Reduce power of garage supplies

[BSG-62 512]

The game started to go downhill after Vulcan was added. All the updates after that were released after that were mostly crap. 93% at least. Only the original Daily Mission update was any good.

[BSG-62 512]

Well, in the end, I can say I made it this far without paying.

Same.

[The-Operator219 1,929]

the link is not proper. it says error whenever i reach the site.

It was taken down, I have a new one that I can't find.

Sorry.

[The-Operator219 1,929]

As an experiment, I'm going to drug until I reach the next rank and compare it to my usual Isida powerleveling tactics.

[swede1 1,726]

And I have to disagree with you.

What you describe as way of acting has nothing to do with Yuna's company and other raiding teams I encounter.

There is no lopsided battle in which they join to "punish" the "OP side". They are the OP side. They join wherever they can, in normal battles from the beginning, and they start using full drugging while on the other hand they are skilled and trained to fight in full support of each other.

Should they act like you say, they should play prearranged battles against other teams / clans / companies. I don't know, they may even do it. But where I have seen them (and more than once, so that I memorized the names) was in normal battles where the only one OP drugging team was them.

So, what they do, simply is enter a battle and take advantage of their high level of co-operation (in regard to opponents' random teaming) and the unlimited drugs they use.

In a few minutes the opponent team gets deserted and only noobs and fools like me stay and fight.

In my eyes they are scums.

Where is she to come here and argue about my accusations? <_<

 

What you describe as the most exciting game you can be involved in, is practically an act of bullying. Think of that. I don't know how old you are, but I hope you are young. And that you don't understand yet.

I play every type of battle from pro XP, XP/BP, no supply with and without drops, DMs, CPs, TDMs, and all types of supply wars.

 

I was a buyer till they added vulcan and hammer. At that point a yr ago I was finally full M3 with all the Tier 3 paints up to and including Clay.

 

I win almost all the time, BUT, I don't play solo, I always log in and check if my friends list to see if enough friends online to work as a team.

 

I have built a large network of great players with good ethics, none of my friends approve of multing to win, they use thier skills to win.

 

I have a few rules I follow, 

 

I always buy a pro pass before anything else.

I only play supply battles if I have enough health kits for the battle. 2 for every 3 min of battle, so if the battle is 30 min long then I must have 20 health kits. I don't want to be the weak link on a team.

I generally try to save enough for the 100 of each supply kit to restock.

If I don't have enough crystals to buy supplies then I will only play pro battles.

 

I generally only play with friends, playing solo in team battles is almost always a losing proposition unless you enjoy clicking your brains out trying to get into the winning side  of an ongoing war and then you are subject to getting mults and saboteurs infiltrating the game.

 

XP and XP/BP battles are safer to join as solo player because they tend to be honorable players more often than not, and abide by the unwritten code of fair play.

 

THE PRO CODE ( only start when both teams are even, stop play if: player lags out, leaves, or is paused, the true players will even stop if the other team reports a mult, if he/she doesn't leave then everyone just leaves the battle and creates another.)

 

The problem is one of economics, free users must save for equipment to keep up with modifications of their rank and cannot afford to stock supplies.

 

When I was a low rank, I despised the drugger, and almost quit the game, then I found the forum and joined a team and played mostly in organised battles where players used the honor system not to use supplies, back then pro battles were very rare and not worth the 5k to purchase a pass.

 

I actually came up with the idea of supply cool downs back then and was told "that will never happen"

[BSG-62 512]

I think the cool-down times should be increased.

[The-Operator219 1,929]

I am now a full-on drugger, forgive me.

[Rohrmeister 1,535]

I.. [...]

Reading the way you play sounds very good and fair.

I have some questions left, because I think they lead to the core my core of this discussion (which is: enjoyment of the game for every participant):

 

Scenario:

you enter a normal battle (full supplies) that is like 4:2 flag at the time you join. You and your friends join the loosing side and start to battle.

 

1) you face an enemy team that does just a little drugging by themselfes; and they are _very_ skilled. So you and your friends have a hard time to turn the tides of war. So:

- will you start to drug more and more until you manage to beat them?

- Or will you try to keep your drug usage approximately at their level as well, and so try to win by your skill?

 

2) You face and enemy that can be beaten but it looks really close and you are not sure about it. You use drugs (as allowed in the battle) and 3 of the 6 guys from the enemy team ask you to stop drugging as they would like to continue a non-drug battle like they did the past 10 minutes before you joined. What will you and your friends do?

 

3) If you - however - turn the match from 4:2 (you loose) towards 5:9 (you not only win, but you clearly dominate), will you then take the pressure out of the game and let them enjoy the battle as well, or will you continue to dominate just for the sake of it?

 

cya, Rohr'

[swede1 1,726]

Reading the way you play sounds very good and fair.

I have some questions left, because I think they lead to the core my core of this discussion (which is: enjoyment of the game for every participant):

 

Scenario:

you enter a normal battle (full supplies) that is like 4:2 flag at the time you join. You and your friends join the loosing side and start to battle.

 

1) you face an enemy team that does just a little drugging by themselves; and they are _very_ skilled. So you and your friends have a hard time to turn the tides of war. So:

- will you start to drug more and more until you manage to beat them?

- Or will you try to keep your drug usage approximately at their level as well, and so try to win by your skill?

 

2) You face and enemy that can be beaten but it looks really close and you are not sure about it. You use drugs (as allowed in the battle) and 3 of the 6 guys from the enemy team ask you to stop drugging as they would like to continue a non-drug battle like they did the past 10 minutes before you joined. What will you and your friends do?

 

3) If you - however - turn the match from 4:2 (you loose) towards 5:9 (you not only win, but you clearly dominate), will you then take the pressure out of the game and let them enjoy the battle as well, or will you continue to dominate just for the sake of it?

 

cya, Rohr'

I don't understand why players who wish not to use supplies, or do not have supplies to use, enter full supply battles in the first place, there is a create button with many options in creating battles, or at least check battle perimeters before joining.

 

You are talking about Generalissimo battles, they are the hardest battles in the game, supply use is only a small piece of the equation, picking up drops, switching up your turrets and hulls to keep superiority, as well as switching up paints to protect against opponents turrets is equally important.

Everyone plays to win, score and D/L are also a key component and affect your share of the battle fund.

What you are saying is kind of like saying a player that doesn't have Vulcan protection and asks other team not to use Vulcan in the battle.

 

No one likes pressing 1234 even if you have 1000s of supplies available, believe me, it has a cost and no one likes to spend, you use them when you need them, if you are clearly playing players who have run out of supplies, or just plain given up, there is no need to use them, I will however pick up drops whenever they are available.

 

I've been in many battle where teams have just run, or give up.

Generally I just park and chat with a few players and let the others battle till the battle ends unless some guys are trying to steal my position at fund.

[RustyNail 1,538]

I don't understand why players who wish not to use supplies, or do not have supplies to use, enter full supply battles in the first place, there is a create button with many options in creating battles, or at least check battle perimeters before joining.

 

You are talking about Generalissimo battles, they are the hardest battles in the game, supply use is only a small piece of the equation, picking up drops, switching up your turrets and hulls to keep superiority, as well as switching up paints to protect against opponents turrets is equally important.

Everyone plays to win, score and D/L are also a key component and affect your share of the battle fund.

What you are saying is kind of like saying a player that doesn't have Vulcan protection and asks other team not to use Vulcan in the battle.

 

No one likes pressing 1234 even if you have 1000s of supplies available, believe me, it has a cost and no one likes to spend, you use them when you need them, if you are clearly playing players who have run out of supplies, or just plain given up, there is no need to use them, I will however pick up drops whenever they are available.

 

I've been in many battle where teams have just run, or give up.

Generally I just park and chat with a few players and let the others battle till the battle ends unless some guys are trying to steal my position at fund.

I am willing to bet that half - at least - the players I disagree with (you being one of them) , it's because of experiencing different things and not because we see things differently. We are in different positions, so to speak.

Let me try and point the differences between you seem to experience and what I experience.

 

You say why don't we avoid full supply battles by creating a pro battles without supplies or drops only.

Well, if we want to be exact, full supplies battles are Pro battles without SCD. The battles you refer to are standard battles. True, typically after the SCD one is free to use a supply but in addition to one or two drops, that valids as full supplies, beating the point of SCD. Through Administration's promotion (of supplies) you surely agree that overuse of supplies in standard battles are easy as breathing.

What in reality would be proper full supplies battles makes sense only in regard to Pro-non-SCD-battles. Both economically and logically.

But, nevertheless, why don't we create Pro battles without supplies, you ask. The answer is easy. Because such battles don't exist. If we create one, we are doomed in wandering in an empty map for 5, 10, or even 15 minutes before someone joins, and most of the times leaving soon after.

A minimum "density" is required so that the battle is viable. Such a density does not exist.

Most Pro battles - as we often say - are XP/BP or full supplies battles.

So, most of us, players are "doomed" to join some standard battle and pray that no drugger appears and ruins the battle.

Furthermore, you are speaking of Generallisimos battles that apart from supplies one has to face M3+ tanks and a variety of top paints.

Because of this, having to face also constant use of supplies is too much.

That's our position. And by "our" I mean the second to fourth ranks.

The truth is that at my rank 9 out of 10 available battles are Gssimos battles.

One can't really escape them. And being a non buyer, one can't secure crystals for top paints and supplies and MUs to M4... Non buyers are starving from the rank of general and above (although it seems to me that even a Captain faces some pretty tough choices)...

 

Now let me reverse some questions to prove that Tanki consciously aims this situation because thus top buyers have plenty of non buyers to play with, or as I like to use a metafor, the whales are been fed.

1. Why Tanki doesn't lessen the default range of ranks so that Gssimos can't play with 5 ranks below?

2. Why Tanki doesn't discern the new Gssimos from the old ones, (say up to 2.000.000 points are new and after that old) so that they can play only with their own rank and not with marshals or commanders? How can a commander of 1.300.000 xp compete in garage with a Gssimo of 2.500.000 xp?

3. Why Tanki doesn't make Pro pass cheaper for low ranks (which would resulted in more Pro passes, that is more crystals spend from players) so that pro battles become more popular from middle ranks and thus offer the required "density" for drops-only battles?

 

The answer is obvious. Because Tanki, unlike what it claims about being a free to play game, enforces to higher ranks a dilemma: pay or leave.

[swede1 1,726]

I am willing to bet that half - at least - the players I disagree with (you being one of them) , it's because of experiencing different things and not because we see things differently. We are in different positions, so to speak.

Let me try and point the differences between you seem to experience and what I experience.

 

You say why don't we avoid full supply battles by creating a pro battles without supplies or drops only.

Well, if we want to be exact, full supplies battles are Pro battles without SCD. The battles you refer to are standard battles. True, typically after the SCD one is free to use a supply but in addition to one or two drops, that valids as full supplies, beating the point of SCD. Through Administration's promotion (of supplies) you surely agree that overuse of supplies in standard battles are easy as breathing.

What in reality would be proper full supplies battles makes sense only in regard to Pro-non-SCD-battles. Both economically and logically.

But, nevertheless, why don't we create Pro battles without supplies, you ask. The answer is easy. Because such battles don't exist. If we create one, we are doomed in wandering in an empty map for 5, 10, or even 15 minutes before someone joins, and most of the times leaving soon after.

A minimum "density" is required so that the battle is viable. Such a density does not exist.

Most Pro battles - as we often say - are XP/BP or full supplies battles.

So, most of us, players are "doomed" to join some standard battle and pray that no drugger appears and ruins the battle.

Furthermore, you are speaking of Generallisimos battles that apart from supplies one has to face M3+ tanks and a variety of top paints.

Because of this, having to face also constant use of supplies is too much.

That's our position. And by "our" I mean the second to fourth ranks.

The truth is that at my rank 9 out of 10 available battles are Gssimos battles.

One can't really escape them. And being a non buyer, one can't secure crystals for top paints and supplies and MUs to M4... Non buyers are starving from the rank of general and above (although it seems to me that even a Captain faces some pretty tough choices)...

 

Now let me reverse some questions to prove that Tanki consciously aims this situation because thus top buyers have plenty of non buyers to play with, or as I like to use a metafor, the whales are been fed.

1. Why Tanki doesn't lessen the default range of ranks so that Gssimos can't play with 5 ranks below?

2. Why Tanki doesn't discern the new Gssimos from the old ones, (say up to 2.000.000 points are new and after that old) so that they can play only with their own rank and not with marshals or commanders? How can a commander of 1.300.000 xp compete in garage with a Gssimo of 2.500.000 xp?

3. Why Tanki doesn't make Pro pass cheaper for low ranks (which would resulted in more Pro passes, that is more crystals spend from players) so that pro battles become more popular from middle ranks and thus offer the required "density" for drops-only battles?

 

The answer is obvious. Because Tanki, unlike what it claims about being a free to play game, enforces to higher ranks a dilemma: pay or leave.

This is not a question of Supply use in battles.

It is all about the monetization  principles Tanki opted to build their game around.

A quote that I read that really echos the way Tanki has handled its game.

Quote by Stepan Zotov

"- Temper your aggression in monetizing the users — ruthless monetization policies put gamers into unequal state when those who pay own the world. What is so bad about it? Well, the aggressively monetizing game quickly burns out and it is really hard to reanimate it because of the existing reputation. It can happen so fast that the game won’t even turn into a profitable business. In Russia hucksters are traditionally despised and hardly anybody wants to have such a mark on him. Once again — F2P monetization is about delicate balance."  

Tanki has and continues to be ruthless in monetization policies!

I have written many articles that touch on that subject

http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=276735

http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=276296&page=44&do=findComment&comment=4868032

http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=270527&page=13&do=findComment&comment=4779235

http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=266943&do=findComment&comment=4750199

http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=266943&do=findComment&comment=4748505

[Ordinary_Blood 66]

Not only securing top paints, but the cost of MUing them is huge.

[epanastasi1821 80]

Druggers can be a right royal pain in the backside. However I buy the pro battle pass and the problem is nullified, except we have to do ordinary battles at times for these ridiculous and underpaid daily missions.I have over 10,000 supplies cus I only use them when others do.

[Rohrmeister 1,535]

What you are saying is kind of like saying a player that doesn't have Vulcan protection and asks other team not to use Vulcan in the battle.

I asked you some very specific questions and you worked yourself around each and every one of it. May I ask you again to answer them.. or do you preffer to not to answer them (which would be also fine; just tell so) ?

 

cya, Rohr

[Leekh_A.forever 83]

Guys Drugs isn't that expensive. With a total of 105 000 crystals , you could buy 1200 drugs each. 

I met alot of druggers so no choice , I would buy it with M3 smoky, Make sure the druggers Cry.

 

 

Buying drugs kits : Each duoble damage supply - 12.5 crystal
Each repait kit - 37.5 crystal. Use it wisely anyway

 

[RustyNail 1,538]

Guys Drugs isn't that expensive. With a total of 105 000 crystals , you could buy 1200 drugs each. 

I met alot of druggers so no choice , I would buy it with M3 smoky, Make sure the druggers Cry.

 

 

Buying drugs kits : Each duoble damage supply - 12.5 crystal

Each repait kit - 37.5 crystal. Use it wisely anyway

 

Supplies is a rip off! Every supplies kit one buys, reduces the value of crystals earned through them. It takes a sucker or a rich man to ignore this. But to most of the players a standard fee on supplies is not affordable.

Beside that, constant use of supplies from everyone equals to no supplies at all.

Reason and economy are against drugging. Rare use of supplies is the best, the fittest way to enjoy Tanki.

[swede1 1,726]

I asked you some very specific questions and you worked yourself around each and every one of it. May I ask you again to answer them.. or do you preffer to not to answer them (which would be also fine; just tell so) ?

 

cya, Rohr

Scenario:

you enter a normal battle (full supplies) that is like 4:2 flag at the time you join. You and your friends join the loosing side and start to battle.

Most battles we join are 20 flags and score is split more like 2-14 when it opens up, but anyways...

 

1) you face an enemy team that does just a little drugging by themselfes; and they are _very_ skilled. So you and your friends have a hard time to turn the tides of war. So:

- will you start to drug more and more until you manage to beat them?

- Or will you try to keep your drug usage approximately at their level as well, and so try to win by your skill?

There is no such thing as moderate  drugging, you either drug or you don't drug  

 

2) You face and enemy that can be beaten but it looks really close and you are not sure about it. You use drugs (as allowed in the battle) and 3 of the 6 guys from the enemy team ask you to stop drugging as they would like to continue a non-drug battle like they did the past 10 minutes before you joined. What will you and your friends do? Lol, this isn't a peacekeeping mission, it's War.

 

3) If you - however - turn the match from 4:2 (you loose) towards 5:9 (you not only win, but you clearly dominate), will you then take the pressure out of the game and let them enjoy the battle as well, or will you continue to dominate just for the sake of it?

As I said before,if they have given up, I personally will park and chat, unless someone is trying to steal my position in score.

 

Most players don't know how to read a battle, they just look at map and an opening to join.

There are a lot of lost cause battles out there where teams have stacked the deck, and you cant win.

There are also time limits that will make it impossible to win.

 

I give every game 110% to win, whether its a supply battle or not. Back when I was working on MUs, I could not afford to buy supplies so I wouldn't play supply battles. Sometimes I didn't even have enough for a pro pass.

I would enter DM battles to earn enough for the pass then play XP format battles for months just grinding for funds to cover MUs. Players who don't buy have to decide whats important for them, ie: save for equipment and upgrades or supplies.

 

Do I think the system is fair, HELL no. When I was a Warrant officer, I hated supply battles, and at that time there really wasn't a choice as pro battles were unheard of.

Pro passes are in the game to make lower ranks spend money on the game, plain and simple. Tanki wants players to spend game earnings on supplies and buy to get equipment, mission changes are as well.

[Rohrmeister 1,535]

Thanks for your answers. I was so curious as your writing makes you sound like someone that plays fair and thinks ahead.. and simultaneously you are a heavy drug user and raid party member. So I was curious to get some more information on how you rate different situations.

 

I enjoy this game very much and for me it does not feel like a war. It still feels like a game.

Don't get me wrong > like you I also give 110% in every battle. I love battles where we use simultaneous voice communication to coordinate the team better. I play to win. I play to turn battles if possible. I play to skill up as much as I can.

 

-> But I would regret every earned crystal and every moment of joy that I've earned if the price was to let others suffer.

 

Therefore I prevent domination (but I would have not much mercy in turning a 2-18 battle, as domination was already applied by the other team).

 

 

And I respect people, that enjoy drug free battles. They remind me of the times, when XP/BP was not an official format, but those players had to rely on the unwritten code of honor between XP/BP players. Like those XP/BP folks in the past, there are plenty of non-drug players around in tanki today, that like to play drug free battles. Sometimes they accept 1..2 druggers per team if the teams are still balanced. But that are the rules they like to play.. that are the things they ask for if they ask someone to stop drugging. And to those people druggers have the same effect as ruiners had in XP/BP mode.

 

Sure they could use pro pass. High ranked players do this - RU2 is each evening filled with non supply battles (for high ranks). But many players of the lower and intermediate ranks have no pro passes - for the very reasons you have explained so well in your own post.

 

ps: please don't get me wrong: I don't judge you. I don't say mindset A is better then mindset B. I just wanted to understand it better. So again - thanks for your answers.

[Ordinary_Blood 66]

@Swede1

 

I know this is rather off-topic, but how do you tell whether teams 'stack the deck' and impossible battles right off the bat?

 

Thanks!

[Cyborg 3,189]

There is no point of discussing abiut this. This is the current situation and this is gonna continue. The sad reality is. Kit buyers and drugger' win and skilled non buyers don't stand a chance. When premium account's are released, its sure that we non druggers will have 0 kills and 100 death's . Wake up devs, not whining just talkin about the current scenario. For eg. Today me and 3 friends of mine entered a polygon CP score was 100 - 23 ( we winning) and suddenly a redneck kit and guardian kit joined started drugging the battle ends score becomes 134 - 246. Ain't that discouraging ??

[Lyzard23 12]

Hello Tankers,

There was once this guy and I have encountered him in one or two battles. He bought the "Cupid" kit. If you don't know what the kit is it goes something like this: M1 Hunter, M1 Freeze and the "In Love" paint. He was all about capturing flags. He drugged so badly and at times there would be a load of player around him, just trying to destroy him. I set up like two mines in a row for him and he just carried on. There were also these Isidas always surrounding him so that made it a lot more harder to destroy him. I myself use an Isida M1 so I could have been on his team but I decided to be on the losing team. Luckily, we eventually won the later battles.

[pwhite 120]

The entire ideas and suggestions sub forum should be renamed "The place where words disappear".

[swede1 1,726]

@Swede1

 

I know this is rather off-topic, but how do you tell whether teams 'stack the deck' and impossible battles right off the bat?

 

Thanks!

You can see it often when battles are just created, 2 or 3 will join one side, while another 1 or 2 join the other to get people to join it, then you will often see players joining and leaving quickly in order to stack the deck.

They also like to get their main saboteur to the top of the board early on so he gets the most of the losing sides fund, generally there is a good 100 point spread between 1st and the rest of the team, once he is assured of his position he just sits back and watches the carnage.

They are very efficient with an auto clicker.

Ongoing battles are easier to see when players scores are stagnant for long periods of time and everyone elses scores keep rising.

You also get to know the players nicks that sabotage and seeing several nicks that are just numbers, its a good indicator, as there are Mult lists out there for players to use for multing, so there are unlimited accounts they have access to till they get blocked, they just pick another one to use.

[Rohrmeister 1,535]

wow.. how do they create and raise their mults to usefull ranks?

[creeperskelly 1,281]

That's what I wonder - it takes a long time to rank, so, why raise a rank so high just to mult? What's the point of it?