Let's discuss increased HP for heavy and medium tanks

[nesti89 29]

It's a bit unfair... are the light tanks popular on high ranks? Im not sure...

 

Light tanks should be more faster or sth like that...

 

Heavy tanks with double amor are impossible to kill... Double amor for light tanks is nothing, they are on 1-2 hits with double damage...

 

Repair kit is also more stronger for medium/heavy tanks now - it should give like  max 150 hp for every tank...

[genak138 950]

 

Spurger

genak138

Papaya14

 

It is now clear to me that you didn't read the description of my experience in a game I've played, just a day before the introduction of this HP increase in medium and heavy hulls. Or if you read it you didn't believed in me.

 

I'm ranking Colonel now, so...

 

What kind of "more experience" do I need, to stop a VIKING + Freeze + DA, that arrive steals our flag, and somewhere in the middle also activate the Repair Kit and get away, WHEN all my team is firing upon him (some with DD) since before his arrival to our field, during his way to our flag, during his escape, until he is already far away (I know I was killed by him and after reborn, I was one of the last one of my team firing at him with DD).

 

What I'm reading here um rubbish and nonsense. We, wasp and Hornet users are complaining... of course we are! So what? Don't you (medium and heavy hull users) have enough armor to arrive, still the flag and get away?

 

My Thunder needs almost 3 seconds (2.44 sec) to reload. Time enough to be killed, most of the time by a SINGLE Railgun shot, or by a SINGLE Shaft shot, or by a Ricochet crossing in my way. So needing another shot in the 6 that I already need, to kill some medium tanks its not a big deal, instead of 15 seconds, all we need now is 18 seconds... Time that certainly you and your team mates will give me to allow to shot down your, well armored tank, team mate.

 

Sorry my English, it is not my native language.

 

 

Ah, yes. That is because of something called DRUGGING. When you have Fire/Freeze and DD, you are of course going to be unstoppable. Especially if you then use a Repair Kit. And anyways, the armor increase isn't that significant. With forester, my Viking could almost survive two Rail shots, but just almost. Now, with Forester (MU'ed to the top) I can barely survive two rail shots, but just barely. It's only a few HP extra.

 

[Strawwitz 86]

The light tanks are still the only tanks allowed in tournaments. Before now I thought all people who did use(Hornet and rail) did so because they prefered tournament play and merely practiced with that combo in regular play as that made sense.

 

Now I find out most of the hornet +rail users , didn't/don't have a clue that the Hornet/rail combo was really a/the tournament combo more than anything. 

 

This update did not affect tournament play at all, so why complain, go use your Hornet/rail where it was/is supposed to be used. 

 

The regular world of Tanki  :rolleyes: is a-lot bigger than the hornet/rail tournament combo, and to hornet/railers the rwoT :rolleyes:  should just be practice anyway.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Strawwitz

[Rohrmeister 1,535]

Are you Statiustics correct?

I doubt.. so maybe you can clarify:

- When you measure the popularity.. do you exlude XP, XP/BP battles? You would have to...

- When you measure the popularity.. do you maybe measure only users that spend more then 50% outside of XP/BP? Cause they are biased because they have so much experience with XP..

- When you found out that hornet is sooo pupular, did you search (ask users) for the reason? I bet you find more hornets and vikings in the game, then hunters. But wait.. isn't hunter more balanced?

so maybe parameters like

--- looks best (hornet and viking look much better then hunter, mammuth and dictator)

--- handles better

--- feels more vivid while driving

..are avery important thing to your user group.

 

 

Overall about your idea of balance:

- in a scenario where you have free choice of what to choose -> there balance is not about having equal amount of usage.

 

real word example for guys:

the Hornet-Girl and the Mammuth-Girl story

In our real world also most woman find a man... so it seems balanced.

But man know that a certain kind of woman is "preffered" (the hot ones ;-))

So if the womans amount would not be a defined set of available indiviudals.. but instead of that you could go to a "garage" and order a woman according your preferences (hot, nice, lovely, clever and spontanous and a little crazy).. what do you think,.. would the mammuth girls also be ordered? Balance by equal amount? Forget it...

 

In Tanki we can choose freely. So balance can not be measured in equal usage.

Doing so would neglect the facts like looks, trends, what-my-friend-uses, XP gamemode, ... and so on.

 

ps: if some nice girl asks, I can also provide an example for girls ordering man.. but I bet you girls our there have enough fantasy to make up your own examples using the above analogy ;)

 

Balance should be measured in the ability to compete on the battleground.

IF you want to have a similar amount of each hull on the battlefield.. then ask the users why they preffer / not preffer certain hulls instead of others. And then improove the drawbacks (please don't nerv the others.. better improve the drawbacks).

Edited March 5, 2015 by Rohrmeister

[pqlamzmalqp 119]

THIS NEW UPDATE AS SOMEWHAT SPOILED MY INTEREST IN TANKI....

THEY ARE BORING TO USE (MEDUIM AND HEAVY HULLS),so i use light tank for fun and kill heavy ones...but now heavy ones are more powered...they were already so strong and they increased their hp...must increase double hp for hornet... and slight improvements in guns must be done to provide fun in tanki online ....

- THIS IS MY SUGGESTION :) :) :):)

[r_Hudroy0 17]

I play this game so I can interact with my sons who loved this game. One of them uses the heavy hulls because that's his style. The younger one goes for speed. I also go for the speed and have been spending all my crystals and time trying to get the best weapon upgraded enough to be able to do some damage. Now that I'm almost up to M1 status on the damage end, you go and screw me over by making it even harder to kill the druggers? Shame on you. I know I will be bashed by younger kids with horrendous English skills that will want to shout me down. But as a parent, who was seriously pondering buying into this game (and by buying I mean seriously upping their online allowance so that they can attempt to compete at the same level and enjoy this game) I have had a change of heart. And where my heart goes, so will my time and money.

 

The game is not that fun anymore. We have tons of big hull guys with shafts just looming around, camping I believe you call it. They get their 1-2 guys who have been using the viking from the start and spending all of their crystals on that to go and get the flag while they sit back and snipe everyone. The games are more lopsided now than they ever were. I am now on the hunt for another game for my sons to play. I am looking for one that is not so damn annoying with all of the horns and times changes. I'm looking for something that won't change every freaking week (I'd like to use harsher language here for emphasis but I know there are kids here). What I'd really like to see with an update to "balance" the playing field is for an opportunity to sell back all the worthless hulls and guns that I've spent time and effort to upgrade. You've effectively said that you don't value my play by negating my time and making my tank worthless.

 

There will always be haters of change. You run a business and I know that money talks and customer service walks. You're not all that different from other games that offer free services but pander to the ones that pay to amp themselves up. Evony, Runescape, and now Tankionline? 

 

Haters, tell me who Tanki's competitors are and I will go there and see if they can do me and my sons one better. 

 

Finally, most computers have some sort of spellcheck function even in this forum that you can use. Please use the damn thing. You prove your ineptitude by your inability to communicate your thoughts and actions. 

Edited March 5, 2015 by r_Hudroy0

[Samurita 15]

I play this game so I can interact with my sons who loved this game. One of them uses the heavy hulls because that's his style. The younger one goes for speed. I also go for the speed and have been spending all my crystals and time trying to get the best weapon upgraded enough to be able to do some damage. Now that I'm almost up to M1 status on the damage end, you go and screw me over by making it even harder to kill the druggers? Shame on you. I know I will be bashed by younger kids with horrendous English skills that will want to shout me down. But as a parent, who was seriously pondering buying into this game (and by buying I mean seriously upping their online allowance so that they can attempt to compete at the same level and enjoy this game) I have had a change of heart. And where my heart goes, so will my time and money.

 

The game is not that fun anymore. We have tons of big hull guys with shafts just looming around, camping I believe you call it. They get their 1-2 guys who have been using the viking from the start and spending all of their crystals on that to go and get the flag while they sit back and snipe everyone. The games are more lopsided now than they ever were. I am now on the hunt for another game for my sons to play. I am looking for one that is not so damn annoying with all of the horns and times changes. I'm looking for something that won't change every freaking week (I'd like to use harsher language here for emphasis but I know there are kids here). What I'd really like to see with an update to "balance" the playing field is for an opportunity to sell back all the worthless hulls and guns that I've spent time and effort to upgrade. You've effectively said that you don't value my play by negating my time and making my tank worthless.

 

There will always be haters of change. You run a business and I know that money talks and customer service walks. You're not all that different from other games that offer free services but pander to the ones that pay to amp themselves up. Evony, Runescape, and now Tankionline? 

 

Haters, tell me who Tanki's competitors are and I will go there and see if they can do me and my sons one better. 

 

Finally, most computers have some sort of spellcheck function even in this forum that you can use. Please use the damn thing. You prove your ineptitude by your inability to communicate your thoughts and actions. 

Most civilised post I've seen in years, thank you for bringing back the memory of maturity to mind. But in all fairness, over popularity of one single hull does kinda screw the game over...

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

I play this game so I ca...

 

^^ There are only a few decent posts in this topic and this is one of them.

[AbsoluteZero 3,729]

The RU community are a lot more knowledgeable about this game than the EN one.

 

RU topic reputation currently stands at

 

While the EN stands at +40.

At least RU are not scared in saying what they think whereas many here like every update regardless of it's content.

[Rohrmeister 1,535]

The RU community are a lot more knowledgeable about this game than the EN one.

 

RU topic reputation currently stands at

 

While the EN stands at +40.

At least RU are not scared in saying what they think whereas many here like every update regardless of it's content.

I have the impression, that the amount of hornet/rail users is much higher in the russian community.

In the english community you find them as well.. but mainly in "higher" ranks.

 

So what these guys spotted was most likely that there is a serious change in gameplay now.

For a Thunder, Rico or Smokey user it is maybe just "some percent harder" to kill a heavy hull.. while for a railgunner each additional shot means 6..7 seconds time you need to survive. And if you think what happens if this target drugs double armour.. well.. no.

 

The thing that was pointed out here many times, is that HP are not "the whole world". Evern if a Dictator would have 2x the HP, I would still drive a hornet or wasp - just cause of the speed.. the agility.. the cool feeling.

 

I rather adapt my strategy and plaing style, then taking a slow hull.

 

Someone thinks the same?

[Batmode_ON 60]

I have the impression, that the amount of hornet/rail users is much higher in the russian community.

In the english community you find them as well.. but mainly in "higher" ranks.

 

So what these guys spotted was most likely that there is a serious change in gameplay now.

For a Thunder, Rico or Smokey user it is maybe just "some percent harder" to kill a heavy hull.. while for a railgunner each additional shot means 6..7 seconds time you need to survive. And if you think what happens if this target drugs double armour.. well.. no.

 

The thing that was pointed out here many times, is that HP are not "the whole world". Evern if a Dictator would have 2x the HP, I would still drive a hornet or wasp - just cause of the speed.. the agility.. the cool feeling.

 

I rather adapt my strategy and plaing style, then taking a slow hull.

 

Someone thinks the same?

Oh stop complaining, hornets and vikings were always popular, heavy hulls could be killed by them easily, my titan can now compete with mammoth m3 :D

[Rohrmeister 1,535]

Oh stop complaining

are you sure you understood the point of my post? Just asking.. :P

 

.hornets and vikings were always popular, heavy hulls could be killed by them easily, my titan can now compete with mammoth m3 :D

good on you.

 

You drive a titan.. this is much to slow for me. No matter how mayn HP is will get.

And this is what it all is about..

-> players choose tanks that fit to their preffered strategy/gameplay/map/gamemode.

-> HP are just such a minor thing in this decision..

-> but HP a major thing in game balance in terms of comparing the effectivity of weapon/Tank combinations on the battlefield

 

If I would be tanki

- I would care less for an equal distribution, as the distribution is defined by personal prefferences (tank has to fit preffered strategy and playing style).

- but I would focus more on balance in terms of equal effectivity of weapons/hulls (if _some_ combos simply bust next to _all_ other tank and give the ability to earn much more XP, crystals, kills and flags.. then we have spotted something overpowered).

 

And honestly the tanks in tanki are one of the things that was nice balanced. You had a variaty to choose from, each one with benefits and drawbacks.. each one unique.. and so something to choose for every kind of player. And they have been balanced towards weaponary as well (before hammer came.. other story)

[RustyNail 1,538]

And one last remark. Why should different hulls sell the same?

Balance is what makes every player of equal skill play their favorite hull and be able to meet every other hull in battle. It's not selling equally all the existing hulls.

The distribution of different hulls' share in sales is due to different tastes about speed and playstyle, it doesn't mean that the less selling hull is handicapped...

[racer22_online 206]

Sorry my posts seem to get longer and longer.

Most users do not seem to realise that Tanki has a Pro mode - this allows battle settings to create a more 'level' playing field (mostly no drugs) - just what I see many of us asking for

If Pro mode was free - then I think nearly 100% of battles would be Pro mode and this is what a few people in Tanki managment fear!

Hence, Tanki has made Pro Mode too expensive and only a small percentage of users buy it - mostly high up ranks.  At only 5000 crystals per month it's cheap for me - at my level I earn this every 5 hours play.

But because hardly anyone uses Pro mode at my level - I cannot find any Pro battles I want to join.  Tanki needs to get real and make Pro mode cheaper and then regulate the price each month so that approx 50% of battles are Pro mode at all levels.

At that point we all get to choose what we like best and Tanki don't have to keep guessing on preferred setups because they can see the stats from the pro mode users.

I.e. I still feel it's important to have the  standard 'arcade mode' which is great for 'variety' and I still get many very good battles out of it despite the Druggers and Mults.  ('Mults' is the short Russian word that has been adopted for tankers exhibiting 'delinquent' behaviour (pushing team mates off ledges, hiding the flag, infighting and generally messing about.)

As I get to higher ranks I find less Mults and lots of very skilled players and even 'kindness' on the battle field - helping friend and foe alike (mostly tanks stuck on side) - melts my heart :0)

(As Roald Dahl put it 'Kindness' is the greatest of human qualities.)

Also higher ranks are more likely to co-operate in team play (which is the holy grail of fun IMHO) - and this helps beat some of the Druggers and Mults.

However, you will note that most battles at all levels get one sided very easily - 1 or 2 players working together can completely turn a battle round and 'rout' the opposition and why we have now got this elaborate early game ending mechanism - which is too 'trigger happy' at present - but Tanki will fix it.

At present about 75% of crystals are given to the winning team - hence, most skilled payers will wait to join a winning team - and sadly this makes the imbalance worse!

2 things could be done about this:

1:  I would like to prevent the leading side from using any drugs - to help the losing side catch up and this is why Kill to Death ratio must never be counted in the 'stats' - the only thing that is important is 'points earned per hour'. 

2.  I now think that that crystals should be shared almost equally between winning and losing side (perhaps 55% to 45%) - so it does not matter if you fight on either side - I believe this will produce more even sides and better battles.  Of course we will still try to win for the 'satisfaction' - but 'winning' should not count in the stats - otherwise we will stay as we are and the best players will only join the winning side!  Try it, Tanki, for a week and you will see an improvement I'm sure of it - i.e. give equal crystal funds to both winning and losing side - or simply give 1 crystal for every point earned and then adjust the points earned to suit the balance of crystals in the game or similar - I'm sure Tanki can do it.

 

Right now if you want a good battle - I find it best to join the losing side and convert it into a winning side - even better when my son and I work together to do this.

There is currently no mechanism to try and balance out the sides - other than number of tanks per side and a 6 rank level range.  One day I would like to see 'tanker stats' used to help decide which side you must join and this should take account of trying to keep 'friends' on the same side.  This is a complex problem but I'm sure Tanki could work out something - if not ask the forum for suggestions.  But first we need to see the stats on each player - Tanki is still working on this.  I hope Tanki will let us comment on the new stats plans before release?

[Rohrmeister 1,535]

Sorry my posts seem to get longer and longer.

..

I share some of your opinions.. but you are in the wrong thread ;)

Here is the discussion about more HP for med + heavy hulls

[Daithi 96]

This is not a rebalance. Its a total witchhunt against XP! Which is now pretty obsolete, esp at short ranges.

Loading / firing takes way too long for defense (even with full m3+). Wide open maps few & far between.

 

CTF most popular by far i think, mostly captured by Hornet/Wasp. Now getting rid of med/heavy hull flag sitters (+ backup isiadas) even more difficult. This makes flag capture relatively high risk - low gain, why bother.

 

Hopefully TDM will become more popular again.

[lordmostafa 3,821]

Thanks. Now my Viking is a bit stronger :wub:

[racer22_online 206]

It's great to hear opinions from paying customers and fellow parents - obviously Tanki, like any business, has to care about where it gets it's money from - one day I hope we get advertising in the game (on those bill boards so Tanki gets loads of money and less pressure to take money from players!)

Please note I'm a free to play (FTP) player and will not buy crystals for my main account to prove to my wife that it can be done and to all those tankers who wonder if it's possible!

I limit my drug use to the ones provide by signing in each day - highly recommended!  (I note Tanki have recently stopped giving out heath packs! - bummer.)

However, I do buy crystals for my son to help him keep up with me (and because he likes to experiment.)  (I would like to 'buy' my own paint for my tank but that's another story in my previous posts.)

I now have 6 Tanki accounts because I found this the best way to keep each tank 'pure' for faster (FTP) progress.  That's how I find out what each tank / gun is like and what their weakness are.

I love the variety in Tanki and to my mind Tanki have done a better job with this multi-user game with real opponents than ANY other game - not an easy feat.  Plus I love the V-logs.

I'm looking forward to what Tanki call the 'unity platform' so we can get away from the bugs and weaknesses in Flashplayer (keyboard locks and fatal errors).

I do like the fact that Tanki care very much to keep the variety in the game and to try and regulate the balance as best they can - this is such a hard job to keep everyone happy because there are so many types of player.  Responding the Forum and watching the stats is the key to getting the balance right.  I do look forward to those stats being shared.

In this instance of heavy tanks not being popular enough, I believe Tanki are wrong to assume heavy tanks will become more popular by having more HP.  Hornet will always remain the most popular unless Tanki slow it down.  It is too close to Wasp in speed - also a Hornet goes to M2 much sooner than Wasp - why is this?  I believe this makes Wasp less popular - hence, you get more Hornets!

If you slow down Hornet then many will swap to Wasps - they will not go to heavier tanks.  'Speed' on most maps is much more powerful (and exciting) than HP (hiding behind a wall gives infinite HP!)

 

I can't speak Russian and I have no idea what the Russians say in their forums and how they compare to the EN servers or Brazil servers for that matter (which I have never seen).  I can only say what I see on the battlefield.

One side of me says that people are the same all over the world - a percentage are positive people and another set are negative people and everything in between and depending on the day!

I do recommend everyone try using the Russian servers sometimes - I seem to get a higher percentage of what I call good battles (closely fought).  Please note the 'score' often does not represent the quality of the battle taking place.

What I find on Russian servers is the Russians 'hang in' even when they're losing, while on the English servers a losing team quits very quickly!  I suspect caused by a typical bunch of English complainers and cynics!  I suspect they leave to go and find a winning side - because they prefer to get crystals.

I find that fighting on a Russian losing team can be more fun than on the winning team!  Sadly such behaviour is not rewarded in Tanki - and to keep up with the 'arms race' as a free to play player - I also have to jump ship from time to time and go and find a winning side!  See my previous post for solutions to this.  (By the way I never change sides once I begin a battle that would be dishonourable and I rarely see anyone doing it.)

[Homs 1,287]

:o

[MamasJohn 0]

My shaft m3 is nerfed now :( :(

Nurfed even more you mean, I hate the "come find me" laser.

[rampagerhino 67]

Gives me a reason to use mammoth again, although i had forgotten how slow it really is..  :(

[r_Hudroy0 17]

I have the impression, that the amount of hornet/rail users is much higher in the russian community.

In the english community you find them as well.. but mainly in "higher" ranks.

 

So what these guys spotted was most likely that there is a serious change in gameplay now.

For a Thunder, Rico or Smokey user it is maybe just "some percent harder" to kill a heavy hull.. while for a railgunner each additional shot means 6..7 seconds time you need to survive. And if you think what happens if this target drugs double armour.. well.. no.

 

The thing that was pointed out here many times, is that HP are not "the whole world". Evern if a Dictator would have 2x the HP, I would still drive a hornet or wasp - just cause of the speed.. the agility.. the cool feeling.

 

I rather adapt my strategy and plaing style, then taking a slow hull.

 

Someone thinks the same?

Amen to this sentiment. I would drive the quicker ones no matter how the deck is stacked against them. Why cry about "not many people using the bigger hulls"? So what? The speed is where it is at. 

[r_Hudroy0 17]

One of my sons, the younger, got his first taste of the new "upgrades" yesterday. When he first started playing this he loved the ability (especially because he's 10 and can't drive yet) of playing a driving game that isn't MarioKart. He loved this game and would spend all of his hard earned free time playing tanki. However, this changed yesterday. I don't know his rank level but it seems that the games he can play have become filled with people who just sit behind a wall and take pot shots at the ones that haven't been spending their entire fortune building up those  fat pig of hulls. He expressed his frustration and asked if I could take over and go and kill those lazy campers. 

 

I tried.

 

I honestly tried for about 30 minutes (in other words two complete matches).

 

I was thoroughly sick of some of those little foul mouthed kids and the vile taunts that they throw out (while not being starred) at others. My son is ten. He gets enough crap at school so I wouldn't think it would be too hard to clean this up here. The names used are even worse. For example one kid named Your_Moms_Vag, kept taunting him/me. I know this is off topic but I wanted to pull a Curt Shilling and find that low life punk in RL and make him eat his words.  (now I'll get back to topic).

 

I agree with those who have suggested that the Pro mode be made to reflect this desire for "balancing," which has done everything but balance this game. 

 

I'll go one step further and ask that a game be made and set aside  that requires the users to have specific hulls in order to enter those games. You want to camp out and shoot behind the walls and STILL play CTF? Go to that match. Not the one where I want to actually drive around, shoot, and actually use some strategy to win or even have a good battle. I often make the comment in chat that I hate the snipers. These are always the ones who sit back and kill you with one shot and then force you to play hide and seek to get rid of them. But what fun it is (read in a serious sarcastic tone) to find them and realize that you will die twice in the attempt to kill them even once. Why? Because Tanki favors the lazy and worries that a specific hull (still sarcastic here) might feel left out if it is not forced upon its users. If you're going to do this Tanki, why not offer the ones with weaker hulls a box that give them a nuke and can then "rebalance" the issue with these now overpowering hulls? 

 

Go back to the drawing board please and rethink this action. Or are you all afraid of this since as Developers and Moderators you all drive the Heavy hulls?

[Batmode_ON 60]

are you sure you understood the point of my post? Just asking.. :P

 

good on you.

 

You drive a titan.. this is much to slow for me. No matter how mayn HP is will get.

And this is what it all is about..

-> players choose tanks that fit to their preffered strategy/gameplay/map/gamemode.

-> HP are just such a minor thing in this decision..

-> but HP a major thing in game balance in terms of comparing the effectivity of weapon/Tank combinations on the battlefield

 

If I would be tanki

- I would care less for an equal distribution, as the distribution is defined by personal prefferences (tank has to fit preffered strategy and playing style).

- but I would focus more on balance in terms of equal effectivity of weapons/hulls (if _some_ combos simply bust next to _all_ other tank and give the ability to earn much more XP, crystals, kills and flags.. then we have spotted something overpowered).

 

And honestly the tanks in tanki are one of the things that was nice balanced. You had a variaty to choose from, each one with benefits and drawbacks.. each one unique.. and so something to choose for every kind of player. And they have been balanced towards weaponary as well (before hammer came.. other story)

No i rarely use titan, im mainly a hunter dictator user

[uar-05 2]

-_-

This update is useless for me because I'm q hornet user :) from now I can't kill mammoths :P