Reduce power of garage supplies

[ll.xx.indian.xx.ll 69]

Following your input: 1) Create a Battle 2) Invite Friends... ops already here, the first Friend I invite will play against me, right?

 

Personally, I loved DEEPLY the (real) PRO battles I played during the "gift" made by TO. Even made 16,442 crystals in one single battle. My K/D was 2.0 as an average. But I am going to wait to see if the amount of battles remains high also in January before to buy a Pass. (In December I got no much time for the game anyway). said several times to have bought a pass already and was very enthusiast. But I am convinced it would make more sense to have standard battles without drugs and Drug battles through a Pass. This mainly for welcoming new users to come, stay and learn skills first...

 

Damn, I thought that "nuclear bomb" idea was mine... :(  but I have no doubt it would be used heavily :D

yeah! right.  :-)

[Gabe2607 499]

They all impact negatively on tanki's income. If you want an alternative way of doing things then they must be neutral or make money for Tanki. They have shareholders to answer to.

If AlternativaPlatform would be getting most of the money from drug kits (and other items), then we shall see a bankruptcy coming soon, considering the quick drop of visits to the website... 100 employees require 20,000 users spending 100 Euro a year just to cover salaries and offices cost...  I am sure they are much smarter than that. A huge amount of new users coming to stay is badly needed for sure and getting hammered by druggers is not a way to welcome them.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

I see most of them have a lopsided flag limit, or a lopsided time limit, and there are tons on maps like Silence, Noise, Aleksandrov....

 

Now you might say "create your own battles then" but usually they will fill up slowly and empty out quickly.  

 

I say this again: If drugs were reduced in effectiveness (not akin to limiting actual power), more non-druggers would play Standard battles, resulting in a higher non-drugger to drugger ratio, resulting in really the same advantage to druggers. Why are you opposed to it again?  

 

Too Picky

I've proven the case beyond all reason and found many PRO battles to suit your criteria. You are finding things that are not there.  Tell me, what constitutes too many flags (give me numbers) and what constitutes too much time? Also, which maps are not suitable for you and which ones are?

 

See where this is going? Maybe you should ask the devs to create a map called I_already_won which is 3 flags, 15 minutes, drops on & supplies off. If you're gonna be that picky, no wonder you can't find anything. The mind boggles!

 

Further, you choose supply-enabled battles over 1 or 2 flags too many and then proceed not to drug in it to the detriment of your teammates. This is borderline sabotage imo!

 

"Non-Druggers"

You say non-druggers, what is that? Someone who consciously decides not to use their supplies in supply-enabled battles? Why? Give me a reason why you choose this. I'm sure you have plenty so please answer me as to why you have decided to abstain. This goes to Gabe and all the others too. Please answer the questions.  Why do you disagree with Rusty on this? Any takers?

 

 

 

"There are occasions where using garage supplies is ok, especially when defending the flag or getting away with a flag" -- RustyNail

[Gabe2607 499]

Too Picky

I've proven the case beyond all reason and found many PRO battles to suit your criteria. You are finding things that are not there.  Tell me, what constitutes too many flags (give me numbers) and what constitutes too much time? Also, which maps are not suitable for you and which ones are?

 

See where this is going? Maybe you should ask the devs to create a map called I_already_won which is 3 flags, 15 minutes, drops on & supplies off. If you're gonna be that picky, no wonder you can't find anything. The mind boggles!

 

Further, you choose supply-enabled battles over 1 or 2 flags too many and then proceed not to drug in it to the detriment of your teammates. This is borderline sabotage imo!

 

"Non-Druggers"

You say non-druggers, what is that? Someone who consciously decides not to use their supplies in supply-enabled battles? Why? Give me a reason why you choose this. I'm sure you have plenty so please answer me as to why you have decided to abstain. This goes to Gabe and all the others too. Please answer the questions.  Why do you disagree with Rusty on this? Any takers?

 

 

 

"There are occasions where using garage supplies is ok, especially when defending the flag or getting away with a flag" -- RustyNail

Just my own opinion: a non drugger is not one not using at all, but one who is in favor of a major reduction of drugs power, because they are way way too powerful in TO (again most M1 drugged have higher damage/protection than M4, without considering the health boost).

 

Why I do not drug: many reasons. Why I do not buy drugs I guess is obvious: it is silly to throw money away just to have the temporary feeling that I am a special player, when I know that I just bought my kills. So let's talk about the free drugs. Just my choice, not necessarily the right one. 1) Users would point out that I "scream"  against druggers while drugging myself. And I would not have a strong case. Furthermore, 2) it is obvious that being forced to play in a weaker position, makes a player better in skills. I would invite all users to try and after a month you will see how a better player you became, as you have to make it do with what you have, rather than relying on some key numbers always there to help you. Finally 3) I am convinced that once you learned to use drugs, you hardly can stay without them: your fingers and brain are set to use them in the best way and it is difficult "to go back". I asked several friends to avoid drugs for a while and it did not take long before their fingers were slipping :)

 

And 4) the drugs I do not use do not go wasted. They remain in garage. Should there be a re-balance or should I arrive to a point where all equipment is bought, I will or may use them. But the amount of drugs I got from over a year of Daily Missions is less than a tenth than what the biggest druggers used. If I use them now, I can be competitive for a month and then? Let's also not forget that once one drugs, that user should just win (or the drugs have been wasted). But the win depends on the team: what if I am the only one drugging in my team and a clan arrives on the other team? 

 

The drug problem needs to get fixed.

[SentinelTower 6]

You say non-druggers, what is that? Someone who consciously decides not to use their supplies in supply-enabled battles? Why? Give me a reason why you choose this. I'm sure you have plenty so please answer me as to why you have decided to abstain. This goes to Gabe and all the others too. Please answer the questions.  Why do you disagree with Rusty on this? Any takers?

First off, it's rather unsettling that I'm responding to a post that 2000mc liked...

 

But to answer the question (and I'm speaking from a mid-ranker's perspective, this is simply a new account for a new combo), drugs just aren't fun. They aren't fun for the people who are getting killed because they're getting killed through no fault of their own. No amount of skill, combo, resistance module, or luck is a match for a constant drugger.

 

(And while I don't want to bring buyers into this, it's simply a fact that the majority of constant druggers in the middle ranks are buyers -- it's not like it's hidden information anyway, as several of them have Premium, some sort of kit, and a fancy paint. Free players simply don't have enough drugs to remain druggers for very long.)

 

Drugs aren't fun for the druggers' teammates either. Even if we're winning, it's immensely frustrating when there are druggers on my team, as they not only steal kills and flags that I deserved, but they give the impression that we're only winning because of drugs, not because of any actual skill. It also pretty much screws anyone who has the "finish first in a battle" mission, since the first place spot is also stolen.

 

I suppose the only fun a constant drugger brings is to himself, through killing non-druggers (which at mid ranks is basically everyone) without effort, and even that gets boring for some people after a while. Druggers make players leave battles, which frustrates both teams since the battle isn't fun anymore, and only satisfies one player.

 

And finally, the main reason that I don't drug is because of the stereotype that druggers are elitist d-bags. Which is mostly true, honestly.

 

Am I right lads, or am I right lads?

 

You are right lad.

 

I know I'm right lad!

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Too Picky

I've proven the case beyond all reason and found many PRO battles to suit your criteria. You are finding things that are not there.  Tell me, what constitutes too many flags (give me numbers) and what constitutes too much time? Also, which maps are not suitable for you and which ones are?

 

See where this is going? Maybe you should ask the devs to create a map called I_already_won which is 3 flags, 15 minutes, drops on & supplies off. If you're gonna be that picky, no wonder you can't find anything. The mind boggles!

 

The point is that with PRO battles, there are too many toggle-able settings for people to mess with.

 

Further, you choose supply-enabled battles over 1 or 2 flags too many and then proceed not to drug in it to the detriment of your teammates. This is borderline sabotage imo!

 

Oh, then how come I'm almost always in first place? Of course at the Legend rank much more people are drugging but you also get much more drugs from missions and I could use those.

"Non-Druggers"

You say non-druggers, what is that? Someone who consciously decides not to use their supplies in supply-enabled battles? Why? Give me a reason why you choose this. I'm sure you have plenty so please answer me as to why you have decided to abstain. This goes to Gabe and all the others too. Please answer the questions.  Why do you disagree with Rusty on this? Any takers?

 

 

 

"There are occasions where using garage supplies is ok, especially when defending the flag or getting away with a flag" -- RustyNail

 

I agree with RustyNail. It is perfectly acceptable to use your mission-earned supplies against druggers, or in a last-ditch situation for the win.  Read this post below on what constitutes a "drugger", and when you are NOT a drugger, even when you use supplies.

 

I_already_won said:

 

Ah, now I see where the confusion and argument is. :lol:  Let me clear up a few terms I use so you're not confused:

 

1. Drugs: Any supply activated by pressing a number key

 

2. Supplies: Any supply, picked up from the battlefield or activated by pressing keys. However, I will usually use the term "supplies" only to refer to drop-boxes, as a distinction between "drugs". Drugs are a type of supply in my book, just like squares are a type of rectangle. 

 

3. Drugger: A player that consistently uses "drugs" pretty much whenever he can, or like you said, somebody who abuses the use of drugs.

 

I understand you may be confused. Let me explain: 

 

If I am about to capture the winning flag and I press "1" on my keyboard, that means I "drugged".  However, this action doesn't make me a "drugger".  It may sound illogical but it's really not.

 

 

So our confusion results from me using the word "drug" to describe any supply used by pressing keys, and you using the term to describe abuse of this action.

 

So when I say "mines count as drugs" I am right, when using my own terms, because you can't pick up mines from the field, and anyway caught boxes do not count toward your overall drug total anyway.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

What makes you think that 'druggers' only play against 'whiners' ?

Nobody thinks that, but there is where the issue is. I've no problem with druggers playing against other druggers who can afford it, or high-rank drugwars. 

[Gabe2607 499]

 

Supplies are only a nuisance [for non-druggers if the latter] play in standard battles without the intention of using supplies.

 

enters a battle with his 1.7 drugs/minute average. His team mates will all be around 1.0. On the other side a clan all wasting 5 drugs/minute.

 

This would not be a nuisance, but a joy I would pay to see  :P

 

PS.: I got no longer permission to enter Topic 7 reasons why I will never invest in Tanki... And you?  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

 

Supplies are only a nuisance [for non-druggers if the latter] play in standard battles without the intention of using supplies.

 

Even for those who do use supplies, they are forced to in order to compete. That doesn't mean the want to or like the supplies system.  Sometimes they are trying not to bleed out their supply of drugs, but it's only truly fun when nobody worries about how many supplies they're using,

 

like on the test server. :)

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Anyway, do you know the test server is open again- for the clan system? It's quite fun to play SCD-off battles when everyone has as much drugs as they want. :)

[Gabe2607 499]

Anyway, do you know the test server is open again- for the clan system? It's quite fun to play SCD-off battles when everyone has as much drugs as they want. :)

 

 

I never been on the test server (again, I am iper super noob on these things. I do not even know what SCD stands for, I imagine S=Supplies, C=Crystals but D...?). Please show me how to get there (I can imagine someone putting a gif with street signs here...). I want to learn how to use drugs... just in case ;)

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

I never been on the test server (again, I am iper super noob on these things. I do not even know what SCD stands for, I imagine S=Supplies, C=Crystals but D...?). Please show me how to get there (I can imagine someone putting a gif with street signs here...). I want to learn how to use drugs... just in case ;)

test.tankionline.com

 

The garage won't load right now, but it always works in the afternoon and evening when all the russians are sleeping. :P

 

It's very helpful for learning how to be a drugger. As everyone has practically unlimited drugs, you have to master smart-cooldowns, press 1 at the right time, and plus have agile fingers. I honestly think I am a very skilled drugger. :lol:

 

SCD stands for smart cooldowns.....it's actually better because when everyone has DA and DD activated they kind of cancel each other out......and you have to rank to marshal before you can get any m3s, or buy the available kits. It starts you as a General, small amount of xp from leveling.

[RustyNail 1,538]

 

 

 

"Non-Druggers"

You say non-druggers, what is that? Someone who consciously decides not to use their supplies in supply-enabled battles? Why? Give me a reason why you choose this. I'm sure you have plenty so please answer me as to why you have decided to abstain. This goes to Gabe and all the others too. Please answer the questions.  Why do you disagree with Rusty on this? Any takers?

 

 

 

"There are occasions where using garage supplies is ok, especially when defending the flag or getting away with a flag" -- RustyNail

 

Please stop twisting facts.

When this topic was hot and you and your friends didn't even show here, supplies usage was lees than what it is now. At this point my ratio was below 20 supplies per hour (no XP-BP time at all, another factor that can reduce the number of supplies used and present a mild drugger as non drugger or a hard core drugger as a mild drugger) and only lately has risen to 30, due to the fact that I now choose a few occasions to drug back against certain players. It has nothing to do with whether drugging is bad for the game or not.

 

But why present only data from non druggers profiles and not post same data from famous druggers or your friends and yourself too? B) 

One can see the difference right there. And even more, if one takes into consideration repair kit usage, will see more clearly the super advantage druggers have over non drugging players.

 

*As for my quote it was from way back, a little after SCD applied, part of one of my relatively first posts in regard to drugging. I had said at that time that without SCD a player didn't have to use supplies all the time, but only when in need. With SCD, one had to guess when to activate one kind of supplies so that they could activate another one, when need be for more. Thus, everybody started to use supplies for precaution. A clever trick of Alternativa for having players start drugging.

 

Most of the players did not notice that the infamous update instead of reducing supplies usage it increased it. They used to mumbled "but now no one can use all three supplies at the same time" (despite the many captures I provided showing exactly what they said can't be done). Only later did they admit it that yes, more supplies in action, but smaller the difference between druggers and non druggers. Only it wasn't like that then, and it isn't like that now.

What they really did was they started selling power to top buyers who took their "money" back by stealing the battles funds (as top buyers always end up in the first positions and get most of the battle funds). So in other words, they started making money by giving buyers more of the crystal share, making Tanki a game very difficult to follow, unless you agree to pay, hence the original title of the topic "Drugs, the only way to win in Tanki".

 

[some naive or unintelligent players have said: and why don't you start drugging too, since if you drug you get enough funds to earn the cost of 1500 supplies kits? Well, geniuses, if everybody started to use supplies kits, then all relative OP would be gone (and biggest share of funds too!) and we would only have to pay for something that previously was free.]

 

Bottom line, the drugging issue is technically a monetary issue and on the playing level, just a frustration for all non drugging players.

 

So, do I want Alternativa to go broke? Certainly not. I was paying my little two cents before SCD as I see fair that they get money to pay the bills, even to get rich. Why not? After all, Tanki was a good concept.

Just, not for a totally unfair game that is in favor  of top buyers only. Start selling cosmetics and facilities! Make nice maps for premium users only! Make veteran battles where top ranks with full garages can spend their many supplies and enjoy a fair battle in terms of power. Is that so difficult?

 

Theses are the facts dude, in regard to both my supplies usage ratio and my isolated phrase that you quoted.

[SentinelTower 6]

Are you running for Hypocrite of 2016?

 

"I refuse to drive a Ferrari because of the stereotype that their drivers are elitist **********"

"I refuse to attend a concert of Stevie Wonder because of the stereotype that his fans are elitist **********"

"I refuse to eat bio food because of the stereotype that vegans are **********"

Your answer is simply proving my point. How ironic.  B)

 

What makes you think that 'druggers' only play against 'whiners' ?

 

I'm speaking from a mid-ranker's perspective

Please read my posts entirely so I don't have to repeat myself.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Just my own opinion: a non drugger is not one not using at all, but one who is in favor of a major reduction of drugs power, because they are way way too powerful in TO (again most M1 drugged have higher damage/protection than M4, without considering the health boost).

So because you have used supplies, you are not a non-drugger and the only person in this topic who is is @Baby_Sam

The second part is nonsense. A big drugger can also be in favour of a power reduction.

 

Therefore, you have not satisfied the question put to you. What is a non-drugger. I expected as much. Maybe you can have another stab at it.

 

Why I do not drug: many reasons. Why I do not buy drugs I guess is obvious: it is silly to throw money away just to have the temporary feeling that I am a special player, when I know that I just bought my kills. So let's talk about the free drugs. Just my choice, not necessarily the right one. 1) Users would point out that I "scream"  against druggers while drugging myself. And I would not have a strong case. Furthermore, 2) it is obvious that being forced to play in a weaker position, makes a player better in skills. I would invite all users to try and after a month you will see how a better player you became, as you have to make it do with what you have, rather than relying on some key numbers always there to help you. Finally 3) I am convinced that once you learned to use drugs, you hardly can stay without them: your fingers and brain are set to use them in the best way and it is difficult "to go back". I asked several friends to avoid drugs for a while and it did not take long before their fingers were slipping :)

I never asked why you don't buy supplies. I don't buy supplies for my alt either but I do use the ones I'm given for free.  1) You're scared of being labelled a hypocrite. Understandable but not enough reason. 2) You choose a handicap like in golf or horse racing to help you with your skills? Well don't get angry if I tell you it's not working out for you or the teammates you handicap by extension. 3) This is not a valid reason. You can learn to use the ones you are given for free and no more.

 

 

And 4) the drugs I do not use do not go wasted. They remain in garage. Should there be a re-balance or should I arrive to a point where all equipment is bought, I will or may use them.

Why would you choose to use them when all equipment is bought and not now? What is the difference? This is getting to the crux of the matter.

 

 

If I use them now, I can be competitive for a month and then?

And you are wrong if you think you will only be competitive for a month. I'm sure Rusty doesn't buy supplies and he uses plenty. Why can't you be like him? You can learn to spread them out. I do it too with my alt.

 

And if you're wondering about my alt where I don't buy supplies - here ya go.

@EscapeVelocity

 

 

The majority of my games using @EscapeVelocity are ctf - I never play xp/bp or any pro battles where supplies are switched off.  I'd estimate 80% of the time I join the losing side for the challenge. I'm very attack oriented. It's no fun dominating a bunch of noobs.

 

Only recently I have completed 4 chains of weekly missions and those sustain my account well. I don't always play every day, for example, I might complete 3 missions and collect one the next day and another the day after that without playing. It's a good little trick.

 

I hope you answer the question above.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

But to answer the question (and I'm speaking from a mid-ranker's perspective, this is simply a new account for a new combo), drugs just aren't fun. They aren't fun for the people who are getting killed because they're getting killed through no fault of their own. No amount of skill, combo, resistance module, or luck is a match for a constant drugger.

Nobody says they use supplies for fun reasons. I use them to help my side win. Winning is what this game is all about otherwise why keep score?

Instead of asking for a nerf of supplies, why don't you ask tanki to stop keeping score? See how far that gets you?

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Nobody says they use supplies for fun reasons. I use them to help my side win. Winning is what this game is all about otherwise why keep score?

Instead of asking for a nerf of supplies, why don't you ask tanki to stop keeping score? See how far that gets you?

Well it might be a good idea to ask Tanki to keep score based more on skill than drug usage. -_-

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

I agree with RustyNail. It is perfectly acceptable to use your mission-earned supplies against druggers, or in a last-ditch situation for the win. 

I do too. So why don't you do it then? You avoided the question. You can afford to use more than 6 supplies per hour.

 

The question was;

"Someone who consciously decides not to use their supplies in supply-enabled battles? Why? Give me a reason why you choose this"

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Well it might be a good idea to ask Tanki to keep score based more on skill than drug usage. -_-

Why keep score at all if it's just for fun?

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

I do too. So why don't you do it then? You avoided the question. You can afford to use more than 6 supplies per hour.

 

The question was;

"Someone who consciously decides not to use their supplies in supply-enabled battles? Why? Give me a reason why you choose this"

I do do it. -_-  Just not that much...Check my profile.....It's not like I've never used supplies...but I only use them for winning flags and against big druggers.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Why keep score at all if it's just for fun?

IMO the score should reflect players' skill and strategic level of thinking, and drug usage to a point. ( I know, it's crazy)

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

I didn't include you for my questions because you're a drugger, unlike the others.
 

Please stop twisting facts.
When this topic was hot and you and your friends didn't even show here, supplies usage was lees than what it is now. At this point my ratio was below 20 supplies per hour (no XP-BP time at all, another factor that can reduce the number of supplies used and present a mild drugger as non drugger or a hard core drugger as a mild drugger) and only lately has risen to 30, due to the fact that I now choose a few occasions to drug back against certain players. It has nothing to do with whether drugging is bad for the game or not.

A lot of words in your post but very little meaning. I got bored and lost the will to try and get your meaning. Seriously - I have no clue what you're going on about.
 
You say you had no xp-bp time, well that goes against you. If you did play in those battles then you'd probably not be using supplies at all and your supply rate would drop as your playing time increased. So your drug-rate is as high as it is simply because this is your natural rate. Nothing wrong with that!
 
But I'm twisting no facts.
 

A year ago my ratio was less than 20 supplies per hour, now it must have risen to 30 or so

And this is what you said back then

 

In regard to what constitutes drugging... Provided no XP/Parkour is included, a factor of 30-35 supplies per hour is indicating a mild drugging... The worse kind is a fully MUed combo with an additional ratio of 30-40 supplies per hour, worse than a plain M3 combo with a ratio of 70-80 supplies per hour.

I'm sure that Rusty uses a fully Mued combo but please correct me if I'm wrong...
His current ratio is 33 supplies per minute.

So you became a "mild drugger" of the "worse kind" (your words) so you had to shift the parameters to exclude yourself from being a drugger.

 

You can always tell who 's the drugging one. Supplies usage above 40-60 supplies per hour.

Even though you're a drugger yourself, you still feel the need to publically humiliate some opponents who use drugs against you by posting their pictures here. When these pictures have been removed due to some minor infraction of the rules, you threaten the mods by saying you'll go to social media with them so you can humiliate them there instead.

 

Who hides the drugers' pictures? Aren't they public content? Should I go to social media with them?

You then shout hypocrisy excusing your public shaming as some kind of moral lesson.

 

 

Hypocrisy.

But then again, who am I to attempt to inspire a moral attitude to young people with no sense of monetary balance?

 

But I'm seeing hypocrisy every time you post an opponents picture using supplies.
 
 

Rusty: No need at all to humiliate the opponents, to crash them, or to laugh at them. That's a golden rule for virtual games too. Just because we don't see the other player does not mean we can use them without restrain.

 

There are no twisting of the facts here. Just facts.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

I do do it. -_-  Just not that much...Check my profile.....It's not like I've never used supplies...but I only use them for winning flags and against big druggers.

So you have no right to complain when someone uses more than you if you're not using your free supplies to the fullest. You can sustain 5 times as many as you currently use. There are no excuses.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

I didn't include you for my questions because you're a drugger, unlike the others.

That doesn't mean he has to like the supplies system. In fact, when I_already_won reaches Legend, I hope I will become a mild drugger too, given that I was successful. However, I will only use supplies against druggers themselves, and I will still hate the supplies system.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

So you have no right to complain when someone uses more than you if you're not using your free supplies to the fullest. You can sustain 5 times as many as you currently use. There are no excuses.

I'm saving up my supplies to use when this account gets much higher-ranked and fights M4 drugging legends, because last time I checked, high-rank gameplay includes a lot more drugging.

 

Also, I don't need the supplies now anyway to be succesful...I already finish in first place most of the time. :)