IP-Check for mult suspects

[andreaNEW 108]

That's why it's currently done by moderators, when we're in the battle, we can access a list of players in the battle and different kind of stats, together with each of them's IP. As said above, one IP address may be used by many people. If more than one player has the same IP, it doesn't necessarily mean they all are multing, it needs to be checked if they all are playing, how active they are, their points, etc. and can be punished for sabotage only if they're interrupting their teammates/helping the enemy/just driving around without helping their team.

The only way to solve this problems is a kind of 'automatic kick system', something like -Battles with obvious outcome will end sooner- applied for single player. Players who don't fit the game will be kicked. This is solve multi, player with low rank on high rank battle, players on team battle who are waiting for gold instead of fight with his team, etc. etc.

 

Simple, easy, less work for mods, less player who complain.

 

Come on Tanki, it's time to solve this problem  ;)

 

Andrea

[RustyNail 1,538]

 

• The problem is definitely real.
• Tanki does not care at this moment.
• There are many excellent ways to solve the problem.
• Again Tanki does not care at this moment. 
• We can complain and moan all we want
• But yet again Tanki does not care.

Anyone else see a pattern here.  Maybe if we all pick the exact same time and all stop playing for just one day "maybe" Tanki may notice and start to care.  But wait the number of unhappy players is way too small compared to those who don't even notice or are mults and saboteurs themselves.

WOW I'm right back at "Tanki does not care" again.  :( We are doomed to suffering. At least we have the option of not giving Tanki another penny of our money until they do something. 

 

If anyone payed attention to the last V-blog . The only questions they answered where posted on Facebook. Who wants to move this discussion to a bigger audience? Maybe the campaign to rid ourselves of the plaque of mults and saboteurs will be more successful if taken to the social media. 

 

I thought of that. But untill now I chose to keep the complain "INSIDE" Tanki. Movint to fb would make negative ad to Tanki and untill now I didn't want to start damaging the game on a sosial medium. But I 'll consider what you say..

[haris2000 211]

Some people are AFK for many reasons ... Some of them toillet, eat something, drink something, or and sometimes they help their friends ... That's happened to me today ... It was a marshal and he had m1 titan and m0 hammer and black paint ... This Will be closed

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Some people are AFK for many reasons ... Some of them toillet, eat something, drink something, or and sometimes they help their friends ... That's happened to me today ... It was a marshal and he had m1 titan and m0 hammer and black paint ... This Will be closed

There is no reason to be AFK in non pro-battles of 30 mins or less. If you can't hold it in or you think you will pass out from thirst or hunger then don't even join the game. Leave and quit being a mult. Selfishness like that spoils games for others. This should stay open!

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

 

The only way to solve this problems is a kind of 'automatic kick system', something like -

 

This is solve multi, player with low rank on high rank battle,

 

An automatic system is not the only solution. On the kick2 topic, I suggest players moderation and add a degree of automation as an option. Automation would need certain conditions to work but those same conditions could accidentally filter out some players that don't need booting. There are many WO5s who are perfectly able to play with several ranks above them for example.

 

imo, automation can be used but only in conjunction with players moderation to facilitate the kicking of undesirables. The final decision shouldn't be automatic.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

(answer for both)

That's not what I wrote. Please, read more carefully. Suspicious attitude must be observed, and a complain be made. Then, if same IP is found punishment follows. But, provided that behaviour (D/L ratio, score etc) is indicative of multing. That's fair I think.

D/L ratio can never be used. An isida can perform perfectly well without destroying any enemy. 

[RustyNail 1,538]

D/L ratio can never be used. An isida can perform perfectly well without destroying any enemy. 

An isida shows action if heals teammates or even goes for flag. Who would start a complain for an isida that heals him or supports the mammoth / titan that supports the flag or attacks the enemy base along with others? Even if due to an emergency it stays AWK for a couple of minutes? D/L ration is not the only parameter a mod checks but one among many, isn't that right?

[blackopspaul 753]

How about we just bring back the kick system? 

Updated and better version of it.

[r_priyangshu0 270]

There is no reason to be AFK in non pro-battles of 30 mins or less. If you can't hold it in or you think you will pass out from thirst or hunger then don't even join the game. Leave and quit being a mult. Selfishness like that spoils games for others. This should stay open!

There are many reasons to be AFK.AFK isn't something that happens with same reasons everytime.For example, my dad calls me during a battle when I just joined it to have a talk with me.You cannot say there is no reason to be AFK.Back to the point I say this isn't a properly constructed idea due to the fact that friends will certainly play with each other to know who is better.This is very common, and that one of them might be AFK, doesn't mean both should be punished.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

How about we just bring back the kick system? 

Updated and better version of it.

When the old one was scrapped, talked about good news about a new mechanism being planned. That was over 10 months ago. Not a peep since.

[blackopspaul 753]

Wrong words

1st players*

2nd move*

You do know you can edit your posts at the left hand corner of your posts.

[haris2000 211]

You do know you can edit your posts at the left hand corner of your posts.

i forgot :(

[haris2000 211]

There is no reason to be AFK in non pro-battles of 30 mins or less. If you can't hold it in or you think you will pass out from thirst or hunger then don't even join the game. Leave and quit being a mult. Selfishness like that spoils games for others. This should stay open!

i agree .,.

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

There are many reasons to be AFK.AFK isn't something that happens with same reasons everytime.For example, my dad calls me during a battle when I just joined it to have a talk with me.You cannot say there is no reason to be AFK.Back to the point I say this isn't a properly constructed idea due to the fact that friends will certainly play with each other to know who is better.This is very common, and that one of them might be AFK, doesn't mean both should be punished.

If you just joined, leave the battle you aren't earning any crystals anyway but during the 5 mins you are AFK, before the system kicks you for inactivity, your team is one or more men down. That makes you a mult.

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

The automated system that removes you after 5 mins has flaws. My suggestions are only for non PRO battles.

• The amount of time you can be inactive should reduced to 90 seconds. I mean truly inactive, no input from your keyboard.
• The amount of time you are allowed in the garage should be reduced to 2 minutes. You should be able to get anything you need in the garage in 2 minutes, if not you are wasting time.
• The "pause" should only be available in the 30 minute and 60 minute battles. You have no need to be AFK at all in a 15 minute battle.
• If you have been automatically removed by the system you should not be able to re-enter the same battle, and your name should be added to a watch list. If you continuously are being removed from battles something is wrong, and you need to get a warning followed by a ban.

---

 

The idea suggested here is not too bad, however I would suggest it work like this. First some background information, a Moderator's attention is drawn to a battle be means of a yellow title. If enough players use the /vote command the title of that battle turns yellow and a mod can go to that battle to see what is going on. There may be other conditions that trigger the yellow title as well, I'm not sure.

• Using the IP address, if 2 or more players are sharing the same IP the battle title could turn orange. This way a mod could go and check to see who they are and what they are doing.
• If 2 or more players are sharing the same IP and any of those have a zero score, turn the title red.  It could also be automated that if any of the sharing player continue to have zero score after 2 minutes, then all players sharing the IP get removed from the battle. Clearly someone is being a mult.

---

 

The player moderated idea (KICK2 - the idea suggested by @AbsoluteZero) can and will be able to take care of all the other cases where a human is a better judge of a players worth to the team than an automated system.

• During the time a player is on probation the battle title could be highlighted for mods as well. This would just add an additional layer of protection for those worried about abuse. 

 

---

With all these simple systems in place it would be far easier for mods to monitor the problem battles.

[andreaNEW 108]

An automatic system is not the only solution. On the kick2 topic, I suggest players moderation and add a degree of automation as an option. Automation would need certain conditions to work but those same conditions could accidentally filter out some players that don't need booting. 

 

I agree with your idea and I read that post. I checked the formulas on the topic and there are concern about time / points / average score / etc ... I can't see a situation in which a player could be kicked by mistake (I thin you and Canada_eh wrote this, good job) 

 

 

 

 There are many WO5s who are perfectly able to play with several ranks above them for example.

 

 

it's right. but ... if a player would play a good game against higher ranked players, it means he would have a good score , didn't he ? even if he plays with isida  ... may be his D/L could be not great, but his average points will be good, and an automatic 'kick2' system will never fault

 

 

 

imo, automation can be used but only in conjunction with players moderation to facilitate the kicking of undesirables. The final decision shouldn't be automatic.

 

I know you suggested players could vote for a ban on your kick2 system, but I fear a lot of people don't care about ban because they prefer leave the game (may be I am wrong, IDK)

May be we can hope on moderations help ? you know, simultaneously there are thousand of battles and tens of server: how many mods Tanki have ? very few

 

So ... there are not enough mods and we can't trust on players feedback: what can we do ? we will live forever with multy, saboteurs, gold hunters, etc ?

 

IMHO your system kick2 would work perfectly WITHOUT any humans involvement

 

my 2 cents

 

Andrea

 

 

[RustyNail 1,538]

I will try to comment inside the quote.

 

The automated system that removes you after 5 mins has flaws. My suggestions are only for non PRO battles.

• The amount of time you can be inactive should reduced to 90 seconds. I mean truly inactive, no input from your keyboard.

That's not enough. Answering a call quickly or using the bathroom or brinking a glass of water takes a little longer. Not much but 2 minutes are a must.

• The amount of time you are allowed in the garage should be reduced to 2 minutes. You should be able to get anything you need in the garage in 2 minutes, if not you are wasting time.

That's marginal. One of my big frustrations is while I wait for my garage to load, especialy for the first time. An aditional 30'' is required.

• The "pause" should only be available in the 30 minute and 60 minute battles. You have no need to be AFK at all in a 15 minute battle.

Now you are too severe. This is a game, not a military op. There are reasons for a pause even in 15' battles. It happens to me every once in a while.

• If you have been automatically removed by the system you should not be able to re-enter the same battle, and your name should be added to a watch list. If you continuously are being removed from battles something is wrong, and you need to get a warning followed by a ban.

Here I agree 100%. Furthermore, it is reason (parameter) for a monitoring and check afterwards via recording of game data.

---

 

The idea suggested here is not too bad, however I would suggest it work like this. First some background information, a Moderator's attention is drawn to a battle be means of a yellow title. If enough players use the /vote command the title of that battle turns yellow and a mod can go to that battle to see what is going on. There may be other conditions that trigger the yellow title as well, I'm not sure.

 

I have to make clear that my idea does not regard a live check but the launching of a complete - as complete as possible, even to the point of recording the game from the view point of the person that makes the complain and the person(s) of interest - monitoring for play-back check by a moderator. It is based on the assumption that mods are too few for live / instant help in any battle that a complain (vote) is made. At least, that's what everybody says...

So, what you say after this point doesn't have to do with my idea and could work parallel to it.

• Using the IP address, if 2 or more players are sharing the same IP the battle title could turn orange. This way a mod could go and check to see who they are and what they are doing.
• If 2 or more players are sharing the same IP and any of those have a zero score, turn the title red.  It could also be automated that if any of the sharing player continue to have zero score after 2 minutes, then all players sharing the IP get removed from the battle. Clearly someone is being a mult.

---

 

The player moderated idea (KICK2 - the idea suggested by @AbsoluteZero) can and will be able to take care of all the other cases where a human is a better judge of a players worth to the team than an automated system.

• During the time a player is on probation the battle title could be highlighted for mods as well. This would just add an additional layer of protection for those worried about abuse. 

 

---

With all these simple systems in place it would be far easier for mods to monitor the problem battles.

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

I will try to comment inside the quote.

The automated system that removes you after 5 mins has flaws. My suggestions are only for non PRO battles.

• The amount of time you can be inactive should reduced to 90 seconds. I mean truly inactive, no input from your keyboard.

That's not enough. Answering a call quickly or using the bathroom or brinking a glass of water takes a little longer. Not much but 2 minutes are a must.

Well if a player is going to be AFK then use "pause". A mult sits inactive, someone on a quick break can use "pause". It is a really good way to tell the difference and if they can't, or forget, to click pause, that's their fault.

• The amount of time you are allowed in the garage should be reduced to 2 minutes. You should be able to get anything you need in the garage in 2 minutes, if not you are wasting time.

That's marginal. One of my big frustrations is while I wait for my garage to load, especialy for the first time. An aditional 30'' is required.

Well they could set the program to start the timer after the garage fully loads, then 2 minutes is still enough time.

• The "pause" should only be available in the 30 minute and 60 minute battles. You have no need to be AFK at all in a 15 minute battle.

Now you are too severe. This is a game, not a military op. There are reasons for a pause even in 15' battles. It happens to me every once in a while.  I know this is a game but is it fair to everyone else, for someone to be away on "pause" for 5 minutes in a 15' battle?  No, it is not, besides the battle fund will be small enough that leaving will not cost too much. 

• If you have been automatically removed by the system you should not be able to re-enter the same battle, and your name should be added to a watch list. If you continuously are being removed from battles something is wrong, and you need to get a warning followed by a ban.

Here I agree 100%. Furthermore, it is reason (parameter) for a monitoring and check afterwards via recording of game data. I don't think they have the resources to record every battle that someone issued a complaint. 

 

The garage and the pause system are being exploited to cheat honest players. Mults use them all the time. How many times have you seen a player hiding in the garage or on pause? (well actually you don't  "see" them that's the point)

 

I should have mentioned that these systems are already in place and would only require some tweaking by the Devs.  Also with these tweaks /vote would be needed less and could actually be removed. This would greatly reduce the work load for the mods, they would not need to check a battle because someone used /vote to complain about some guy not sharing flags or some other stupid reason. This would free them up to focus on real violators.

 

I understand that my suggestions seem harsh but are we trying to stop people from ruining the game or not? If I have to deal with a slight inconvenience of having to plan my game play or possibly give up a battle fund or two to get rid of these inconsiderate, rude, and selfish people, I'm willing to do it. Are you?

[RustyNail 1,538]

@ Canadian_Eh

First and second are an agreement, third is a maybe (about 5' pause) and on the most interesting...

I don't really know how difficult or consuming can a monitoring be..

I proposed an idea that I can't really "measure" technically. Let's say I trust Devs on that. But the spirit is based on the probability that mults continue to act as mults, so they repeat their inbattle behaviour.

So, making a claim for a possible mult could eventually create a long "file" of this account. Now, if Tanki can relate this account to an IP, will probably access the creator of mults, thus punishing the creator and, if he contimoues after the ban they can ban the IP itself.

 

Since mods are not enough to handle all the complains online, need is for both automatic tools (like Kick-2) or some kind of monitoring mult suspects data (including IP) and human-performed decision, in order to minimize or even eliminate mults from the battles.

[Promissory 569]

Score/Time played

That should be the most important data.

[andreaNEW 108]

The automated system that removes you after 5 mins has flaws. My suggestions are only for non PRO battles.

• The amount of time you can be inactive should reduced to 90 seconds. I mean truly inactive, no input from your keyboard.

That's not enough. Answering a call quickly or using the bathroom or brinking a glass of water takes a little longer. Not much but 2 minutes are a must.

Well if a player is going to be AFK then use "pause". A mult sits inactive, someone on a quick break can use "pause". It is a really good way to tell the difference and if they can't, or forget, to click pause, that's their fault.

• The amount of time you are allowed in the garage should be reduced to 2 minutes. You should be able to get anything you need in the garage in 2 minutes, if not you are wasting time.

That's marginal. One of my big frustrations is while I wait for my garage to load, especialy for the first time. An aditional 30'' is required.

Well they could set the program to start the timer after the garage fully loads, then 2 minutes is still enough time.

• The "pause" should only be available in the 30 minute and 60 minute battles. You have no need to be AFK at all in a 15 minute battle.

Now you are too severe. This is a game, not a military op. There are reasons for a pause even in 15' battles. It happens to me every once in a while.  I know this is a game but is it fair to everyone else, for someone to be away on "pause" for 5 minutes in a 15' battle?  No, it is not, besides the battle fund will be small enough that leaving will not cost too much. 

 

I try to suggest something:  a player join a battle, after 5 minutes the 'automatic kick2' checks his average points and the average points of his team: if he fits the game it's ok, otherwise ... out. 

I don't see any flaw ... if you play good , noboby care when you stop play (bath, garage, cigaret, the phone rang, the door bell) until your average score are good enough.

 

Why not ?

 

Andrea

PS: Tanki Online staff are aware of this topic (and other topics about the same issue), I am pretty sure about this

[Canadian_Eh 1,354]

What happened to this topic? How quickly we lose interest.

[RustyNail 1,538]

There are relatively very few people that are interested in this matter. And they have been stated their opinion.

Now the ball is at the Devs' ground.

Will they respond and participate in the topic?

I don't know.

Do they find anything said here interesting?

I don't know.

 

Either way, [suspects' IP lists or Kick-2 (or both)] they usually keep their cards closed.

[deadtoyou 2,502]

I still hope for a better kicking/reporting system.

 

I hope we all do.....

[haris2000 211]

I still hope for a better kicking/reporting system.

 

I hope we all do.....

Now i understand better and i agree ^_^