Reduce power of garage supplies

[ELIZABETH1122 337]

That's most likely the exactly same reason, why mults and hackers are in the game.

 

(yes I know that overuse of supplies is leagal by rules, while multing is offically forbidden.

But there are for sure reasons, why tanki handles the mult problem as ineffective as they do today.

Most likely the've realised, that they _do_ earn money by mults:

- supply use of teammates goes up

- mult acounts need supplies to rank fast enough to a usable rank

- ..maybe more)

Every ordinary decent player pays for the crystal supply,  equipment and micro updates of the mult, the clan raider and any other organised group.  Not only that, they also have to double up on their own supplies and equipment advancement  in the vein hop that they will survive. Tanki benefits exponentially from this cycle.  They not only facilitate this, they encourage it.  They are not very likely to want to bite the hand that feeds them. 

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Your eager will to compare honest druggers with frustrated cheaters is irritating.

 

 

 

 

 

I just compare their motivation.

And don't worry, I do not confuse druggers with hackers (nor with mults btw).

 

I kindly ask you to take away a little from the time you spend on creating memes, and reassign it to think about the originating statements and your planned replies ;)  (please take no offense, I'm just kidding a little :P :P - if you don't share this kind of humor give me a hint ;) ;) )

 

Comparing their motivation is a valid thing to do, because:

- if a decent low/non-drugger battle is spoiled by a single drug-overuser (happens often)

- and if this drugger is asked to stop drugging (yes, I do ask them politely)

- then the druggers motivation to keep him going is obviously the same reason why a mult-user keeps going.

>>> Want's to win (or another one: enjoys overpower and brag with a 50-4 K/D rate .. multiple users may have multiple motivations)

 

So the drugger in the example above keeps ignoring the polite request from the other players that share the battle with him, that have been there long before, and that enjoy the way they play. (please note, that I do not talk about joining a battle where more then 40% of the palyers drug.. there such a question would be pretty invalid).

 

 

So AlphaNinjaGirl raised a very valid point, as she asked why so many druggers keep overpowering, while they complain if someone else uses a mult (if I got her right).

In fact I would assume, druggers shoudl highly understand and maybe respect the basic motivation of a mults or a hackers, their core concern that leads to their behaviour... they just wanna win !

 

;)

 

This does not make multing a good thing..  but maybe leads to some thinking in drug-overusers.

 

 

 

ps:

If you now raise the valid point that the difference between drugs and mults is, that drugs are legal by the game rules, -> then please consider, that this whole thread was about to discuss and change those rules (before it started to get emotional..).

The target was to find and discuss ideas, in order to archieve a more balanced gameplay, and more fun for all.

People spend money where they have fun.. and they leave where they get frustrated.

 

 

[deadmanrising 715]

That's most likely the exactly same reason, why mults and hackers are in the game.

 

Um, no... People teaming up and choosing to drug has nothing to do with people teaming up to mult, what would they gain? They would still be banned

[AlphaNinjaGirl 537]

AlphaNinjaGirl,

If you come up against a M1 Fire Bird sitting a top of an M1 Wasp and your opponent proclaims, I have no protective paint.  Or it is clear that your opponent does not have protective paint.  Do you then go back to your garage and remove your Storm Paint which can have protection against Fire Bird of  between 20% and 30%  for a non protective paint?

Well, if it's a 1v1, then yes... I'd try to make the battle as fair and balanced as possible. I know that's never gonna happen because of the ridiculous amounts of micro-upgrades I have, but I'd take off my protective paint when I'm versing a person with the same combo who doesn't have one.

 

If it's a team battle though, that's a different story. Yes, I know "imbalance is built into the game", but like I've said before, there are people who acknowledge this imbalance, and there are people who abuse it. Abusing a game mechanic to raise your ego, K/D ratio, popularity, whatever, is pretty selfish, don't you think?

 

You complain a lot about the current gameplay and beg Tanki to give in to your desires although you admitted you will never support the game financially.

First off, I acknowledge how stupid it is for me to reply to you, since I pretty much know your reply is going to be you spouting one of five one-liners back in my face, but... y'know what, whatever.

 

So yes, the game was designed to be imbalanced towards free-to-players. That's simply a fact that we have to accept. The thing that I think most of us are upset about is the amount of imbalance -- it's overwhelming to a ridiculous amount and makes free-to-play synonymous with "non-competitive".

 

As I've stated before, I'm not against all forms of drugging. I'm against the people who abuse the game mechanic because they either a] think it's fun making people angry just to satisfy their own ego, or b] can't actually play the game correctly and use drugs to compensate for their lack of skill (or something else).

 

You will never compete against smart OR noob druggers until you invest in Tanki or save crystals earned for free to buy drug kits.

From this statement, I take it you acknowledge exactly how overpowered druggers are -- unless I buy drugs, I can't hope to compete. You realize this is an abused game mechanic, yet since you're drunk in the power it gives you (or high on actual drugs), you want to keep it. Probably the former.

 

It's an example of the old adage "absolute power corrupts absolutely."

[AlphaNinjaGirl 537]

1. This is an ridiculous statement. When one player has fun pushing his teammates off the edge or blocking the flag carrier, do you really think drugs may be useful in any way to compensate the nuisance caused by the saboteur? Come on............

Like I've stated before, I don't know how often this happens, so I can't really say. But from my personal experience, it only happens a couple times, and on a few select maps (Monte Carlo, to be exact).

 

Here's an interesting question -- what if the people who inject mults onto your team are just doing so to counter the overpowered-ness of your drugging? O.o

 

2. I guess you must be talking about that tomato and his badass gang, right?

Not really. There are a lot of gangs (even at lower ranks) who do this. I wasn't talking specifically about you, no need to feel special.

 

We didn't come here to complain about sabotage issues

Really? 'Cuz, that's almost all you've done here -- talk about how "mults are the devil" and call anyone who doesn't like drugs a jabroni, without bringing up any actual arguments to justify your abuse of drugs, other than "mults mults mults mults mults!"

 

The main difference between imbalance caused by drug use and saboteurs is... that one is legal while the other isn't.

So, let's put this into perspective: If use of biological weapons was illegal, but use of nuclear weapons was legal... are you just gonna go around nuking everyone? Both are extremely dangerous and deadly -- just like both multing and drugging in the game are overpowered (the latter more overpowered in my opinion than the former) -- and at that point "legality" doesn't matter.

 

Like I said, what if the people who are multing are purposely doing so to counter your drugging? That would actually make a lot of sense... >.>

[ELIZABETH1122 337]

Well, if it's a 1v1, then yes... I'd try to make the battle as fair and balanced as possible. I know that's never gonna happen because of the ridiculous amounts of micro-upgrades I have, but I'd take off my protective paint when I'm versing a person with the same combo who doesn't have one.

 

If it's a team battle though, that's a different story. Yes, I know "imbalance is built into the game", but like I've said before, there are people who acknowledge this imbalance, and there are people who abuse it. Abusing a game mechanic to raise your ego, K/D ratio, popularity, whatever, is pretty selfish, don't you think?

 

First off, I acknowledge how stupid it is for me to reply to you, since I pretty much know your reply is going to be you spouting one of five one-liners back in my face, but... y'know what, whatever.

 

So yes, the game was designed to be imbalanced towards free-to-players. That's simply a fact that we have to accept. The thing that I think most of us are upset about is the amount of imbalance -- it's overwhelming to a ridiculous amount and makes free-to-play synonymous with "non-competitive".

 

As I've stated before, I'm not against all forms of drugging. I'm against the people who abuse the game mechanic because they either a] think it's fun making people angry just to satisfy their own ego, or b] can't actually play the game correctly and use drugs to compensate for their lack of skill (or something else).

 

From this statement, I take it you acknowledge exactly how overpowered druggers are -- unless I buy drugs, I can't hope to compete. You realize this is an abused game mechanic, yet since you're drunk in the power it gives you (or high on actual drugs), you want to keep it. Probably the former.

 

It's an example of the old adage "absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Well, you sound a very fair minded person so I could not hold hypocrisy against you, from that perspective.  I would not do that.  I normally try to play to my strengths but often will continue with the wrong paint if I am doing OK.  I would not change down however.  If i was being slaughtered then my thoughts might be, I am in the wrong game for me. I buy supplies as a large package often when buying equipment.  I use them.  I occasionally use them against much weaker opponents if their are more of them.  I play to win and will not fight with one hand tied behind my back.  Perhaps ego plays some part with some people.  Certainly loosing allot does but I am pragmatic and accept that equipment deficiencies or advantages may assist greatly in what ever happens so I am impervious to a large extent to a swelling head or a red face.  I play some games and have win after win for quite a few games, then someone will; come along to spoil things by denting my score or defeating me.  I try to reflect on what has happened, was it me, the equipment or what perhaps a bit of bad luck.  I equally reflect on good games and might think, that was fortunate or lucky or congratulate myself on perception.  It all depends.  I do not think it selfish of me to win.  It is not my problem that some one refuses to buy or use drug/supplies.  If it is for ethical reasons then they will have to suffer for their belief and if broke I ask other questions

 

I can see from your kit that you do not spend a lot and perhaps things might be hard being disciplined to eventually buy what you want.  I do understand that when Tanks come along all kitted out in the best paints and or drugs as well, that fighting lie might be difficult.  However as I and a few other have said their are ways to have drug free battles but very few of those who complain want to use them.  The majority just do not want to spend crystals on that or real cash.  They want other more exotic permanent things.  You chose MU and a particular paint perhaps other choose an other way. 

 

Why do you not use a pro pass or alternative premium.

 

You talk about imbalance but the whole game is designed around imbalance and the path that one takes to overcome them.  I do not see drug/supply being any more of an imbalance than anything else on tanki. I have paints that have 50% protection against some things and others that have less but a bigger spread of defenses.  That equates to double armor against those specific turrets.  yet the paint will last until I change and will always be in my kit somewhere.  Supplies last less than a minute.

 

Use a pass or buy supplies, use them when they come or have a pass.  Tanki should do bigger discounts on passes for bulk buyers.  I will support any campaign to have a bigger variety of passes that offer better economy.  It should be possible to buy passes with crystals or money that last 1 month, 3 months 6 months or a year with suitable discount.  However tanki will not like to loose money so it would have to be sensible.  Why not start a campaign for that.  More people will join you and you never know you may have quite a few druggy converts. :)

 

.

[basenji7 1,199]

If you don't like druggers can't you just get a pro pass? Especially at high ranks 5k for a month is almost nothing and you would probably earn 5k+ more crystals...

Can someone give a good argument against this? I don't drug and I don't particularly like people who do, but I feel that the pro pass is a solution to this problem...

[The-Operator219 1,929]

If you don't like druggers can't you just get a pro pass? Especially at high ranks 5k for a month is almost nothing and you would probably earn 5k+ more crystals...

Can someone give a good argument against this? I don't drug and I don't particularly like people who do, but I feel that the pro pass is a solution to this problem...

 http://en.tankiforum...71?do=findComment&comment=4714520

[basenji7 1,199]

1.03 Tanki has become too expensive for non buyers or even small buyers to be able to get upgrades in tanks / paints or Pro pass, AND supplies for frequent use.

This is the only argument against pro passes that I see...But you don't need to buy supplies to use in no-supply pro battles and again, 5000 crystals really isn't that much even at my low rank - I earn a lot more than that every month and before this rank I didn't see very many druggers and even now there aren't that many druggers. 

I understand that it is different for high-ranked players, but again, 5k crystals for a high-ranker isn't a disproportionately large amount of crystals by any means

[asmit00_GTO 2]

i just hate the drugged railers and thunders............at my rank railers and thunderers are on drugs like always........killed in one shot........wth.....now one more wth weopon was introduced few days back............the hammer...........facing m3 hammer

 

You can always make use of

1. Long ranged weapons.

2. Hammer protection paint.

3. Double armour.

 

 

i just hate the drugged railers and thunders............at my rank railers and thunderers are on drugs like always........killed in one shot........wth.....now one more wth weopon was introduced few days back............the hammer...........facing m3 hammer is very difficult................and when i see drugged hammer.........its like..........oh God wth........... just drugged hammer's two shots to kill my viki 3.5 ...........sorry not two shots even double powered 1.5 shots of hammer is enough to kill my viki 3.5.......wow.... :blink:

OMG how did u miss these isidas with double damage  at close range. They are just simply impossible to kill

 

[The-Operator219 1,929]

1.03 Tanki has become too expensive for non buyers or even small buyers to be able to get upgrades in tanks / paints or Pro pass, AND supplies for frequent use.

This is the only argument against pro passes that I see...But you don't need to buy supplies to use in no-supply pro battles and again, 5000 crystals really isn't that much even at my low rank - I earn a lot more than that every month and before this rank I didn't see very many druggers and even now there aren't that many druggers. 

I understand that it is different for high-ranked players, but again, 5k crystals for a high-ranker isn't a disproportionately large amount of crystals by any means

Buy a PRO battle pass on this account and try finding good battles. Go on, do it. I'll wait.

Parkour and XP battles do not count.

[bossman161 276]

Kind of off topic, but don't you guys think we should be able to see the health bar of the enemy team?

[deadmanrising 715]

Kind of off topic, but don't you guys think we should be able to see the health bar of the enemy team?

That would make the game less fun wouldn't it?

[bossman161 276]

That would make the game less fun wouldn't it?

Nah, we would be able to know if our weapons were working against a drugger or not.

[ELIZABETH1122 337]

If you have enough experience it is easy to tell when someone is gasping their last.  No need for fancy gadgets and fury dice.

[AlphaNinjaGirl 537]

@ELIZABETH1122

 

While your post probably deserves a full reply, it's not very coherent, so I couldn't understand most of it. As such, I'll only be replying to some bits and pieces that I think comprise the bulk of your message.

 

Why do you not use a pro pass

 

Use a pass or buy supplies, use them when they come or have a pass.

I actually do use a PRO pass, but at this rank (and from what I take it, at several ranks) there are so few PRO battles that I can't ever find one that suits me (I even started playing XP/BP just to play without drugs, and still made this conclusion). And when I make one that suits me, nobody joins because it's not on a map that falls under the category of standard PRO battle maps.

 

If Tanki pushed to promote more PRO battles, I'd probably be less upset about druggers.

 

I do not think it selfish of me to win.  It is not my problem that some one refuses to buy or use drug/supplies.

Well that's a difference of opinion. Being a former drugger myself, I honestly felt rather cheap getting kill after kill without using any actual skill -- just pressing the magic combo turned me into an unstoppable hulk. Personally I think that's beyond unfair -- it's game-breaking and easy to abuse -- but that's just my opinion, and I can respect yours.

 

They want other more exotic permanent things.  You chose MU and a particular paint perhaps other choose an other way. 

So... are you saying the reason I'm not a drugger is because I spent all my crystals on MU's and paints?...

 

That's highly untrue. In fact, I have quite a few drugs at my disposal (due to the daily mission chain update). I simply choose not to use them because I don't want to abuse a broken game mechanic. If you do, that's fine... just stay away from me please. :P

[orbanbotond 407]

WHat??

[ELIZABETH1122 337]

@ELIZABETH1122

 

While your post probably deserves a full reply, it's not very coherent, so I couldn't understand most of it. As such, I'll only be replying to some bits and pieces that I think comprise the bulk of your message.

 

I actually do use a PRO pass, but at this rank (and from what I take it, at several ranks) there are so few PRO battles that I can't ever find one that suits me (I even started playing XP/BP just to play without drugs, and still made this conclusion). And when I make one that suits me, nobody joins because it's not on a map that falls under the category of standard PRO battle maps.

 

If Tanki pushed to promote more PRO battles, I'd probably be less upset about druggers.

 

Well that's a difference of opinion. Being a former drugger myself, I honestly felt rather cheap getting kill after kill without using any actual skill -- just pressing the magic combo turned me into an unstoppable hulk. Personally I think that's beyond unfair -- it's game-breaking and easy to abuse -- but that's just my opinion, and I can respect yours.

 

So... are you saying the reason I'm not a drugger is because I spent all my crystals on MU's and paints?...

 

That's highly untrue. In fact, I have quite a few drugs at my disposal (due to the daily mission chain update). I simply choose not to use them because I don't want to abuse a broken game mechanic. If you do, that's fine... just stay away from me please. :P

     AlphaNinjaGirl

 

You will have to just live and die by your own conscience as the rest of us do.  I have no intention off following yours.  To suggest that using supplies/drugs equates to a lack of skill, is game breaking or abusive in any way is preposterous to me. I have no intention of seeking you out, rest assured but i wont miss a game just because you are playing in it.  If people choose not to use what is available to them, that is for them, I will happily use them and without my conscience affecting me in the least.  

 

I find it staggering that those who claim to detest supplies/drugs refusing to use the facilities available to them that of PRO Passes.  Instead they sit and play in the normal part of the game where supplies/drugs are the accepted norm and preach to those who do use them legally.  

[viratno2 146]

^^^^^^^

About that PRO pass situation: 

A PRO pass is a needless investment for lower ranks, just try to find battles other than XP/BP and Parkour battles. Plus, 5k is rather expensive for low ranks. Heck, they would rather invest it in a m1 or something. Leaving PRO pass, what other facilities do non druggers have for playing a no drugs battle? The only other things are normal battles, which, most of the time are usually over run by kit buyers and druggers. 

[A_R_A_K_E_L_Y_E_N 503]

^^^^^^^

About that PRO pass situation: 

A PRO pass is a needless investment for lower ranks, just try to find battles other than XP/BP and Parkour battles. Plus, 5k is rather expensive for low ranks. Heck, they would rather invest it in a m1 or something. Leaving PRO pass, what other facilities do non druggers have for playing a no drugs battle? The only other things are normal battles, which, most of the time are usually over run by kit buyers and druggers.

 

Thats not our problem......

and that just shows most tankers are druggers

[asifmehmood 1,576]

This is damn awesome topic!

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

so.... my answer just got lost, and I've to type a new one.
 
Your answer is full of wrong assumptions concerning me, my thinking and my actions - I've counted six of them.

But after I lost my last answer, I feel there is no point in repeating it.

There is not much of a point

- it is pretty nasty to raise something in a discussion

- and then read answers that reflect something totally different and are full of wrong assumptions

 

---

 

Your so called "facts" about game design are just a list of things that often happen to be. And that are mainly the reason why so many f2p games kill their own user group.

they do it because it's easy and works in first instance.. while at the same point it is a reason why so many games go down the pipe so fast. Your "facts" are no indicators for good quality monetisation strategies.

There _are_ reasons why other games monetise great, while Tanki has to release a couple of updates that lead to more and more income.

 

 

If you don't believe me, check this video:

- it might change your way you see f2p games.

There is a reason, why the RU29 and EN11 servers (= new players) have more load then other servers in average.

There is also a reason why Tanki cares less about the needs of Generalissimos, as they do spend less money... the most money is earned by players on their way to generalissimo.

---

But actually I am pretty sick of discussing here. Please don't get me wrong, I'm simply stepping back and out of this game anyways (like announced some time ago), and therefore it does not feel worthy to spend my time here.

 

So to all druggers and non druggers that have a fruitfull and respectfull discussion here -> thanks for your time, good luck in the game :)

 

 

ps: I bet some not very brigt player turns out now and calls me whiner and runner :p :p :p

[racer22_online 206]

Method to save from 'losing data':

 

When using 'any' online forms I always type into MS Word first or (MS OneNote) and then copy and paste it. 

(However, I nearly always write my second attempt better (shorter) then the first - so 'losing data' is not always bad!)

After 'pasting' into the Tanki forum - then use 'select all' (CTRL A) - then click the second icon on top left of the Tanki forum edit page - 'tooltip' says 'remove format'.

This fixes the 'font' amongst other things.

 

Pro Mode needs a large critical mass of players to make it more popular - and Tanki has done nothing to encourage players to use it.

Without suitable Pro Mode battles to choose from many users will not buy a pass.

 

BlackWasp777 will go down in history for getting the Go Pro club going - and great to have omrot and crew  keeping it going. 

 

If everyone in this forum thread agrees that we need to have battle options with reduced drugging then they should all sign into the Go Pro club and help start Go Pro battles.

(I have to repeat - I'm not against drugging to the optimum - I can drug with the best when I choose to (however, only when I'm on the weaker side) - I do like to see fair play - over use of drugs by the leading side is not fair play.)

 

At present it's hard to get everyone together at the same times for Go Pro.

I would like to get to the point that every hour on the hour we try to start (or find) a Go Pro battle.

If we get this - then more users will justify buying a Pro Mode pass.

 

The good news is that RU2 has been much better of late for some good Go Pro type matches - however, this is mostly for Commanders or Gismos.

This is important, because the higher rank levels have much higher levels of drugging (we have 'lost' the majority of non-druggers by this stage).

Such a shame that Tanki will not allow us to identify the non-druggers from the druggers - ideally by a count of the total drugs used on the scoreboard - especially in DM.  And health pack users in DM should be shot.

 

In Go Pro, I do prefer to have air drops switched on because I need my nitro fix! 

However, I accept the leading team tends to gain more of an advantage from air drops and so for the time being I'm prepared to accept plain vanilla.

If we get more Go Pro users then we can have more battle variety.

 

Note in Go Pro, we can swap players around to try and balance teams, we can also put on less protective paint to handicap yourself if your tank is too OP.

 

Don't know about Go Pro? - search the forum for 'Go Pro'.

[The-Operator219 1,929]

So how was everyone's week?

[ELIZABETH1122 337]

 

Pro Mode needs a large critical mass of players to make it more popular - and Tanki has done nothing to encourage players to use it.

Without suitable Pro Mode battles to choose from many users will not buy a pass.

 

BlackWasp777 will go down in history for getting the Go Pro club going - and great to have omrot and crew  keeping it going. 

 

If everyone in this forum thread agrees that we need to have battle options with reduced drugging then they should all sign into the Go Pro club and help start Go Pro battles.

(I have to repeat - I'm not against drugging to the optimum - I can drug with the best when I choose to (however, only when I'm on the weaker side) - I do like to see fair play - over use of drugs by the leading side is not fair play.)

 

At present it's hard to get everyone together at the same times for Go Pro.

I would like to get to the point that every hour on the hour we try to start (or find) a Go Pro battle.

If we get this - then more users will justify buying a Pro Mode pass.

 

The good news is that RU2 has been much better of late for some good Go Pro type matches - however, this is mostly for Commanders or Gismos.

This is important, because the higher rank levels have much higher levels of drugging (we have 'lost' the majority of non-druggers by this stage).

Such a shame that Tanki will not allow us to identify the non-druggers from the druggers - ideally by a count of the total drugs used on the scoreboard - especially in DM.  And health pack users in DM should be shot.

 

In Go Pro, I do prefer to have air drops switched on because I need my nitro fix! 

However, I accept the leading team tends to gain more of an advantage from air drops and so for the time being I'm prepared to accept plain vanilla.

If we get more Go Pro users then we can have more battle variety.

 

Note in Go Pro, we can swap players around to try and balance teams, we can also put on less protective paint to handicap yourself if your tank is too OP.

 

Don't know about Go Pro? - search the forum for 'Go Pro'.

I do not agree to reduce supply/drug use.  I am not against supply/drug free games if they are bought with a pro pass.  I am all for pro pass and have said so repeatedly over and over again.  I would like to see more options with longer term passes that would reduce the overall cost, just as bulk buying of supply/drugs