Player's Moderation: Kick2

[dfoofnik 341]

I think the main problem with any "vote the mults off" is that it means the players have to pause their playing, to report these things.

A one-button moderator call would be the perfect idea, but there are never the right number of moderators at the right times.

That was why some suggested a quasi-automated kick system in the first place. But any solution, even a partial one, would be welcome.

[fufususumumu1 240]

@rohr: I do not like the idea of downvoting posts In the first place, just because they do not suit their opinions, so when people try to play that game, I just play along  :)

if you look more carefully at others posts, you will see that I have not only used it for upvoting myself

@dfoonik: first lets try to get kick2 implemented, and then on other systems like you mentioned.

but I don't understand the reason why scores should be accumulated only after latecomers have joined (correct if im wrong)

multing is so common because its easy to do. if we take away the 'easy' from multing, its definitely going to lead to a decline. two ways are either by the kick system or programming changes to recognize and kick mults out immediately, like you said before. but the second option is pretty difficult to achieve, so we have to rely on kick for now.

[Pathfinder 1,690]

Reached 250 likes! :p

 

If there are any russian speakers, maybe... It might be an idea to get this translated and posted to the russian forum?

[fufususumumu1 240]

wait, dont they have this already?

maybe this was one of the reasons why we couldn't keep momentum going. russian community is very strong and might even help us to get this system in the game.

[NedFighter 408]

UP

[dfoofnik 341]

 two ways are either by the kick system or programming changes to recognize and kick mults out immediately, like you said before. but the second option is pretty difficult to achieve, so we have to rely on kick for now.

Yes, but sometimes "manual" kicking comes too late.

On the DE1 server, three or four players decided to gang up on someone by adding mults to the Red team, then dropping them after they had a 4 to 1 advantage. Kicking would have left the same situation. They quickly had a 0-4 lead.

 

Unfortunately for the schemers, the Red guy (and me) left when this happened, and then worlds collided:

2 minutes later there were 3 raiders on the Red Team beating the Blues like a rug. When the score reached 4-4, a whole slew of new players joined, so the original perpetrators got just a handful of crystals for their ill-gotten gains, losing 6-4. I got more than all of them combined!

[dfoofnik 341]

Unfortunately, not so here (a typical zero player although just one):

http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l640/dfoofnik/mult%20in%20Monte%20Carlo.jpg

The inactive player made it 6 players against 5 (at best).

[RustyNail 1,538]

Joining late is legal. The problem is that (like mults), it includes actions that are not fair or just. There is a separate proposal to limit players' rewards to those scores that accrued after the players joined. This could be harder than Kick to get passed, but it is possible to do with the existing programming.

 

The problem with these types of behavior is that they occur very quickly, making it undetectable to most players...but not to the servers.

Along with Kick2, there would need to be a standalone process to remove players who join and exit battles without participating, in order to bypass the "join the smaller team" restrictions -- as with mults, some people have found a way around the programming, to the detriment of the other players and the game as a whole.

 

Today in a battle I started feeling like my team got shorter. I accessed battle data (tab) and there where 5 players of ours for 7 opponents. Suddenly, an 8th player appeared  in the opposing team while on our team the number remained stable, at 5....

Standard battle, autobalance. I think that there has been a way to bypass autobalance.... and except from video proof, nothing can alert players, unless they happen to watch battle data at exactly that time.

[Rohrmeister 1,535]

Suddenly, an 8th player appeared  in the opposing team while on our team the number remained stable, at 5....

Standard battle, autobalance. I think that there has been a way to bypass autobalance....

well there really is a way that I heard is used sometimes:

1) The enemy team places mult-tanks in the smaller team to make it even,

2) The enemy team can now get in a "new, real player"

3) Them mult-tanks are removed again in no time

 

You can't do much about this for a particular battle.. as the measurable effect of these mults it is too close to a player

- that really wants to play

- and that gets an invite via a side channel (open skype chat) and leaves

- or that simply things again about the battle he wants to play and leaves

 

As long as you are not forced to stay some minutes (time to proove) you can't do much. But honestly I think it would be wrong to force players to stay in.

 

Of course you could identify them via statstics but the identification would be rather unprecise and produce a lot of false-positives.

[RustyNail 1,538]

well there really is a way that I heard is used sometimes:

1) The enemy team places mult-tanks in the smaller team to make it even,

2) The enemy team can now get in a "new, real player"

3) Them mult-tanks are removed again in no time

 

You can't do much about this for a particular battle.. as the measurable effect of these mults it is too close to a player

- that really wants to play

- and that gets an invite via a side channel (open skype chat) and leaves

- or that simply things again about the battle he wants to play and leaves

 

As long as you are not forced to stay some minutes (time to proove) you can't do much. But honestly I think it would be wrong to force players to stay in.

 

Of course you could identify them via statstics but the identification would be rather unprecise and produce a lot of false-positives.

 

No, that wasn't what happened.

I tell you, I had the tab button pressed and I watched the bigger team increased without ever our team getting a new player, not even for a second. It was live, not a series of battle data tables... No human can enter and leave a battle that fast and my ping is more than enough (usually fps around 50-60 and ping around 40) to show even the smallest changes in battle data...

I had that suspision for some weeks but this time I happen to witness it.

[Rohrmeister 1,535]

Oh thats interresting!

 

 

 

Some unproven susoicions:

- Can Moderators do that? -> so maybe there is a hack that pretends to be a mod..

- Or maybe autobalance is a feature that is evaluated and executed only by the Flash Client. So a modified client would allow you to join every side.

- Maybe the side you join in part of your URL.. so if you can decode it.. you can also puzzle an URL that allows you to join which ever side you want.

 

 

[RustyNail 1,538]

Oh thats interresting!

 

 

 

Some unproven susoicions:

- Can Moderators do that? -> so maybe there is a hack that pretends to be a mod..

- Or maybe autobalance is a feature that is evaluated and executed only by the Flash Client. So a modified client would allow you to join every side.

- Maybe the side you join in part of your URL.. so if you can decode it.. you can also puzzle an URL that allows you to join which ever side you want.

 

 

 

I believe a mod, or maybe a dev, can enter a battle even contrary to autobalance, should they want to. I 'm not implying that it was a mod or a dev (no reason to be such), but I say that if a dev can do it then it's tecnically posible.

Besides, although I am not an expert in MMOg software, I guess there are multiple ways to overide the autobalance....

It would be a very good thing if someone took a video from the battle stats for the whole battle, but it's unfair too, for the home team. They would have to play minus one player and probably lose...

[beaku 2,656]

I believe a mod, or maybe a dev, can enter a battle even contrary to autobalance, should they want to. I 'm not implying that it was a mod or a dev (no reason to be such), but I say that if a dev can do it then it's tecnically posible.

Besides, although I am not an expert in MMOg software, I guess there are multiple ways to overide the autobalance....

It would be a very good thing if someone took a video from the battle stats for the whole battle, but it's unfair too, for the home team. They would have to play minus one player and probably lose...

It could have been a glitch. After all, there have been cases in which there were more than maximum number of players allowed per team! (For example, 4 players in a team in island whilst 3 is max limit). So, have you experienced this on more than one occasions?

[fufususumumu1 240]

It could have been a glitch. After all, there have been cases in which there were more than maximum number of players allowed per team! (For example, 4 players in a team in island whilst 3 is max limit). So, have you experienced this on more than one occasions?

 

agreed. this problem must be the same one as the sandbox example, where only 4 players were allowed in a tdm/ ctf, but somehow a 5TH player managed to join in. i dont know if kick2 can manage to stop this, as this probably is just another hack.

[dfoofnik 341]

It would be a very good thing if someone took a video from the battle stats for the whole battle, but it's unfair too, for the home team. They would have to play minus one player and probably lose...

I had to do this once to catch a troll (you know the name), and I videoed half the game on one team, half the game on the other.

But that was imperfect because you affect each team in a slightly different way.

The best thing to do if you see this happen, is to use your video on the same battle when it refreshes, from the battles list,

and see if the same player commits the same infraction (and it is a ban-able infraction like any other hack).

[dfoofnik 341]

No, that wasn't what happened.

I tell you, I had the tab button pressed and I watched the bigger team increased without ever our team getting a new player, not even for a second. It was live, not a series of battle data tables... No human can enter and leave a battle that fast and my ping is more than enough (usually fps around 50-60 and ping around 40) to show even the smallest changes in battle data...

I had that suspision for some weeks but this time I happen to witness it.

Same thing happened here, and I didn't see any mults : Red team had 7, Blue team had 7, and suddenly Red had 9.

This may be some new hack.

Take a look at the roster and see if anyone looks familiar.

http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/dfoofnik/media/JoinHack%20Maybe.jpg.html

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

can we keep this on topic please.

[dfoofnik 341]

Well, if we're going to remove mults and trolls, so we have all real players, but they're outnumbered anyway...well that's definitely a consideration.

Cut off a head of the snake and it grows another one. This does not diminish the need for kickability, but I think that has already been talked to death and accepted by the majority of commenting players. We need to press for its adoption ASAP. Then move on  to other abuses that ruin the game for honest players.

 

UPDATE: Saw this again on Madness: 3 mults on Red, another 2 mults appear for a *split second* to allow 2 players to join the leading Blue team. So it is part and parcel of the mult problem.

[FallenArchie 5]

The mult problem is getting worse, also in the lower ranks. Today I attempt to play 2 battles but all lose due to mults. This match shows we were winning, then suddenly so many players leave and we were outnumbered. I started Tanki due to recommendation from my friend in RL, now I don't feel like I should play much. :angry: :angry: :angry:

 

What's the point of being top scorers when your team members didn't help you at all?

 

[r_priyangshu0 270]

Wow...I cannot believe the number of raiders and lopsided games due to mults even in the lower ranks (WOs) today. I played a few games on my alt, trying to do something worthwhile, but no...., raiders and mults exist in every rank, druggers exist in every rank. I believe the objective of the game is flawed. It tells you to cheat,pay, literally do anything for success including disregarding others, and forget jack about excellence. Unfortunately, all of this makes me say, this game is a MISTAKE. It is not good for physical nor mental health, and fun is nonexistent in this game.

 

'Don't go after success, go after excellence. Success will run towards you.'

 

A good quote, unfortunately disregarded in Tanki Online.

[RustyNail 1,538]

Wow...I cannot believe the number of raiders and lopsided games due to mults even in the lower ranks (WOs) today. I played a few games on my alt, trying to do something worthwhile, but no...., raiders and mults exist in every rank, druggers exist in every rank. I believe the objective of the game is flawed. It tells you to cheat,pay, literally do anything for success including disregarding others, and forget jack about excellence. Unfortunately, all of this makes me say, this game is a MISTAKE. It is not good for physical nor mental health, and fun is nonexistent in this game.

 

'Don't go after success, go after excellence. Success will run towards you.'

 

A good quote, unfortunately disregarded in Tanki Online.

 

I don't know how old are you, I am old enough to have grown up playing actual games with physical company / friends. I mean, not pc or internet games.

Games - even the competitive ones - where about fun. They where about making everybody happy, not just the winners. And to do so, winners didn't compete for funds but for glory. If actual games had prizes made of power then the winners would get that power and become stronger, and thus most certain to win again.

But what is the motive for a gamer? Is it virtual currency? Nope. It's threefold; fun / selfaccomplishing / recognition. One plays to have fun, to accomplish something and to be recognised for that.

Why Tanki has turned it so much towards power? Why did it aloud it to become fight-for-crystals-only?

I don't mean to accuse Tanki for that (as if they meant to do so) but to ring a bell and say "look, people really care about fun, accomplishment and recognition, not just power".

 

I watch in vlogs some captures from Tanki HQ, and I see young people. I don't know if there are actually older people in there, but if you, guys are the top age in there, you have grown in a world unbalanced and greedy. Don't let it be your guide in designing this game. People are not all about power. You can make a better game by implementing fair game, nobility and prizes that are not in Tanki currency (that will aloud winners to buy more power and thus create a self-feeding circle).

 

What have all these to do with mults? But it's obvious, isn't it? Mults are the answer to call for power no matter what. They exist because players don't care for fair game. If that call didn't existed, then mults would become less.

[r_priyangshu0 270]

I don't know how old are you, I am old enough to have grown up playing actual games with physical company / friends. I mean, not pc or internet games.

I too play many games with my friends in school etc, it is a lot of fun, especially when losing or winning don't matter. It is far more fun than this game atm.

 

Age-

 

 

Preteen

 

 

 

[ollooIIo 24]

This was excruciating to play.  These players couldn't care less that they were being so patently obvious.

 

[ollooIIo 24]

TO devs.  If you care about TO and it's future, if you really care, then implement Kick 2.

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

This was excruciating to play.  These players couldn't care less that they were being so patently obvious.

 

WOW  a Raiding party at it's best.

 

 

Tanki this is a prime example of what your game is turning into. As much as I hate to say it, it was better when we had crystal boxes. At least we didn't have these huge groups roaming the servers who's goal is to raid battle funds.  "Crystal grabbers" were bad but these "raiding parties" are worse. Even KICK2 would not help here.  

 

@ollooIIo, do you have other screenshots or video to establish a timeline? If you do you can report them. PM me if you need help, I know you are fairly new to the forum.