Reduce power of garage supplies

[r_Mr.Perfect.XXX0 1]

yeahh i know

if the loseing team 

 they all we use drugs to win its so fake tankionline the team dont use drugs have to get more points

drugger team will have to not get more crytals

[r_DidYouKnowThat0 1,662]

@Hazel-Rah:

" Non-buyers can win when they save-up or play it smart."

 

Uh, you can't really win if you play it smart when your enemy is drugging. :blink:

The dude has double armor/power with a health pack. That health pack heal is too powerful.

 

Unless when you say "play it smart," you mean just give up the battle, leave, and/or buy a PRO pass?

Probably that. :P

 

But still, drugs are so powerful.

 

And even if you do save up and get the same equipment, they still squash you with supplies.

Or if you buy drugs, then you'll probably never get better equipment. Not even counting MU's.

[beaku 2,656]

There are people who invest time.

They play for free and win by skill and tactics. Game benefits by bigger player base.

 

There are people who invest money.

They play with less skill, but can compete by more supplies in their disposal. Game benefits by income.

I have invested 2 years in the game and I can use more turrets relatively more skilfully than most of the players I play with. This gives me a huge edge over them.

I have invested 0$ in the game in I have over 2k of each supply. (And I use them a lot). Overall, with a good teamwork I dominate every battle.

However, even after this advantage, I lose many times because the opposite team starts displaying good teamwork and skill. Due to SCD, it is no longer possible for me to stop them all using all supplies.

So what you say is correct. After SCD, drugger/s cannot dominate a battle if opposite team uses supplies smartly (it doesn't require using more than 10 garage supplies if they use drops) and show teamwork and skill.

[beaku 2,656]

@Hazel-Rah:

" Non-buyers can win when they save-up or play it smart."

 

Uh, you can't really win if you play it smart when your enemy is drugging. :blink:

The dude has double armor/power with a health pack. That health pack heal is too powerful.

 

Unless when you say "play it smart," you mean just give up the battle, leave, and/or buy a PRO pass?

Probably that. :P

 

But still, drugs are so powerful.

 

And even if you do save up and get the same equipment, they still squash you with supplies.

Or if you buy drugs, then you'll probably never get better equipment. Not even counting MU's.

I partially disagree with you. I myself meet M2 Dictators who come with DA and after lot of hitting him, they just use first aid and become invincible again.

However, if the opposite team has 2-3 druggers, they can easily be put off by teamwork.

But, if enemies are having druggers and teamwork and better equipment, you know that it's time to leave.

[Opex-Rah 5,375]

But, if enemies are having druggers and teamwork and better equipment, you know that it's time to leave.

Why it should not be this way?  :huh:

[Opex-Rah 5,375]

And even if you do save up and get the same equipment, they still squash you with supplies.

Wait a minute. When I said "save-up" I meant "save-up some supplies", not "save-up some crystals".

You using them right away? What kind of a strategy is that?  :o

[RustyNail 1,538]

Yes.

 

Buyers can win every battle. Non-buyers can win when they save-up or play it smart. SCD made it fair enough and as I stated many time using supplies WILL NEVER BE REMOVED as it is integral part of the game pace and monetization.

 

There goes your direct answer.

Thanks.

I don't like it but at last we are on the same page. No more misunderstandings.

 

(it helped me take an important decision)

 

Edit: however, let me point out an oxymoron in what you said... if buyers CAN WIN EVERY BATTLE, then I can't win against them, no matter how skilled I am. So what you probably meant is "non-buyers can win when they save-up or play it smart, UNLESS they face a buyer. In that case, buyer wins"

[RustyNail 1,538]

I have invested 2 years in the game and I can use more turrets relatively more skilfully than most of the players I play with. This gives me a huge edge over them.

I have invested 0$ in the game in I have over 2k of each supply. (And I use them a lot). Overall, with a good teamwork I dominate every battle.

However, even after this advantage, I lose many times because the opposite team starts displaying good teamwork and skill. Due to SCD, it is no longer possible for me to stop them all using all supplies.

So what you say is correct. After SCD, drugger/s cannot dominate a battle if opposite team uses supplies smartly (it doesn't require using more than 10 garage supplies if they use drops) and show teamwork and skill.

Sorry dude, but after two years and still a First Liut, your gaming opinions are anything but reliable. I suggest you wander less in the forum and more in the battles.

[beaku 2,656]

Why it should not be this way? :huh:

Why are you asking?

[r_DidYouKnowThat0 1,662]

@Hazel-Rah: OH lol. I thought you meant save up and buy. :rolleyes:

I do save up. That's how I have like 500-600 supplies of Double Armor, Power, and Nitro, with like maybe 25 Health kits and 150 mines.

Too bad sometimes it's 1 drugger on a team vs. like 4-5 druggers on another team. That's when I just leave. :ph34r:

[ThouShallNot 963]

Hazel rah can you please give health packs more often in daily gifts please? because everytime i fight against a buyer he always wins due to health packs :(

[Baby_Sam 614]

Hazel rah can you please give health packs more often in daily gifts please? because everytime i fight against a buyer he always wins due to health packs :(

At your rank, you should consider buying the PRO pass and joining no-drugging battles. This option is becoming more and more appealing to me.

[Brubook 1,161]

Thanks.

I don't like it but at last we are on the same page. No more misunderstandings.

 

(it helped me take an important decision)

 

Edit: however, let me point out an oxymoron in what you said... if buyers CAN WIN EVERY BATTLE, then I can't win against them, no matter how skilled I am. So what you probably meant is "non-buyers can win when they save-up or play it smart, UNLESS they face a buyer. In that case, buyer wins"

Exacty !!!!!!

[Brubook 1,161]

Wait a minute. When I said "save-up" I meant "save-up some supplies", not "save-up some crystals".

You using them right away? What kind of a strategy is that?  :o

What he means is that for similar equipment and average teamwork, skills are nothing compared with drugs .... that is the point.

 

You changed subject often to avoid this and you underlined that considering "strategy" the "save-up of supplies", confirming once again that NO DRUGS = NO WIN

 

I know you are part of DEVs team, still you don't get the point that first absolute value for any product for public is SATISFACTION.

Being conscious that NO DRUG = NO WIN, a player can be a buyer or an unsatisfied player, that sooner or later will be not a player anymore!

The idea of the game (as any other product) is to get better and spread everywhere, not "resist" until the "critical mass" will have enough of being overwhelmed by few druggers dominating battles.

[Baby_Sam 614]

 

What he means is that for similar equipment and average teamwork, skills are nothing compared with drugs .... that is the point.

 

You changed subject often to avoid this and you underlined that considering "strategy" the "save-up of supplies", confirming once again that NO DRUGS = NO WIN

 

I know you are part of DEVs team, still you don't get the point that first absolute value for any product for public is SATISFACTION.

Being conscious that NO DRUG = NO WIN, a player can be a buyer or an unsatisfied player, that sooner or later will be not a player anymore!

The idea of the game (as any other product) is to get better and spread everywhere, not "resist" until the "critical mass" will have enough of being overwhelmed by few druggers dominating battles.

 

Brubook, you touch on a critical point here that I was thinking about this morning.

 

As Tanki Online is maturing up, players get to know its flaws and loopholes more and more, and more and more players take advantage of that and derail the purpose of everything. That makes it miserable for the mass. The dev team needs to look seriously at this and react promptly if we do not have any hope they would act proactively to it.

 

I realize that TO wants to sell drugs and PRO passes, but they do not have to be mean and miserable about it. There is no way everyone will be buying those, especially paying real money for it. They need to rebalance things to entice more people to buy and more people to play the game and like it, not ride the wave until there is no wave and there is no players to keep the game afloat.

[ArgentHellion 41]

As a relative newcomer to Tanki Online, I have to agree with most of the posts regarding this topic,

and yes I have actually taken the time to read most of them rather than just skipping to the end.

Since I live in Bosnia and cannot afford money to spend online, because my full-time job barely

covers my basic needs, I am a non-buyer player, and I can say that this game is brutally unbalanced

when it comes to using power-ups, or drugging, as you call it.

 

At first the game seemed to be good, but at this current rank of mine, I'm hitting a difficulty spike,

and not because I lack the skills but because I just don't have the stats. I'm constantly engaging

opponents who are constantly drugged and there is nothing I can do about it, and my daily supplies

aren't worth the payback so I barely use them. The only thing left for me to do is camp around the

powerup spawns and rack up as much as I can before trying to engage the enemy.

 

I don't know what the high-ranked games look like, but I honestly hope I will some day, in the meantime

I can only hope that  advanced game options exist that PREVENT the usage and spawning of powerups

during the battle. If there isn't such an option, there clearly has to be, because battles should be won

through skill and teamwork, not brute monetary force.

 

I played quite a lot of online games, I'm over 25, but I have to admit that I have NEVER come across

such overpowered Pay-To-Win content as Tanki Online offers. Something seriously needs to be done

about it, otherwise the non-buyer players will leave the game out of frustration. I came here to play

a game, find a team and have fun, not to be abused by somebody who has the money to buy an

overpowered Shaft and one-shot me every time I try to leave my spawn.

[Baby_Sam 614]

I don't know what the high-ranked games look like, ...

It gets only worse. I think at Colonel up, players figure out that their skills are worth zilch so they start drugging like an addict.

 

Fortunately or unfortunately, I haven't figured that out about myself yet. :P

[Maf 32,300]

 Perfect balance is not fun.

I think quite a few users are lying on the floor in shock after reading this  :P   I know it's true, but most players thought that perfect balance is exactly what you are trying to achieve.

[r_belege0 41]

This is what they ment for. Perfect balance is not fun.

You are correct but also wrong.

 Perfect balance is not fun. But totally unbalanced games aren t fun also.

So you can-

1. Develop the ability to create teams of players. For a social game, tanki has almost no team building options. Clans are for clan wars. Team battles should be for normal 

2. Create a server where you are forced to enter a random battle fit for your rank. No possibility to choose your battle or team. A forced balancing battle. That will be fun, don t you think? And very easy to do it. 

[Opex-Rah 5,375]

I think quite a few users are lying on the floor in shock after reading this  :P   I know it's true, but most players thought that perfect balance is exactly what you are trying to achieve.

There is misunderstanding between item stats balance and gameplay balance. 

 

Stats balance is a strong foundation. You need them balanced to make sure everything is working as intendent. But during gameplay you need to have options to unbalance the game to give player different gameplay scenarios. Otherwise the game will always be the same.

 

Stats are bad option to achieve this, because when one turret is always stronger then the other you will always give player the same scenario. Supply boxes and SCD garage supplies are good options, because they allow you to give player different scenarios due to different circumstances.

 

I am not saying everything is good with supplies. From the gameplay point of view I see why they should be in the game. But economy behind them was never truly revised. Supplies should've either be not that expensive or there should be ways to get more of them (by daily missions or something). But as I said before — current version most likely won't be changed.

[Baby_Sam 614]

There is misunderstanding between item stats balance and gameplay balance. 

 

Stats balance is a strong foundation. You need them balanced to make sure everything is working as intendent. But during gameplay you need to have options to unbalance the game to give player different gameplay scenarios. Otherwise the game will always be the same.

 

Stats are bad option to achieve this, because when one turret is always stronger then the other you will always give player the same scenario. Supply boxes and SCD garage supplies are good options, because they allow you to give player different scenarios due to different circumstances.

 

I am not saying everything is good with supplies. From the gameplay point of view I see why they should be in the game. But economy behind them was never truly revised. Supplies should've either be not that expensive or there should be ways to get more of them (by daily missions or something). But as I said before — current version most likely won't be changed.

I don't think you believe that PRO battles with no supplies are always the same. What brings the different scenarios is the random spawning and the human factor. Even when you have the same two soccer/football teams meet in the same tournament without either taking drugs, it is not the same scenario, and one team may win one match and lose the other unless there is total unbalance as in M0 versus M3+.

 

Anyway, I think you got the idea that the complaint is that drugs don't give an edge to the user, they give a huge edge that makes everything else useless.

[Maf 32,300]

I don't think you believe that PRO battles with no supplies are always the same. 

Trust me - they are. Only the most dedicated and enthusiastic players will play PRO battles all the time. While in normal drug wars you get flags being captured at about 1-10 every 5 minutes, a 1 hour long PRO battle with no supplies and drop boxes often ends up with a 0-0 score. If players wouldn't be able to capture a single flag after countless attacks on the enemy base, they would quickly lose interest towards the game. That's the main reason why no-supply battles are called PRO battles, because it takes great skill and strategy to outplay the other team when you don't have supplies at hand. Less experienced players in normal battles do need something to unbalance the game, otherwise matches will in fact get repetitive and boring.

[Baby_Sam 614]

Trust me - they are. Only the most dedicated and enthusiastic players will play PRO battles all the time. While in normal drug wars you get flags being captured at about 1-10 every 5 minutes, a 1 hour long PRO battle with no supplies and drop boxes often ends up with a 0-0 score. If players wouldn't be able to capture a single flag after countless attacks on the enemy base, they would quickly lose interest towards the game. That's the main reason why no-supply battles are called PRO battles, because it takes great skill and strategy to outplay the other team when you don't have supplies at hand. Less experienced players in normal battles do need something to unbalance the game, otherwise matches will in fact get repetitive and boring.

Trust me, I never got bored because the enemies didn't drug left and right.

[ArgentHellion 41]

Trust me, I never got bored because the enemies didn't drug left and right.

Definitely agree on this one.

 

When the enemy isn't drugged, the matches never get dull, because if you

can't confront them directly, you can always develop a convenient strategy

to flank them, and when that evantually fails, you develop another one.

Flanking a drugged player DOESN'T work, because two-thirds down the

Isida drain, he just pumps the repair and practically says "up yours with

your skill, I've got your skill right here... boom... go play with the other 

freebie peasants."

 

But probably the most annoying things are the drugged out sniper-a-thons,

and that's definitely the thing that's killing this game the most. Boosted Shaft

guarantees an instant kill on any hull, except if it's a drugged Mammoth maybe,

so it's practically an InstaGib match replica from Unreal Tournament, with drugged

players being the InstaGibbers, and everybody else just being cannon fodder... 

[r_priyangshu0 270]

Definitely agree on this one.

 

When the enemy isn't drugged, the matches never get dull, because if you

can't confront them directly, you can always develop a convenient strategy

to flank them, and when that evantually fails, you develop another one.

Flanking a drugged player DOESN'T work, because two-thirds down the

Isida drain, he just pumps the repair and practically says "up yours with

your skill, I've got your skill right here... boom... go play with the other 

freebie peasants."

 

But probably the most annoying things are the drugged out sniper-a-thons,

and that's definitely the thing that's killing this game the most. Boosted Shaft

guarantees an instant kill on any hull, except if it's a drugged Mammoth maybe,

so it's practically an InstaGib match replica from Unreal Tournament, with drugged

players being the InstaGibbers, and everybody else just being cannon fodder... 

Drugging snipers are mostly noobs IMO. They aren't even satisfied with the extreme power of a sniper. LOL, imagine if there were no sniping weapons in Tanki.

(Reference to camping shafts.)