Reduce power of garage supplies

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

Supplies should be Mirco-Upgradable

lol, that will be the next thing they introduce... for a price of course! :lol:

[Milaniser 25]

Literally, there are tons, if not milions of ideas on how to make the game fairer, better, more balanced etc, many of them here in this topic, many of them on other topics that include supply - debates.

Once and for all, lets just cut the "you need skill for drugging too" crap. I mean, that is just an argument that a 12 year old kid would say. 

How on earth can you call something like hitting buttons a skill? 

If everyone is drugging in the battle then you are the same, so you still rely on your original skills. But like it is in the most cases(over 95% of the time), if 3 hardcore druggers that join lets say Rio,Kungur,Serpuhov,Noise,Polygon (approximately 8v8, 10v10 battles), most often against non drugged opposing team, the scenario is :

Two of the druggers go and get the flag killing 3 people each (half of the team), and then use repair kit and could kill 2 more each. No matter what the weapon is. You can be the biggest vulcan noob, with DD and DA you can kill 3/4 close ranged weapons easily without using Z or X buttons. 

You can be the biggest shaft noob, with DA and DD no-one can do anything to you. Also thunder(not when close ranged), freeze,hammer, isida or pretty much any other weapon(more or less) except for rails(which are not that OP with drugs). As I said before, it is like a GTA with cheats (with every freaking weapon, armor and health), and the non druggers are pedestrians. Nothing much. It is litterally the same.

If they want to make money out of supplies it is fine with me, but being able to kill 6 people just by hitting the 3 button, it just makes you waaaaaaaaaay OP than it should.

If your whole team wants to kill the druggers that go get the flag, then the other (non-drugging) opposing players come to your base and kill you, that is when the famous "wait-to-spawn-and-kill-em-all" effect comes along. All that cause of the 2-3-4 druggers mentioned before. And then the game is ruined, it ends 10-0 for the drugging team, in just like 4-minutes, of which 1-2 minutes is just "dont cap, lets gain more xp kinda noob thing" 

Cause lets be honest, rarely which drugger chooses to join a drug war, they look for the battles that have no or little drugs involved, so they could win easily and not sweat too much for the winning crystals.

Many kids play this game, and they should not be spoiled. They need to learn that many things in life come with hard work and dedication. 

I mean, what kind of  grown up people will they be if they are given the easier way in stuff. And that is the kind of lession TO gives to them.

Such a shame.

[AlphaNinjaGirl 537]

How on earth can you call something like hitting buttons a skill? 

To be completely honest (and I know I'm running this argument into the bricks here, but) the entire game revolves around you hitting the right buttons at the right time. Driving to the right spot at the right time, firing at the right time, turning your turret the right amount, all done by pressing buttons (unless you use mouse controls, but... nobody really does).

 

You can't just judge people's skill level because they press buttons, because nearly everything you do on a computer requires you to press buttons. What, are programmers dumb just because they know how to press buttons?

 

The truth is, since I've started to drug a bit more (mostly out of necessity, but also in some specific drug-war battles), I realize that it does take a certain amount of finesse to get the right drugs at the right time. Unless you get lucky and find three pickup boxes close by (which does happen sometimes), you'll need to drug to get the full advantage, and that means monitoring your cooldowns and (yes) pressing the right button at the right time. Just like everything else.

 

I still don't like drugging, since a lot of people have more drugs than I do (mostly through buying), and I still HATE the fact that things like the DA/RK and DD/RK combo exist, but at least I understand why druggers are super defensive about their play style.

 

(Because it's freaking overpowered as freak).

[ghost-guns 1,486]

The only time drugs require skill is when it's generalissimo vs generalissimo.

 

Every battle below this level is grossly unbalanced which is why the game is empty. One team will have superior tanks and more drugs.

 

Without drugs you are nothing in this game. MU are also a waste of time. My tank is 25/50 and it's a sitting duck without armor supplies!

[dan146_tanker 770]

The only time drugs require skill is when it's generalissimo vs generalissimo.

 

Every battle below this level is grossly unbalanced which is why the game is empty. One team will have superior tanks and more drugs.

 

Without drugs you are nothing in this game. MU are also a waste of time. My tank is 25/50 and it's a sitting duck without armor supplies!

I agree with you, apart from one thing. Even if you are generalissimo you don't need drugs to win. You rely purely on your M3s. And if you don't have M3s then that's probably cause you waste your crystals on supplies. But MU isn't a waste. Instead of upgrading your hull upgrade your protection. Trust me it helps. Also upgrade your turret cause you need strong attack as well as defence. Upgrade your M3 and M0 fully and only upgrade the rest half way or full way if there is a sale. Cause if you don't upgrade your tank will be weak in battle. And unless you upgrade your tank more than once or twice it is a sitting duck. Buy protections that hold protection against 3 turrets. Or just see which turret is the most annoying/strongest in battle and get protection against that turret. Press R and V in battles if the turrets have lots of upgrades get lots of upgrades on your protection. Then you just need to use your skills or get skills and develop them. If that isn't too hard for you than get out there and win (without drugs) !!! ;)

[dan146_tanker 770]

Sorry, but I don't think performance in a 1v1 battle is the standard that should be used to measure whether someone has skill or not, especially considering this is mainly a team game...amusing comment though.

 

Wrong. This is a game for both relying on team skills or if you go to dm mode relying on your own skills. I mean come on it even says it in the loading bar while you wait to go to battles ;)

[dan146_tanker 770]

 

You say that a drugger has developed the ability to know when they can get most advantage out of their drugs in order to help their team, yet say it's not the same as developing other required battle skills...I would argue that they're both worth learning.

 

You are wrong again. I never said it requires REAL skill. In fact I never even said it requires fake skill. I just said that the drugger figured out how to use his supplies. I know how to use them too. Press 1 for repair 2 for armor 3 for double damage 4 for speed and 5 for mine. Pressing those requires absolutely 0 skill. And only one if them is worth learning. The bit about the REAL skill (no supplies). I know its hard but try getting some real skills maybe go to XP/BP battles, it helps.

 

 

 

 

 

It's Okay to get OP pick-ups, but not use the OP drugs from a supplies kit??even if a player earned in battle every crystal they used to buy the kit....whereas a pick-up could be gained through either map knowledge or pure luck.

 

Yes. pickups are for everyone and they fall fairly. They require skill to get them. I don't see how you don't know the difference between your own supplies and boxes..... -_-. Supplies: You get healed unfairly. If you are a buyer you have m2 twins and still use supplies (unfair which shows ​Devs rewarding buyers but not free players). And also it might be luck but its usually mostly skill. As you said you need to know the map. But if that's a problem fight in maps you like.

 

 

 

I earned my stripes slogging it out with a Mammoth/Rico combo while not using purchased drugs, which earned me the equipment and drugs I'm currently using. You seem to think Railgun is the skill turret, others have a very different opinion of Railgun. It's just a matter of opinion on what turret requires the most skill. Besides, XP/BP is just another game mode the same as drug wars is, it appeals to some and not others. Maybe I should start complaining about XP/BP mode as it serves no purpose to me or I haven't got the necessary purchasable equipment needed for it.

 

The reason I think railgun is a skilled turret is because it is. Not anyone can use it. It takes skill. It even has XP/BP battles as you said which require skill. It makes you more aware of things in battles and strike quietly to take out enemies.  

[Milaniser 25]

AlphaNinjaGirl , wow... Typing it like that makes me scared lol :D

 

I would say that in every game ever invented "skill" is defined by the thing you do in a few seconds(or any short period of time given the gameplay), TO not being an exception. You earn and learn that by experience.

And, I can agree that drugging SOMETIMES takes skill and knowledge, given the circumstances. But that only occures in drug wars, when the players of the opposing team drug equally.

Don't tell me that if u have an m2 drugging tank playing at m1 battle(like many of the kids do) against opposing team that arent druggers, takes skill.

My 6 year old niece can make a positive d/l with any combo out there fully drugged against anyone in that kinda situation.

[ghost-guns 1,486]

I agree with you, apart from one thing. Even if you are generalissimo you don't need drugs to win. You rely purely on your M3s. And if you don't have M3s then that's probably cause you waste your crystals on supplies. But MU isn't a waste. Instead of upgrading your hull upgrade your protection. Trust me it helps. Also upgrade your turret cause you need strong attack as well as defence. Upgrade your M3 and M0 fully and only upgrade the rest half way or full way if there is a sale. Cause if you don't upgrade your tank will be weak in battle. And unless you upgrade your tank more than once or twice it is a sitting duck. Buy protections that hold protection against 3 turrets. Or just see which turret is the most annoying/strongest in battle and get protection against that turret. Press R and V in battles if the turrets have lots of upgrades get lots of upgrades on your protection. Then you just need to use your skills or get skills and develop them. If that isn't too hard for you than get out there and win (without drugs) !!! ;)

That's what I've done. I basically have viking "m3.5". Like I say, it is still weak without supplies. A drugging hammer can kill me in two shots, isida in the blink of an eye and don't get me started on shaft... Everyone at my rank has m3 and they all love drugging.

 

I would have liked irbis but they took it out of the game now.

[AlphaNinjaGirl 537]

Sorry, but I don't think performance in a 1v1 battle is the standard that should be used to measure whether someone has skill or not, especially considering this is mainly a team game...amusing comment though.

I actually agree... I main Isida, and as such I have a low K/D (ok, it's not THAT low, but it used to be higher). A high K/D does not equal skill... most likely it means that someone's either a heavy drugger or a camping sniper.

 

Point is, I suck at DM battles and 1v1 battles, because my play style revolves around keeping other tanks alive and helping them capture objectives, such as flags and control points (which is why I also don't play TDM that much). So while I may not own someone in an XP/BP 1v1, on a 8v8 or 10v10 I'm often the MVP because of how much healing I can put out.

 

It's Okay to get OP pick-ups, but not use the OP drugs from a supplies kit??even if a player earned in battle every crystal they used to buy the kit....whereas a pick-up could be gained through either map knowledge or pure luck.

The biggest issue I have with this is the fact that pickups are supposed to be powerful, because you (usually) have to go out of your way to get them. It's a trade-off; you either attack whatever objective head-on, or you pick up boxes before attacking, giving the other team extra time. It makes for a more dynamic and fun game.

 

Drugs throw that whole concept out the window though, allowing anyone to activate any supply at almost any time, and thus lessening the power of the pickup boxes.

 

Think of games like MOBA's. You can rush the enemy base with no powerups at all, or you can collect gold or build towers or collect powerups to give your team an upper hand. It'd be unfair if you could just "huzzah" those things into existence just because you're a payed player.

 

Don't tell me that if u have an m2 drugging tank playing at m1 battle(like many of the kids do) against opposing team that arent druggers, takes skill.

A lot of druggers don't mean to drug specifically to target lower-tiered players. I found out while playing in DM battles that if I can't beat a certain opponent (most likely because they're drugging), that drugging myself makes me an unstoppable force as well. After drug-killing whatever opponent, I squash anyone else who comes at me, simply because I'm fully drugged for those 15 seconds.

 

Now there ARE people out there that are so skill-less that they have to use drugs with an M2 tank to beat M1's, and that's just sad... but it's also kinda rare.

 

This is typical of anyone that has a favoured turret, everyone thinks their turret requires the most skill to use. Just look at the topics for each turret in game discussion.

To be fair, I did use Firebird quite a bit in my early career, and while it was my favorite turret, everyone knows that Firebird is easy to use.

 

(Also, doesn't him defending Railgun sound a bit like you defending drugs? XD)

[AlphaNinjaGirl 537]

That's what I've done. I basically have viking "m3.5". Like I say, it is still weak without supplies. A drugging hammer can kill me in two shots, isida in the blink of an eye and don't get me started on shaft... Everyone at my rank has m3 and they all love drugging.

 

I would have liked irbis but they took it out of the game now.

Microupgrades don't seem to do a lot, but they actually do quite a bit. I can 1-shot Hornet M0's with my souped-up M1 Rail, and tank 3 M1 Rail shots with my M2 (M1+) Wasp. You can't just upgrade randomly, you've got to set a specific goal.

 

On an alternate account, I wanted to be able to 2-shot M0 Wasps with M0 Thunder. I figured out how many upgrades I'd need, reached that goal, and stopped. Now I'm happily blasting away Wasps from long range. :3

[AlphaNinjaGirl 537]

:o  ;)

:blush:

 

As I said, I don't see the difference in drops and purchasable supplies. Don't get me wrong here, I'm in favour of both...but if you're against one, you should really be against the other as they both give huge boosts to your tank. 

Both are overpowered, and I don't think supply drops should be nerfed. But supplies are far more fair, because there's an even distribution of them on all maps, and you have to be in a certain spot at a certain time to activate them. Drugs can be activated wherever, whenever, thus making them far more powerful.

 

Plus, if you're a buyer, you usually have more drugs than non-buyers. Again, while supplies are evenly distributed between all players, drugs can be purchased, meaning that it's unlikely for a free player to become a heavy drugger.

 

(And I know the whole "buy a drug kit" is an argument, but profitable drug kits aren't available at all ranks. Remember, most of the players in Tanki aren't Generallissimo's)

 

It is easy to use, whether that translates into higher XP is another matter that depends on ability. You know as an isida user that maneuvering your tank into a position where it can cause damage or get a flag/point before it gets owned by a long-ranger is not that easy. It's good in short maps but any bigger maps and firebird is a liability if not used properly.

The reason that I made this account was actually to test my tanki "ninja" skills (hence the name). It's really easy to sneak up behind someone and gently warm their buttocks with a Firebird... a bit too easy for my taste, in fact. I prefer being more supportive and less... maniacal.  ^_^

 

(Seriously, my K/D was through the roof before I switched to Isida)

[ghost-guns 1,486]

Another player leaves because of the unbalanced battles

 

[basenji7 1,199]

As I said, I don't see the difference in drops and purchasable supplies. Don't get me wrong here, I'm in favour of both...but if you're against one, you should really be against the other as they both give huge boosts to your tank. Some drops are out of the way but a lot aren't..in fact many drop-zones are in a very convenient place that pretty much guides you to the enemy base, Serpuhov and Kungur for example. But I take your point.

The problem here is that free players have a trade-off - some people prefer to buy drugs, some people buy new turrets and/or hulls, and others MU their existing hulls. All this requires crystals, so although more skilled people tend to earn more crys, in general when someone has more drugs, for example, they tend to have a less varied garage that is less MUd than other people their rank. All of this does increase crystal earning, so it is a choice for how to go about it. I have no problem with this, (don't know about Alpha).

 

Buyers, however, can gain all these advantages over free players, and the most noticeable (it seems) is that they can afford to drug a lot while still having very OP equipment. Drugging is not inherently bad, but many people (including Alpha, I gather) think that the advantage buyers gain from drugs is far too much for the game to be balanced well.

 

Drops are actually very different from drugs in terms of strategy - both do, however, require some level of skill. 

It [firebird] is easy to use, whether that translates into higher XP is another matter that depends on ability. You know as an isida user that maneuvering your tank into a position where it can cause damage or get a flag/point before it gets owned by a long-ranger is not that easy. It's good in short maps but any bigger maps and firebird is a liability if not used properly.

There are turrets which are easier to use, and fire's one of them. However, developing mastery of the turret is another subject completely. It's also true, as you said, that there are situations in which short-ranged turrets are not a particularly good choice. Fire's actually not the worst on long ranged maps - if it can manage to infiltrate the enemy base, as it can do relatively easily on maps with more cover, it can destroy everything in sight. 

 

As for the bit in brackets...true, point taken...he's still slating one game mode and singing the praises of another that you have to buy or earn your way into though, but that's a separate issue.

XP/BP is a game mode which requires a lot of skill, and which many people enjoy. However, I think Dan is wrong is stating that drugs require absolutely no skill besides pressing a button. 

[basenji7 1,199]

Both are overpowered, and I don't think supply drops should be nerfed. But supplies are far more fair, because there's an even distribution of them on all maps, and you have to be in a certain spot at a certain time to activate them. Drugs can be activated wherever, whenever, thus making them far more powerful.

 

 

 +

 

(And I know the whole "buy a drug kit" is an argument, but profitable drug kits aren't available at all ranks. Remember, most of the players in Tanki aren't Generallissimo's)

This is another issue - when you reach Gissimo and have nothing left to do, drugs are one thing to spend your crystals on. I'm guessing most of the players who complain about drugs are low to mid-rankers complaining because buyers are able to obtain large amounts of drugs and they aren't. However, by the time you reach Gissimo most people have a fair amount of drugs and so are able to drug back at the buyers. 

 

The reason that I made this account was actually to test my tanki "ninja" skills (hence the name). It's really easy to sneak up behind someone and gently warm their buttocks with a Firebird... a bit too easy for my taste, in fact. I prefer being more supportive and less... maniacal.   ^_^

...Isida comes up behind you and slowly drains out your life force while becoming stronger. It's a leech posing as a cute lil healer turret...I'd hardly call it less maniacal.  ;)  :P

[simonkid 9]

Wrong. This is a game for both relying on team skills or if you go to dm mode relying on your own skills. I mean come on it even says it in the loading bar while you wait to go to battles ;)

Balence Isida then

[cowdad2 8]

To be fair, I did use Firebird quite a bit in my early career, and while it was my favorite turret, everyone knows that Firebird is easy to use.

 

 

I've believed that before, and (with my tonnes of experiences with alts) I decided to try a fire-wasp account. When paired with wasp, hornet, or even hunter, firebird requires a decent amount of skill to use. Because you can't just charge up the middle lane, you have to rely on side roads and circle-strafing to perform well with it.

 

Summary: The turret itself is easy to use, it's how you maneuver the tank.

[AlphaNinjaGirl 537]

...Isida comes up behind you and slowly drains out your life force while becoming stronger. It's a leech posing as a cute lil healer turret...I'd hardly call it less maniacal.  ;)  :P

Have you ever actually used Isida? It used to be really easy to control, but now it's super hard to lock onto a target... even teammates. -.-

[Metaphor 538]

Have you ever actually used Isida? It used to be really easy to control, but now it's super hard to lock onto a target... even teammates. -.-

and the thing where an enemy gets point blank on your hull and the isida will show a white spark but not do damage.

[AlphaNinjaGirl 537]

and the thing where an enemy gets point blank on your hull and the isida will show a white spark but not do damage.

That's lag. Refresh your page. :P

 

Seriously though, Isida needs to have the same kind of arc effect that Firebird and Freeze have. It's way too hard to heal or attack with just a single, very-hard-to-control beam.

[Metaphor 538]

That's lag. Refresh your page. :P

 

Seriously though, Isida needs to have the same kind of arc effect that Firebird and Freeze have. It's way too hard to heal or attack with just a single, very-hard-to-control beam.

Meh, refreshing page is like a 50/50 chance solution for my laptop( 2004 Dell, yes ik it's lame :lol: ) Nah, can you imagine how OP that would be? You would no longer need a first aid because you would just be leeching all that regeneration hp...maybe if it were just for healing.

[basenji7 1,199]

Have you ever actually used Isida? It used to be really easy to control, but now it's super hard to lock onto a target... even teammates. -.-

-.- Never said it was easy to use...

 

Seriously though, Isida needs to have the same kind of arc effect that Firebird and Freeze have. It's way too hard to heal or attack with just a single, very-hard-to-control beam.

It is actually hard to control, especially when you're being circle-strafed by a light hull - it's hard to keep the beam on target. However, I think Isida with splash damage would be too OP since it would be able to both heal and attack enemies at the same time, and Isida groups would be practically indestructible. 

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

I agree with you, apart from one thing. Even if you are generalissimo you don't need drugs to win. You rely purely on your M3s. And if you don't have M3s then that's probably cause you waste your crystals on supplies.

My garage is m4 - complete! I also have a bunch of fully mu'd paints. Trust me when I say, you DO need drugs to win at .

I know I'm not the best player in tanki but I am no slouch either. Indestructible, lag cheating, hack using, drug, raider gangs are everywhere, clans too.  If you're not drugging in return then you're practically a mult.

 

On top of all that, you have to deal with Russians who get everything cheaper.

 

[AlphaNinjaGirl 537]

It is actually hard to control, especially when you're being circle-strafed by a light hull - it's hard to keep the beam on target. However, I think Isida with splash damage would be too OP since it would be able to both heal and attack enemies at the same time, and Isida groups would be practically indestructible. 

That's not what I meant. I just think that the Isida beam's range of motion should be equivalent to Firebird's or Freeze's, while still only using a single beam.

 

Just picture, if you will, the arc of Firebird's attack. Isida should be able to target and lock on to one tank inside that arc, and keep locked on easily.

 

Basically I just want the old Isida back, it controlled much easier.

 

Also, you could argue that drops are more powerful than drugs, because when you collect a drop you can immediately activate a drug to have 2 boosts....whereas with activating drugs you'd have to wait for cooldowns or try to get to another drop-zone.

This has been argued before, but I've not really seen it put into effect. Besides, in supply drop-only battles, if one team picks up all the supplies, there's still nowhere near enough to go around, and they're not quite as strong as you'd believe.

 

Take Serpuhov for example -- 3 DP, 6 DA, and 3 RK (speed isn't really THAT decisive). If there was a 10v10 fight and one team had all the supplies, that's not a massive advantage...

 

Also, you could argue that drops are more powerful than drugs, because when you collect a drop you can immediately activate a drug to have 2 boosts....whereas with activating drugs you'd have to wait for cooldowns or try to get to another drop-zone.

Yeah, I'mma have to call bull on that. That's like saying airsoft guns are more powerful than UZI's, since if you pick up an airsoft gun, you can dual-wield the airsoft gun and the UZI, whereas if you didn't, you'd only have the UZI.

 

Supplies plus drugs is a powerful combo, but in no realm of logic are supplies more powerful than drugs.

 

Buyers should have some advantage, but not too extreme as to be off-putting to new players of this game.

You're starting to sound a bit like me. :P

[omrot 2,327]

As I came to the realisation that the fight against drugs is useless, I found a simple solution. Purchase Railgun and a Hornet or a Wasp, get used to it, gain some skills and start enjoying drugless XP/BPs. Simple yet effective