What's with all of the drugging, and very unbalanced teams?

[beeman10 8]

No, you apparently still don't get it.. .If you've read my post properly and actually have a desire to understand why drugs completely unbalances the game, you would've understood long time ago. But I'm pretty sure you don't. So I'm done explaining to you, and I surely don't want this topic turned into a meaningless flame war. Once you do feel like learning something about others, feel free to read my post again.

 

The bottom line is, when just one additional drugger on the other team will change the outcome of the battle by simply activating drugs, the system isn't fair.

 

The power of drugs need to be reduced.

 

I would stop feeding the troll. The argument he proposes is simple, flawed and unoriginal - if everyon else i doing it then why should'nt I. It's a circular argument and does not advance the discussion.

I think the debate centers around values. To me, it is inherently unfair because continual drugging will at some point require the gamer to spend money and not everybody is in this position. Additionally I would actively try to discourage players from doing this as they may not fully appreciate the consequences of spending money in online games - many people who play tanki are not old enough to have bank cards and so you must questions where funds are derived from. In the end I don't think its healthy. The game really should be about improving skills, learning to use different weapons, strategy. The very last thing that I want to think about when playing an online game is how much I need to spend in order to beat somebody else. To me, this makes victory in the game worthless.

i dont really subsribe to the win at all costs mentality - id rather win or lose in a balanaced game. It is just a game - and I wouldnt waste the cash or compromise my values for a hollow victory.

Edited November 18, 2014 by beeman10

[Leo9001 2]

I was done talking to him anyway. No point in explaining something to someone who doesn't want to listen. 

 

Some people buy drugs to use them whenever, some use drugs when needed, and some are saving their drugs for their own reasons. I am okay with all of that. I spending money in this game cause I personally love tanks, and I like many aspects of this game, so I support the developers. The advantage I have in equipment is significant, but it is definitely possible for other players to use strategy and teamwork to out play me and my team. But when I or anyone on my team drugs, even if it is just one person, and theres no one on the other team drugs, we can simply bum rush them and they won't even stand a chance. Absolutely no thinking involved here.  And that's the balancing problem with this game. The drugs are simply way to overpowered.

 

My suggestion stands: Significantly reduce the power of drugs.

[Holyman_Tanki 40]

No, look, I’m not into starting or propagating a Flame War here.

 

I’ve really enjoyed playing this Game over the last month, and have been more than happy to contribute real money to the Developers for doing such an excellent job. I would have done that anyway, even if I wasn’t going to receive any In-Game boost like crystals and power-ups.

 

What I particularly enjoy about this game is that I can play it with my six-year old son. It was actually him who introduced me to the game after a school-friend of his put him onto it.

 

Now a six-year old child playing this Game is not going to stand much of a chance against seasoned, twenty-something Gamers. Without the boost of power-ups, this would be a pretty miserable game for him to play. So, no worries: I can purchase in-game power-ups for him, which give him a chance of dealing damage, rather than just having to take it.

 

And frankly, if the argument being used by the Anti-Drug Brigade is that Drug Use is driving players away from the game; then I have to counter that without Power-Up Supplies, there would be far fewer children playing the game… And it’s player numbers that count, right..?

 

However, my big concern as a parent, is what to say to my son when other players in-Game are calling him a “drugger”/accusing him of “using drugs”. There is a lot of that, as we know, and it is the only thing that tarnishes my enjoyment of the game.

 

So I’m as keen as anyone to help reconcile the issues around Supplies/”Drugs” as anyone: hence my tenacity in this thread.

 

If it were a game that only I played, then I would have nothing but derision and contempt for those people whining about “drugging”. I would say that they are morons who do not understand viable business models in today’s Capitalist-dominated World. I would suggest that they just suck up their frustrations and paranoia (really? It’s always the *OTHER* team that is full of druggers? Never the one that you join? How unlucky is that..??!) and get over themselves. People purchasing crystals and buying supplies are subsidising the freeloaders. The whiners claim to want to “protect” the game by preventing people leaving because of all the “drugging”; but the reality is that their whining and antagonism is far more likely to drive away the casual playing-base and those who fund the game with purchases.

 

But I’m not the only person in my household playing this Game. My son is. And I suspect before too much longer, his younger brother will join him. Because, you know, this is a very enjoyable game, I think because it isn’t actual combat simulation. It is quite cartoonish, quite light-hearted, very “Arcade”. It’s a game that appeals to young and old alike. You don’t have to be super-skilled to play it; you just need good hand-to-eye coordination and reasonable reactions.

 

Supplies/”Power-Ups”/”Drugs” help level the playing field between all the twenty-something males with time, reflexes and energy on their side; and the very young, or middle-aged, who haven’t yet developed their coordination, or whose reflexes have been dulled by time.

 

The argument against “Drugs” goes like this:

 

Player A = Skill Level 7

Player B = Skill Level 4

 

Or:

 

Team A = Overall Skill Level 70

Team B = Overall Skill Level 40

 

Therefore:

 

Player A must always beat Player B; Team A must always beat Team B.

 

That is fair. That is right. That is proper. That is: The Way It Must Be.

 

But…

 

Power-ups/”Drugs” gives a double advantage, so that:

 

Player A = Skill Level 7

Player B = (Skill Level 4) x 2 = Skill Level 8

 

Or:

 

Team A = Overall Skill Level 70

Team B = (Overall Skill Level 40) x 2 = Overall Skill Level 80

 

Which means that, with “Drugs”:

 

Player B will always beat Player A; Team B will always beat Team A.

 

And that’s just wrong. That just shouldn’t be allowed. Drugs are bad, mmm’kay…

 

But the thing is…

 

Whilst it is possible for children and us middle-aged folk to get our hands on supplies/”drugs”; it is not possible for the kids to rapidly develop competitive hand-to-eye coordination and reflexes, and sadly impossible for us middle-aged folks to recover the priapic responsiveness we may have once had in our youth.

 

So if “drugs” weren’t available to the less-skilled players, then the most-skilled players would always dominate. In every game round. All the time. Every match. Without exception…

 

That would be totally miserable and utterly off-putting to those of us who lack such awesomely attractive Tanki-playing skills. And so we would stop playing. And Tanki Online would go the same way as so many other games that end-up dominated by obsessive players that never permit “Noobs” a look in.

 

And, you know, it is all about keeping as many players as possible playing Tanki, isn’t it..?

 

:unsure:

[BenelliSuper90 7]

I'm still seeing the same people daily at the top of the score in the battles that drug every chance they get.  It's taking all of the fun, and makes the game very one sided.  1-2 druggers on one team can, and do change the outcome all of the time.  When someone has a score of 500-600+ in a 15 minute battle, that's a sure sign that they are drugging anytime that they can.  Most of the time the battles are never a contest at all, because the druggers take them over, and do anything they can to win.  I guess they don't understand that many of us can't afford to spend money daily to buy drugs, so it takes forever to level up, and get enough crystals to improve our hulls, and guns.  Yeah it's just a game, and games are supposed to be fun, but it's no fun when you are constantly up against a bunch of druggers.  Drugging takes no skill at all, just money, and the ability to press the right number key to use them.  The Pro battles are way over priced, so that's not an option for many of us trying to save the few crystals that we get to improve our equipment.  The devs don't seem to care that their game is very unfair to the people that can't spend hundreds of dollars per week, or month.  The devs also don't care about the cheating that goes on in many battles.  In order to prove cheating is going on, they want screen shots, and/or videos, which are next to impossible to get while playing, and you have to play to see what is going on.  If you stop to take a screenshot, you will more than likely be killed in one shot by some drugger.  It seems like a no win situation.  The drugs are way to powerful, and I've found that most of the druggers are higher ranks than me, and they can't stand to lose.  They need to be humbled in some way, but the devs don't seem to care about anything anymore except a constant flow of money from the spenders.  It's gotten to the point that I don't hardly play anymore, because I can't spend daily, or weekly 95% of the time, and I'm sick of being target practice for the druggers.  Tanki needs to put all of the druggers, and big spenders on one server, and let them fight each other, and leave the rest of us alone.  I like competitive games that are close, not just big time blow outs, usually caused by a huge amount of drugs being used.  Just because someone is lower ranked means nothing about their skill level, so that argument is invalid.  Tanki should take into account for battles not only rank, but also levels of hulls, and guns.  M0, and M1 hulls, and guns don't stand a chance against most of the M2, and up guns, and hulls.  It seems like the higher the rank on most people, the more they drug.  They are just using money to buy wins, ranks, and better equipment.  I've already quit playing 3-4 other online games that were completely taken over by  wallet warriors, and Tanki is soon to be on that list.

[r_Zesx0 39]

I'm to the point that I just leave a game, if the other team is drugging non-stop.  I'm sick of it, because it gives the big money spenders a huge advanage.  Also, why am I seeing so many battles that are so unbalanced from one team to the next?  Something has to be done to keep the battles competitive.  If I see a lopsided battle, where my joining will not affect the outcome enough to give that team a chance, I won't play.  Do the devs not realize that this is costing them players, and money spent on crystals?  If I'm going to have to fight druggers in almost every battle, then I won't play, and if I don't play I don't spend when I have a few extra dollars.  There needs to be a server, or two where drugging isn't allowed, and where the teams are kept balanced, even if it means kicking people off of one team.  It's just a game I know that, but I'm not going to play a game that is being ruined by drugging money players.  If it's not fun I don't play, and if I don't play I won't spend.  The solution to some of the unbalanced teams is to just leave, if you are being slaughtered, but the whole team you are on needs to leave.  Some of these battles I think are being screwed up by alternate accounts, just to take up space on the enemy team.  I was in a battle a few days ago, where one jerk was playing on both teams.  That crud needs to stop.  Take my opinion for what you think it's worth, but many of us can't throw hundreds of dollars at this game every week, and a game that isn't enjoyable isn't worth playing.

I kind of see your point, however, there's a bit more depth to it... I'll PM to you asap to explain how things go around if you'd like to find out.

[GUARDIAN-4.NG3L 9]

Skill and good equipment, even without spending can help you a lot.

[sam131192 113]

 

 

No, look, I’m not into starting or propagating a Flame War here.

 

I’ve really enjoyed playing this Game over the last month, and have been more than happy to contribute real money to the Developers for doing such an excellent job. I would have done that anyway, even if I wasn’t going to receive any In-Game boost like crystals and power-ups.

 

What I particularly enjoy about this game is that I can play it with my six-year old son. It was actually him who introduced me to the game after a school-friend of his put him onto it.

 

Now a six-year old child playing this Game is not going to stand much of a chance against seasoned, twenty-something Gamers. Without the boost of power-ups, this would be a pretty miserable game for him to play. So, no worries: I can purchase in-game power-ups for him, which give him a chance of dealing damage, rather than just having to take it.

 

And frankly, if the argument being used by the Anti-Drug Brigade is that Drug Use is driving players away from the game; then I have to counter that without Power-Up Supplies, there would be far fewer children playing the game… And it’s player numbers that count, right..?

 

However, my big concern as a parent, is what to say to my son when other players in-Game are calling him a “drugger”/accusing him of “using drugs”. There is a lot of that, as we know, and it is the only thing that tarnishes my enjoyment of the game.

 

So I’m as keen as anyone to help reconcile the issues around Supplies/”Drugs” as anyone: hence my tenacity in this thread.

 

If it were a game that only I played, then I would have nothing but derision and contempt for those people whining about “drugging”. I would say that they are morons who do not understand viable business models in today’s Capitalist-dominated World. I would suggest that they just suck up their frustrations and paranoia (really? It’s always the *OTHER* team that is full of druggers? Never the one that you join? How unlucky is that..??!) and get over themselves. People purchasing crystals and buying supplies are subsidising the freeloaders. The whiners claim to want to “protect” the game by preventing people leaving because of all the “drugging”; but the reality is that their whining and antagonism is far more likely to drive away the casual playing-base and those who fund the game with purchases.

 

But I’m not the only person in my household playing this Game. My son is. And I suspect before too much longer, his younger brother will join him. Because, you know, this is a very enjoyable game, I think because it isn’t actual combat simulation. It is quite cartoonish, quite light-hearted, very “Arcade”. It’s a game that appeals to young and old alike. You don’t have to be super-skilled to play it; you just need good hand-to-eye coordination and reasonable reactions.

 

Supplies/”Power-Ups”/”Drugs” help level the playing field between all the twenty-something males with time, reflexes and energy on their side; and the very young, or middle-aged, who haven’t yet developed their coordination, or whose reflexes have been dulled by time.

 

The argument against “Drugs” goes like this:

 

Player A = Skill Level 7

Player B = Skill Level 4

 

Or:

 

Team A = Overall Skill Level 70

Team B = Overall Skill Level 40

 

Therefore:

 

Player A must always beat Player B; Team A must always beat Team B.

 

That is fair. That is right. That is proper. That is: The Way It Must Be.

 

But…

 

Power-ups/”Drugs” gives a double advantage, so that:

 

Player A = Skill Level 7

Player B = (Skill Level 4) x 2 = Skill Level 8

 

Or:

 

Team A = Overall Skill Level 70

Team B = (Overall Skill Level 40) x 2 = Overall Skill Level 80

 

Which means that, with “Drugs”:

 

Player B will always beat Player A; Team B will always beat Team A.

 

And that’s just wrong. That just shouldn’t be allowed. Drugs are bad, mmm’kay…

 

But the thing is…

 

Whilst it is possible for children and us middle-aged folk to get our hands on supplies/”drugs”; it is not possible for the kids to rapidly develop competitive hand-to-eye coordination and reflexes, and sadly impossible for us middle-aged folks to recover the priapic responsiveness we may have once had in our youth.

 

So if “drugs” weren’t available to the less-skilled players, then the most-skilled players would always dominate. In every game round. All the time. Every match. Without exception…

 

That would be totally miserable and utterly off-putting to those of us who lack such awesomely attractive Tanki-playing skills. And so we would stop playing. And Tanki Online would go the same way as so many other games that end-up dominated by obsessive players that never permit “Noobs” a look in.

 

And, you know, it is all about keeping as many players as possible playing Tanki, isn’t it..?

 

:unsure:

 

 

 

You make a convincing argument here. I agree.

Edited January 7, 2015 by sam131192

[Chameleos 157]

if you're highly skilled, when you unlock the m3,fighting druggers gets easier.. they can't have better equipment anymore.

[r_Zesx0 39]

I disagree. With time, you can make money, with money you can't make time.  Therefore, Time>>>Money.

So the game should reward those who commit their time into the game way more than the players who only spend money.

 

Regarding MUs: at your rank, a fully maxed out Freeze M2 has a 20.9% boost in damage relative to on-MUed Freeze M2, which is not enought to change the outcome of medium to large team games. 

With double power however, it is 100% boost in damage.  And like you said, if you fully MUed and then drugged it would've been 120.9% boost in damage, making the Freeze M2 do 241.8% of it's original damage. This boost will change the outcome of any game.

Therefore, drugs significantly alters the game's outcome, not MUs.

 

I am not saying buyers shouldn't have an advantage over none buys. I am saying buyer shouldn't dominate every battle just because they can buy drugs. That is why, we need to limit the drug usage on each team.

How about simply making drugs much less expensive and make people gain more crystals over all in the game? This would benefit people overall, as people would be able to afford supplies and people using them in normal battles would get more crystals overall, instead of wasting tons of crystals on supplies and then receiving small amount from the supply using, which is utterly unfair. I would talk to you more about this, but I haven't got the time now. PM me and we could discuss this further. I am not against your arguments, I agree with you that supplies are quite the problem, but I kind of disagree with the solution you're giving.

[bum11112 5]

very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very TRUE B)

[troutdog311 0]

We did just have "The Game" and most of us got tons of drugs. I have noticed a great increase of drugging since "The Game" ended and I'm sure most will run low on drugs soon.

[SicTransitGloria 76]

Holyman, I understand your desire that we view drugs as a sort of balancing mechanism. Sadly, that is not the way the game works. You see, no one wants a person who isn't skilled. That may sound incredibly rude (and it is), but I am giving my honest opinion. Tell me, if someone has worked years at playing Tanki, earning crystals, upgrading tanks and getting very skilled, why should that person not win? Because the other people always lose? Then they should get skilled, so they might win, too.

 

Do I drug? I have two circumstances in which I drug: I'm capturing a flag or I'm going for a gold box. That's it.

[Holyman_Tanki 40]

You say “…no one wants a person who isn’t skilled.” I disagree.

 

People who aren’t skilled want other people who aren’t skilled.

 

If this Game were dominated by those players with innate or developed skills, it wouldn’t be much fun for those who lacked those skills, or didn’t have the time to develop them.

 

Would it?

 

It would dramatically narrow the audience that the Developers have worked so hard to gather; and it would create yet another unpleasant In-Game culture, full of young men who think their aptitude for the game is a valid substitute for social skills.

 

As it is, the supply mechanism and the ability to buy crystals for RL cash keeps the game accessible and balanced amongst players of all ages and abilities, at least at the lower-to-mid rank levels.

 

Come your Generalissimo rank STG, and I’m sure you’ll have all the opportunity you’ll need to demonstrate your skills, unhindered by unskilled players.

 

:D

[belegea 5]

Holyman, I understand your desire that we view drugs as a sort of balancing mechanism. Sadly, that is not the way the game works. You see, no one wants a person who isn't skilled. That may sound incredibly rude (and it is), but I am giving my honest opinion. Tell me, if someone has worked years at playing Tanki, earning crystals, upgrading tanks and getting very skilled, why should that person not win? Because the other people always lose? Then they should get skilled, so they might win, too.

 

Do I drug? I have two circumstances in which I drug: I'm capturing a flag or I'm going for a gold box. That's it.

This is the mentality that ruin the game. If you play a normal battle, use drugs to help your team win. You can t espect 1-2 players to use supplies, and the rest to benefit from the reward. 

The skill is overrated. It s all about team work, good gear and commitment.

People complaining about drugs ruining the game are the ones who don t use them because they are skilled.

I m skilled and i m using drugs and I really hate this noobs that won t drug because they think they are skilled. They make me loose games when a drugger team enter the game.

The team with most druggers win. If both teams drug, the skilled team win. 

But noobs who think they are skilled and don t need drugs ruin the game for their teammates. This is why drugger teams are created. To teach a lesson of humility to this skilled noobs. If you can t win a game against a drugger team, you are a worthless noob and should start playing farmville. 

[Endurance 543]

Always join the teams which have the higher ranked players, they will most likely win. If you're team starts to lose, just leave and join another.

[BenelliSuper90 7]

Too many games are being ruined by druggers.  One, or two that drug in every battle they are in, aren't just using drugs that were given by Tanki as gifts, they are buying.  There is no  way someone could play for hours per day, and have enough drugs to use them constantly in each battle, if they weren't buying them.  Because of all of this wallet warrior crap going on, I've decided that I will no longer spend money on this game, and as of today, I'm out for a while, if not permanently. The drugs are way too powerful, and the spenders never seem to run out of money.  I've saw battles that were pretty evenly matched be ruined when a couple of druggers show up, and drug every damned chance they get.  It seems like the only way to stay half way competitve is to spend, spend, spend, and I can't afford to spend like many can. I'm done with this game, because I'm not rich enough to be able to keep up with the worthless, no skill players, that constantly drug.

[beaku 2,656]

I don't have a good garage. I have been playing for for almost 1.5 years and would have been a Generalissimo if it were not for my entrance exam preparation. I can't buy crystals. I also have never bought drugs.

Here is my garage

Drugs:

First aid 1500

Double armour 2100

Double damage 2550

Nitro 2850

Mines 2600

 

Hulls

M2 hornet

M1 wasp, viking, mammoth

M0 everything else.

 

Turrets

M2 isida

M1 firebird, smoky, rail gun, thunder

M0 everything else.

 

I have MU'ed only 5-6 steps of each.

Can somebody tell if I can ever reach a high rank going at such a lousy rate.

[beaku 2,656]

All of you should also take up the view point of another party: The Developers.

They need to draw their pay checks too at the end of the day. If drugs are weakened or made cheaper why would people by crystals??

[liverpoolaum 811]

i hate drugs as it ill kill the spirit of the game

[XTNO.1 15]

I'm glad this topic re-surfaced. B)

Edited January 16, 2015 by XTNO.1

[Leo9001 2]

I'm glad too, as this unbalanced gameplay problem hasn't been addressed.

 

How about simply making drugs much less expensive and make people gain more crystals over all in the game? This would benefit people overall, as people would be able to afford supplies and people using them in normal battles would get more crystals overall, instead of wasting tons of crystals on supplies and then receiving small amount from the supply using, which is utterly unfair. I would talk to you more about this, but I haven't got the time now. PM me and we could discuss this further. I am not against your arguments, I agree with you that supplies are quite the problem, but I kind of disagree with the solution you're giving.

You read one of my eariler post. I thought about it a while back and I believe if we limit the number of drugs can be used, or like you suggest, make drugs cheaper or make people gain more crystals, there wouldn't be as much need for players to purchase crystals with money, especially once you have all equipment. If you were to read one of my later posts, you'd see my recommendation now is to decrease the power of drugs.

 

 

All of you should also take up the view point of another party: The Developers.
They need to draw their pay checks too at the end of the day. If drugs are weakened or made cheaper why would people by crystals??

If there are more players love the game, there will be more new players, hence more buyers. But I do agree with your point that drug's need to still have an impact on the effect of battle. At the moment however, drugs are simply way to overpowered.. It's just ridiculous what a Double Power can do on a Hammer, Thunder, Rail, or any other turret...

 

So once again, if any developers are reading this, please reduce the power of drugs. The cost should be kept the same, at least for now.

More specifically:

• Drop the power of DA and DP by about 50% and reduce the power of mines by just enough so people can still parkour with it. Do a test-run just like last year's crystal box removal.  This should be the first step, then if any further balancing problems arise, do further adjustment, the community will definitely contribute their ideas.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Leo9001

[belegea 5]

There is a balance between drugs, paints, and weapon power.

If you make drugs less powerful,  close range weapons like freeze will dominate once again the game. It sucks to play a game in slow motion.

The problem is not drugs, is the unbalance mu weapons, that mostly buyers have, and non mu weapons, that most players have.

If a team is created by buyers,  who have m4 huls and weapons, mu paints and unlimited supplies, they are unstoppable no matter what you do.

If the teams are created random, then all members should use their drugs WHEN IS NEEDED, not if and when they choose. Why are players saving drugs?

Use drugs = better score= higher crystals= better garage + new drugs. 

[CrimsonSaviour 40]

Probably because of how much crystals one can receive in the end....Like, is it worth it to spam FA, when you probably recieve less than 1k in the end? Also, people are selfish, and rather let others on their team to use drugs.

[beaku 2,656]

Well drugs might be powerful but if it were not so all sales of Hammer, thunder and rail gun would stop. After all most famous maps including silence and polygon need users of these medium to large range turrets to drug once in a while.

[snipe3000 678]

if you do not like supplies then play pro