Reduce power of garage supplies

[Lankero 595]

A brain is available to everyone, but someone cannot find out how to buy it ! :P

 

Why do not you state your concept clearly: in your opinion money should buy the victory. OK, then ask Tanki Online to create a Button for you: 5,000 crystals to win now! Then you can press it over and over :lol:

 

Pro pass is a possibility, hoping the number of users will keep up. But again, if you love the game you got to think to new users, without whom this game will die. And new users will not waste crystals before learning the game. In the meantime they will get annihilated by druggers and leave.

 

Guess you misunderstood him/her... he/she said that players without M4 cannot drug, as they put crystals into equipment...

 

But you just had to use that "whining" thing again, didn't you? :P

I'm not even going to bother to answer you since you clearly don't have the brain or the will  to understand me and give me intelligent answers. Maybe tomorrow, and I expect a bit more mature answers then :) Good night

[Gabe2607 499]

 

 

No, you've dodged and evaded this "thousand of times" and your answer to such queries are circular. I never get a reasonable answer so I'm still waiting. Until I get one, my opinion of you is that you like being punished and then to moan about it afterwards.

Just noticed... another way of saying whining...

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Then you say you made a case on my/our behalf (in favor of non druggers? When? Where?

There is a thing called search but I'll help you out. Here's a couple to get you started.

 

Supply Pass

 

Slow down druggers' xp and in-game pts

 

 

PS.: I still love your stats, even if I am still scratching my head over those Blue Spheres in connection to drugs... :)

Thanks. I found it interesting so I shared.

 

 

 

[ll.xx.indian.xx.ll 69]

As far as I know the supplies section of the garage doesn't require any special passes or such to enter? Neither does spending crystals there. 

Drugging wouldn't be a problem if people would realise to buy drugs to fight other druggers...... But nah let's cry about them using drugs on forum instead  :rolleyes:

That's good idea but how much they can buy like buyers. A buyer's single battle = A non buyer's hole month daily gifts . So is this fair? is this balance between buyers and non buyers?

[dan146_tanker 770]

Whats wrong with calling you 'whiners' ? after all we seem to have gotten tagged with the names 'noob drugger' or 'drugger'

 

What would you like to be called my little flower, as to not hurt your feelings anymore  :wub:

 

 

 

 

 

[dan146_tanker 770]

I'm afraid it doesn't make sense, But good try  :P

Makes sense for me so that's good enough.

[ll.xx.indian.xx.ll 69]

Makes sense for me so that's good enough.

XD

[dan146_tanker 770]

XD

:D

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

So going back to your original claim which I have asked for evidence of In fact, I provided evidence a few posts above.

 

You still have yet to provide reasonable examples despite saying you know of such games that die quickly or slowly due to giving too much advantage given to buyers. Um......Tanki Online? :lol:

 

It seems to me that you just say things because they sound good and when you're called to back up your claims you're unable to.  You have no answers, only rhetoric. But hey, what a journey you took me on! All that way and still no answers! Congrats on making me waste all that time!

I'm happy to keep you on the forum instead of in-game making life miserable for some non-druggers. :)

 

No, you've dodged and evaded this "thousand of times" and your answer to such queries are circular. I never get a reasonable answer so I'm still waiting. Until I get one, my opinion of you is that you like being punished and then to moan about it afterwards. First off, you must learn to form at least reasonable impressions of others, not give great examples of logical fallacies.

 

Okay, I will tell you the reason us crazy deluded non-druggers play standard battles, so you don't have any reason to bring up this again.:

 

1. Most PRO battles are xp/bp.

2. A good majority of the rest are parkour.

3. Some are drugs-on, SCD-off.

4. Some of them are just PRO battles because friends want to play privately.

5. A good majority of the left-overs have no time limit, only flag and point limits, and we have something called a life.

6. Almost all of the rest are on boring, grind maps like Polygon, mostly.

 

Which leaves us with 1, maybe 2 if lucky, actual multiweapon drugs-off PRO battles.

[Gabe2607 499]

Whats wrong with calling you 'whiners' ? after all we seem to have gotten tagged with the names 'noob drugger' or 'drugger'

 

What would you like to be called my little flower, as to not hurt your feelings anymore  :wub:

As I already mentioned, the term "whiner" does not hurt me a bit, as I do not see the connection between hoping for a drug power reduction to make it a better game with more skilled users, and the term whining. Same thing goes for "jealous", "poor", "cry baby" and the sort. Do you get offended if I call you... "apple eater" or "carpenter"? No, right? Same feeling here, but it is just... boring... 

 

Drugger and non drugger seem pretty clear.

 

 

And thanks for the spoiler... let me try...

 

 

 

There is a thing called search but I'll help you out. Here's a couple to get you started.

 

Supply Pass

 

Slow down druggers' xp and in-game pts

 

 

Thanks. I found it interesting so I shared.

 

 

 

The two proposals... let me first say my fault: I am not going to study them that much right now, so I may get them wrong, ok? The first one (Supply Pass) sounds to me more a Paradise for Druggers: they buy it and have limitless drug supply. Free users and new users get more hammered. But again, I might not have understood the full extent. The second, Drugger Tax. I do not see it as a slow down on drugs. Druggers will keep hammering getting less points and non druggers will keep having hard time.

 

Additionally: to get a change in the system, not always the best thing is to present a full project. Sometimes it just requires the users to be heard... So while your approach to changes definitely looks more professional, it might not always be the best approach... Just saying :)

[Gabe2607 499]

Use this

 

 

 

 

 

Then this

 

 

 

B)

Sorry for not using MultiQuote, I just have troubles keeping up with the posts... :)

 

Concerning the above, I just wanted to say that I try not to play against friends...

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

So going back to your original claim which I have asked for evidence of In fact, I provided evidence a few posts above.

No, you didn't.

 

---

 

1. Most PRO battles are xp/bp.

2. A good majority of the rest are parkour.

3. Some are drugs-on, SCD-off.

4. Some of them are just PRO battles because friends want to play privately.

5. A good majority of the left-overs have no time limit, only flag and point limits, and we have something called a life.

6. Almost all of the rest are on boring, grind maps like Polygon, mostly.

 

Which leaves us with 1, maybe 2 if lucky, actual multiweapon drugs-off PRO battles.

EN2 right now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Use this

 

]

 

Then this

 

B)

^ this.

 

 

RU2 right now

 

 

 

 

Now I'm not gonna post them all here, but I counted a dozen battles that suit your criteria before I got bored and I wasn't even half way down the list.

 

You have no excuses whatsoever not to by a PRO pass and join or create the battles you say you want. The truth is as I said, you're drawn to the supply-enabled battles like a moth to a candle and you enjoy the misery. Why else would you subject yourself to it when there is so much variety these days with a PRO pass?

 

And before you say these are at Legend level,

 

here's for my alt right now - Tons!

 

 

 

 

[ll.xx.indian.xx.ll 69]

Some years ago I had been seen this post. He  comment on Smoky XT in 2011 . The best opinion on Tanki Online I had ever seen . Now I just showing you. 

 

By the way if they called us whiners then they will be muppets . XD

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Some years ago I had been seen this post. He  comment on Smoky XT in 2011 . The best opinion on Tanki Online I had ever seen . Now I just showing you. 

 

By the way if they called us whiners then they will be muppets . XD

Whiners is about complaining whereas muppets insult the intelligence of a person directly.

 

 

Please refrain from insult.

[Gabe2607 499]

Why play against friends when all you need to do Invite them to battle on your side and the get them to invite others or wait for other players to join. Simple  B)

Following your input: 1) Create a Battle 2) Invite Friends... ops already here, the first Friend I invite will play against me, right?

 

EN2 right now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

^ this.

 

 

RU2 right now

 

 

 

 

Now I'm not gonna post them all here, but I counted a dozen battles that suit your criteria before I got bored and I wasn't even half way down the list.

 

You have no excuses whatsoever not to by a PRO pass and join or create the battles you say you want. The truth is as I said, you're drawn to the supply-enabled battles like a moth to a candle and you enjoy the misery. Why else would you subject yourself to it when there is so much variety these days with a PRO pass?

 

And before you say these are at Legend level,

 

here's for my alt right now - Tons!

 

 

 

 

Personally, I loved DEEPLY the (real) PRO battles I played during the "gift" made by TO. Even made 16,442 crystals in one single battle. My K/D was 2.0 as an average. But I am going to wait to see if the amount of battles remains high also in January before to buy a Pass. (In December I got no much time for the game anyway). said several times to have bought a pass already and was very enthusiast. But I am convinced it would make more sense to have standard battles without drugs and Drug battles through a Pass. This mainly for welcoming new users to come, stay and learn skills first...

 

Some years ago I had been seen this post. He  comment on Smoky XT in 2011 . The best opinion on Tanki Online I had ever seen . Now I just showing you. 

 

By the way if they called us whiners then they will be muppets . XD

Damn, I thought that "nuclear bomb" idea was mine... :(  but I have no doubt it would be used heavily :D

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

This topic has 182 +1's and almost 7500 posts. Given my recent post on the topic stats, I think we can safely say that supplies are not the main reason for player attrition. The Kick2 topic on the other hand has more +1's than this topic has unique posters, indicating that mults and idle players are a much bigger concern.

When I read this, I would assume the following:

 

1) Let me (for simplicity in later explanations) split the community in 3 groups:

  SupEffectReducers....like supplies to be reduced in effect

  SupEffectKeepers......like supplies as they are today

  Undefined................. are neutral, does not care, does not read here

 

2)  182 likes are a lot. But of course only [supEffectReducers] of the community leaves their likes here

3)  kick2.0 has about 2x the number of likes. But of course [supEffectReducers] + [supEffectKeepers] will leave their likes at kick2.0

 

I can not tell, which problem is bigger.

But I can tell, that supplies split the community, while kick2.0 unites them by their respective ideas.

So in terms of likes I only see, what logical.

 

 

Of course this also means:

- Kick2.0 would make both groups happy.

- A reduction of supply effects would make one group happy but the other unhappy.

 

 

---

 

to gather  more data (if needed), it would make sense to..

 

 

check the battle lists during the peaktime by some alts in various ranks, and count the number of

- normal battles (non pro)

- pro battles, garage supplies on, SCD on, all default settings

- pro battles, garage supplies on, SCD off

- pro battles, garage supplies on, some other custom settings

- pro battles, garage supplies off

 

+ completely exclude any XP/BP or parcour battle.

+ and check how many players are in at the moment

 

This would give an inperfect.. but way better overview, what players like.

 

 

[Gabe2607 499]

Whiners is about complaining whereas muppets insult the intelligence of a person directly.

 

 

Please refrain from insult.

Stupid actually (ref. Google) means lacking intelligence or common sense... A stupid drugger or a stupid non drugger may just be points of view :)

 

And muppet, (ref. Google), is an incompetent or foolish person.

 

Therefore with the Forum features I am a big muppet  ;)

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

after Tanki changed the proPass pricing, the critical mass that was missed all the time, is finally available.

So druggers can play with their own kind, while drug-dislikers can play with their own kind.

 

This is the only reason.. but a big reason.. why I warmly welcomed this new update

 

---

 

The situation for the casual gamers that come online only for only 3x a week for 1h each has definitely worsen.

They have not many supplies (less missions completed).. and on the other hand the amount of druggers in that normal battles has increased (based on the idea that layers hungry for overpowering other focus on that battles + backed up by some personal impression.. no massive field test data available).

In theory this also leads to the point, that the druggers are distributed more evenly over both teams inside a battle. The automatic assignment of players distributes them even more evenly.

 

So

- maybe the battles are more fair now, if I look at it by comparing [team to team].

- but they are definitely more frustrating for the situation [casual player's team performs ok, but he for himself has the feeling of having no effect, and scores low].

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

The two proposals... let me first say my fault: I am not going to study them that much right now, so I may get them wrong, ok? The first one (Supply Pass) sounds to me more a Paradise for Druggers: they buy it and have limitless drug supply. Free users and new users get more hammered. But again, I might not have understood the full extent. The second, Drugger Tax. I do not see it as a slow down on drugs. Druggers will keep hammering getting less points and non druggers will keep having hard time.

You clearly didn't understand either.

 

The first idea makes supplies more accessible for free users and no, they're not unlimited as you said. 

The second, +1s from Rusty and Brubook, shifts some of the battlefund away from mindless druggers and gives it to those who made most of their points without as many supplies.

 

Both ideas favour free users without upsetting tanki's income.

 

Additionally: to get a change in the system, not always the best thing is to present a full project. Sometimes it just requires the users to be heard... So while your approach to changes definitely looks more professional, it might not always be the best approach... Just saying :)

You're naive if you think we can affect change in the I&S section. But somehow, I don't think, "Go Easier on Free Users", would carry much weight either. I understand the concept of less is more thanks but not in these cases. Detail is needed for those who actually read and try to understand.

 

And the point is I tried even though it's contrary to what I believe. I heard the constant complaining from your quarter and came up with workable ideas that would give more to free users than what they currently get. 

 

Tanki devs clearly didn't want to go down either route because they've separated us into Casual Players and PRO pass holders. Casual players get the basics whereas those who can be bothered to invest a little time earning the PRO pass, which is easy btw, reap the benefits of creating and customising battles. They've chosen the route and that is the PRO pass.

[Gabe2607 499]

When I read this, I would assume the following:

 

1) Let me (for simplicity in later explanations) split the community in 3 groups:

  SupEffectReducers....like supplies to be reduced in effect

  SupEffectKeepers......like supplies as they are today

  Undefined................. are neutral, does not care, does not read here

 

2)  182 likes are a lot. But of course only [supEffectReducers] of the community leaves their likes here

3)  kick2.0 has about 2x the number of likes. But of course [supEffectReducers] + [supEffectKeepers] will leave their likes at kick2.0

 

I can not tell, which problem is bigger.

But I can tell, that supplies split the community, while kick2.0 unites them by their respective ideas.

So in terms of likes I only see, what logical.

 

 

Of course this also means:

- Kick2.0 would make a loooot + a loooot of players happy.

- A reduction of supply effects would make a loooot happy but also a loooot of players unhappy.

 

 

---

 

Actually, it would make sense to check the battle lists during the peaktime by some alts in various ranks, and count the number of

- normal battles (non pro)

- pro battles, garage supplies on, SCD on, all default settings

- pro battles, garage supplies on, SCD off

- pro battles, garage supplies on, some other custom settings

- pro battles, garage supplies off

 

+ completely exclude any XP/BP or parcour battle.

+ and check how many players are in at the moment

 

This would give an inperfect.. but way better overview, what players like.

Nice analysis. Attention however: right now you would check existing players at existing conditions. What do I mean? I have no stats but suspect (looking at the forum, at the chat and at the battles) there are many more Legends than new users. Legends gets many drugs free and frankly have no alternatives than to use them (the only real reason I should not get mad at them :) ). Seems obvious to me that there are more drug battles by far. Furthermore, the average age got pretty low (again, no stats but see TO gathering videos, listen to YouTube voices, read chats, see comments and attitude...) and a kid knows that without drugs, cannot win. The questions are: 1) why the numbers of players felt dramatically and 2) how to make new users coming and staying.

 

IMHO working on mults, lag and whatever else is more to satisfy and keep old timer Legends, who anyway I doubt would leave in mass, as they are too addicted (several years here). Working on a drug change is easy, fundamental for new users, should have been done long ago... but might be too late already :( 

[Gabe2607 499]

You clearly didn't understand either.

 

The first idea makes supplies more accessible for free users and no, they're not unlimited as you said. 

The second, +1s from Rusty and Brubook, shifts some of the battlefund away from mindless druggers and gives it to those who made most of their points without as many supplies.

 

Both ideas favour free users without upsetting tanki's income.

 

You're naive if you think we can affect change in the I&S section. But somehow, I don't think, "Go Easier on Free Users", would carry much weight either. I understand the concept of less is more thanks but not in these cases. Detail is needed for those who actually read and try to understand.

 

And the point is I tried even though it's contrary to what I believe. I heard the constant complaining from your quarter and came up with workable ideas that would give more to free users than what they currently get. 

 

Tanki devs clearly didn't want to go down either route because they've separated us into Casual Players and PRO pass holders. Casual players get the basics whereas those who can be bothered to invest a little time earning the PRO pass, which is easy btw, reap the benefits of creating and customising battles. They've chosen the route and that is the PRO pass.

If those ideas favor non druggers, good. I apologize but I am not going to study them right now, as I am squeezed like a lemon and frankly they do not look easy either. My question to you. What is wrong with very simple suggestions such as:

 

1) drugs give +20% (or similar) rather than +100% or

2) limited amount of drugs per battle (either individually or per team) or

3) standard battles to be Drug Free and a Pass for Drug battles or

4) same Daily Missions that Legends have, for all.

 

I might have forgot some others, but in 4 lines you have 4 very easy solutions.

 

Surely the actual PRO pass is a possibility, but I want to see how long it holds people there. I would expect new users to stay away for a while from anything which contains the word "buy" a pass"..

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

If those ideas favor non druggers, good. I apologize but I am not going to study them right now, as I am squeezed like a lemon and frankly they do not look easy either. My question to you. What is wrong with very simple suggestions such as:

 

1) drugs give +20% (or similar) rather than +100% or

2) limited amount of drugs per battle (either individually or per team) or

3) standard battles to be Drug Free and a Pass for Drug battles or

4) same Daily Missions that Legends have, for all.

 

I might have forgot some others, but in 4 lines you have 4 very easy solutions.

They all impact negatively on tanki's income. If you want an alternative way of doing things then they must be neutral or make money for Tanki. They have shareholders to answer to.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

....PRO battles list here....

I see most of them have a lopsided flag limit, or a lopsided time limit, and there are tons on maps like Silence, Noise, Aleksandrov....

 

Now you might say "create your own battles then" but usually they will fill up slowly and empty out quickly.  

 

I say this again: If drugs were reduced in effectiveness (not akin to limiting actual power), more non-druggers would play Standard battles, resulting in a higher non-drugger to drugger ratio, resulting in really the same advantage to druggers. Why are you opposed to it again?  

[SentinelTower 6]

If those ideas favor non druggers, good. I apologize but I am not going to study them right now, as I am squeezed like a lemon and frankly they do not look easy either. My question to you. What is wrong with very simple suggestions such as:

 

1) drugs give +20% (or similar) rather than +100% or

2) limited amount of drugs per battle (either individually or per team) or

3) standard battles to be Drug Free and a Pass for Drug battles or

4) same Daily Missions that Legends have, for all.

 

I might have forgot some others, but in 4 lines you have 4 very easy solutions.

The ideal "nerf" to drugs would be to only allow one status-enhancing drug (DA, DD, or SB) to be used at a time. Doing so would add a better strategy element to the game -- you can choose to become extremely tanki (DA), a powerful but fragile glass cannon (DD), or a speed demon (SB). If used properly, a single drug can still change the flow of a game, yet they are not so powerful as to completely dominate one side.

 

All three drugs would cause 10-second cooldowns on Repair Kit (which would heal a tank immediately and not provide invulnerability), so you could still heal yourself while using a drug, but not immediately pop a DA/RK combo. In addition, a "jettison drug" button would be necessary if you were attempting to pick up or use a different drug with one already equipped.

 

The reason continual druggers would dislike such a nerf is that they would be brought down to the power level of the average player. They rely on stacking drugs to win battles -- take that away, and they'd complain.

 

While I don't have facts to bring it up, it's a valid assumption that the majority of Tanki's income comes from druggers who pay for drugs. While the update would attract new players and enlarge the customer base, Tanki feels like they would lose the buyers they have, and aren't willing to take that gamble.

 

Currently my only hope for the future of this game is for Tanki's F2P base to dwindle so severely that they are forced to take this gamble, and satisfy their buyers with something other than raw power.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

They all impact negatively on tanki's income. If you want an alternative way of doing things then they must be neutral or make money for Tanki. They have shareholders to answer to.

++

 

Unfortunately that's right.

 

Their latest move to introduce the battle button and in return give the pro pass cheaper, was for me a clear indication that they earn now more from non-drug-selling (like paints, gold boxes, ...) and that they can "afford" it for the very first time to risk a higher amount of non-drugged battles around (because the idea to aligning the pro pass prices to ranks is older then my history here..)

So the tides of income are turning..

- but we don't know if it would be enough to change the drugs power

- and we don't know, that if they would do it, even when they can afford it.

 

 

The whole game is build on this +100% benefits (DA, DP, legacy 50% paints = +100% survival time,.. all that "power up" stuff that sets you apart from a tanker in plain M3 without that special perfect module and that amount of supplies.. they work on +100% base *1). I consider that whole idea of +100% stuff for a real problem, as it gives the players that can not go for it the feeling of beeing absolutely chanceless (instead of giving them just the feeling of "hard to compete, true challange, and sometimes I even win").

 

 

 

*1) except M4s hulls and turrets, which give roughly a +18% advantage over M3s, which comes down to +40% if you have both. But grinding some turret+hull from M3 to full M4 takes about +1.8Mio crystals.. that's maybe a whole years income for an average(!) Legend player. And for the low level buyer it's not affordable too (roughly 200USD/EUR.. that's a lot of drug kits).