Interview [Issue 29] A New Kick System: AbsoluteZero

[Pathfinder 1,690]

Tanki is a game that is constantly improving and advancing, especially due to the huge amount of effort by developers put into removing problems found by players, keeping a constant watch on the forum for new ideas, and developing new updates and features to the already awesome game. However, although the technical problems are in the hands of the developers and can be easily fixed, as with all games, some problems are due to the players themselves, and are outside the developers' control.

Yes, I'm talking about multiple accounts, commonly referred to as 'mults', and saboteurs. Mults are second accounts made by some tankers, which are used to join the other team in a game, where they are used for sabotage. Even if they do nothing, they are still occupying a valuable space on that team. Sometimes, these people aren't mults, and simply like to sabotage the game for either friends on the opposing team, or, sadly, just to annoy people.

As result of this problem, many members of the community have made efforts to raise awareness of this issue, and have worked hard to find possible solutions. One such member is @AbsoluteZero, who has spent time designing and modifying a new system to deal with mults, and I am lucky to have him today to talk more about it.
____________________________________________________________________________________


When did the problem arise and what prompted you to make your suggestion?

The problem certainly existed in the early part of my Tanki career but I didn't notice it as much as I do now. I took some comfort after hearing the news in vlog5 about the relative successes of the /vote chat command but I soon found out, after many failed calls for help, the violator mods couldn't be everywhere at once.

The final straw for me was one blatant instance of sabotage back in August where I called for help and none came. One of the players on my team was working with his friends on the enemy side. They didn't engage each other which meant the honest players were cheated out of the battle fund. This was when I knew a new Kick solution had to be suggested.

I've played hard and bought plenty of crystals to get my current rank of Generalissimo and have a garage that would be the envy of many but there is nothing in my arsenal that can effectively deal with mults and saboteurs in real time.

How often do you see this problem?

Since the rank of Brigadier, game violations have seemed to increase proportionately with every rank-up thereafter making honest battles harder to find. Some days I could spend an hour trying to find an existing battle where I see all players competing fairly. Have you ever tried to join a friend in battle and waited patiently for a space? Have you ever wondered about those players who are sitting at the bottom of the scoreboard with little or no points for the last 10 minutes? We've all been there!

The last kick system was removed because it was too easy to kick innocent players from the team, in what ways is your system an improvement?

Yes, the last system was on the right track but it just needed tweaking to make it work. Mainly with the help of Canadian_Eh and feedback from the EN community in the forum, we decided that the best way forward was to add a work-rate element to the raw scores and then comparing each of those aspects to the average team performance values.

So, could you briefly describe your new system?

Kick2 continuously assesses your teammates’ contributions in a battle in terms of score and work-rate. Team averages are worked-out and from those, two personalized safe-zones are calculated, one for your score and one for your work-rate.

If both your score and work rate fall below these zones, (below 55% of the team average), then your presence is deemed to be virtually indistinguishable from that of a saboteur or mult. Other members of the team, should they feel the need, would be able to issue you enough votes to put you on probation. Once on probation, you have a brief opportunity to improve or be kicked.

How does it protect against innocent tankers?

Well that all depends on how you define innocent! This is where the crux of the matter lies doesn't it? The question should be - Are you completely innocent if you trying but are not competitive enough? I think in this game you can't be both innocent and uncompetitive because if you're not competing and you're staying in a battle regardless then you're ultimately playing dishonestly and failing your teammates. I believe consideration should be given by every player when entering a battle.

With that said, Kick2 does not require you to be an expert or average tanker to be safe from being voted for. You will also find it is also okay to be well below average, but, if your contribution is exceptionally poor compared to the rest of your team then you might find you will get voted for.

Kick2 is extremely well balanced and the clever part is how it determines the safe zones and who gets protection. For example, You can have a poor score but a good work-rate and you'll be safe. Or, you can a poor work-rate but a good score and be safe. The ones to worry are the ones not concentrating on playing!

How does the voting work?

Imagine there are 10 players including you on a team then 5 kick-votes are needed for kicking (divide the number of players by 2 essentially). There are two types of vote, a ‘score vote’ and a ‘work-rate vote’, (I refer to this as a ppmVote in the topic), each are worth ½ a kick-vote.

If you are in your safe-zone for your score then you are allowed to vote against those who are considered to be unsafe in score. Similarly, if you are in your safe-zone for work-rate then you are allowed to vote against those who are considered to be unsafe in work-rate. Basically, if you see a Kick icon next to a players name then you are able to vote for them. When you vote the system will consider your own standing first with regard to your score and your work-rate before issuing the player with a ½ or 1 full kick-vote.

Once someone gets enough votes they are notified and put on probation. They then get a short time in which to improve their contribution and should they fail to climb back into one of the safe zones then they are kicked from the battle, unable to rejoin. Players can only come back from probation once!

Could you give us an example of your system in action?

Scenario: 9 players have been in a battle for 10 minutes and have all scored 200pts each. This means their average score is 200pts and their average work-rate is 20 points per minute (ppm for short). 55% of these values is 110pts and 11ppm respectively. Let’s say you have joined the battle a little late and have been there for 8 minutes and have amassed 100pts. Because you have scored less than 110pts, you could get a maximum 4½ kick-votes against your name from the other 9 players. However, your work-rate will save you because that works out to 12.5 ppm. Therefore you cannot receive the 5 full votes necessary to put you on probation. Remember, you are only truly at risk of being kicked when both your score and your work-rate drops out of the safe zones.

Above scenario:

 

Where can we go if we wish to contribute to this project?

Feedback is always welcome in the forum
http://en.tankiforum...howtopic=217642

There you will find the topic in detail, answers to FAQ’s and responses to concerns raised during discussion.

Even if there are no plans to reintroduce a kick system any time soon, players should continue to get involved to make it as simple and flawless as possible. Hopefully it will provide the developers with some ideas should they feel the need to address the problem In the future.

Alright, that's about all. Thanks for giving me the chance to interview you! I hope to see more discussion about this problem and your suggested solution to it!

Edited July 30, 2017 by Hexed

[hogree 4,179]

Really really interesting. Would love to see this trialled!

[Promissory 569]

I hope they implement this :)

I think it would be nice to bring crystal boxes with this :D

Edited December 1, 2014 by Promissory

[greyat 2,972]

Nice...

It's really come a long way to here...

[babitaarun 1]

Awesome I wish tanki make it in the game

[jazz20 1,181]

If crystal boxes aren't in the game anymore, than what do the mults look for now? Battle fund rewards?

[Drogor 8]

This is badly needed, Please impliment a trial run as soon as possible

[general_abrams 424]

Yes, a new kick system would definitely would make sense.
Although not many of these mults are seen at my rank, there a a few, and I see people talking and thinking about it all the time, so you know that it won't be long.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Thanks Kirby2008 for the interview. :D

 

@AbsoluteZero

@Canadian_Eh

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

If crystal boxes aren't in the game anymore, than what do the mults look for now? Battle fund rewards?

Yes, Now there is even more of an incentive to make sure a team loses. Raiding has increased, and a raiding party's success would be greatly reduced without the use of "mults".  Raiding, in and of itself, is not against the rules but stacking the teams with the use of mults, to aid in the raid, is.

 

Nice article. 

[Canadian_Bandit 81]

What a great article...

You all know we need this kick 2 system to be place in our beloved game .

Thanks ;)  go out to players @AbsoluteZero and @Canadian_Eh for makin this new kick 2 system .

Now we just have to get in place into the games.

tank on tankers.... :D

[llFKFll 14]

Kick2 System could Save Tanki's Gameplay and REALLY help admins in them work, letting them focus on More productiv things than running after unfair players.

It will Bring Back all fair players that left because of the mults and Raiders, So many of us ( such as myself) Stopped buying Crystals because of the mults ruinning the game , THis was a huge loss of incomes to Tanki u can believe me (invested above 600$ in Crys before Raids crisis became a real plague).

 

See Kick2 system fiability, try all scenarii ull want, Result will EVER be far better than Without it.

Kick2 is Like Chuck Norris, Its Tanki's and our Savior.

Dont Say No To Chuck If u want a Happy end to this crisis And Tanki Reputation at it Zenith, it have a such potential.....

 

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/725802ChuckZeroVsFKFanimated02.gif
Rusty Relics, No Retreat is No Defeat.
 

Edited December 3, 2014 by llFKFll

[keenk2n 18]

grate think developers... i have kick out several times... don't know why!!!! just showing some massage box like "fraud playing detected" i lost lot of crys... 

 

thnx again developers 

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

grate think developers... i have kick out several times... don't know why!!!! just showing some massage box like "fraud playing detected" i lost lot of crys... 

 

thnx again developers 

Your issue has nothing to do with this idea.

 

You got kicked by the system because it thinks you where using some external software to give yourself an advantage.

[Truthteller 4,204]

Very good I have never faced mults at my ranks though. But I went once in a marshal And mults were everywhere. I hope this gets implemented and will help numerous players. This will be one of the best updates in tanki

[Time 57]

How about in xp bTTLES?

:fire_r:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:   :fire_l:

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

How about in xp bTTLES?

:fire_r:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:  :tank:   :fire_l:

This post is of no use to anyone. All the tanks are completely unnecessary.

[magnaboy2 656]

Your issue has nothing to do with this idea.

 

You got kicked by the system because it thinks you where using some external software to give yourself an advantage.

Isn't always like that,foul play can also happen when you're sitting on a tank,and the tank drives onto a mine and you fly a lil bit in the air,but while flying,you'll get foul play,which happens alot in parkour....

 

They should improve foul play also,and AbsoluteZero's idea about the mults is great :lol;

[Guest Maserati]

im still against it as there are nubs trying to learn, and when you create an acc you don't know how to kill steal and prob will get no kills. and friends might try make a person mult by not letting him do anything and blocking his path and stuff.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

im still against it as there are nubs trying to learn, and when you create an acc you don't know how to kill steal and prob will get no kills. and friends might try make a person mult by not letting him do anything and blocking his path and stuff.

Kill stealing has nothing to do with this. This system has nothing to do with the number of kills. It's based on score and time in game.

 

You need a kick system if there is multing going on in your games. Maybe someone will suggest one!

[Tanker1928374655 133]

Good topic :P

Edited December 6, 2014 by Tanker1928374655

[naca7 143]

Good topic :P

[fufususumumu1 240]

 

Yes, Now there is even more of an incentive to make sure a team loses. Raiding has increased, and a raiding party's success would be greatly reduced without the use of "mults".  Raiding, in and of itself, is not against the rules but stacking the teams with the use of mults, to aid in the raid, is.

 

Nice article. 

 

i personally feel not. because raiding is not a common event that anyone and everyone can do. cuz we live in a busy world, friends meeting up to raid a battle is not as likely as a person to multi as that "multer" can do it right then, right there when he is playing on his laptop just by opening a new tab and entering with alt accounts. even though there is more incentive to raid, there is less chance of it happening so as compared to mulling, cheating or any other single player methods

[fufususumumu1 240]

and i liked this topic. i wonder why tanki has not implemented it yet. everything which the "majority" doesn't want, like removing title names, private battle in pro battle etc. or removing chat violators section, is updated in the game. but things WHICH the "majority" wants like this system to be introduced, isn't added. if they had a valid reason for this, we would appreciate them, but the only response we get in relation to this article is "nice" -_-

[lukey0 27,543]

Sounds good, would love this to be trialled.