Reduce power of garage supplies

[Dliver 436]

I_already_won Posted 28 Dec 2016 - 13:39

 

Then what do you think of the proposal to disable supplies by default in normal battles? Non-druggers can have their games and supply loves can have their games. And I know they would be available.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

I have always been a strong advocate that drug free games should be an option for everyone, not just to those with pro passes. That is one point that I will strongly agree with you about. I think it is really unfair for those who don't want to spend for supplies or don't want to use them are being forced to spend for the right to play non-supply games. I've always said if they would only make that option freely available to all, then most of the controversy over the use of Supplies would disappear. As to whether or not it should be the default setting is a completely different discussion. Either way it should be an option that all should have. Everyone should be able to pick what kind of Battle they want to play. Having a pro pass should just give you the ability to have even more options to fine tune the battles.

[basenji7 1,199]

Hey I have a new astoundingly intelligent idea!!!!!!!!!!! How about PRO battles!!!!!! Since obviously the devs AREN'T gonna reduce power of garage supplies (I'd think drugs would rake in A LOT of income, why would they?) how 'bout you try and get more people to play pro non drug non xp/bp battles????? Wow, what a genius solution! And guess what? Didn't the devs reduce the price a while ago? Hmm maybe that helps you!!!! Why don't you take advantage of that?????!!!!! Don't say there aren't any, that is no longer true. And it really doesn't cost too much, you should be able to earn a lot more than that in a month, AND have a lot more FUN WITHOUT DRUGGING AND SAVE MONEY ON DRUGS by playing drug free battles!!!! 

 

THAT WOULD BE SO MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE IN IMPROVING YOUR GAMEPLAY THAN COMPLAINING ABOUT DRUGS BEING OP WOULDN'T IT 

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

THAT WOULD BE SO MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE IN IMPROVING YOUR GAMEPLAY THAN COMPLAINING ABOUT DRUGS BEING OP WOULDN'T IT 

The prices did come down but we've had high rank players complaining here that they don't want to spend 5000 on a pass. I think that is just an excuse though.

 

Assuming players do not have 5k crystals saved (but they all do), 5k would take a little time to earn, let us 5 hours maximum - let us say these are just casual gamers who play on average for an hour per day, there is still 25 days left on the pass to use and play the type of games they enjoy most which should be pure profit.

 

There is always an excuse of some kind not to go down the PRO pass route.  In the end, they just say they've explained it 100 times but I'm yet to see a proper list of pros and cons. Maybe someone can do this. Any takers?

 

As you said, there are loads of PRO pass holders now. Far more than there used to be. Can't move for them these days! I can't tell you how many times I've joined a non-drug battle by mistake!

 

Devs have bent over backwards to implement all kinds of things that have been helpful to the f2p/non-drugger cause. I think now is the time these players start helping themselves.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

I have always been a strong advocate that drug free games should be an option for everyone, not just to those with pro passes. That is one point that I will strongly agree with you about. I think it is really unfair for those who don't want to spend for supplies or don't want to use them are being forced to spend for the right to play non-supply games. I've always said if they would only make that option freely available to all, then most of the controversy over the use of Supplies would disappear. As to whether or not it should be the default setting is a completely different discussion. Either way it should be an option that all should have. Everyone should be able to pick what kind of Battle they want to play. Having a pro pass should just give you the ability to have even more options to fine tune the battles.

I agree with this 100%. :) Trust me, if the battle button created no-supply and supply-battles half-and-half, almost all would stop complaining. Those that wouldn't, would just be exposing their lack of common sense. ;)]

In addition, although this is a bit off-topic, I do think that by now, there are so many options for PRO battles that there should be two tiers of PRO passes, each with it's own unlock-able content, or at least a "drugs-off" Pass that allows you to do nothing but create standard, drugs-off battles. :)

 

Thank you for your understanding in this matter. As you are rather new to this thread I would like to keep this as civil as possible between us. Let's not start some altercations. Have a nice day! :)

[Gabe2607 499]

The prices did come down but we've had high rank players complaining here that they don't want to spend 5000 on a pass. I think that is just an excuse though.

 

Assuming players do not have 5k crystals saved (but they all do), 5k would take a little time to earn, let us 5 hours maximum - let us say these are just casual gamers who play on average for an hour per day, there is still 25 days left on the pass to use and play the type of games they enjoy most which should be pure profit.

 

There is always an excuse of some kind not to go down the PRO pass route.  In the end, they just say they've explained it 100 times but I'm yet to see a proper list of pros and cons. Maybe someone can do this. Any takers?

 

As you said, there are loads of PRO pass holders now. Far more than there used to be. Can't move for them these days! I can't tell you how many times I've joined a non-drug battle by mistake!

 

Devs have bent over backwards to implement all kinds of things that have been helpful to the f2p/non-drugger cause. I think now is the time these players start helping themselves.

I agree that 5K are "peanuts" for a PRO pass, at least at my level (frankly I do not recall how it was at initial levels).

 

But returning to "reduce/nerf drugs", reasons are others. Between them a better "welcome" to new users which would find an easier "entrance" to the game if they are not blown away by "experienced" players using their stock against them. With a less "brutal" school (less powerful drugs or no drugs in basic battles) I would expect new users to stick around longer and eventually get in drugging battles later on. And I would not think that new users will easily or automatically understand they should go into PRO battles. Let's remember that every game requires new users all time.

 

A second reason, still related to users below GIsmo, is the fact we argued a lot: can a free player be competitive with buyers? For sure not if the free user plays for an hour every day. Daily missions provide 20/25 drugs which the average drugger consumes in one 15 minutes battle. I do recognize that it is right for buyers to have an advantage. I just do not agree that this advantage got to be double damage + double armor, +30% SB plus mines and +100% health. +20% would still be an advantage, but obviously from a buyer point of view, the more the better.

 

A third reason is in case PRO battles will return to have low traffic, which I understand (but I was not around) was the case when this Topic started. If they keep up in January I will join PRO battles too.

 

The above just represents my opinion. Not saying I am right, you are wrong. Just my opinion. 

[Gabe2607 499]

It was as peanut as today since it cost 5000 crystals :lol:

I also do not remember how easy was to make 5000 crystals (or whatever smaller amount they got to pay now)... but that was my only line Off Topic and I would prefer not to discuss PRO pass in detail here.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

I just do not agree that this advantage got to be double damage + double armor, +30% SB plus mines and +100% health. +20% would still be an advantage, but obviously from a buyer point of view, the more the better.

20%? The demographic that buys supplies would be cut drastically and a large proportion of players would move to pro-battles and what effect would that have on TO's bottom line? Supplies are a staple here and cutting their power would not go down well with AP's shareholders.

 

You can't just pluck numbers out of thin air and say this will work! You have to think bigger than that. I've always said that if you want to suggest something, you have to do it a way that will not cost TO anything and if you an make them money in the process while keeping things fair and simple - great!

 

One such example of this is this

 

 

I would prefer not to discuss PRO pass in detail here.

It's an integral component when discussing supplies. It's not off the table here.

[Gabe2607 499]

20%? The demographic that buys supplies would be cut drastically and a large proportion of players would move to pro-battles and what effect would that have on TO's bottom line? Supplies are a staple here and cutting their power would not go down well with AP's shareholders.

 

You can't just pluck numbers out of thin air and say this will work! You have to think bigger than that. I've always said that if you want to suggest something, you have to do it a way that will not cost TO anything and if you an make them money in the process while keeping things fair and simple - great!

 

One such example of this is this

 

 

It's an integral component when discussing supplies. It's not off the table here.

Again, personal opinions. The +20% could (I use conditional because reaction is unknown) also force druggers to use more drugs and therefore more income. But also income is "a number out of thin air" as we do not have access to the Balance Sheets of TO, and we do not know how much drugs mean financially to them. I still assume AP gets or should get income from ads, but income is possibly Off Topic.

 

Your Drugger Tax (again, just my opinion) is nice in concept but I do not see it working. Main goal of most is simply to kill and/or win battles, without caring (during the "fight") much about experience points and/or crystals (of course at the end of the battle is nice to see high numbers). It could be applied and I will be happy if it works, but if I have to bet...

 

Concerning PRO Pass, the only integral component is "Traffic" (number and choice of battles), since I agreed that cost should not be a problem for most. Also I do not see a new user understanding from Day One that he would be better off to buy a PRO Pass, once he survives the drugging in standard battles.

 

PS.: but most explanations in your Drugging Tax are absolutely right... you almost sound one of us there... (just a joke, please no flaring from here).

[dan146_tanker 770]

I would like all of you to take note of the fact that harsher consequences will follow for every player that continues to go off topic and/or resorts to personal insults and provocations from now on. Also, please do not respond to players who continue to do so, as it will only cause more off topic posts and more provocations. 

Keep discussing supplies, why they're good or bad, what the problems with them are and how things can be made better for everyone, ideas are welcome.

 

Thank you.

Please excuse this post, but don't you think this topic should get closed. This topic has discussed supplies since 2015. Discussing supplies here would be pointless. Unless the developers of this game are willing to come to this topic and take in our suggestions what is the point of this topic? Not only has it be ignored, but if it is a discussion shouldn't it belong in the game discussion?

There is nothing more to discuss about supplies and if this topic doesn't get closed then it will just cause arguments.

 

(Btw, sorry for going off topic)

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

 if this topic doesn't get closed then it will just cause arguments.

:mellow:

[Gabe2607 499]

Please excuse this post, but don't you think this topic should get closed. This topic has discussed supplies since 2015. Discussing supplies here would be pointless. Unless the developers of this game are willing to come to this topic and take in our suggestions what is the point of this topic? Not only has it be ignored, but if it is a discussion shouldn't it belong in the game discussion?

There is nothing more to discuss about supplies and if this topic doesn't get closed then it will just cause arguments.

 

Obviously I am not Cooper and do not want to give the wrong impression, but talking about the Topic, you have been ON Topic :) .

 

I know for sure that drugs are discussed at high level continuously. In this Topic there are some Ideas and Suggestions. They may never be applied, but it does not mean we should refrain from offering them.

 

Arguments should be allowed, as long they are on topic and not offending (this is up to the Mods to judge and eventually punish).

 

For example I find strange none says: "actually I would like to increase power of garage supplies" so much and for xxx reasons"... B)

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Hey I have a new astoundingly intelligent idea!!!!!!!!!!! ...

I think this was said already, albeit slightly better, many times by others. :lol:

[basenji7 1,199]

I think this was said already, albeit slightly better, many times by others. :lol:

Lol of course it's been said a lot (and perhaps my method of saying it was slightly unconventional but it got the point across, did it not?). There is no good reason not to simply play PRO battles. If you find that I am incorrect in saying this please do correct me. 

 

Unless you can give a solution that will directly increase the devs' income, they aren't going to implement it. Whether supplies are OP or not is inconsequential to what will actually occur. If you want to continue to complain I have no problem with it - you are correct in some ways - but do realize that it very likely will not make much of a difference. 

[Dliver 436]

Please excuse this post, but don't you think this topic should get closed. This topic has discussed supplies since 2015. Discussing supplies here would be pointless. Unless the developers of this game are willing to come to this topic and take in our suggestions what is the point of this topic? Not only has it be ignored, but if it is a discussion shouldn't it belong in the game discussion?

There is nothing more to discuss about supplies and if this topic doesn't get closed then it will just cause arguments.

 

(Btw, sorry for going off topic)

I would have to agree with this sentiment. Going back through the posts I see nothing new really has been said in a very long time. Even many of the points I have made have been brought out before. Just face it gentlemen and women, supplies make money for tanki. Tanki needs money to operate. So ie. until you come up with a solution that replaces that income nothing is going to change except for maybe some minor tweaks like you saw with mines and cool down conflicts.

 

The last major change took place when they put into effect cool down rules that reduced the number of drugs that you personally could activate yourself at one time to put a stop to the horrendous drug wars that went on years ago and that many of you never experienced. If you think it is bad now you should have been around then when you could basically activate all your drugs at one time. I went through it and maybe that is the reason why I am content with the current system because it fixed so many of the problems that existed back then.

 

Yes this topic has been beaten to death. The lines are drawn and nothing new is being said. Maybe Cooper0 should close it and fold it into another topic. Unless he chooses to keep it open so that some unruly children are kept occupied and out of trouble in a forgotten corner. LOL

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Again, personal opinions.

No, it's a fact. No point in buying them if they only give you a tiny advantage.  Nerfing the power means a price reduction. Making them easily affordable will result in saturating the place with supplies. Everyone will have them and with everyone having them, what's the point in them? Players might as well just switch to no-supplies as I said.

 

 

The +20% could also force druggers to use more drugs and therefore more income.

Not a chance. I'd be switching straight away to no supplies battles and then probably leave the game before I died of boredom. 

 

 

but income is possibly Off Topic.

Give it a rest will you with your pathetic off topic nonsense.  It's annoying. You're not a mod so kindly stop policing contributors. It's not your job ok? I've associated it to supply use in my posts so it's on topic. I repeat, give it a rest already. Thanks kindly bro, mate - pal!

 

 

Your Drugger Tax (again, just my opinion) is nice in concept but I do not see it working. Main goal of most is simply to kill and/or win battles, without caring (during the "fight") much about experience points and/or crystals (of course at the end of the battle is nice to see high numbers). It could be applied and I will be happy if it works, but if I have to bet...

You've not understood it if you're saying this. The more supply-users use, the more of the battle fund goes away from them. It makes the player ask, do I really need to use supplies in any given situation. I know it would stop be using in certain circumstances and that is a fact.  But I've stopped caring whether it gets implemented or not and I really don't care what anyone thinks of it any more.  The suggestion involves working through the math and most players cannot be bothered with that.

 

 

PS.: but most explanations in your Drugging Tax are absolutely right... you almost sound one of us there... (just a joke, please no flaring from here).

I was making the argument for players here because I didn't see them suggesting anything sensible, imo of course. 

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

The last major change took place when they put into effect cool down rules that reduced the number of drugs that you personally could activate yourself at one time to put a stop to the horrendous drug wars that went on years ago and that many of you never experienced. If you think it is bad now you should have been around then when you could basically activate all your drugs at one time.

[Gabe2607 499]

I would have to agree with this sentiment. Going back through the posts I see nothing new really has been said in a very long time. Even many of the points I have made have been brought out before. Just face it gentlemen and women, supplies make money for tanki. Tanki needs money to operate. So ie. until you come up with a solution that replaces that income nothing is going to change except for maybe some minor tweaks like you saw with mines and cool down conflicts.

 

The last major change took place when they put into effect cool down rules that reduced the number of drugs that you personally could activate yourself at one time to put a stop to the horrendous drug wars that went on years ago and that many of you never experienced. If you think it is bad now you should have been around then when you could basically activate all your drugs at one time. I went through it and maybe that is the reason why I am content with the current system because it fixed so many of the problems that existed back then.

 

Yes this topic has been beaten to death. The lines are drawn and nothing new is being said. Maybe Cooper0 should close it and fold it into another topic. Unless he chooses to keep it open so that some unruly children are kept occupied and out of trouble in a forgotten corner. LOL

This is "reduce power" not "eliminate Drugs". Tweaks are welcome. All kind.

 

I do not see it properly to discuss TO income here (Off Topic, lack of information, etc.). I am obviously Off Topic (and probably not minding my own business) saying "Ads on Drop Boxes and on scenography would replace drug money" :ph34r:

 

Then if some users want to have a Topic proposing Ideas, I do not see why to close it. Hope will never die :)

[Gabe2607 499]

No, it's a fact. No point in buying them if they only give you a tiny advantage.  Nerfing the power means a price reduction. Making them easily affordable will result in saturating the place with supplies. Everyone will have them and with everyone having them, what's the point in them? Players might as well just switch to no-supplies as I said.

 

 

Not a chance. I'd be switching straight away to no supplies battles and then probably leave the game before I died of boredom. 

 

 

Give it a rest will you with your pathetic off topic nonsense.  It's annoying. You're not a mod so kindly stop policing contributors. It's not your job ok? I've associated it to supply use in my posts so it's on topic. I repeat, give it a rest already. Thanks kindly bro, mate - pal!

 

 

You've not understood it if you're saying this. The more supply-users use, the more of the battle fund goes away from them. It makes the player ask, do I really need to use supplies in any given situation. I know it would stop be using in certain circumstances and that is a fact.  But I've stopped caring whether it gets implemented or not and I really don't care what anyone thinks of it any more.  The suggestion involves working through the math and most players cannot be bothered with that.

 

 

I was making the argument for players here because I didn't see them suggesting anything sensible, imo of course. 

A fact should be proved. Till then they are just opinions, both mine and yours.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Most of players who whine about druggers hate supplies because they simply can't afford them ;)

I know this is quite old but let me remind you that most of the players who like putting down non-druggers are those who CAN afford them. ;)

 

It goes both ways. However, I assure you: After I have gotten to the point where I can drug comfortably and afford supplies-kits regularly, I will still be opposed to the supplies system. I won't change my beliefs based on that. 

[Dliver 436]

I agree with this 100%. :) Trust me, if the battle button created no-supply and supply-battles half-and-half, almost all would stop complaining. Those that wouldn't, would just be exposing their lack of common sense. ;)]

In addition, although this is a bit off-topic, I do think that by now, there are so many options for PRO battles that there should be two tiers of PRO passes, each with it's own unlock-able content, or at least a "drugs-off" Pass that allows you to do nothing but create standard, drugs-off battles. :)

 

Thank you for your understanding in this matter. As you are rather new to this thread I would like to keep this as civil as possible between us. Let's not start some altercations. Have a nice day! :)

 

I always try to agree where agreement can be made and respectful when none can be found. Always seeking ways to find solutions when possible and peaceably persuade when solutions are hard to find.

[Dliver 436]

I'm glad we could agree that a simple solution to the question of whether to adjust supplies would be to just make available to all, free of charge, the right to choose between non-supply and supply allowed games.

[Dliver 436]

I'm glad we could agree that a simple solution to the question of whether to adjust supplies would be to just make available to all, free of charge, the right to choose between non-supply and supply allowed games.

This is not the complete post I made earlier. The parts that have been removed involved a post made by I_already_won  where he was asking me some off topic questions ( I will not discuss the content of those questions). His post, the quote I made of his post and the part where I refused to go off topic have been removed.

 

I'm posting this so that you can understand my post as it appears here, and to underscore how serious Cooper0 is right now about keeping the discussions nice and on topic.

[ll.xx.indian.xx.ll 69]

I just came across this post about me and though it was posted almost a year ago I would like to answer it. Yes I am a drugger. If you are not aware of it, the rules allow them. I play by the rules and will use every advantage I can get to win. I don't hack, I don't cheat or sabotage. I play by the rules. I even play non drug games when I can find them. I don't complain when I'm getting the crap knocked out of me because I joined a game with a bunch of noobs who can't find their backsides and were getting the crap knocked out of them. I joined their battle to try and help them have a more even game because the other team goes into a killing frenzy and  just pounds them into the ground.  Usually the other team just sits there and spawn kills  not giving the team they're playing any chance. So I join to give them that chance. I usually stay to the end of a game even at 6 to 1 odds (except when the other team spawn kills). So all I got to say is this - "If you don't like drugs, form non-drug battles, I'll be more than happy to play you there too, and probably beat the crap out of you too." So get over it. There are a lot of more serious problems in the game where people are cheating and ruining the game for honest players. Don't get your panties in a twist when someone uses the rules to their advantage and plays by those rules all the time.

No no,  you are a totally fair player . Nothing any problem is about you . Actual problem is in system . So we want to change this for everyone.

[dan146_tanker 770]

No no,  you are a totally fair player . Nothing any problem is about you . Actual problem is in system . So we want to change this for everyone.

System won't change.

[ll.xx.indian.xx.ll 69]

System won't change.

If never change then it's a little bad for this game , if change then it will be happen more balance between buyers and nonbuyers . Thats good and developers also who want balance in Tanki Online. They actually want more players to play in Tanki Online rather than some few huge buyers .