Let's Discuss Hammer!

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Guido, have you ever actually used hammer? The weak damage is like ricochet or firebird, it does not have infinite minimum range like smoky. 

 

 

yes i have. it does have infinite minimum range... it's just that a pellet hitting a target is almost impossible, but when you get really lucky you'll see it can.

 

create a private battle in a big map and try it... you might have to try a couple million shots but eventually your friend across the map will take 1 pellet

 

 

 

I'm guessing you haven't used hammer enough to know that :ph34r:

Well to me both comments are helpful. Thank you.

 

If teh single pellets do have infinite weak damage like Smoky it is possible for a player to rarely score those hits and also they ae not ging to try those shots nor pay close attention to damage numbers floating up.  So they might have had it happen just not seen the damage numbers. 

 

I know one of my accounts has an m0 hammer I guess I can find it and just test a bunsh of shots.

 

Or not the basic point is: beyond a certain range hammer is toothless.

Edited July 28, 2018 by LittleWillie

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

 

You see that "70" number? That's minimum range. What are you going to tell us next, that twins also has infinite range?

is it really that fun pretending to be so stupid?

 

no one said the same terms on he pages for different turrets have to mean the same thing. smoky has the same charasterics as hammer but the one for twins/ricochet/firebird/freeze has different description for weak damage and range of minimupm damage

 

 

 

 

 

now, if you're done pretending to be stupid go read the table of charateristics for twins/ricochet/firebird/whatever doesn't have infinite range.

and if you'd like to continue then get out of my face, i'm not entertained by your stupidity

Edited July 29, 2018 by GuidoFawkes

[wolverine848 13,097]

Well to me both comments are helpful. Thank you.

 

If teh single pellets do have infinite weak damage like Smoky it is possible for a player to rarely score those hits and also they ae not ging to try those shots nor pay close attention to damage numbers floating up.  So they might have had it happen just not seen the damage numbers. 

 

I know one of my accounts has an m0 hammer I guess I can find it and just test a bunsh of shots.

 

Or not the basic point is: beyond a certain range hammer is toothless.

The descriptions in wiki for some turrets - (hammer included) are quite poor.

 

Wiki tries to use common terminology when maybe it should not be used.

 

Example - weak damage can refer to damage dealt beyond the minimum damage range (smoky).

But for Hammer it seems to imply damage beyond "most effective range"... or maybe not...  It can be confusing.

[splitterpoint 10,986]

So technically Hammer has infinite range? Or do individual pallets travel to certain distance and vanish out of thin air like Twins or Ricochet?

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

The weak damage is like ricochet or firebird, it does not have infinite minimum range like smoky. 

The descriptions in wiki for some turrets - (hammer included) are quite poor.

 

Example - weak damage can refer to damage dealt beyond the minimum damage range (smoky).

But for Hammer it seems to imply damage beyond "most effective range"... or maybe not...  It can be confusing.

Actually the wiki is right in this regard. If you look at the Twins table of characteristics, it says that weak damage is "the percentage of normal damage dealt to an enemy tank at the end of the minimum damage range." 

 

Hammer's table of characteristics on the other hand defines weak damage as "the percentage of normal damage dealt to an enemy at distances larger than minimum damage range."

 

So for turrets with finite range the first description holds, while for turrets with infinite range the second description applies.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

Actually the wiki is right in this regard. If you look at the Twins table of characteristics, it says that weak damage is "the percentage of normal damage dealt to an enemy tank at the end of the minimum damage range." 

 

Hammer's table of characteristics on the other hand defines weak damage as "the percentage of normal damage dealt to an enemy at distances larger than minimum damage range."

 

So for turrets with finite range the first description holds, while for turrets with infinite range the second description applies.

yeah pretty much. I don't even speak english and i can understand that... somehow that american can't even read his own language :lol:

[Strikechard123 241]

Needs a buff, thunder deals same damage, with same reload, in splash, and infinite reload, and longer range, and can still 1 shot with dd thunder, so why use hammer

[wolverine848 13,097]

Needs a buff, thunder deals same damage, with same reload, in splash, and infinite reload, and longer range, and can still 1 shot with dd thunder, so why use hammer

Up close Hammer does more damage - 952.  versus Thunder which does 650-900 for an avg of 775.

And up close Thunder damages itself while hammer does not.

 

They have different ranges where each is more useful than the other.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

I bought m1 hammer on an WO2 alt for a 25% discount last night because I had a lot of crystals on it, and let me say that it's pretty good at the low ranks. It eats up double damages like no tomorrow though. I used up 20 to 25 double damages in one battle. :mellow:

[I_am_awsome 466]

HAmmer is not good at all -,-

[gokuMI6 1,290]

HAmmer is not good at all -,-

+ it is

TBH one of the few turret's that is strong but not many recognise as strong and do'n't take protection's

[Strikechard123 241]

Hammer is either op and 1 shots everybody, or it is a turret that can't even kill a tank with a full clip.

[gokuMI6 1,290]

Hammer is either op and 1 shots everybody, or it is a turret that can't even kill a tank with a full clip.

It cant 1 shot everybody 

 

and get the High capcity drum alt it gives 2 more shots per clip

so a full clip will kill all guys { except guys with 50% prot , and that is if you are very unlucky } 

[railguniz4noobz 2,394]

It cant 1 shot everybody 

 

and get the High capcity drum alt it gives 2 more shots per clip

so a full clip will kill all guys { except guys with 50% prot , and that is if you are very unlucky } 

High capacity drum is required to kill a medium hull with RK, while reducing firing speed, on top of this you have to pray the game doesn't bug and force pellets to miss. Ammo is too much of a crippling factor for the turret to be viable at top tier, thunder is a little bit weaker but it also has range, splash and infinite ammo. There is no reason to use the turret over twins if you want short range, and no reason to use it over thunder anywhere else. 

 

In theory, the turret is balanced if everything goes right. Thunder is only balanced if everything goes wrong.

 

Of course, most low ranks using the turret don't realize how quickly it loses its effectiveness once everyone starts drugging, and the whales with infinite supplies just plow through tanks regardless.

[gokuMI6 1,290]

High capacity drum is required to kill a medium hull with RK, while reducing firing speed, on top of this you have to pray the game doesn't bug and force pellets to miss. Ammo is too much of a crippling factor for the turret to be viable at top tier, thunder is a little bit weaker but it also has range, splash and infinite ammo. There is no reason to use the turret over twins if you want short range, and no reason to use it over thunder anywhere else. 

 

In theory, the turret is balanced if everything goes right. Thunder is only balanced if everything goes wrong.

 

Of course, most low ranks using the turret don't realize how quickly it loses its effectiveness once everyone starts drugging, and the whales with infinite supplies just plow through tanks regardless.

I was Answering the raging guy 

 

+Your points are right , hammer is a like Twins in range , it is a Shot gun so the pellet miss you can't complain

 

Also how much does the m1 alt help on the pellet spred ?

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

I was Answering the raging guy 

 

+Your points are right , hammer is a like Twins in range , it is a Shot gun so the pellet miss you can't complain

 

Also how much does the m1 alt help on the pellet spred ?

It's about as precise as a railgun shot.

[gokuMI6 1,290]

It's about as precise as a railgun shot.

:o

Oh ok

i really need to try it out then 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

:o

Oh ok

i really need to try it out then

 

But the rotation speed is ludicrously slow. Even slower than a shaft in scape mode. I probably would have had it by now if it was just a 30 to 40% decrease in rotation speed instead of a ridiculous 70%.

[railguniz4noobz 2,394]

But the rotation speed is ludicrously slow. Even slower than a shaft in scape mode. I probably would have had it by now if it was just a 30 to 40% decrease in rotation speed instead of a ridiculous 70%.

Turning speed isn't really that much of a drawback, worse case scenario you have to turn with your hull to hit a wasp.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Turning speed isn't really that much of a drawback, worse case scenario you have to turn with your hull to hit a wasp.

Well, that's not the only thing that bugs me about the alt now. You also lose the ability to be able to hit target that are on slightly lower elevations unless they were at the appropriate distance away from the ledge.

 

For example: if the ledge you are on is 5 m high, then you wouldn't be able to hit the enemy unless they were about 15 to 20 m away from the ledge, maybe even more.

[enri_chill 265]

Well, that's not the only thing that bugs me about the alt now. You also lose the ability to be able to hit target that are on slightly lower elevations unless they were at the appropriate distance away from the ledge.

 

For example: if the ledge you are on is 5 m high, then you wouldn't be able to hit the enemy unless they were about 15 to 20 m away from the ledge, maybe even more.

True...the alt really moves the hammer into a more functional mid-range turret. IF (and only if) you wanted a bit more range and were willing to sacrifice the spread, the alt is for you. On maps like highways it is great.

[gokuMI6 1,290]

But the rotation speed is ludicrously slow. Even slower than a shaft in scape mode. I probably would have had it by now if it was just a 30 to 40% decrease in rotation speed instead of a ridiculous 70%.

Turning the hull wont' work ?

i was thinking about the jackhammer kit 

[ghost-guns 1,486]

In my opinion it's a really good, user-friendly turret. It steals a lot of kills because the damage (1000-2000 per shot) is effective against weakened tanks. Range is ok-ish. Better than smoky? I'm not sure. Up close hammer definitely wins especially if it has the alt with 5 shots. Smoky M4 with the alteration is probably better though.

Edited August 12, 2018 by ghost-guns

[babyofRosemarysbaby 256]

In my opinion it's a really good, user-friendly turret. It steals a lot of kills because the damage (1000-2000 per shot) is effective against weakened tanks. Range is ok-ish. Better than smoky? I'm not sure. Up close hammer definitely wins especially if it has the alt with 5 shots. Smoky M4 with the alteration is probably better though.

I don't think the altered smoky is any worse opponent for a hammer than a normal one. The smoky alteration really makes no difference in terms of overall damage.

 

If we divide smokys full shot cycle (in m4s case 4 normals+ 1 crit) with the time it takes (4*535+770}/1.8*5 we get a number 323, representive of the damage/time ratio for normal smoky.

For altered smoky it looks like this *alteration changes (4*705+1.2*770}*(1.4*1.8*5)=297

(The normal shot damage points are taken as the average between the min and max damage)

edit: Was charting out other dpms and realized I did an amateur mistake the 1st time, put the wrong damage average for normal smoky :)

The altered smoky is actually a tad weaker than the normal one, but it's still pretty insignifcant of a change.

I get that the higher damage/shot might make the turret better for some users, since quick kills might be a bit more common and hit-and-runs would be more affecitve There is however also the argument for higher firing rate being more disruptive to enemies.

Edited August 15, 2018 by babyofRosemarysbaby

[gokuMI6 1,290]

In my opinion it's a really good, user-friendly turret. It steals a lot of kills because the damage (1000-2000 per shot) is effective against weakened tanks. Range is ok-ish. Better than smoky? I'm not sure. Up close hammer definitely wins especially if it has the alt with 5 shots. Smoky M4 with the alteration is probably better though.

With the Alt Hammer lose the rotaion 

But that can be coverd by turning hull { not every time though }

Still with PTS Smoky has faster reload than Hammer 

But on small maps Hammer , and on mid-long maps Smoky would be the choice i take