Night Mode for maps and Shaft’s laser scope

[AN_602 280]

Oh FINALLY! :D sweet!

[tommybau 1,033]

Another thing, with the laser they have removed the wobble, who doesn't like that?! I would rather have a tiny little laser beam than a scope moving everywhere. 

...tiny?...little? lol.

 

[r_Boppy0 11]

Shaft Laser = Epic FAIL!

 

As you will no doubt guess from what follows, I am (almost) exclusively a Shaft user.

 

But I want to start by addressing those who are non-Shaft users and, especially, those who think the Shaft laser is a good idea.

 

Many Tankers fear the Shaft and see it as their nemesis. It is certainly true that pre-laser Shafts, in the correct hands, were a potent weapon - but all turrets, in the correct hands, can be potent weapons. Each has strengths and each has weaknesses. Pre-laser Shafts were certainly not invincible! While in sniping mode a Shaft has a field-of-vision of just 23 degrees which means that any close-combat turret (eg Firebird, Isida, or Freeze) could sneak up, completely unseen, from any of the "other" 337 degrees and take it out. Unless the Shaft happened to be in "double damage" mode or unless the attacker was already carrying damage, then it was almost certainly "curtains" for the Shaft - even if it could get off one round in "arcade" mode first.

 

Similarly, even when mid-range turrets (such as Twins, Rico or Smoky) were in the Shaft's sniping mode "cross-hairs" at a reasonable range, they could knock the Shaft off-balance just enough, often enough, and for long enough, to make sure the Shaft would be taken out before being able to re-acquire the target. And long-range weapons can monitor a Shaft's kill pattern and, by simple triangulation, work out where a Shaft must be concealed and then have a go themselves.

 

As a Shaft user, I can count on the fingers of less than one hand the number of times I have picked up a gold box - it is simply not what the Shaft is designed for; similarly, as a Shaft user, I rarely capture a flag -  unless, perhaps, a Team mate has lost it nearby and there is no-one else to pick it up. Thus, the only way I can earn crystals is by doing my best to ensure that my Team wins!!! And it is to THE TEAM that the real benefit a pre-laser Shaft can be seen. . . . .

 

As a non-Shaft user, you may have dreaded the pre-laser Shafts; but don't forgot that those in the opposing Team also dreaded your Team's pre-laser Shafts! And it is in the Team battles that the Shafts "earn their keep" - not just for themselves but for the Team as well.

 

A well-placed Shaft can protect the Team's Flag; it can "soften up" the enemy - and don't forget, that any kills during this process adds to the Battle Fund for all to share; a Shaft can create a field of fire such that certain routes to our flag can be very dangerous thereby forcing the enemy to take an alternative route; a Shaft can clear a path through enemy lines allowing you, and others, to attack the enemy flag; the same Shaft can then give you covering fire to bring the enemy flag back to our own base - indeed, I would argue that a well-controlled Shaft can be more valuable to you when capturing a flag than an accompanying Isida because the enemy will often make the Isida the number one target before going on the hit the flag carrier! A Shaft can protect and assist fellow Team mates who might be in trouble at long-range. And what if our flag is taken? A Shaft can take out the enemy flag carrier where there are no other Team members able to do it. The Shaft can then go on to "cover" the dropped flag until either it is returned by a fellow Team member or is "timed out" and auto-returned. Now consider, for a moment, how these scenarios will play out with a nerfed laser-Shaft! Quite simply . . . . . they won't!!! I contend, therefore, that even if you believe a pre-laser Shaft to be your worst nightmare, having one on your Team can also be your dream ticket.

 

Turning now to the developers. According to Wikipedia:

 

". . . a sniper's primary function in modern warfare is to provide detailed reconnaissance from a concealed position and, if necessary, to reduce the enemy's fighting ability by neutralizing high value targets (especially officers and other key personnel) and in the process pinning down and demoralizing the enemy".

 

It doesn't say anything in that piece (or anywhere else) about snipers flagging up their position so others can "neutralize" the sniper first. Nor does it say anything about making it clear to the whole world which target, out of up to ten others, the sniper has selected. Even Tanki's own Wiki still describes Shaft as a Sniper's weapon. It was - but it no longer is! 

 

Please reconsider this change - a pre-laser Shaft helped enrich this game for all users (see argument above), not just Shaft users. If not, then I, like so many others have already indicated, I will be walking away; I have no desire to go back to the very bottom of the tree and start again, learning and earning, with a different weapon just to get back to where I am now.

 

Mark my words, a Tanki Online with no (or, at best, few) Shaft users will be a much poorer game overall as a result.

 

PS - To all those who have already voiced your support for  this change: no-one will think any the less of you if you wish to revise your opinion!

Edited December 4, 2014 by r_Boppy0

[r_ThunderSpartan0 3]

why is everyone crying about how shaft was ruined?

i played today and it was still killing me alot

shaft still made kills and still made alot

are you crying on the forum because you don't get your nice 60.0 D/L

[r_Just_T0 11]

The people that hate and like the update is maybe due to them getting owned by shaft or they have no aim so they hate using shaft because they suck with it

I think that's exactly why people like this update on shaft

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

why is everyone crying about how shaft was ruined?

i played today and it was still killing me alot

shaft still made kills and still made alot

are you crying on the forum because you don't get your nice 60.0 D/L

They are entitled to their opinion. Even though I think the update is GENIUS, tanki should still listen to the concerns of shaft users here. Players paid for their turrets and micro-upgraded them for a reason. Some people spent lots of money without knowing their camouflage days were numbered. 

[dont_you 70]

Dear shafters:

 

You should not be in sniping mode all the time. When you are sniping, you are not aware of what is going on: you didn't know where the flag is, which enemies are approaching, which teammates need support, etc. If you are all the time in sniping mode you can't play effectively, and players that do that always have low scores.

 

The basic technique to use a shaft effectively is:

 

1. Take cover behind a wall

2. Choose a target

3. Get out from cover, aim, shot (shot anyway if you missed your target)

4. Take cover again. Repeat.

 

Doing that you will choose your targets wisely, and your laser will be off most of the time. It is true that the laser reveals where you are... but competents tankers knows anyway where you are, just from the effect of the shaft impact. And remember that the shaft firing has an observable blast too... even in forest like Kungur o Lost Temple you reveal your position to an experienced enemy every time you fired.

 

So stop whining... the turret may be nerfed a bit, but absolutely is not the end of it. Just learn its new capabilities :)

[Rellik24-7 17]

I don't like this update at all.... The laser on the shaft completely ruins it.... The whole point of sniping is not to be seen.... Tanki needs to get rid of that stupid laser....

[laforge2 0]

The update off the shaft is not good.

The laser beam must go off

You can not going in sniper mode. You always been seen.

I do not use the shaft anymore.

 

Edited December 4, 2014 by laforge2

[CombatCat2 248]

Cool, both parts of this are great for me. I don't normally use shaft, so the laser helps me (and quit whining about it, get over it and learn new tactics, remember, it has it's benefits too, like in sniper vs sniper wars) because shafts always kill me. The night mode also seems cool, and I can't wait to try it!

[GR33NLEMON 162]

Finally, Finally, Finally Shaft got nerfed YAY go hype go hype wohoooooo

 

ah yea and theres night mode i guess

[GR33NLEMON 162]

If the purpose of this modification is to penalize excessive campers, well, the goal has been reached. I also don’t like players who stay 90% of the time in scope mode, just waiting. It is an annoying way of playing.

 

The problem is that “dynamic” shafters are also penalized. I shoot most of my shots as soon as I reach full power or even at ½ or ¾ of the charge, because I choose my targets before entering in scope mode. If I lose the target, I cancel the shot. I almost never stay in full power more than 2 or 3 seconds.

 

So, here is my suggestion: laser sight and steady aim could start 2 seconds after full charge, and reach full visibility (laser) and stability (aim) in about 2 or 3 more seconds:

 

1) shot at partial charge: NO laser sight

2) shot at full charge, within 2 seconds after full charge has been reached: NO laser sight, aim still shaking

3) after 2 seconds since full power has been reached: laser appears, aim begins to get more stability

4) after 3 more seconds: laser reaches full brightness, aim reaches full stability

 

In this way fast aim snipers will have the chance to stay invisible (as long as they shoot within 2 seconds since full charge has been reached), while “scope campers” will be exposed because they can’t aim that fast.

 

I’d like a feedback, thanks in advance!

if shaft would get even moar stability it would get even better for people that just stay 90% in scope mode!

[Super-System 5]

The laser sight has very much nerfed Shafts.  What compensation has there been?  It does not load faster, nor move faster, nor hit harder or with more power.  Shafts were not overpowered; if they were, everyone would play them, but almost every game I have been in has a good mix of tank types.  Now I feel like my shaft is a liability.

 

So some players complained it was hard to see shafts.  Tell them to look harder.  I admit, getting popped without seeing the shooter is annoying.  But after the second time, I knew where they were, and could either get them myself or send a teammate to get them.  Now everyone knows where they are.  

 

Personally I am annoyed by how much Freeze slows down a tank.  Or how much Firebird keeps doing damage with no easy way to stop it.  Or how Railgun hits even when it is fired beside you.  Can you fix those?  If I am loud enough, will you nerf those tanks too?  Stop fixing what isn't broken and fix the real problems (like drug addicts who are on drugs the entirety of the game).  No wonder so many players have left - this is getting frustrating.  If you are going to re-engineer a tank, at least give the option for a refund so all those hundreds of thousands of spent crystals can be put to use on a different turret that has not been devalued by a short-sighted update.  

[deadmanrising 715]

The bug hasn't been fixed either, both m0, m1 m2 and m3 all orange, you can tell this update was rushed

[roar45 24]

Shaft Laser = Epic FAIL!

 

As you will no doubt guess from what follows, I am (almost) exclusively a Shaft user.

 

But I want to start by addressing those who are non-Shaft users and, especially, those who think the Shaft laser is a good idea.

 

Many Tankers fear the Shaft and see it as their nemesis. It is certainly true that pre-laser Shafts, in the correct hands, were a potent weapon - but all turrets, in the correct hands, can be potent weapons. Each has strengths and each has weaknesses. Pre-laser Shafts were certainly not invincible! While in sniping mode a Shaft has a field-of-vision of just 23 degrees which means that any close-combat turret (eg Firebird, Isida, or Freeze) could sneak up, completely unseen, from any of the "other" 337 degrees and take it out. Unless the Shaft happened to be in "double damage" mode or unless the attacker was already carrying damage, then it was almost certainly "curtains" for the Shaft - even if it could get off one round in "arcade" mode first.

 

Similarly, even when mid-range turrets (such as Twins, Rico or Smoky) were in the Shaft's sniping mode "cross-hairs" at a reasonable range, they could knock the Shaft off-balance just enough, often enough, and for long enough, to make sure the Shaft would be taken out before being able to re-acquire the target. And long-range weapons can monitor a Shaft's kill pattern and, by simple triangulation, work out where a Shaft must be concealed and then have a go themselves.

 

As a Shaft user, I can count on the fingers of less than one hand the number of times I have picked up a gold box - it is simply not what the Shaft is designed for; similarly, as a Shaft user, I rarely capture a flag -  unless, perhaps, a Team mate has lost it nearby and there is no-one else to pick it up. Thus, the only way I can earn crystals is by doing my best to ensure that my Team wins!!! And it is to THE TEAM that the real benefit a pre-laser Shaft can be seen. . . . .

 

As a non-Shaft user, you may have dreaded the pre-laser Shafts; but don't forgot that those in the opposing Team also dreaded your Team's pre-laser Shafts! And it is in the Team battles that the Shafts "earn their keep" - not just for themselves but for the Team as well.

 

A well-placed Shaft can protect the Team's Flag; it can "soften up" the enemy - and don't forget, that any kills during this process adds to the Battle Fund for all to share; a Shaft can create a field of fire such that certain routes to our flag can be very dangerous thereby forcing the enemy to take an alternative route; a Shaft can clear a path through enemy lines allowing you, and others, to attack the enemy flag; the same Shaft can then give you covering fire to bring the enemy flag back to our own base - indeed, I would argue that a well-controlled Shaft can be more valuable to you when capturing a flag than an accompanying Isida because the enemy will often make the Isida the number one target before going on the hit the flag carrier! A Shaft can protect and assist fellow Team mates who might be in trouble at long-range. And what if our flag is taken? A Shaft can take out the enemy flag carrier where there are no other Team members able to do it. The Shaft can then go on to "cover" the dropped flag until either it is returned by a fellow Team member or is "timed out" and auto-returned. Now consider, for a moment, how these scenarios will play out with a nerfed laser-Shaft! Quite simply . . . . . they won't!!! I contend, therefore, that even if you believe a pre-laser Shaft to be your worst nightmare, having one on your Team can also be your dream ticket.

 

Turning now to the developers. According to Wikipedia:

 

". . . a sniper's primary function in modern warfare is to provide detailed reconnaissance from a concealed position and, if necessary, to reduce the enemy's fighting ability by neutralizing high value targets (especially officers and other key personnel) and in the process pinning down and demoralizing the enemy".

 

It doesn't say anything in that piece (or anywhere else) about snipers flagging up their position so others can "neutralize" the sniper first. Nor does it say anything about making it clear to the whole world which target, out of up to ten others, the sniper has selected. Even Tanki's own Wiki still describes Shaft as a Sniper's weapon. It was - but it no longer is! 

 

Please reconsider this change - a pre-laser Shaft helped enrich this game for all users (see argument above), not just Shaft users. If not, then I, like so many others have already indicated, I will be walking away; I have no desire to go back to the very bottom of the tree and start again, learning and earning, with a different weapon just to get back to where I am now.

 

Mark my words, a Tanki Online with no (or, at best, few) Shaft users will be a much poorer game overall as a result.

 

PS - To all those who have already voiced your support for  this change: no-one will think any the less of you if you wish to revise your opinion!

This is an echo of my sentiments early posted, and perhaps even better phrased still.  We as shafts do not have the luxury of entering the fray and capturing and gold boxes and chasing down enemies, we have to pick and choose very strategicly what we do.

 

Now here comes the part most non-shafts don't understand, we don't care about all that, we REALLY like our role.  Shafts play for the end game, not the instance.  If we can hold off a tough offense we're happy, we did our job, if we can keep a stubborn defense running and the flag is ours over and over, we have done our job.

 

Players who find it an inconvinence to be shot while playing by a shaft are the same players who cannot play well anyways.  I can recognize a handful of ricos and thunders that are exceptionally troublesome and problematic for shafts because they get it and they know it's a battle, not just a slugfest.  It's thinking and planning and adapting.  Button mashers need not apply.

 

I know my rhetoric has become a bit more vitriolic since my first post, but I cannot help but get this way after reading some of the foolishness posted in favor of this by some players.

 

As for Boppy, thank you for the very well stated commentary and the level headedness you are keeping in all this, because yes, it is infuriating to have invested so much into a unit and have it yanked out from under you like this.  I hope all shaft players can speak their mind and state as eloquently as I have tried, and Boppy has done, to express the reality of this situation.

[Methodius 49]

While the addition of a "night mode" is a very welcome and long overdue upgrade to the TankiOnline battle-experience, the changes made to the “Shaft” turret can at best be considered downgrades.  This turret was already handicapped significantly in short- and medium-range combat—and, now, it is handicapped in its long-range strike capabilities.

 

As anyone with even basic military experience will attest, the role of the sniper rests in his/her ability to deliver a kill-shot at a long distance without being seen.  Now, thanks to the addition of the laser beam, that capability is completely removed.  Worst of all, the so-called laser is nothing more than a giant red or blue neon sign advertising to everyone in the game, “Here I am!  Kill me!”

 

I realize that Tanki is merely a game, but changing a once effective long-range weapon because other players whine about its killing capabilities sets a very poor precedent.  In warfare, there is no such thing as a level playing field, and “death” arrives without any advanced notice.

 

Shaft-users might score a great number of kills in many maps/games; however, that high kill-ratio comes at a price for the Shaft-user:

 

1. In a CTF battle, despite scoring 50+ kills in, for example, Dusseldorf, the Shaft-user is rewarded with significantly fewer points than players who have fewer kills, but who’ve captured a flag(s).
2. Because effective Shaft-users rely on stealth and their sniping abilities, they generally rely on heavier slower hulls—thus, Shafts are statistically much less likely to be successful in obtaining crystals from any Gold Box drop. 
3. In “Sniping Mode,” Shaft-users were handicapped by tunnel-vision—a fact that makes Shafts easy prey to faster tanks with turrets that excel in close-range combat.  The recent upgrade makes this problem even worse because not only are Shafts still handicapped by tunnel-vision, but Shafts are now also broadcasting a visual bee-line to their positions.  No other long-range or short-range weapon in Tanki does this.
4. Effective sniping requires stealth/camouflage and strategy.  This “upgrade” eliminates any ability for the Shaft-user to effectively utilize cover, resources, and strategy.

 

“Shaft” is clearly based on the long-barreled “tank destroyers” from the World War II-era, as well as the more modern self-propelled Howitzer designs of artillery used by both the US (M109A6 Paladin) and Soviet/Russian (SO-152 Акация) militaries.  In the real world, these weapons fire 152.5-155 mm rounds that can easily destroy armored vehicles at close and long range.  Although these modern, real-world weapons can be laser sighted/guided/illuminated, that laser is generally in the infrared spectrum and invisible to the target.

 

If you insist on making Shaft easier to find and kill, you should give the Shaft-user the real-world capabilities of modern self-propelled artillery—ergo, give Shaft double the fire-power of its sniping capability at short- and medium-range so that it is the “tank destroyer” it was meant to be.  No real-world Paladin or Акация fires a pea-shooter from its barrel at short-range, so why is Shaft penalized with a pea-shooter when up against faster tanks with Smoky, Twins, Isilda, Ricochet, Thunder, etc.? 

 

If you truly want to give Shaft a genuine, useful upgrade, then give Shaft-users a means to better defend themselves effectively at close- and medium-range now that you have knee-capped Shaft’s sniping abilities and are making every Shaft so very visible to all and sundry.  Shaft is based on the tank destroyer—so, why not make it one?

Edited December 4, 2014 by Methodius

[icerugby 1,886]

This looks very nice :) Updates are getting better and better

[cdfbrown 0]

I haven't come across any night maps yet so I can't comment on them too much, though judging by the comments here that seems to be bad luck on my part rather than people not using them when they make a game! I know I enjoyed the halloween map so I imagine I'll like this.

 

As for the shaft update, I'm afraid I don't like it. Shaft has always been the sniper turret. A sniper is meant to remain hidden (where possible) and to be able to take their time over a shot that the enemy doesn't know is coming. Until now shaft did this very well but this new update completely does away with all of it, making the turret (and as such the tank) easy to spot and predictable and forcing tankers to rush their shots because they know as soon as they enter sniper mode they're a target. I don't personally think that the shake was much of an issue - it served to balance the turret within the game and could be adapted to with patience and experience. As someone that regularly uses twins, I've never found shaft to be an insurmountable problem, just another type of turret to adapt to playing against - it's just about thinking tactically. I very much appreciate the work that goes into the game and to this update but, in my personal view, it makes shaft a slightly lesser turret compared to the others in terms of game balancing, especially since you HAVE to enter sniper mode to get a full powered shot - perhaps that last point could be addressed.

 

Thank you for reading.

[roar45 24]

Dear shafters:

 

You should not be in sniping mode all the time. When you are sniping, you are not aware of what is going on: you didn't know where the flag is, which enemies are approaching, which teammates need support, etc. If you are all the time in sniping mode you can't play effectively, and players that do that always have low scores.

 

The basic technique to use a shaft effectively is:

 

1. Take cover behind a wall

2. Choose a target

3. Get out from cover, aim, shot (shot anyway if you missed your target)

4. Take cover again. Repeat.

 

Doing that you will choose your targets wisely, and your laser will be off most of the time. It is true that the laser reveals where you are... but competents tankers knows anyway where you are, just from the effect of the shaft impact. And remember that the shaft firing has an observable blast too... even in forest like Kungur o Lost Temple you reveal your position to an experienced enemy every time you fired.

 

So stop whining... the turret may be nerfed a bit, but absolutely is not the end of it. Just learn its new capabilities :)

I'm sorry, I don't know the shafts you know.  60/0  Kill/Death doesn't score low.  A good, GOOD I repest, shaft, knows where to look for the fight, or expect it, and camps there.  Again, you speak like an anti camper.  If I next to cover the west building as the Red team on Serpuhov and my job is to kill any all in that corridor, my beam alerts them to it, AND, it I try to zoom in and get a good tack on them, I'm waiting nearly 2 seconds for the charge and the final barrel resting place before I can begin to adjust aim and fire, oh, and I'm letting them know I'm about to fire on them.

 

As for it's new capabilities, I invite you to list those, I'm all ears, because apparently you have discovered something I'm not able to read in the update FAQ.

[Schmerznebel 12]

Night mode: Great

Stable sniping: Great

Shaft's laser: Bad, at least for me it is....I can only play at the lowest settings and I noticed that half of the time I can't see the laser; It blinks in and out while moving putting me at a disadvantage because I'm the only one in the battle not knowing when he's being in a Shaft's sights :(

[Baasil 37]

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! This New update SUCKS! Like the last 20 updates! :angry: Night mode is complete garbage, unless you have dynamic lights. It looks like damn trash. It's just the same as day, with the darkness on low. Fix this now!!

[cobra007col 4]

REFUND crystals option to all shaft users can't be bothered to earn more crystals to earn another turret... doomed

Edited December 4, 2014 by cobra007col

[Doctor_Who131 14]

I really like the night mode. It adds to the battle.

 

I DO NOT like the laser site for Shaft.  It gives your position away before you fire and is a disadvantage to shaft users. Thunder and Smoky can be used mid-long range and you don't know where it's coming from, Shaft you do know where it's coming from with this update. - that's not fair. I think you missed the mark with the laser site for Shaft - Please reverse it and switch back Shaft.

 

[Doctor_Who131 14]

I haven't come across any night maps yet so I can't comment on them too much, though judging by the comments here that seems to be bad luck on my part rather than people not using them when they make a game! I know I enjoyed the halloween map so I imagine I'll like this.

 

As for the shaft update, I'm afraid I don't like it. Shaft has always been the sniper turret. A sniper is meant to remain hidden (where possible) and to be able to take their time over a shot that the enemy doesn't know is coming. Until now shaft did this very well but this new update completely does away with all of it, making the turret (and as such the tank) easy to spot and predictable and forcing tankers to rush their shots because they know as soon as they enter sniper mode they're a target. I don't personally think that the shake was much of an issue - it served to balance the turret within the game and could be adapted to with patience and experience. As someone that regularly uses twins, I've never found shaft to be an insurmountable problem, just another type of turret to adapt to playing against - it's just about thinking tactically. I very much appreciate the work that goes into the game and to this update but, in my personal view, it makes shaft a slightly lesser turret compared to the others in terms of game balancing, especially since you HAVE to enter sniper mode to get a full powered shot - perhaps that last point could be addressed.

 

Thank you for reading.

I couldn't had said this any better - This says it all!!! Great Post

[r_Just_T0 11]

yesterday with shaft before the update I had over 50 kills In a 15 min battle

today I have over 30 kills in a 15 min battle

 

I just don't like the lazer on shaft.