Reduce power of garage supplies

[Baby_Sam 614]

unfortunately the only effective weapon against heavy-druggers was Freeze.

And now after the rebalance this weapon was altered into a bad Firebird copy.. only usefull for bump-in-and-shoot attacks (like all the beginners use to play).

 

Whatever.. now druggers are virtually unstoppable.

Previously, it was hopeless when you get attacked by freeze from behind, so you hope there is something in front of you that you can keep shooting at until you die--unless someone else somehow kills the freeze. Now, you turn around and attack.

 

They funny thing though is that I see mostly noobs using Fire and Freeze. I rarely see the circle attack anymore. Most people just stand in front of each other and keep pounding at each other until one dies! What's worse is that there are people that I kill every time we meet, and they just keep coming, standing still in front of me, and dying again.

 

That was an unplanned side effect of old freeze. In real life, you should solve problems head on, and there is no interest to solve this one.

[RustyNail 1,538]

I'd just like to give a counterexample to those who've said that without drugs the game would be boring. I played in a great 4v4 Sandbox CTF. We lost 7-5. But you know what? I felt like it was worth my fifteen minutes. Why? It was balanced, but the skills and situations each player was in created automatic imbalance, and drugs weren't a factor (except nitro). 

The teams were like this:

Blue team (mine):

Rail-Hornet M0

Rail-Hornet M1

Smoky-Hornet M1 and M0 (me)

Isida-Hunter M1 and M0

 

Red team:

Rail-Hornet M1-M0

Rail-Hornet M0

Rico-Hornet M0

Firebird-Hornet M1

 

Both sides got plenty of flag captures and several intense moments of one guy losing the flag and his teammate racing an enemy to it. Plenty of kills for all players except for the Isida-Hunter (which got several flag caps). Very fun. No drugs except nitro and drops. I found it vastly more interesting than a Silence CTF that was the same time limit and our team was just OP. We won by about 12-1. More like a ritual than anything: Spawn. Go to enemy base, killing the already weakened enemies in the way. Fight over who takes the flag next. Cap flag or make just unfair kills, finally get killed. Repeat. Sooo boring, even though I got about the same crystals (131).

I also felt the Sandbox was a much better test of everyone's skill, and I met a lot of great players.

I don't have a solution to the drug/buyer imbalance problem, though. But having read the first 14 pages of this topic, I can tell it's not winding down anytime soon.

Edit: I have to admit that I got the infinite supplies pass :P

That is what I point at, for some time.. not removing drugs altogether but the hollow joy of being OP, destroying opponents at respawn and getting a score of XX-0 or XX-2....

No joy / fun for such an unbalanced battle.

Battles should be fun either way (win or lose), not a desperate struggle for winning and getting as many crystals as posible... the later is bad for players mood and thus for Tanki itself.

 

p.s. didn't buy infinite supplies, and won't. I 'd rather not play this day than having to play the way I despise.

[kayitsiz 621]

Previously, it was hopeless when you get attacked by freeze from behind, so you hope there is something in front of you that you can keep shooting at until you die--unless someone else somehow kills the freeze. Now, you turn around and attack.

 

They funny thing though is that I see mostly noobs using Fire and Freeze. I rarely see the circle attack anymore. Most people just stand in front of each other and keep pounding at each other until one dies! What's worse is that there are people that I kill every time we meet, and they just keep coming, standing still in front of me, and dying again.

 

That was an unplanned side effect of old freeze. In real life, you should solve problems head on, and there is no interest to solve this one.

Unless some freezes are ramming you, so you won't be able to turn your hull

[T.O.T.A.L.W.A.R 581]

unfortunately the only effective weapon against heavy-druggers was Freeze.

By the way freeze was virtually non existent on the battle field on gissmo ranks before the nerf.

The Reason being top paints provide good protection against freeze already so it was a harmless weapon

Even before the nerf.

[r_priyangshu0 270]

This pass is just... ridiculous. I have been playing for the past 6 hours and not a single close battle, all are lopsided, you may say drugs can be used by everyone now, what is the problem? I'll tell you.

 

 

In general, druggers are seen as contemptuous and desperate individuals. Now that everyone is drugging, the best at drugging wins.

I was fed up with my rank battles, so I tried it on the lower ranks. Absolutely abominable idea. Today, the druggers don't rule, they dominate.

Anyone who has gotten used to drug usage can now dominate games, because the individuals who choose not to drug are left behind in the proper drug usage department. Today, it makes as much of a difference as skill. They (The developers) want us to suffer at the hands of 'skilled in drugging'

druggers. They have left behind the Turrets, Hulls, and Paints for us, to allow us to get them for some hope of being competitive. But with drugs, all of that makes no sense. They want to make the already better off people (druggers and buyers); better off, while making us the goats for their guns, as long as it makes them money. They want more better off people at the cost of the people who appreciate them and their decisions. They might as well make a new server with more expensive equipment with double the stats of normal equipment and leave the normal stats for us. Right now, the stats are boosted so often, there are rarely any people with normal stats anymore.

 

 

[Rohrmeister 1,535]

 

 

The key to fight back a freeze was driving forw/backw in right timing while turning.. and not only turning ;)

 

- In M0/M1 the freeze effect (slow down factor) was too strong so that the enemies have been lost.

- In M2 it was about ok.

- And in M3 the slow down factor was too weak, as the tanks/turrets could already turn so fast, that they could fight back freeze quite well.

^ This would have been a better point to adress balance.

 

With the new freeze you have to bump in to prevent them from turning.. like a noob :p

 

 

But whatever.. with the new freeze effect a drugger can simply ride away.

[Brubook 1,161]

this is correct. lol, even the topic creator, @Brubook has stopped commenting because he has given up on trying to get back on topic.

Hello fufu

Thank you for comment

 

I have not stopped commenting. On the silly posts I see prompt answer from more clever person, so I don't need to reply twice in the same way.

For the other posts, I am reading them with attention, as they focus on various aspects and come out with nice ideas of development. Maybe I agree with some of them and disagree with other, but the point is  always the same: making the game attractive, interesting and more satisfying for everyone. As I pointed out previously, it is satisfaction that increase the game "critical mass" of players and doing so, also the paying part of this mass is increased. Therefore both players and developers can be satisfied. The first appreciate playing, the second have a product to be proud of and that is also economically satisfying.

On fund distribution I thing I am satisfied bye the taking off of the 10crystals drops and the last rebalance of funds. Maybe something more could be done, but, as you said, this is not my main point. If I am satisfied in battle, I can also get less fund share in the end!

Again .... satisfaction and frustration prevention is the main point for me! And drugs rebalance or limitation or timing or relating them to win/loose situation is something that has to be done in the game!

[Brubook 1,161]

I'd just like to give a counterexample to those who've said that without drugs the game would be boring. I played in a great 4v4 Sandbox CTF. We lost 7-5. But you know what? I felt like it was worth my fifteen minutes. Why? It was balanced, but the skills and situations each player was in created automatic imbalance, and drugs weren't a factor (except nitro). 

The teams were like this:

Blue team (mine):

Rail-Hornet M0

Rail-Hornet M1

Smoky-Hornet M1 and M0 (me)

Isida-Hunter M1 and M0

 

Red team:

Rail-Hornet M1-M0

Rail-Hornet M0

Rico-Hornet M0

Firebird-Hornet M1

 

Both sides got plenty of flag captures and several intense moments of one guy losing the flag and his teammate racing an enemy to it. Plenty of kills for all players except for the Isida-Hunter (which got several flag caps). Very fun. No drugs except nitro and drops. I found it vastly more interesting than a Silence CTF that was the same time limit and our team was just OP. We won by about 12-1. More like a ritual than anything: Spawn. Go to enemy base, killing the already weakened enemies in the way. Fight over who takes the flag next. Cap flag or make just unfair kills, finally get killed. Repeat. Sooo boring, even though I got about the same crystals (131).

I also felt the Sandbox was a much better test of everyone's skill, and I met a lot of great players.

I don't have a solution to the drug/buyer imbalance problem, though. But having read the first 14 pages of this topic, I can tell it's not winding down anytime soon.

Edit: I have to admit that I got the infinite supplies pass :P

 

Hello Legolover3

Thanks for comment

 

This is another testimonial example of what many of us is saying/describing/explaining in this post. This is another practical proof that there are other values than drugs to make the game interesting.

Skills, strategy, teamwork

And finally this prove that it is not the mere winning that is the satisfying part of the game. As I also said many times, I can loose and be happy if I feel that my work is useful, my contribution is important in the battle, if I am part of the battle and not only a useless spectator that watch a win or a loss!!!

You also correctly pointed out that this discussion is not going to fade down, because it is something very important and should be appropriately taken care of.

 

Thank you for your contribution

B.

[Brubook 1,161]

Ok, that pass is just annoying. Everyone is drugging; the strategy is when to hit which of the first five numbers. It has officially ruined the game for the next 24 hours.

Another good point!

Todays test proves that as more players drug, the drugs themselves become useless, as the values are levelled. No advantage for anyone!

The only "advantage" become "when do I press numbers?" part. Quite sad!!

[Brubook 1,161]

This pass is just... ridiculous. I have been playing for the past 6 hours and not a single close battle, all are lopsided, you may say drugs can be used by everyone now, what is the problem? I'll tell you.

 

 

In general, druggers are seen as contemptuous and desperate individuals. Now that everyone is drugging, the best at drugging wins.

I was fed up with my rank battles, so I tried it on the lower ranks. Absolutely abominable idea. Today, the druggers don't rule, they dominate.

Anyone who has gotten used to drug usage can now dominate games, because the individuals who choose not to drug are left behind in the proper drug usage department. Today, it makes as much of a difference as skill. They (The developers) want us to suffer at the hands of 'skilled in drugging'

druggers. They have left behind the Turrets, Hulls, and Paints for us, to allow us to get them for some hope of being competitive. But with drugs, all of that makes no sense. They want to make the already better off people (druggers and buyers); better off, while making us the goats for their guns, as long as it makes them money. They want more better off people at the cost of the people who appreciate them and their decisions. They might as well make a new server with more expensive equipment with double the stats of normal equipment and leave the normal stats for us. Right now, the stats are boosted so often, there are rarely any people with normal stats anymore.

 

 

Hello priyangshu

Thanks for comment

 

As the concept of drug itself is, drugs are an easy way (or a shortcut) to get a better result of some performance (being courage in real life or more power on a week or unskilled tank).

 

Under an educational point of view, right now in Tanki we are telling 13 years old boys that if you pay (actually mama pays) you can get everything!

Apart the wrong idea of life that this cause, it is bad even for the game, because only skills and training give long term passion for the game. Drugging and winning and going through the game quicly, in the end give an annoying feeling and a need of change (leave Tanki).

In this way players are like fast rockets that come to tanki, play it all over in few months, get till the point they win easy .... and just give up after that!

This is quite bad to keep the "critical mass" I have always been talking about. Less critical mass, less paying percentage of it, less income for tanki in the medium-long period. Quite bad!

B.

[Brubook 1,161]

Basically, the difference between druggers and non-druggers has increased so much, it has become two different games ( each with their own stats) altogether.

The problem is that they both play in the same battles!! :)

[Legolover3 91]

I think the problem with "drugs" or supplies is that they amplify all skills/advantages. Since the buyers usually already have the better equipment, once they start drugging, they leave everyone in the dust, so there's a great disparity between them and even the most skilled non-drugger non-buyer.

[r_TIGER_BOY_20140 78]

your correct lots of tankionline players use druggs when there team is losing its so unfear

[beaku 2,656]

Okay... Bought the pass, played for 5 hours... And I have no idea why devs have done it. :mellow:

All I saw were skilled druggers and unskilled druggers getting addicted to drugging. Seriously, there is a difference between being skilled in using drugs and skills which are dependent on using drugs.

The first aid is probably more addicting than all the other drugs combined together. It actually destroys development of Tanker's skill.

I have been a drug user for long (Note that there is a difference between drug user and drugger) and I know how to wield their power. However, that does not render me useless without them. Many a times a saw people pressing 234, going on a mindless, killing spree for some 40 odd seconds and finding a place to hide until they can drug again. First aid severly affected many players' ability to keep their tank from damaging in the first place.

Unlimited drugs, though only for a day, IMO, will introduce many young, inexperience Tankers to drugging which will sabotage their future. They will WANT to drug more and more. They will spend crystals buying supplies kit.

I might be exaggerating but the point is, I really did not see even a single Advantage of this day. Maybe, it will gain Tanki potential buyers, but I don't think that such a slight increase was worth this day.

[Rohrmeister 1,535]

advantage of the day:

- druggers play a party

- non druggers are forced to use it to compete.. now they can.. so they get more used to using drugs

 

to sum it up:

- make everyone more and more addicted (as you already noticed)

- enable tanki to get more money in the weeks and months thereafter

 

(and I wish there would be an other cool source of income to tanki)

[FRITZECAT2014 33]

I'm entirely in agreement with Brubook and RustyNail. Addicts improvements are a wound to the spirit of this game. So much so that I left the battle quickly if i see abusive players. It might even make me quit this game yet i love. I have nothing against supplies and their uses (in moderation...) is strategic in crucial moments of the battle. But addicts spoil this strategic aspect. And cancel the skills and tactics of their opponents.

 

The proposed Brubook  (increase of power shoulds not be greater than the next upgrade parameters) is interesting. Thus a non-drugger retain its chance by opposing his technique.

 

The proposed RustyNail (perhaps one for whom I have a slight preference) is too. Indeed, limiting the numbers of drug uses (eg 5 for a battle of 15 mn + boxes) would generate 2 positives things :

1. Fair play (as destroying all his opponents in one shot with a supercharged weapon then immediatly return health to cancel the shooting that he may have had to time to launch during this small second, it obviously do not.... !)

2. Giving back to the strategy the main role in the victory :

- At what time I use this aid ? : at the beggining - to take a psychological advantage or end of the battle - to return a compromise situation, to help an ally in trouble or to make trouble in the opposing camp, or when I almost brought the flag and that a opponent arises....?

- And as I have only 5, wich I use ? : at this point of the battle rather the speed to catch a spinning opponent with the flag, at a different time of the battle firepower against a more shielded enemy.....

The different situations are many, choosing more appropriate and therefor more exciting, in contrast to continued use...

[Brubook 1,161]

Okay... Bought the pass, played for 5 hours... And I have no idea why devs have done it. :mellow:

All I saw were skilled druggers and unskilled druggers getting addicted to drugging. Seriously, there is a difference between being skilled in using drugs and skills which are dependent on using drugs.

The first aid is probably more addicting than all the other drugs combined together. It actually destroys development of Tanker's skill.

I have been a drug user for long (Note that there is a difference between drug user and drugger) and I know how to wield their power. However, that does not render me useless without them. Many a times a saw people pressing 234, going on a mindless, killing spree for some 40 odd seconds and finding a place to hide until they can drug again. First aid severly affected many players' ability to keep their tank from damaging in the first place.

Unlimited drugs, though only for a day, IMO, will introduce many young, inexperience Tankers to drugging which will sabotage their future. They will WANT to drug more and more. They will spend crystals buying supplies kit.

I might be exaggerating but the point is, I really did not see even a single Advantage of this day. Maybe, it will gain Tanki potential buyers, but I don't think that such a slight increase was worth this day.

If what you say is somehow correct, I hope in a different result of this DRUG DAY: drugger facing druggers shows how things re-equilibrate!

Many people today will get very annoyed by druggers, mostly by the one who already lost their fingerprints in pressing numbers, the ones that are already used (or "skilled", abusing the term) to use drugs. I think that also average drug users will be annoyed by this day.

I hope that many people will get disgusted by this drug abuse and come to our position (rebalance and reduce excessive drugs power, or somehow limit them in use or in time).

Let's remember that creativity is the key of growth, so devs can find out satisfying income alternative solution. Also in this discussion I saw some of them, like the billboards commercials for example. Drugs cannot be the main tanki income source ... not in this way, otherwise it will soon be the last income source too!!

[JamesLewisTX 62]

I'm extremely impressed with Brubook with the fact that he's managed to keep this topic active with replies from February 28th 2015. 

 

 

Keep this going for like 3 more weeks and you're getting 2 months worth of replies :P

[Brubook 1,161]

I'm extremely impressed with Brubook with the fact that he's managed to keep this topic active with replies from February 28th 2015. 

 

 

Keep this going for like 3 more weeks and you're getting 2 months worth of replies :P

Well ... thank you!

It is actually quite active, both in readings and replies.

Yet it is not my merit ... and it proves that the topic is interesting for many players ... and that should be make devs think somehow! :)

Maybe I am a dreamer, but I still hope that all this will make the effect of some brain storming somewhere in Tanki HQ!!

B.

[fufususumumu1 240]

Previously, it was hopeless when you get attacked by freeze from behind, so you hope there is something in front of you that you can keep shooting at until you die--unless someone else somehow kills the freeze. Now, you turn around and attack.

 

They funny thing though is that I see mostly noobs using Fire and Freeze. I rarely see the circle attack anymore. Most people just stand in front of each other and keep pounding at each other until one dies! What's worse is that there are people that I kill every time we meet, and they just keep coming, standing still in front of me, and dying again.

 

That was an unplanned side effect of old freeze. In real life, you should solve problems head on, and there is no interest to solve this one.

thats what happens when you get unlimited drugs! cuz who needs skill if you have drugs  :rolleyes:

[fufususumumu1 240]

 As I pointed out previously, it is satisfaction that increase the game "critical mass" of players and doing so, also the paying part of this mass is increased. Therefore both players and developers can be satisfied. The first appreciate playing, the second have a product to be proud of and that is also economically satisfying.

On fund distribution I thing I am satisfied bye the taking off of the 10crystals drops and the last rebalance of funds.

satisfaction and frustration prevention is the main point for me! 

 

I look at the point where both the players and developers are satisfied as an equilibrium... currently, because of the popularity, and their so called "rebalancing" they are making the game suit their interest only, and not the players only. and because of this, many players retaliate by giving their opinions on the forums, quitting the game, raging on druggers, drugging themselves, hacking, multing, not buying with real money etc. which are many ways the players voice out their unhappiness. but if the devs and tanki admins decide to do something about this, and make some sacrifices, then it will end up just like how you said it would. The first appreciate playing, the second have a product to be proud of and that is also economically satisfying.

[Brubook 1,161]

Another sad day in Tanki

 

Another druggers battle right now: a 15 min 8 vs 8 noise full of insane druggers on one side ... in less than 5 minutes it came to 8 vs 0 players!!! In other 2 minutes it came to 4 vs 0.

 

Is this satisfying?? I mean, is it satisfying for the "winning" part?? The last 4 vs 0 suggest the answer!

 

Let's start to do something, devs!!!

 

Another sad day in Tanki

[Opex-Rah 5,375]

The proposed RustyNail (perhaps one for whom I have a slight preference) is too. Indeed, limiting the numbers of drug uses (eg 5 for a battle of 15 mn + boxes) would generate 2 positives things

Who can guess why this is going to make it even worse?

[Baby_Sam 614]

Who can guess why this is going to make it even worse?

I disagree with this suggestion. I think drugs (DA and DD) should be nerfed to 50% or 30%.

 

Yesterday, it was hilarious because of the free drugs for all. I could not do anything with my Isida. I could not kill anyone because of the health packs and I could not heal anyone because of the same reason.

[Opex-Rah 5,375]

I disagree with this suggestion.

This is not what I asked  -_-