Guide [Issue 31] Dissected: Thunder

[Pathfinder 1,690]

Welcome, readers, to a new series in the EN newspaper! In the Dissected series, I will be picking apart a particular garage item, upon request, to try and give you both complete knowledge and sound understanding of its use in-game.

Thunder is, without doubt, one of the most dangerous turrets in the game, with a profile that makes it feared on nearly every map. The only weapon that can deal both long range and area splash damage, Thunder is extremely versatile, which is only matched by its damage-dealing capacity.

I hope this in-depth guide will provide you with a thorough array of knowledge, skills and tactics that will help you get the very most out of this amazing weapon.

 

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Learning the Basics
The very first thing you must do with any weapon is to understand its working mechanisms, as this essential knowledge underpins all the ideas and tactics that I will suggest. And although this comes with experience using the weapon, seeing the figures is definitely worth the effort.

Let's take a look at damage-dealing capacity first.



Thunder deals near enough 80 damage points per shot it makes, and it reloads in 2 seconds.



Now, it is important to make the distinction between 'reloads in 2 seconds' and 'shoots every 2 seconds'. This is a common mistake that players make, because there is a subtle difference - the first shot you fire at the enemy is already loaded. In effect, Thunder will have a free first shot, meaning it can shoot 2 shots in a time-frame of 2 seconds, 3 shots in a time-frame of 4 seconds and so on.

It is also very important to know how many shots it takes to take out a particular enemy. This is so you can make a pre-engagement judgment on whether or not the fight will favour you or not. Because of this, we must know how many shots it takes to finish off a particular enemy hull. Taking a look at the hit points of the respective hulls, we can see that Thunder takes 3 shots to take out enemy Wasps and Hornets, 4 shots to take out enemy Hunters and Vikings, 5 shots to take out enemy Dictators and Titans, and 6 shots to take out the mighty Mammoth. (Halve and round up to work out how many shots it takes with a Double Power activated.)

So, with the above knowledge, we can see that it will take 4 seconds to take out enemy Wasps and Hornets, 6 seconds for Hunters and Vikings, 8 seconds for Dictators and Titans, and 10 seconds for Mammoth.

When dealing with protective paints, it is always best to overcompensate at first. When dealing with an enemy Clay, for example, it's thunder protection could be anywhere between 20% and 50%. Assume 50%, but remember how many shots it took after the first engagement.

Before we move on, I think this is a good time to bust a myth that Smoky will always defeat Thunder within Smoky's effective range. Thunder destroys Viking in just 6 seconds as we have seen already. In this 6 seconds, Smoky can manage to fire 5 shots. The average Smoky shot deals 40.5+(0.1815*79.5) = 54.9 damage points. With 5 shots, Smoky will deal around 275 damage points. So in fact, Thunder/Viking will actually beat Smoky/Viking one-on-one most of the time, all other factors being equal, even if the range is within Smoky's optimum of 60 metres. The same is true for Hornet - Thunder will take out a Hornet in 4 seconds, which is time for Smoky to fire 3 shots, dealing roughly 165 damage points, whereas Hornet has 210 hit points.

Of course, there are other factors involved, namely paints and Thunder's self-damage, as well as skill, but what this does illustrate is that Thunder can compete at any range.

Another thing that is often forgotten with Thunder, in the shadow of Smoky, is that it actually has quite a reasonable impact force:



Not only does the shot itself pack impact, but the shock of the explosion itself also carries impact. In fact, this impact is powerful enough to perform parkour! Check out the video of the week for V-LOG 29: http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=239509.

This impact force is enough to knock off enemy aim for the lighter hulls and can definitely come in handy if used well!

As for range, Thunder has an effective range of 70 metres, that decreases to its minimum at 140 metres:



Now, when dealing with an other weapon, it is useful to know whether you have a range advantage or not. In this way, you can decide whether you should be maintaining distance or moving in closer.

As a Thunder user, you should be maintaining long range against every single weapon apart from Railgun and Shaft whenever possible, since being at longer range will always give you an advantage. Against Railgun, it is useful to be within the optimum range of 70 metres, but not close enough so that the enemy can use your self-damage against you. The same applies for Shaft.

Choosing a Hull
Your hull is the other half to your combo, and is obviously a key choice you must make. A lot of this is map dependent, and mode dependent, but I will give you some general guidelines from my personal experience.

• Light hulls - can be very effective especially on larger maps. The extra speed can allow you to get where you need to be, including capturing flags, and also allows you to maintain distance against short range weapons that are chasing you. Fast speed allows you to fire shots at large vertical angles and hit enemies far above you. Light weight allows you to use Thunder's recoil to right your tank while on a ledge, or falling from heights. However, on smaller maps, you lack of health will be a severe disadvantage. You will neither be able to take on heavier tanks who will just outmatch you in a head-on-duel, and you will not be able to take on lighter tanks who will run you out of space and use your splash self-damage against you. Overall, light hulls are only excel on large maps.
• Heavy hulls - Thunder doesn't actually have a particularly great sustained damage. In fact, it is only 40 damage per second, much lower that what Rico, Twins and the other short rangers can reach. Being slow means you cannot pick your fights very easily. In this way, if the enemies pick their fights skillfully, you will be at a disadvantage in many cases, if your enemies are smart. Your health advantage will be less useful. Furthermore, it is easy for enemies to pursue you and use your splash against you. The main times I see Thunder dominating is in a deathmatch where the Thunder user can sit and just aim. True, it can be used well, but overall, in principle with a weapon like Thunder that can deal high damage shots but not sustained damage, more speed would be better.
• Medium hulls - in general a good choice for a all-rounder weapon like Thunder. Fast enough, strong enough, in most situations.

I would personally recommend a medium hull as the main one for Thunder, but in cases where speed or health is more important, a heavy hull or light hull can be used effectively.

Choosing a Paint
To complete your combination, you must pick a suitable paint for Thunder. Now, it is clear that picking a Thunder protection paint gives you an extra bonus. This is because enemy Thunders are logically your largest threat, as they have every advantage that you have, but also because you will minimise your self-damage while at close range.

Knowing that we ideally want to choose a Thunder protection paint, our choice has been narrowed down considerably. And all the remaining are very usable, though Clay, Prodigi and Picasso would be at the very top of my list.

Remember that this is just a general guideline. If the enemy consisted of a whole team of Firebird users, obviously neither of the above would be great!

Splash Damage
Onto Thunder's perhaps most useful abilities, splash damage. As aforementioned, Thunder is the only weapon that can deal long-range area splash, meaning it can do things other turrets cannot do.

The first advantage is the ability to hit multiple enemies. This can effectively double or triple your damage, or more! So, when in game, in general, always aim for the largest group of enemy tanks, and when aiming at this group, always aim at the most central enemy. In this way, you will be sure to maximise the damage dealt. There are exceptions to this rule, for example if there is a single enemy that is making a beeline right at you, that tank is probably your first priority as a target.

Getting the most out a group splash shot may also involve a degree of maneuvering. You want to be in a position where you can shoot the most central shot, so try to get on higher ground to do this and into a position where you have a clear line of sight of the central player.

The second advantage you have it to hit enemies who are out of your direct line of sight. You can do this off walls, which is the one most players use, but you can also use this by shooting the ground near an enemy tank and even shooting one of your comrades! Don't forget to use your hull to help make large vertical angles, to shoot over your allies as well as shoot walls above and below your level.

Impact Force and Timing
Now, I'm sure you all have used impact force to your advantage at some point in time. It can help you to direct your enemy tank away from you, helping to avoid damage.

Firstly, impact force with Thunder is much easier to use than many other weapons. This is because Thunder's shot fires instantly, and there is no time delay between you pressing space and the shot hitting the enemy. In general you should aim to the edges of the enemy tanks, since you can direct their aim most easily this way (you get more 'leverage'). Because of this, it is much easier to use your recoil if you are firing at the flank of the enemy tank. In a maths sense this is so you can maximise the perpendicular distance between where your shot hits the enemy tank, and its centre of mass.

Sometimes, it is not necessary to direct the enemy tank around its centre of mass. If they are using a weapon with a high recoil, such as Railgun, if you time your shot right you can make them flip over, using a combination of their recoil and your own impact force. Again, this is easier if you are on the flank of the enemy.

Both of these illustrate an important aspect of positioning - you should, if possible, try and face head on with an enemy, and try and get on his flank. Not only does this tip the balance of recoil and impact force in your favour, but more simply it makes you a smaller target, and the enemy a larger one. It also eases your own use of the hull to shoot at large vertical angles.

Impact force, when understood, can be a powerful weapon. But, this can be much more powerful if you can get your timing right too. For example, when dealing with enemy Thunders and Smokys, if you know the rhythm of fire they use (2 and 1.3 second reload respectively), you can time your shot to come just before theirs, to throw their aim before they fire. They will have to readjust, wasting time, or if they are just spamming the space bar, they might even miss completely! For Railguns, since there is a 1 second shot delay (while the turret lights up), that is the perfect window to use your impact force. Since Railgun reloads in about 5 and a half seconds, this means you can put 2 shots at least on him before he can damage you back. Your third shot will reload on the 6th second, which is just when the Railgun is charging and about to fire - the perfect time to shoot.

This comes with experience. The more you play, the better you will be at taking on enemies one-on-one, where these small tactics can land the advantage in your hands.

 

Just as an extra, Thunder's impact force can help you shoot, without falling over, a greater range of enemies when you are up on a ledge, and can also help when landing upright after a drop from up high.

Close Range Combat
Thunder is of course a medium, if not long range turret, so you should be trying to keep your distance with most weapons, especially the ones that specialise at short-range. However, no matter how good you are, you will have to deal with some tanks that reach you at some point. Say the enemy is right up close. Then what?

The first thing I would consider is if I could use a mine to my advantage. Since I want to avoid self-damage as much as possible, mining seems to be a good idea. If they are pushing you from the side, drop the mine, shuffle forwards and backwards, and let them push themselves on to it. If they are pushing you from the front or back, drop the mine, and slowly back off. Even if the enemy is smart to avoid it, they might have to take a step back, giving you a chance to get a better shot at him and avoid self-damage.

If mining is not an option, or if the mine did not finish him off, consider if you can avoid self-damage while shooting. Can you use a wall, or tank, that is nearer to the enemy to hit him with splash? If not, and you are forced to shoot at him directly, is that worthwhile? If the enemy is wearing Emerald, and you have no Thunder protection, you might be doing more harm than good.

If you decide that there is no way out, rather than wait to self-destruct, see if there is anything else you can do. Maybe there are other enemies that you can shoot at, or maybe there is a position you can get to that would obstruct the enemy in the most inconvenient way.

Taking on the Rest
This section I have dedicated to explaining the general principles you should use when taking on each of the other weapons, keeping to Ultimate Guide tradition!

 

Firebird

This is a weapon that can melt your tank, but only within its very limited range. As a Thunder user, you should always be on the lookout for enemy tanks, in as many directions as possible, so that you can sport enemy short-rangers before its too late. From range, Firebird doesn't stand a chance. If Firebird reaches you, try some of the tips I suggested above for short range combat.

 

Freeze

As a short range weapon, dealing with this is pretty similar to Firebird. But, it might be better to try and retreat into a corner or wall if you can't run, since this makes it much harder for the Freeze to circle you.

 

Isida

Again, if an Isida that hasn't depleted its charge latches onto you at close range, your chances aren't great. But if you spot it far in advance, and manage to lay down some pre-engagement shots, it will make your life a lot easier.

 

Twins

This is a weapon that has a much higher damage dealing rate than Thunder in an open confrontation. So the solution? Don't confront it head on! Instead, try to stay in cover while your weapon reloads, and use peek-a-boo tactics and splash to hit him while minimising the damage you take yourself. If this isn't possible, try and maintain distance and move across him forward and backwards while shooting, as this makes it much harder for the enemy to hit you, especially with the slow projectile speed of Twins. Unless the map is very small, Twins is generally an easier foe to take on with Thunder.

 

Hammer

A tough enemy to deal with at short range, since Hammer has such high impact force and damage, as well as instant shot time. However, Hammer does not have splash, so try and use this advantage to its fullest, using the obstacles or the ground to damage him while remaining in cover. Also, even if Hammer shoots you, its damage is proportional the number of pellets that hit you. This means that having a small part of your tank exposed from behind cover is better than being completely open. Hammer's damage also decreases with range, so try and keep distance as much as possible.

 

Ricochet

A much more dangerous foe, as it can very quickly unleash and destroy your tank. Be aware also of the ability to bounce projectiles off surfaces - a position you may think is safe may not be! Again, although Ricochet has a faster projectile speed than Twins, it still takes time to reach you, so try and use peek-a-boo and splash whenever possible, and try to keep your range, as this makes it harder for the enemy to hit you. If you see the enemy offloading all his ammunition, don't forget, he can only keep it up for 5 seconds maximum. Wait for him to waste his shots.

 

Smoky

Possibly Thunder's biggest rival at medium range, Smoky has a devastating impact force and instant shot time, so watch out for this. Try to keep your range, as Thunder has better range, and also try as much as possible to use cover for peek-a-boo, since Smoky has a faster reload.

 

Thunder

Dealing with the same turret as yourself is never straightforward, since they have every single advantage that you have. You have to try your best to outsmart the enemy Thunder, using splash and impact force timing as mentioned above. Also, getting the first shot is more important here than for other turrets - if you get the first shot, you will always be one step ahead!

 

Railgun

Railgun will try to hide while reloading, so watch out for this. Be cautious when Railgun has a shot ready, and alert to use your impact force when possible. When Railgun is loading, try and pursue the enemy as much as possible to try and deal as much damage as possible. Thunder in pursuit with its splash is not a nice sight for a Railgun.

 

Shaft

Dealing with Shaft is pretty similar for all weapons. Try to avoid heading for him across open parts of the map, and use more covered and sheltered routes. Also, watch out for the way the Shaft is pointing and whether laser scope is being used - this can help you know whether you are in the enemy's field of view.

I think that's about it! I really hope you enjoyed this one, I feel like it was one of my more detailed and insightful guides, and I hope you have learned something somewhere!

Full credits go to for her work on the excellent title picture.

Please feel free to share your own thoughts and experiences with this weapon, and if you want to see another weapon dissected into complete guide form, don't forget to suggest it!

Edited July 30, 2017 by Hexed

[hogree 4,179]

Brilliant article. Title didn't let down - that's how to dissect a weapon!

[Reeco9 1,567]

A great analysis of my favourite turret - good job  ;)

[ruchi2000 8]

Well done Kirby :) 

[Celestial_Maelstrom 23]

Great article

[jazz20 1,181]

This must have taken a lot of time and effort :O . A VERY VERY good guide to Thunder.

 

Suggesstion: Isida? It's such a unique turret and can perform a variety of game-modes.

[Superlative 500]

True to your word. An exceptional piece.

[rothro3 50]

Good job!

[Lord-of-the-Snipers 1,620]

Dissecting a Thunder...what happened to respect in this world... :(

 

Well, it was worth it.

Excellent job by !

[ShadowyNinja 208]

great guide, please dissect RAILGUN next. thanks

[X_Champ 145]

See why i love this gun.... JUST AMAZING

 

nice work kirby :D

Edited January 31, 2015 by X_Champ

[Cor7y 13,862]

You dissected my favourite weapon: That's how u get my respect!

[Superlative 500]

Next on the line, Railgun?

[proffesor_theo 48]

i was having second thoughts on my next m2 being thunder but now I'm definitely gonna buy it :3, any chance the next one can be on rico

[Mr.I3oSS 557]

*claps*

[My_Tiger_Psy 4]

Amazing job!

[Quarks 2,255]

You dissected my favourite weapon: That's how u get my respect!

This might replace me for favorite gun, right now I'm smoky (m1) and rail (mo, duh), I think I'll make the switch.  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

[Athena369 265]

Very well written indeed. Keep it up!

[GreeceG4 1]

Nice but help me with one this i use thunder m2 and dictator m2 which suits better with thunder viking or dictator . also i think to full micro update thunder m3 when i reach brigadier .i am major ,, what is your opinion man

[Pathfinder 1,690]

Nice but help me with one this i use thunder m2 and dictator m2 which suits better with thunder viking or dictator . also i think to full micro update thunder m3 when i reach brigadier .i am major ,, what is your opinion man

Both are quite good hulls with Thunder, though I prefer my viking :) just because it's slightly faster and has a slightly lower profile, although dictator has its advantages.

 

Definitely recommend it, Thunder m3 needs a few MUs, and wif you ever reach M4 it's such a good weapon

[doduobird 315]

Dissect smoky next k thx

[TheIronRAVEN 0]

I've recently found the Thunder to be my new favorite. It works very well in combination with my Hunter hull + Lead paint. With the Hunter, the only weapon I really need to protect myself from is the Shaft which the paint does very well. The damage boost powerup is a total treat especially when I pop out in the middle of a crossfire and starts unloading on the damaged tanks 1-hitting the lighter hulls sometimes simultaneously.

 

I'll stick to this loadout for now until my rank can afford the paints you've suggested. Thanks for the guide! 

[GurmitSingh 27]

Can you recommend some tips on fighting Vulcan with Thunder?  :lol: Thanks!

[thunderousrailgunner 1,934]

Can you recommend some tips on fighting Vulcan with Thunder?  :lol: Thanks!

1) Take Advantage Of Their Start-Up Time .

2) Move Constantly , this will Make a Mess In Their Aim . 

3) Hide Behind Obstacles , They Will Either Stop Shooting And You Can Do 1) 

4) If They Constantly Shoot Even After Doing 3) Wait as They Will Start To Heat Up And Take Self-Damage , Then Shoot Them .

This Will Make Easy To Fight With Vulcan .