final note, english clans can't improve just by fighting between themselves. Letting them face another reality shows them what they should aim for and the close relationships with pro russian clans may even tell them how. If they don't take the chance and instead close due to bad results in tournaments, is just due to their will of "winning without training" which I already described in my first post.

This is the best way for upgrading the EN community clans. Even if loose battles at the end the experience that you take is the best advisor to understand what do you want from your clan.

All players and clans have the right to play and try their power in a cybersport and if they want to go for pro battles it is their right to decide it. This is why i was always positive to international community or to starladder tournament.

And noone have the right to judje the others about what desicions takes for themselves or for their clan.

As for the clans from what i have seen untill now it is that when you change always members you cannot have a pro clan and this is the reason which starladder say 12 members only and why NA and AK closed or left from the tournament. When the time comes then you will see the english community clans in good positions of pro tournaments. Dont forget that every day new players begin to play TO or some older players have no time to play. And for final there is and a real life which is most important for a player, if you are ok and in good mood you can play better as it happens to all sports.

ps. Supernick and Damn Slow writes a lot of right things but someone have to read them not look at them.

Edited June 29, 2014 by xterrork

Lhamster · June 29, 2014

I have to agree with what Damn Slow has said, all I see in the clan leaders chat on Skype is constant bickering and arguing, and I've been saying for quite a while that English CS can't progress with this going on and we haven't deserved tournaments with good prizes like paints.

Personally, I'm not entering my clan for the AmSeries as IK that we aren't ready, we have different priorities as a clan so we don't train enough, we don't have a constant team, and we'll be destroyed by the first Russian clan we meet.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Lhamster

r_Damn_Slow0 · June 29, 2014

3^rd post amended with this, forgot about it when posting

From a very young League 2 clan leader:

"English clans are lazy ._. " - Self explanatory. He was referring to how hard it is for a clan to get another clan to train with them, and how other clans with whom they do get to train are not serious at all, therefore total waste of time for his clan.

DanTheKiller1 · June 29, 2014

I think the whole community is going down...More and more peps leaving,dead forum..

FaaiqBilal1 · June 29, 2014

As for how strong our clans are with respect to the top Russian ones, I believe we are a bit far for the moment for various issues (no disrespect to the likes of NA and AK). Timing is one of them, but other reasons are not to be ignored.

Attitude - This is the biggest problem so far. Most of our players haven't adopted the right attitude yet. The top russian clan players see the whole thing as a professional sport, and so put more dedication in it and mostly put aside petty quarrels. Our community on the other hand is a festival of petty quarrels among clans, clan members of opposing clans as well as clan members within the same clan. We see it on a daily basis and too often we see clans with huge potential falling to pieces just because of some friction among certain hot heads.

Maturity - Our player base is quite young. Not saying Russian kids don't play the game, but they do have an average age line in the upper teens level for their top clans, while over here most of our top clans have an average age line in the mid teens. This difference in demography of the 2 communities plays its part too.

Sporting and Fair Play - A major source of facepalms when it comes to this community. Apart from a few, too few true sportsmen in this community, most are here just to win and at all cost. Whether its by injecting mults on the other team, capping when other team is fewer in numbers, provoking them in comments while playing and after or even before, victors disparaging the losers up to posting results on forum and act like "kings" around a noob victory^{(not a fair fight)} and dissing all opponents as noobs, or all sorts of other unsporting behaviours.

Its even more annoying in so called XP battles. These used to be gentlemen battles. But ever since it grew in popularity it has become a feast of unsporting noobs. How many knows the ethic codes old XP players abide by ? How many of you here ever gifted the enemy team a free flag out of fair play ?

Leadership & Coaching - Not to be harsh on clan leaders, but the vast majority of you guys don't know how to do that, how to handle a group of people with various personalities and make sure they stay focused, how to manage and schedule the group activities, how to plan for their wars, how to lead both in-game and off-game, how to pick out the key players, how to resolve disputes among clan members themselves as well as with outsiders, how to encourage friendship bonding among the group, encouraging people to stay in their clan, etc .... oh, saddest point: a lot don't even know the rules of cybersports, nor the rules of tournaments they engage their clans in

Technical Knowledge - Most of our clans don't have much of that. Dare I say more 90% of them. This involves anything from adequate communication tools, productivity tools, utilities, fixing lags in all its various aspects. Many don't know how the internet works and how packets of information are sent to servers when you press on a button on your keyboard, how long that takes for that signal to get acknowledged by server, how long to get a feedback, why its so long, and how to remedy to that. Why skype is not the best tool for voice calls for a clan. How to play without a keyboard or reconfigure it.

Game Technicalities - This is an area where the Russians have been outsmarting EN players all the time. On average their player base knows more about the game technics and how to make best use it in battles. Characteristics of each hulls, turrets, paints, and combinations of those, how they fare on drugs, how to use them efficiently against the enemy and all types of enemy. Just imagine, a few are still wondering "if smoky have had its critical damage taken off in Star Series games, didn't receive any more damage increase, then why do they use it at all ?"

Map Awareness - I can honestly say 90% of us here don't know each and every corner of the maps we play on. A typical Russian pro clan player can in effect drive backwards around the maps used for cybersports events. In here we still have clans who don't know the overall layout of maps, drop zones and so on. Speaking of, here's a link to those who need overhead shots.

Commitment -

I won't confirm that rumour, but it sums it up. Of course we're not asking people to ditch school / work just to play the game. But for those who want to get far up in the series, they will have to be aware of their schedule and priorities and shuffle things around a little to accommodate for a more professional gaming.

Know your enemy - In every sports there's a need to know your opponent, their stats, current form, weaknesses, strong points, techniques, endurance, patience limits, and so on. This shouldn't be any different here.

In-Game strategy and coordination - This is not an area I will dwell much on, ultimately each team will have its own. But generally our community fails in that aspect and it shows quite often in battles streams.

A very important point here is almost all of our EN clans don't seem to realise it but strategy on its own will not save you if you haven't tackled the other issues first. This also takes a lot of time and practice, and if each weeks a member leaves and another one joins the balance is upset and all the work has to be redone. Some of you will in fact recall Scorpions captain refer to how a change in line up affected their game play in their defeat against Can't Stop. So make sure you first tackle out all other issues, get a stable team, know each members characteristics well before you start planning and developing your strategies.

Broken, Beat & Scarred - These guys and their song say it all. What don't kill you make you more strong. So don't give up, learn from all those defeats, beatings, mistakes and come again. And keep coming ! And more !

I agree with everything you say, but our community lacks ALOT. Almost all of the given points are lacked by the english CS members. I have been in clans in which people leave the clan because one training messed up.

About the map awareness, I'll get lost in dusseldorf pretty easy :3

++ Most clans should have atleast 2 technicians

Sooo yeah, I agree with everything. That's why I say that we are not yet ready to play with them. One thing you missed out

dun dun dun Default time

Edited June 30, 2014 by Irontank1v
Adding useless spoilers is considered floooood

r_Damn_Slow0 · June 29, 2014

^ did not, its answered in the 1st of the 3 long post I made on the previous page, check again ;)

FaaiqBilal1 · June 29, 2014

Player FaaiqBilal1 has been warned. Reason: Flood / Caps, ••>> Rules

Therider · June 29, 2014

I could say a lot about English clans as i was a leader league 3/4 clan leader for a year and a month so i would know and from experience possibly somethings from league 1/2 but its all fine critiquing English clans i could do about 3 pages worth including what damn_slow suggested. There is a lot that can be said about it but what will we do about it? no one seems to answer this question. Everyone seems to be defending English cybersport and not accepting its a total failure or most of it. If anyone has been watching the football (soccer) lately, you could say Russians are like Brazil and English community are like Chile but right now i would say were like Greece we know we will lose so why bother it almost seems like that. Players seem to look at their personal gain before the clan.. Russian players will go that extra mile for their clan but i just don't see English clans taking the same initiative they will say " we did all we could" and leave it at that and pin the blame on someone else but your a team you cant blame someone else can you? you need to take one for the team and work for a better next game as you can never have done enough there is always more you can do this is one of the things i think English clans fail to understand like it was stated above "English Clans are lazy"

Edited June 29, 2014 by Therider

FaaiqBilal1 · June 29, 2014

Agreed, but if you read the previous pages, you will see that not everyone agrees that the english cybersport is falling. About your question 'What will we do about it?' That is completely up on the clan leaders. Do they believe that we can win some battles? Do they believe that their clan is worthy? Then they are the ones responsible for victory.

Therider · June 29, 2014

^Nope the clan leaders are not responsible for it, all they can do is lead and give hope but the player has the will and give it their all then they are responsible the whole team is responsible the leader isn't the one man army hence forth its called a team, if the leader is willing to give it his all then the clan will follow him as they want to give it their all and some players with the right instinctive they will give it there all whether or not the leader does that's what this community lacks real players with the real mind set and the will to try, e.g players who don't show fear and are not like ones i have seen in the past if they are against a better team from the start they will sell of their dignity by saying "We have lost" without even trying. we have the skills don't get me wrong.. just the mindset..and getting past the petty arguments.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Therider

FaaiqBilal1 · June 30, 2014

^Nope the clan leaders are not responsible for it, all they can do is lead and give hope but the player has the will and give it their all then they are responsible the whole team is responsible the leader isn't the one man army hence forth its called a team, if the leader is willing to give it his all then the clan will follow him as they want to give it their all and some players with the right instinctive they will give it there all whether or not the leader does that's what this community lacks real players with the real mind set and the will to try, e.g players who don't show fear and are not like ones i have seen in the past if they are against a better team from the start they will sell of their dignity by saying "We have lost" without even trying. we have the skills don't get me wrong.. just the mindset..and getting past the petty arguments.

Partly agreed, but are the leaders fulfilling their purpose? Are they doing what they are supposed to? Do they give the necessary guidance? Do they contain the necessary leadership skills? It is without a doubt a fact that out players lack the instinct of playing with dedication or with sportsmanship. They quit to easily. Perhaps the reason is because our community is young. Many tankers in clans who consider themselves too good are actually just kids. They cease to act like people with responsibility. They have a fixed mindset about trying to be superior to the enemy and if they lose, they just blame it on everyone else and do not accept that they had also made a mistake and they must try to find and overcome it. Small arguments break up the clan, reason? Everyone takes sides. Instead of resolving it everyone else aggravates it. The leader has to take actions, he kicks someone, everyone who supports one or more people who were arguing, rage quit the clan. Then the remaining players are already demoralized by the previous loss and lose the spirit to battle. That's why I say we are not ready. Doesn't all of this prove we are too young for this? Our cyber sport is too young to compete with mature Russians?

Since we won't improve just by fighting among ourselves, we compete with the Russians, but my advice to all the clan leaders would be not to take these tournaments as if you have a lot of experience. Learn through these tournaments, learn the opponents weakness. Find your own, it is always easy to find flaws in others, but fixing yourself is very hard. Learn the opponents moves, improve your own, make out a plan. This community has potential, we just don't explore it. We must, we have to make it our in-game ambition to improve in all aspects, we must respect other players, we must learn through them.

On second thought, stop using white, I got a warning for using yellow too much, FBI said it is like depicting mods,

flae88 · June 30, 2014

English clans are lazy ok but most leaders don't try to tackle this laziness. Out of the 8 clans I've been in only one leader has bothered.

Edited June 30, 2014 by flae88

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