New campaign against Mults and Saboteurs.

[Asloth 41]

I feel you guys ( and girls ) 

I was once victim to a massive MULT attack in highland in a 300 minutes game the other team had over 100 flags advance on us, we were only two in my team with 5 mults versus them who had real players.

Then there was this person using a viking/firebird/storm combination that joined their team, he wasn't sabotaging or anything, he was filming our team's mults and filmed the other team's first place player. Turned out they were his mults.

Not long after the mults all left, the viking/firebird left his team and joined mine and then a whole bunch of his friends ( maybe he had a clan and they were members? ) joined too and started to use supplies like crazy!

We won that game and I got a goldbox and of course first place!

 

( This happened before the smart cooldowns)

Edited December 31, 2014 by Asloth

[BackSeatDriver 29]

love this topic, 100% support

[Truthteller 4,204]

I called someone dumb and I got a 1 day bann meanwhile people are ruining battles which is worse and rarely get the same bann I got for '' dumb '' 

I think thats unfair 

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

I called someone dumb and I got a 1 day bann meanwhile people are ruining battles which is worse and rarely get the same bann I got for '' dumb '' 

I think thats unfair 

I agree but, sometimes bad thing happen to good people, this is life. We are keeping this topic alive in the hopes that someday the devs will hear our plea. After all they finally did something for all the XP guys that complained about their games getting ruined, now what about the rest of us?

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

I feel you guys ( and girls ) 

I was once victim to a massive MULT attack in highland in a 300 minutes game the other team had over 100 flags advance on us, we were only two in my team with 5 mults versus them who had real players.

Then there was this person using a viking/firebird/storm combination that joined their team, he wasn't sabotaging or anything, he was filming our team's mults and filmed the other team's first place player. Turned out they were his mults.

Not long after the mults all left, the viking/firebird left his team and joined mine and then a whole bunch of his friends ( maybe he had a clan and they were members? ) joined too and started to use supplies like crazy!

We won that game and I got a goldbox and of course first place!

 

( This happened before the smart cooldowns)

Nice story, good thing you got the gold box. Did the guy with the video report those players? I doubt it, because it sounds more like a Raid set up.

[Asloth 41]

Nice story, good thing you got the gold box. Did the guy with the video report those players? I doubt it, because it sounds more like a Raid set up.

Still happy that mult user got taught a lesson

[7919zola 252]

Well, IF there is one benefit from the removal of crystal boxes from the game, it's that we know longer have to worry about "crystal grabbers" practically acting like mults, since all they would do is grab crystal and wait for the next box to drop without providing any assistance to their team... hence their name. Obviously this one benefit could be wildly debated among many players, since you essentially swapped "crystal grabbers" with tons of players complaining and criticizing Tanki for removing their beloved crystal boxes. 

 

I realize my comment doesn't really provide any new ideas about how to deal with these problems, and simply restates something I'm sure we are all aware of by now, but I felt the need to address the "crystal grabbers" part of the topic, since they are basically non-existent in the game for the time being.

 

 

EDIT: You can add me to your list if wish, because I formally support the campaign.  ;)

Edited January 3, 2015 by 7919zola

[Baby_Sam 614]

I think mults, saboteurs, etc. need to be kicked out by the system. Just like when a crazy battle is completely unbalanced (although this does not solve most of the problem), when the system finds someone not contributing to the team (that is different from not making a kill) for a specific period of time, they should be kicked out (and banned for half an hour or so) maybe punished somehow if people complain about them. You can campaign all you want, but if the system does not cooperate, you are just wasting your time and effort.

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

This "campaign" has and continues to be a success. This topic is about educating players about this problem and if it helps prevent a few games from being ruined, I consider that a success as well. If you look on the first post, at the bottom, there is a link to an idea to help combat this issue. KICK2 is something that the game designers and developers would need to add, and is kept separate from this topic for that reason. This topic only covers things that players can do to combat this issue and has nothing to with Tanki and does not require any support from them.

[Baby_Sam 614]

I did not see the KICK2 idea before, but I have just gone over it quickly.

 

It is still problematic. You have to know that there is already a foul-play detection mechanism in TO. I once got kicked out automatically because of it. We were in a battle where there was 8 of us and 1 of the other team, and we practically abandoned fighting and started to fool around. I climbed on top of the enemy tank and stayed there for a while. I got a message that said "Foul play detected." and got kicked out of the battle.

 

We just need that system improved. The system already knows (or can keep track of it) if some tank all it did was flipping a few tanks of the same team and did not attempt to contribute to the battle. We also need the pause regulated, i.e. you can't join a battle and immediately go to pause. You have to play 5 minutes at least, or something like that. If the battle remaining time is short, you should not be able to pause, etc.

 

Voting and any other mechanism that depends on player participation is doomed. Yes, your campaign may save a few battles a day, but you can't call that a success. You have to shoot for a better goal. This is like somebody spitting on a forest fire. You need a billion spits to make a difference, and everyone can do a lot better than that and much easier.

 

You need the devs' help to make a real difference.

 

I went through some of the ideas here and I think I have posted here once or more before, but what is the percentage of players who subscribe to the forum anyway? I have no idea, but I would think maybe 10-20%. That is not good enough to make a difference. I appreciate your effort though, and I feel your pain, but we all have to do much better.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Baby_Sam

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

I did not see the KICK2 idea before, but I have just gone over it quickly.

 

It is still problematic.

 

 

Voting and any other mechanism that depends on player participation is doomed.

I disagree. I think the kick2 idea is as sound as it gets and if you've gone over it quickly then you most certainly didn't understand it, just like you didn't understand the instance of foul play you describe.  Your kicking due to foul play detected had nothing to do with foul play, more to do with a misdetection. 

 

Doomed, how so? Tell me where the idea is bad.

Edited January 4, 2015 by AbsoluteZero

[Baby_Sam 614]

I disagree. I think the kick2 idea is as sound as it gets and if you've gone over it quickly then you most certainly didn't understand it, just like you didn't understand the instance of foul play you describe.  Your kicking due to foul play detected had nothing to do with foul play, more to do with a misdetection. 

 

Doomed, how so? Tell me where the idea is bad.

In all but in small maps, you may be subject to sabotage and only you or another person see that. I doubt it is likely that someone would flip every tank on a team. Also, chances are those people are busy with the actual battle and have no time or may not be sure that it was sabotage.

 

Even if it were misdetection (the fact that we do not know what the game considers foul play makes it difficult to decide on that), that mechanism can be improved so it does not have to do misdetection, but the system already knows whether you are flipped or who flipped you, if someone had been around for a minute and did not deal any damage to the enemy, etc.

 

By the way, does this vice happen in the battles that you go to at your rank?

Edited January 5, 2015 by Baby_Sam

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

In all but in small maps, you may be subject to sabotage and only you or another person see that. I doubt it is likely that someone would flip every tank on a team. Also, chances are those people are busy with the actual battle and have no time or may not be sure that it was sabotage.

 

Even if it were misdetection (the fact that we do not know what the game considers foul play makes it difficult to decide on that), that mechanism can be improved so it does not have to do misdetection, but the system already knows whether you are flipped or who flipped you, if someone had been around for a minute and did not deal any damage to the enemy, etc.

 

By the way, does this **** happen in the battles that you go to at your rank?

The higher the rank the bigger the problem. Also you choice of language is not appreciated.

[Baby_Sam 614]

The higher the rank the bigger the problem. Also you choice of language is not appreciated.

Ignore what you don't like. I always do.

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

Ignore what you don't like. I always do.

Well it is disrespectful to use profanity, not to mention it is against the rules.

[Baby_Sam 614]

I talk this way with people I respect. Also, it is censored, so take it easy.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

If you bothered to read kick2 properly then you'd see it's more to do with players not playing, mults and some cases of sabotage, not all, specifically the kind that cause a player to not register much of a score for the time they are in a battle.

Foul play is more to do with hacking and cheats and nothing to do with flipping someones tank.

The system doesn't track who flips whom because it serves no purpose.

 

So in order to come to a conclusion about kick2, you need a brief understanding of what it is and how it would fit in.

[KrystenHunt16 128]

I personally like this idea and can relate to some of the problems that you're trying to fix. I play as Isida/Wasp, and I'm tired of being flipped over or pushed around by my 'teammates'. I'm sure lots of other players share this frustration, so I'll do anything I can to help.

 

Something I've found that you didn't cover in your first topic: Supply Hounds. Most of them are in conspiracy with the other team, and they simply grab all the supplies on one team's side to make the other team have an unfair advantage. If you can relate please reply to this comment.

 

I'll do anything I can to help the community of Tanki. So... if someone here needs something to be done, just let me know. Thanks!

 

-- Krysten

[Baby_Sam 614]

If you bothered to read kick2 properly then you'd see it's more to do with players not playing, mults and some cases of sabotage, not all, specifically the kind that cause a player to not register much of a score for the time they are in a battle.

Foul play is more to do with hacking and cheats and nothing to do with flipping someones tank.

The system doesn't track who flips whom because it serves no purpose.

 

So in order to come to a conclusion about kick2, you need a brief understanding of what it is and how it would fit in.

You did not tell me anything I did not know before. I know that they do not keep track of who flipped who. I said they easily could. They do not keep track of your score in the sense of how long have you stayed idle or fooling around aimlessly or ineffectively with respect to your rank and the ranks of everyone else around you, but they easily could. All the issues you are worried about they do not track now, but they easily can. They do not invest in that because it has little ROI to them. It does not bring them money. Money makes the world go around. If you can convince them that that can bring them money they'd do it in a heartbeat. They care about cheating because it threatens their pay checks.

 

For this campaign to succeed, you need the person caught multing or sabotaging banned for a month, and that is never going to happen. As I said before, you may be able to save a battle or five a day, but you should shoot for higher than that. I can live with a couple of messed up battles a day. I can leave in my first few minutes there and live happily ever after. I think we need much better than that.

 

I hope my point is clear now.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

You did not tell me anything I did not know before. I know that they do not keep track of who flipped who. I said they easily could. They do not keep track of your score in the sense of how long have you stayed idle or fooling around aimlessly or ineffectively with respect to your rank and the ranks of everyone else around you, but they easily could. All the issues you are worried about they do not track now, but they easily can. They do not invest in that because it has little ROI to them. It does not bring them money. Money makes the world go around. If you can convince them that that can bring them money they'd do it in a heartbeat. They care about cheating because it threatens their pay checks.

 

For this campaign to succeed, you need the person caught multing or sabotaging banned for a month, and that is never going to happen. As I said before, you may be able to save a battle or five a day, but you should shoot for higher than that. I can live with a couple of messed up battles a day. I can leave in my first few minutes there and live happily ever after. I think we need much better than that.

 

I hope my point is clear now.

No it's not. Cheating effects growth and player retention and therefore by extension effects income. TO are going through a particularly good time right now so it's unlikely to be considered soon. I don't mind that but what I do mind is players saying it's doomed for no good reason. If you had one I'd certainly consider it but you don't. Multing and cheating is a major problem in this game. Something does need to be done about it. If you're happy with this then you're in the minority. I have over 150+1s for that suggestion and only 15 -1's. 

 

This idea is very simple to implement. It works from score and time, ie two things that don't need anything complicated like detecting outcomes of graphic collisions while compensating for lag and bad internet connections across the world. I don't need to aim higher or anything more complicated.

 

 

I can leave in my first few minutes there and live happily ever after

 

I wish I had access to those stats you have because I see a lot more than a couple.

[KrystenHunt16 128]

Question: Sometimes in a battle I see people with high-ranking scores from bullying other tanks out of flags (flipping them over to make them drop the flag) and then sitting around for the last 5 minutes of the game since they don't get kicked. What should we (as a group) or I (as an individual) do to prevent/stop this?

 

-- Krysten

Edited January 7, 2015 by KrystenHunt16

[andreaNEW 108]

I think mults, saboteurs, etc. need to be kicked out by the system. Just like when a crazy battle is completely unbalanced (although this does not solve most of the problem) ...

I agree. Tanki should create an automatic 'kick system' for player who doesn't fit the battle

 

 

... when the system finds someone not contributing to the team (that is different from not making a kill) for a specific period of time, they should be kicked out (and banned for half an hour or so) ...

I agree, it's about score/time, not about kills and flags: and I think it could work with the right rules and formulas, some of these are already written in this thread. how could work ? during a CTF a multi (or parkour, or saboteur, doesn't matter) join the game; his teammates play hard, do their best, and they made an average score per minute. After some minutes (may be 5 minutes) the system detect players who don't reach the right average calculated with the right formulas( provided by this thread for example) ... what happen ? the player got a message "you don't reach the average score, you will be kicked in the next 2 minutes) 

 

 

 You can campaign all you want, but if the system does not cooperate, you are just wasting your time and effort.

 

actually, I felt quite sad reading this ... but I fear you are (again) right. Unfortunately, a system managed by players could be misleading (or worst !), or player don't cares and (simple) leaves the battle. A good automatic system could be the best idea.

However ... I am quite optimistic about this, the staff reads this kind of thread and I think they removed crystal box, they introduced smart cooldown, they introduced the 'Battles with obvious outcome will end sooner' BECAUSE this kind of discussions (also the thread about Kick2 have lot of ideas)

 

my two cents

 

Andrea

 

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

Question: Sometimes in a battle I see people with high-ranking scores from bullying other tanks out of flags (flipping them over to make them drop the flag) and then sitting around for the last 5 minutes of the game since they don't get kicked. What should we (as a group) or I (as an individual) do to prevent/stop this?

 

-- Krysten

• You can capture a video and report them.
• You can inform them that you are capturing video and will  be reporting them. Sometimes this alone is enough to stop them.
• You can use the "/vote players_name" it has been working more frequently lately. Make sure to ask others to vote as well. It takes multiple reporters to draw the attention of a moderator. I usually put "/vote player_name" sent  in the chat as well. Sometimes the offender will leave.
• As a last effort you can ask everyone to leave the battle and stop feeding the saboteurs.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Canadian_Eh

[yakety_yak 2]

First World Problems, this whole thread, first world problems

[SgtRock61 16]

I agree with KrystenHunt16

 

The system, as is, needs some tuning.

Reporting players 'in battle' (using '/vote offender' command) does not work - UNLESS enough players will do so - and many players are too busy battling to do so, or are distracted or even unable to MAKE the report.

 

I am running into many battle 'trolls' now - players who do NOT fight as team mates, but simply interfere with players, often disastrously, causing confusion, and ruining the 'team' aspect of this game.

 

Having an automated system to watch for kills and scoring would be a great help in removing such 'players' who are only in battles to ruin gameplay.

 

Overall, Tanki needs more and better mod coverage, in all aspects - chat lobbies, and responding timely to in-game reports. Players in chat lobbies are offending players more and more frequently.

 

Gary

SgtRock61