Player's Moderation: Kick2

[Schmerznebel 12]

This would be a great system especially with the "rejoining battle" part. Also I think there should be a limit to chat in battles; both character count and enter button press count.

[zxcvas12 13]

What is this????? I didn't understand 1 thing that he explained here!!

[Mr.Eswar 188]

Goood one....

 

Good luck :)

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

What is this????? I didn't understand 1 thing that he explained here!!

It's a system based ultimately from your score and your time in battle. You get judged based on the scores and work-rates of those around you.

It's a bit difficult to understand at first so you're not alone. You have to work through it all a couple of times to begin to get the general meaning.

[andreaNEW 108]

There are situations where 2 or more players are playing from the same IP, so that will not work. Now using MAC address filtering may be possible,but I'm not knowledgeable enough in that area.

unfortunately it's not possible  :(

[Co437 54]

Here are my concerns....

 

 

(1) A smart mult will learn to play just well enough to get above the minimum level to avoid getting kicked.   The effect is the same ... they weaken their team.

 

 

(2) What if you find yourself in a game where your teammates are constantly drugging, and you are not a drugger?  They'll kick you.   This will increase their share of the battle fund.   So, you would be giving an extra reward to druggers, beyond their abnormally high scores due to drugging.  Drugging is bad enough now, please don't make it worse.

 

(3) Lower ranking players will ALWAYS be at a disadvantage when it comes to being kicked.   I don't like the idea of higher ranking players kicking lower ranking (honest) players from a game just because they can't keep up.   When I was at lower ranks I always sought out games with higher ranking players, because I thought that the competition would improve my skills faster.  (It did.)  Players will stop doing this and they will only want to play with equal or lower ranks.  Think about it.  If you were a low ranked player and a group of higher ranks kicked you out, even though you were trying to do as well as you could, you would be VERY angry.  If it happened more than once you might even quit Tanki altogether.

 

(4) As others have noted, players who are defending the flag, which usually reduces your score, will be making themselves vulnerable.    Defense is a critical part of the CTF game and I have often sacrificed my individual score for a team victory.   Players will not want to play defense under your system and this undermines teamwork.  It will be every player for themselves.  In order to keep their individual scores high, they may end up losing the game by leaving the flag undefended.

 

(5) Finally there is the problem of raiders.   We have all seen this: you are in a battle and a group of high-ranking druggers swoops in and steals the victory.   Under your system, you not only do you have to worry about raiders coming in on the other team, now you have to worry about them coming in on your own team and then kicking you.   If there is enough time on the clock, and they are continuously drugging, they could  run their scores up high enough to do this.   Many times I have seen raiders enter in the middle of a game and end up with all the highest scores at the end.  This would be a really big problem in 60 minutes games.

 

 

(6) Under the old system of kicking I got unfairly kicked many times near the end of a game by players working as a group and trying to raise their share of the battle fund.    I recognize the problem of not being able to kick mults, but your solution could re-introduce the problem of unethical kicking, which, as I said before, is much more painful to deal with.   One feels utterly betrayed.

 

*****

 

In conclusion, I feel that I'd rather deal with mults than with druggers and raiders abusing your new kicking system.  Mults are annoying but druggers and raiders are a MUCH bigger problem and your kick system just gives them one more weapon to abuse honest players with.

 

I know you say the system has safeguards, but given enough time on the clock and enough drugs, non-drugging honest players will simply not be able to keep up with a group of druggers, and the honest players will get unfairly kicked, which is MUCH worse than losing because you had a mult or two on your team.

 

*****

 

However, I'd support doing an "experiment" for a week and then let people comment on a forum.   That worked well with the last upgrade.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Thanks for your feedback, I appreciate the effort.

 

(1) A smart mult will learn to play just well enough to get above the minimum level to avoid getting kicked.   The effect is the same ... they weaken their team.

Unless you're some kind of savant, you won't know the kind of score you need to be above 55% of the team averages but let's say you did, scoring enough means you're no longer a mult according to this system. Before, mults were allowed to do nothing, with this system they're not. Is that a bad thing or a good thing?

 

 

(2) What if you find yourself in a game where your teammates are constantly drugging, and you are not a drugger?  They'll kick you.   This will increase their share of the battle fund.   So, you would be giving an extra reward to druggers, beyond their abnormally high scores due to drugging.  Drugging is bad enough now, please don't make it worse.
 

Drugging is not against the rules but you'll find it's very difficult for someone truly playing to score less than 55% of the average team values in terms of score and work-rate. But if this is your concern and you think that you can't compete in supply battles, simply don't play in them! The choice is yours.

 

 

(3) Lower ranking players will ALWAYS be at a disadvantage when it comes to being kicked.   I don't like the idea of higher ranking players kicking lower ranking (honest) players from a game just because they can't keep up.   When I was at lower ranks I always sought out games with higher ranking players, because I thought that the competition would improve my skills faster.  (It did.)  Players will stop doing this and they will only want to play with equal or lower ranks.  Think about it.  If you were a low ranked player and a group of higher ranks kicked you out, even though you were trying to do as well as you could, you would be VERY angry.  If it happened more than once you might even quit Tanki altogether.

Yes, if you are a low ranker, you should give consideration to the battle you are joining. If you can compete honestly with high rankers then you have nothing to worry about but if you are staying in a game regardless and are hopelessly below average then you are playing dishonestly. You can't be both honest and uncompetitive. But no low ranker is going to quit Tanki altogether because they got kicked by high rankers. Lower ranks have the luxury to select battles where their rank is the highest rank whereas, Field Marshals, Commanders and Generalisimos have very little say in the matter. Why should high rankers, who have been playing in a battle that has been raging for a couple of hours have to suffer a WO5 joining their game? There quite rightly should be a mechanism to boot this player. But that said, if the WO5 can compete to a standard set here then he has nothing to worry about.

 

 

(4) As others have noted, players who are defending the flag, which usually reduces your score, will be making themselves vulnerable.    Defense is a critical part of the CTF game and I have often sacrificed my individual score for a team victory.   Players will not want to play defense under your system and this undermines teamwork.  It will be every player for themselves.  In order to keep their individual scores high, they may end up losing the game by leaving the flag undefended.

 

No, I don't buy this one now, especially after update 294. Flag sitters will have opportunities to score just as much as anyone else if not more. It would be very difficult not to stay in the one of the two safe zones. But lets say you're flag sitting and all you see are tumble weeds and no enemies, that's your sign right there to change your strategy.  Anyway, the type of players who perform these tasks shouldn't do them if they think they are in danger of being kicked. Tanki have given you ways to adapt in a battle so adapt. Better to do this than 1 mult or saboteur spoil a game for 9 other people which is the case now.

 

 

(5) Finally there is the problem of raiders.   We have all seen this: you are in a battle and a group of high-ranking druggers swoops in and steals the victory.   Under your system, you not only do you have to worry about raiders coming in on the other team, now you have to worry about them coming in on your own team and then kicking you.   If there is enough time on the clock, and they are continuously drugging, they could  run their scores up high enough to do this.   Many times I have seen raiders enter in the middle of a game and end up with all the highest scores at the end.  This would be a really big problem in 60 minutes games.
 

If you did the maths then you'll find this would be very difficult to do. First off, what raiders do is not against the rules. Secondly, they would have to do an awful lot of work to ensure that your score AND work-rate falls to below 55% of the team average. Give me some numbers or an example! You'll find you cannot do this easily. And thirdly, if you really don't like raiders, note the last update changed the game durations. Choose your game carefully.

 

 

(6) Under the old system of kicking I got unfairly kicked many times near the end of a game by players working as a group and trying to raise their share of the battle fund.    I recognize the problem of not being able to kick mults, but your solution could re-introduce the problem of unethical kicking, which, as I said before, is much more painful to deal with.   One feels utterly betrayed.
 

I'm not saying this won't happen but you'll find that it's nothing like the old system. The likelihood of this happening now is very remote if everyone is in the right battle for their rank, tank and skill level. But maybe there is room for improvement in this area of the suggestion. I'll give it some thought. Any ideas?

 

 

In conclusion, I feel that I'd rather deal with mults than with druggers and raiders abusing your new kicking system.  Mults are annoying but druggers and raiders are a MUCH bigger problem and your kick system just gives them one more weapon to abuse honest players with.

Mults are against the rules whereas druggers and raiders are not. This system protects honest players.

As I said before, this is the crux of the matter. Can you be uncompetitive and honest? Staying a battle where you are being detrimental to your teammates is dishonest. You have to draw the line somewhere and that line is 55%!

 

 

 

[Canadian_Bandit 81]

Yes I agree with  @AbsoluteZero

Like all the rest of the updates (new thing added or taken away) from our game.

We will get a few that don't like and a few that does.

I say bring on the New Kick 2 system !! .

And let the people  decide for themselves  and then a vote. 

Tank On Tankers

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

^^^^ Well said ^^^^  AZ  I feel it is better to upset the minority of players that  will be forced to change their game play style, by this, as opposed to allow almost all the games to be constantly ruined by mults and saboteurs, especially since the latest update. This may not be a perfect solution but it is vastly better then what we have now, which is nothing. And if nothing else it gives the devs some ideas, because the one thing we can all agree on, I feel fairly confident in saying, is that something needs to be done. It is true that this problem mainly affects the high rank players and that Tanki's focus is to keep new players coming back but I hope they remember that any player that leaves is potentially bad publicity if they leave dissatisfied with the treatment they receive. And not doing anything about the problems that the high rank players now face is very dissatisfying.

[DonutsForLife 292]

This is THE BEST idea i've ever seen in tanki!

 

then i can play a nice battle, with other WO4's, and not have a nooby come and mess up our whole team...

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

This is THE BEST idea i've ever seen in tanki!

 

then i can play a nice battle, with other WO4's, and not have a nooby come and mess up our whole team...

That's not how this works. If a Sergeant wants to play in your game and he can compete to a percentage of the team average then there is nothing you can do about it. He would be playing the game honestly and and competing and therefore accorded protection under this system.

[aBdUlLaHkInGg 39]

Alright,quite OK,will try this on a mult sometime.

[Co437 54]

Absolute Zero:

 

I have read your thoughtful responses to my concerns (see my previous post) and I am satisfied with them.

 

I still don't agree with all your points but your arguments are persuasive enough to have substantially reduced my concerns. 

 

No I "haven't done the math" and that really is the key issue in this debate. 

 

But the "math" (parameters below which a kick is permitted) can always be tinkered with if adjustments are needed to reduce the likelihood of unethical kicking.

 

*****

 

I fully support a test of your new system with a week- long "experiment" with a discussion forum so everyone can comment on it.

[akhmatova 2]

 

 

No, I don't buy this one now, especially after update 294. Flag sitters will have opportunities to score just as much as anyone else if not more. It would be very difficult not to stay in the one of the two safe zones. But lets say you're flag sitting and all you see are tumble weeds and no enemies, that's your sign right there to change your strategy.  Anyway, the type of players who perform these tasks shouldn't do them if they think they are in danger of being kicked. Tanki have given you ways to adapt in a battle so adapt. Better to do this than 1 mult or saboteur spoil a game for 9 other people which is the case now.

 

 

 

I don't know what things are like at Generalissimo level, but at my level, sitting on the flag and getting no points, is a great way to win a CTF game. I have seen many, many, many CTF games where a mammoth sitting on the flag with freeze, plus an isida, worked together to prevent flags being taken, which won the game. Capture the Flag is about getting flags, and preventing the other team from getting flags, not about getting kills. 

 

The point system currently only measures getting kills and capping the flag (with a minor update recently). It still doesnt measure everything that is useful for actually winning CTF. Including

 

Mining

 

Sacrificing yourself to blow up an enemy Thunder (run up against them and they self-destruct with their own damage, something you dont get points for)

 

Blocking enemy shots that would otherwise hit the flag carrier (you die, you get no points, flag carrier gets alot)

 

Distracting enemy flag guarders so one of your flag stealers can get away with the enemy flag. (no way to even measure this)

 

etc etc etc.

 

The entire theory of using score to kick people is based on the idea that the scoring system is perfect, which it isnt. No scoring systems are perfect. Its called Campbell's Law

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbell%27s_law

 

Maybe this is a good idea for Generalissimo level players, who just want to play against each other, and the difference of one player can be a big deal, but for lower ranks there are many, problems that will happen. 

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

I don't know what things are like at Generalissimo level, but at my level, sitting on the flag and getting no points, is a great way to win a CTF game.

It simply doesn't happen and especially now after update 294. Why would you want to flag sit if you get 0 pts? Are you playing with friends? If so, why would they kick you? Doesn't add up any more this one.

 

I can do all the things you mention with this and my noob account and I do pretty well out of it.  There are no excuses for not getting above 55% of the team average score or work-rate values, none!

[akhmatova 2]

you may be correct about many things, i just do not want tanki to become "Abercrombie and Fitch the video game"

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abercrombie_%26_Fitch

 

"In January 2006, CEO Mike Jeffries made the following comments to an interviewer for Salon.com: "That's why we hire good-looking people in our stores. Because good-looking people attract other good-looking people, and we want to market to cool, good-looking people. We don't market to anyone other than that." ... "In every school there are the cool and popular kids, and then there are the not-so-cool kids. Candidly, we go after the cool kids. We go after the attractive all-American kid with a great attitude and a lot of friends. A lot of people don't belong [in our clothes], and they can't belong. Are we exclusionary? Absolutely.""

[DonutsForLife 292]

That's not how this works. If a Sergeant wants to play in your game and he can compete to a percentage of the team average then there is nothing you can do about it. He would be playing the game honestly and and competing and therefore accorded protection under this system.

I said a "nooby" seargent, if a pro one joins, i'm fine with that...

[WarMonkey51Austin 68]

Nice, but I want to take about 4 minute breaks

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Nice, but I want to take about 4 minute breaks

And you can without any problems whatsoever provided you don't take it when you haven't bothered much in the battle. Do some work first and you'll be fine.

[robke866 2]

Awesome job by creating this mate! I really miss the kick system, i want it back, it would be great to have this in tanki ! =)

[Canadian_Bandit 81]

Awesome job by creating this mate! I really miss the kick system, i want it back, it would be great to have this in tanki ! =)

Sure will mate !!

[j_dog_XXX 36]

WE should SO do this!

[fufususumumu1 240]

this helps against below average players, but what about over average? i know you can send vid and all, but most of the time people dont have the time, permission or resources to do that. is there anyway do determine a cheater without getting the do-gooders in trouble?

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

this helps against below average players, but what about over average? i know you can send vid and all, but most of the time people dont have the time, permission or resources to do that. is there anyway do determine a cheater without getting the do-gooders in trouble?

Above average on it's own is not an indication of cheating. This is a kick system for players who acting like mults and can't help with what you describe.

[RustyNail 1,538]

Hey guys, anything new? Any respond from Devs or they are all busy organizing the Christmas sales?