Reduce power of garage supplies

[RustyNail 1,538]

I Too Know that , But There should be a Decision Overall , Whether its good or Bad :)

There is that decision you say, and it's upthumb for druggers. But we do not accept it and we gather data supporting our thesis.

 

Well They Don't Understand What i Meant I Not Even Opposed Anybody, Thats why Their Rage is in the Form of Downvotes ,

 

I understand quite well what you mean. I was the first to give you a downvote. I did so because you don't understand the severity of this problem.

[thunderousrailgunner 1,934]

There is that decision you say, and it's upthumb for druggers. But we do not accept it and we gather data supporting our thesis.

 

 

I understand quite well what you mean. I was the first to give you a downvote. I did so because you don't understand the severity of this problem.

You Still Didn't Understand . In Order to Control And Vanish this Problem of Druggers , Some Decision has to be Taken , That is the thing I Meant in that statement .. i didn't Get Angry on You Cuz You're Giving a Downvote , Its your Choice , I am Telling Some Decision has to be Taken in Order to Control (or ) Abolish This Problem .

Now Can you Understand ?

[RustyNail 1,538]

You Still Didn't Understand . In Order to Control And Vanish this Problem of Druggers , Some Decision has to be Taken , That is the thing I Meant in that statement .. i didn't Get Angry on You Cuz You're Giving a Downvote , Its your Choice , I am Telling Some Decision has to be Taken in Order to Control (or ) Abolish This Problem .

Now Can you Understand ?

LOL I told you, I do understand you. You should know, I don't use upvotes and downvotes as emotional signials, just to show if I share the same opinion or not. So downvoting meant that I disagree with you. It is possible for someone to disagree with you, right?

[Brubook 1,161]

Another "balanced" battle of Druggi Online!

No need to comment!!

 

 

[Brubook 1,161]

And this is what Kirby2008 define "balance" !!!

 

I define it "trembling fingers devastation" !!!

 

Please notice that JROCKS (who commented here) took the opportunity and followed the wave ... like "if I finished my drugs, at least let's follow another insane drugger" ... not much fun, but he wins!!

 

 

And this is the "balanced" end of it!!!

 

[Brubook 1,161]

Same match as above, different round ..... same "balance" !!!!!!

 

 

 

 

[HellfireCommando 179]

Maybe if we don't allow supplies to be bought from the garage...

That wouldn't work for a number of reasons. None of which I really feel like posting.

[RustyNail 1,538]

DRUG FRENZY! JUST UNACCEPTABLE, NOTHING LESS! :wacko:

 

 

 

 

 

THE RESULT:

http://prntscr.com/7cfldo

 

NEXT ROUND (NEW BLOOD)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

THE RESULT:

http://prntscr.com/7cfnef

 

NOTICE: I don't call names (noob etc) generalissimos that drug. At the last rank there's no other step to climb. So drugs are acceptable.

But take a notice in the sheer power and the difference in performance (most of them were fully MUed, I know because I often got oneshot killed) that creates severe unbalance and no-win possibilities for non druggers...

 

Supply usage must be reduced even more in standard battles. Generalissimos with tons of supplies and no real need for savings can buy pro pass without even notice it. That's the place for drug wars.

[blacksouleater 190]

This topic is obviously of great interest to me. I've been watching the back and forth and it seems like a few would like to see improvement and there's a lot of "that's the way it is", a defeatist attitude if ever I've heard one. I read earlier that this is how war is. Having spent some time in one I will tell you now..It's not. Let's talk about "Supplies" since many want to justify a bad situation with a generic term. "Supplies" are used to keep an army alive so that hopefully they may fight another day . They are items like medical,blankets, clothing, food...etc.

"Weapons allotments", come under  armament headings and are items such as ammunition and materials for repairs. I have never seen any "Supply" item that could increase armor, or speed thereby increasing power. I'm sure any government would love that. It doesn't happen.

Supplies have nothing to do with "enhancing or changing the power structure of a weapon, or a person.  So let's at least agree to call this what it is..."Drugs".

I have to laugh to myself when I hear over and over that the powers that be "give" these to the players every day. No they dont! Just like any pusher on the street, they provide these goods which in turn players pay to use, and just like any junkie, they become enthralled with the feeling of power that it provides. They become invincible in their minds, especially the obviously younger players. There is increasingly more insulting and abusing by players who believe that this is the real way to play the game. There is no such thing as skill, no such thing as strategy, just get your fix and conquer the world.  It's not fair to the people who just want to compete in what is supposed to be a game of adversarial competition on what should be a fun level.

Tonight I wanted to put i n a whole evening of play. I entered four battles, all were RIO CTF. I called it an early evening, couldn't stand it anymore.

The first battle had almost 3 minutes left in a 15 minute battle. the sides were evenly matched at 10 players and the score was 20 to 0 red team!!

There were symbol- ridden groups of 4 tanks just annihilating anything in their path. The result? blue team players were clustered in small groups trying to survive. No one was even trying for the flag. They were riding out the clock to get some scraps. My tank is an M1 twins and hunter combo, not the greatest but I love it and it does damage in a good, fair match, I could not make a dent here. I left with 30 seconds on the clock.

The next 3 battles I won't go into except to say that the amount of drugging, verbal nastiness and abuse was saddening, You cannot fight in a battle that leaves you feeling completely alone and without hope. Contrary to popular belief, this is not a pumped up superstar event. This supposed to be a team competition with each player looking out for each other and striving "TOGETHER." Drugs are changing all that. It is producing solitary superstars within a team and the result is in-fighting and then it all goes to hell. Beleive me I know. It was a rough weekend here. Tonight one of my teammates kept typing, "They just keep killing me how is that happening?" Sad.

This game drew me with it's claim to good competition in a unique way. Now that I have been here for awhile, I see that it was a lie.

This game has a big problem here. If they don't do something to reign it in all you will have is massive drugger competition, the fun competition minded folks will move on and sooner or later this game will fail. Many will argue for drugs..good for you. I will argue for fair competitive play and good ethical behavior during that play. The ethical behavior is starting to go. I hear more really nasty inults and name calling in battles than I hear encouragement. Tonight I was ridiculed by my own teamate because I was trying to fight through this mess using an agressive style. It's all I had.He thought that was funny and that my tank combo was funny and then iI noticed that he was drugging too..I left. On and on and on.

I'm not sure what I'll do at the moment, maybe take a few days off. This is hard for someone who plays a bit everyday,but, I just cant stand the abuse that these meth head tankers are dishing out. Time to take a breath and think . I love the concept. Maybe I'll stay. don't know, but this I do know... if you love this game, someone needs to do something or it will fail. Brubook and RustyNail I thank you for seeing the layers of this problem and realizing that it needs to be approached that way. In the end it may just be folks like you two that keep me here and fighting. Thanks for listening.           Peace

[HellfireCommando 179]

One more proposal in regard to supplies used together.

Maybe the "power" of the supply is relative to the use of any other, in a way like smart cooldowns.

That is, a supply gives 100% its power when used alone

If another one is added , then they both give 75% of their power.

If a third is added, then all three fall to 50% of their power.

 

Same applies for repair kit in regard to other supplies.

If applied when one other supply is activated, it gives 100% restore of health.

If applied when two supplies are active, then it restores 75% of health.

If applied when all three are active, then it restores only 50% of health.

 

Thus, the more one uses supplies, the less strong they are.

This is I think a great idea. The problem with doing a large nerf, is that it could tip tanki's profit completely. So, there'd need to be small steps before a balance is achieved, instead of going complete large insta-nerf. This would nerf them, but they would be useful still, and druggers would still be able to use drugs without finding they're not going to affect anything

 

Also, I think health needs nerfing the most. It's just OP in every regard. In the middle of a 1 v 1 in a battle, press 1 and your opponent does nothing to you for 3 seconds, you can't be frozen or burned, and you're at full health. Yes they're more expensive, but that isn't exactly doing what I'd call affecting the outcome of their power much. It's like the jack of all trades drug. Use it to win against others easy, use it to run with the flag, use it to get away from a fire or freeze, use it for invulnerability, and heal. What can opponents do to counteract this? Apart from a one shot kill, which is impossible on a heavier hull, they can't do a thing.

[Thomas_Sun 25]

As promised - do my own voting system to see how many supporters we have (or not).

Since Tanki will not be keen to allow us to vote on 'drug issues', I have come up with a crude mechanism (protest vote):

I.e. if all the tankers who read this and want more controlled drug use (or not) in Tanki, will copy and paste this into a series of updates - we will get a massive thread to show what we think........

Could you please explain me what it exactly means? „copy and paste this into a series of updates“ Should I copy your questionnaire or yellow message and copy to ?? what is series of updates? Sorry I’m not a native EN speaker but I would like to support each activity to split the usual players and the drugers. Thanks for the explanation.

[Pathfinder 1,690]

 

 

 

And this is what Kirby2008 define "balance" !!!

 

I define it "trembling fingers devastation" !!!

 

Please notice that JROCKS (who commented here) took the opportunity and followed the wave ... like "if I finished my drugs, at least let's follow another insane drugger" ... not much fun, but he wins!!

 

 

And this is the "balanced" end of it!!!

 

 

 

I thoroughly support this topic, up until the point when you try to "name and shame", especially since you weren't even in the game to be able to say whether I was actually drugging or not. A high score does not mean continuous drugging, don't jump to conclusions, just because you can't manage it yourself (not meant in an insulting way).

 

I attribute the above game to M4 Thunder against an ill prepared team.  If you think that score is a lot,

 

 

If you think I need drugs continuously to perform, how do you suppose I keep up my drug count? :P If you have the full screenshot of the above photo you posted, please do compare my drug count in each of these two pics, and then tell me I'm a chronic drugger! As I say, I have never bought crystals, or drugs.

 

I'd like to stress I do agree with this topic. Drugs are very strong. But really, is it the fault of the developers or the fault of the players here? Naming and shaming isn't a healthy thing, especially when something isn't true.

[Chameleos 157]

As I say, I have never bought crystals, or drugs.

Reporters get paid in crystals for their articles. Just saying.

 

That said, Thunder M4 is overwhelming in power, and that's possible without the "tools of the devil", as I call them :P

[TheGoldenTanker 4,951]

One of the best discussions I've ever seen in a topic.

[Brubook 1,161]

I thoroughly support this topic, up until the point when you try to "name and shame", especially since you weren't even in the game to be able to say whether I was actually drugging or not. A high score does not mean continuous drugging, don't jump to conclusions, just because you can't manage it yourself (not meant in an insulting way).

 

I attribute the above game to M4 Thunder against an ill prepared team.  If you think that score is a lot,

 

 

If you think I need drugs continuously to perform, how do you suppose I keep up my drug count? :P If you have the full screenshot of the above photo you posted, please do compare my drug count in each of these two pics, and then tell me I'm a chronic drugger! As I say, I have never bought crystals, or drugs.

 

I'd like to stress I do agree with this topic. Drugs are very strong. But really, is it the fault of the developers or the fault of the players here? Naming and shaming isn't a healthy thing, especially when something isn't true.

Hello Kirby2008

 

Maybe you didn't notice me, but I was in that battle and I made those stats after exiting, so I saw you and all the teams playing. To be honest you were not in a triple xmas tree, but you were in DD most of the time. I also told you "hello" when I entered, but maybe you didn't see it :)

 

I don't think that that score is a lot ... I think that the difference in score is too high. I think that a result 28:1 is an unbalance!

In the battle you shown I see a 2.100 XP vs a 400 XP on the top opponent and I see a 25:5 score. Not high, not low ... just incredibly unbalanced!!!

This is the point: balance!

 

You say me to compare your 2 pics to check drugs count. Maybe I missed something, but I see just 1 pic of you ... how can I compare? (even if that is not my interest, I mean you are free to use your drugs).

 

You know the answer to your question ... the fault is developers' and players are just "taking advantage" of the situation. I think that the bad situation is caused by the excessive overpower of drugs, which is something that do not depend upon you or any other player!

 

In your case (the reason why I mentioned you) we were previously talking about balance, with different positions. That is why I underlined unbalance in a battle where you were in, so you could "touch with hand" what I mean. I didn't mean to underline your position in the score, but the score itself. No mean of shaming anyone!

Also the image you posted, under my point of view, is a horrible unbalanced battle! 5 players in your team scored better than the best of the opponents. For me there is something wrong in that! Where they ghosts or mults? Or just overwhelmed by 4-5 "godmode_on" style typhoons devastating everything! Of course I didn't see it and I cannot say, but to get a 25:5 result there were 6 drunk enemies or 4 overdrugging team mates! But this is my opinion. To be honest I find also strange that you haven't been killed even once (in 30 min?), but again I cannot say anything on that, as I wasn't there!

[genak138 950]

One more proposal in regard to supplies used together.

Maybe the "power" of the supply is relative to the use of any other, in a way like smart cooldowns.

That is, a supply gives 100% its power when used alone

If another one is added , then they both give 75% of their power.

If a third is added, then all three fall to 50% of their power.

 

Same applies for repair kit in regard to other supplies.

If applied when one other supply is activated, it gives 100% restore of health.

If applied when two supplies are active, then it restores 75% of health.

If applied when all three are active, then it restores only 50% of health.

 

Thus, the more one uses supplies, the less strong they are.

That's actually a really good idea! Most of the cases I've seen where people are complaining about drugs being overpowered are actually when there's more than one supple being activated at once. I've never seen a complaint where only one was being used. This could provide some more tactical thinking i.e. "is it worth it to use this Nitro" when getting away with a flag while having a Double Armor.

[Pathfinder 1,690]

 

Hello Kirby2008

 

Maybe you didn't notice me, but I was in that battle and I made those stats after exiting, so I saw you and all the teams playing. To be honest you were not in a triple xmas tree, but you were in DD most of the time. I also told you "hello" when I entered, but maybe you didn't see it :)

 

I don't think that that score is a lot ... I think that the difference in score is too high. I think that a result 28:1 is an unbalance!

In the battle you shown I see a 2.100 XP vs a 400 XP on the top opponent and I see a 25:5 score. Not high, not low ... just incredibly unbalanced!!!

This is the point: balance!

 

You say me to compare your 2 pics to check drugs count. Maybe I missed something, but I see just 1 pic of you ... how can I compare? (even if that is not my interest, I mean you are free to use your drugs).

 

You know the answer to your question ... the fault is developers' and players are just "taking advantage" of the situation. I think that the bad situation is caused by the excessive overpower of drugs, which is something that do not depend upon you or any other player!

 

In your case (the reason why I mentioned you) we were previously talking about balance, with different positions. That is why I underlined unbalance in a battle where you were in, so you could "touch with hand" what I mean. I didn't mean to underline your position in the score, but the score itself. No mean of shaming anyone!

Also the image you posted, under my point of view, is a horrible unbalanced battle! 5 players in your team scored better than the best of the opponents. For me there is something wrong in that! Where they ghosts or mults? Or just overwhelmed by 4-5 "godmode_on" style typhoons devastating everything! Of course I didn't see it and I cannot say, but to get a 25:5 result there were 6 drunk enemies or 4 overdrugging team mates! But this is my opinion. To be honest I find also strange that you haven't been killed even once (in 30 min?), but again I cannot say anything on that, as I wasn't there!

 

I did remember seeing you in the game for about 2 minutes before leaving, I wouldn't say you managed to get a good picture of what was going on really, but whatever. The other team had joined much later than us of course, you should know that because you promptly left with the others.

 

Maybe you misread, but I said "If you have the full screenshot of the above photo you posted". You. Not me. I mean that picture above where you cropped just the statistics of that game. If you have the original pic, please do a drug count to compare, and you can see that drugs were not the reason why I get high scores.

 

Yep, that game I was simply lucky to have a team of isidas. And 186 kills in 30 minutes... 6 kills per minute isn't amazing considering I can 2/3 shot every enemy on their team. If I was indeed drugging, I would have done even better. One shot every 2.5 seconds, each dealing 200 damage points. I could have easily achieved a kill every 5 seconds, and reached a rate of 12 kills per minute. At least you admit you can't draw conclusions because you were not in the game.

 

About your balance point, i now have to completely disagree with your way of thought. How can you say the game is unbalanced based on one 29:1 game?

 

Firstly, I'm sorry, but in any game or sport, there are going to be close games, and there are going to be complete runaways. If I posted a game of an extremely close game, and there are a lot, would it be fine for me to just automatically conclude, with the same thought and logic as you, that the game is balanced? True, some "imbalance" is going to be there, as with any game that has in-game purchases. If they didn't give an advantage, no one would buy them.

 

Secondly, how can you possibly put a mismatched game down to drugs? Personally I feel insulted that you think I must be drugging to achieve my scores, I feel discredited. Ive been in plenty of "balanced" normal games, and plenty of "unbalanced" PRO battles. There are other factors such as equipment, and also skill.

 

But, as I have stressed before, I agree that the game is verging on being unbalanced, if not unbalanced already. Not because of drugs, but the fact that the benefits of drugs and buying gives too much of an advantage. Rusty nails idea ^ would get my support

[lukey0 27,543]

Brubook, build a bridge and get over it, drugging will never be removed. Just face it.

 

Also I agree with Kirby2008, a high score doesn't mean endless drugging. Some of us do own M4's and M3's are no match for them.

[RustyNail 1,538]

I thoroughly support this topic, up until the point when you try to "name and shame", especially since you weren't even in the game to be able to say whether I was actually drugging or not. A high score does not mean continuous drugging, don't jump to conclusions, just because you can't manage it yourself (not meant in an insulting way).

 

I attribute the above game to M4 Thunder against an ill prepared team.  If you think that score is a lot,

 

 

If you think I need drugs continuously to perform, how do you suppose I keep up my drug count? :P If you have the full screenshot of the above photo you posted, please do compare my drug count in each of these two pics, and then tell me I'm a chronic drugger! As I say, I have never bought crystals, or drugs.

 

I'd like to stress I do agree with this topic. Drugs are very strong. But really, is it the fault of the developers or the fault of the players here? Naming and shaming isn't a healthy thing, especially when something isn't true.

Naming players is not leading anywhere, ethically or practically. Sometimes though, out of sheer frustration a person could cross a line or two. I have done that myself too. I am sure that hurting individuals was not @Brubook intention.

It's the game mechanics that cause such problems. This topic is trying to make people (players and devs alike) understand that recent decisions regarding in-game power management are producing more issues than improvement. And here we also discuss possible solutions.

Peace.

[Brubook 1,161]

...

First of all, sorry for my rough quoting ... I am not good in that as most of you!

 

Maybe you misread, but I said "If you have the full screenshot of the above photo you posted". You. Not me. I mean that picture above where you cropped just the statistics of that game. If you have the original pic, please do a drug count to compare, and you can see that drugs were not the reason why I get high scores.

Uhm ... maybe I still don't get it. With a full screenshot I could compare my drug count, not yours. How can I see the drugs you used? Is there a way to count other players drugs? Sorry, but I still don't understand.

 

About your balance point, i now have to completely disagree with your way of thought. How can you say the game is unbalanced based on one 29:1 game?

Well ... this sound strange to me. I don't know how to explain it. It is like if I had to explain that water is wet. Really can't you see unbalance in a 29:1 result? English is not my mother language but I think that balance is something like "equilibrium" or "similarity of forces on the field" or ... I don't know how to describe it!

A definition could be: A state in which opposing forces or influences are equilibrated

Some synonims: parity, equity, equilibrium, evenness, symmetry, equipoise, correspondence, uniformity, equality, equivalence, similarity, levelness, parallelism, comparability

 

I agree with you that there are close games and there are runaways. The ones above are definitely runaways!

And yes, a close game is more keen to be defined as balanced.

 

Secondly, how can you possibly put a mismatched game down to drugs? Personally I feel insulted that you think I must be drugging to achieve my scores, I feel discredited. Ive been in plenty of "balanced" normal games, and plenty of "unbalanced" PRO battles. There are other factors such as equipment, and also skill.

A mismatched game is 90% of the times unbalanced. This happens in most of the battles I am in and the most scores and results I see.

There are some reasons for that: mults, great lack of skills or equipment compared to opponents, a starladder pro in the battle (I think they are at a quite different level to us human beings), and drugs. But I don't think that there are soo many mults, totally unskilled players, M1 on M3s fields or starladder pros around ... instead there are a lot of druggers around. Statistics!

 

Anyway, following Tanki position, why should you feel discredited if "accused" to use drugs? If you feel discredited it means that you know that drugs give players a huge help (a kind of unfair help), i.e. they don't need to be skilled to score or win. So you admit that a drugged player is soo overpowered that he doesn't need skills to win. So you feel discredited because you believe that you scored for your skills and not for drugs, so you admit that drugs actually can substitute skills and make score anyway!

This was nothing against you personally, it is just a common thought, that confirms me the disaster drugs are making! Please do not think I accused you to drug or stated you are not skilled, because this is not the case, ok? Just to point it out!

 

 

Finally, this is the slight thought difference between you and me:

 

You: But, as I have stressed before, I agree that the game is verging on being unbalanced, if not unbalanced already. Not because of drugs, but the fact that the benefits of drugs and buying gives too much of an advantage. Rusty nails idea ^ would get my support 

 

Me: The game is dramatically umbalanced right now. Drugs are important and they have to stay in the game, but their overpower has to be lowered a hell of a lot, and ruled! I also agree with Rusty ideas, or on some side effect in general, when using drugs.

 

So, you see that, in principles, we are not soo far away! I also saw you are a good person, so I appreciate your contributions and opinions here anyway.

[Brubook 1,161]

Brubook, build a bridge and get over it, drugging will never be removed. Just face it.

 

Also I agree with Kirby2008, a high score doesn't mean endless drugging. Some of us do own M4's and M3's are no match for them.

No comment on the first sentence.

 

On equipment you are partially right! It is true that it is no comparison between M3 and M4, yet a 29:1 result can come out from a full team of M4 vs a full team of M3, which is not a common case. So you can see that there must be something else giving that unbalance ... i.e. drugs (M7 power pills!!)

 

And this is why I disagree (and I made a post about) with earlier equipment availability ... just for the sake of money!

 

Regular equipment is somehow balanced and battles were fair. Allowing kits with equipment you can have only 3-4 ranks higher gave a bad unbalance to the game! Ruined all the devs study and design, just to drain and earn as much as possible, regardless the gameplay!

 

But this is another topic

[bravo30 136]

dear ladies and ladas!!

 

people were complaining about druggers before smart cool downs, tanki Nerfed them hugely and players are still complaining . man is never happy with something until it is gone

[Chameleos 157]

On equipment you are partially right! It is true that it is no comparison between M3 and M4, yet a 29:1 result can come out from a full team of M4 vs a full team of M3, which is not a common case. So you can see that there must be something else giving that unbalance ... i.e. drugs (M7 power pills!!)

Well, if you want an example, most of the Jackhammer kit users, also have hammer with 115 damage (3 hit on 300+ hp titan (yes,i managed to face one without DP)) maybe it's not as uncommon as one can think..

[RustyNail 1,538]

dear ladies and ladas!!

 

people were complaining about druggers before smart cool downs, tanki Nerfed them hugely and players are still complaining . man is never happy with something until it is gone

 

Maybe it's time for some real thoughts and not just superficial repetitions of nonsense.

 

Let's compare the situation before SCD and after SCD.

 

Before RUSTY BARELLS II (that's the true moment of change) most players did not use supplies except from special occasions, i.e. around the flag or when the difference in score became a problem. CTF battles were evolving without many supplies involved.

Druggers before the SCD were few, basically using all three power ups when attacking.

 

Then came the RUSTY BARRELS II, the "mistake" of giving away tons of supplies to all the players and then, all of a sudden more players appeared with two or three supplies on.

That was the beggining of complains for druggers.

 

Tanki's respond to the complains was SCD. Theoretically to prevent 2-3-4 phenomenon. Most players believed it.

One could immediately after SCD notice that while before, certain people only were on drugs, after, the situation changed. Most people had one or two active drugs.

 

That is, while before only a small percentage was using drugs as standard, afterwards, that percentage grew rapidly!

(why? it's obvious. Since SCD did not allow the activation of a supply for some seconds after another one was activated, most people activated one supply as precautionary measure even before they need it. Just so that if needed, a second one could be activated)

 

For a while, one could see that only rarely did a player have all three supplies activated, but most players did use - as a precaution - one or even two supplies. So, in reality, SCD increased the use of supplies. Some of us said it at that time, but who listened...

After a while, when drop points where located and filed by everybody, one could see all three supplies quite often, thus the new druggers complains started.

 

But now, it's not 3 supplies vs none, but 3 supplies vs 1 or 2. (that's a fact, not an opinion)

That is, for all that can afford to buy supplies kits.

(supplies kits are the other half of the story. Lots of supplies make the drug-frenzy reality and thus it is true that Tanki did aim in promoting the supplies use, even when hypocritically it said that SCD was for the common good and against druggers - what a bold lie!)

 

So, start to think for your self and stop eating without chewing what they serve you.

[r_priyangshu0 270]

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